Convince Me To Buy A T410

I need a laptop. Web surfing, listening to music, watching movies around once a week and word processing. My current laptop is a standard Compaq nc6320 and it does all of this fine.

I'm looking to future proof as much as I can, mostly because I can't stand being on something too outdated like the specs on this nc6320 have become.

But I didn't create this topic to ask for help finding a laptop, because I've been convinced that the T410 is the best for what I need. Powerful, durable, and just enough graphic power to let you play the occasional game, but not enough to make you miss too much work.

I believe I have a case of pre-buyers remorse. This is a big price tag. I don't want to regret buying it later down the road.

Basically I started with a budget of $800. $900. $1000. $1050. And now ~$1100-$1200. I want to spend the least amount of money possible but enough to not miss any upgrades that are cheaper now than they would be in the future, or any upgrades that can't be performed in the future.

Specs:

• Intel Core i5-540M Processor (2.53GHz, 3MB L3, 1066MHz)
• 14.1" WXGA+ (1440 x 900) 16:10 aspect with LED Backlight and WWAN
• NVIDIA NVS3100M graphics with 256MB DDR3 Memory
• 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
• 500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
• 9 cell 2.8Ah Li-Ion Battery - Dual Mode
• Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN

Price: $1,1099 CAD AFTER TAXES ($1,152 USD)

Main hesitation: price. If it were $100 cheaper I could order it later this week. That last $100 is teetering on my breaking point.

Right now I'm in a frozen state as I have only this nc6320 that I have been using for the sole purpose of frantically searching for new coupon codes, T410 reviews, and re-configuring the T410. It's 2 A.M. 'nuff said.

Now, if you would ever be so kind to let me know if this is a good investment, why, and how long it will last it would be great.

 

Buy it with the least amount of RAM you can get, then upgrade later. You could just get 1 dimm of 2GB. "Web surfing, listening to music, watching movies around once a week and word processing" does not require 4GB of RAM.

 

A Core Duo or Core 2 Duo still offers very good upgrades. Given the usage, other than the gaming, the T410 won't offer a big leap in performance.

 

Why buy a 500GB 7200RPM hard drive now? Disk is constantly getting cheaper, and disk upgrade on a ThinkPad is painless. Your usage does not seem to require that kind of speed or capacity. Get a smaller 5400RPM drive and upgrade in a few years.

 

Personally i wouldn't go for the nvidia GPU on the T410, and instead of getting the 4 gig ram, just get the 2 gig ram (you can buy a 4 gig ram module from newegg for around 140 dollars), smaller hdd at slower speed.

You should get your price below 1000 dollars. The Nvidia GPU on the T410 is anemic at best considering that the T500's ATI 3650 was more powerful.

If you need the GPU grunt then you should consider the DIY Vidock systems, which is cheap and powerful. However, it is not portable.

Also, games nowadays are more GPU intensive. If you can get a powerful desktop graphics card using the DIY vidock, your laptop will leave the W510 dead when playing games.

 

I had 4GB of RAM on my previous desktop and loved it just because of the headroom. I did go into ~3GB usage on busy days with a ton of things open. Also, it is cheaper to get the RAM through Lenovo now then upgrade later. At least for the Canada site. My only regret is not being able to purchase a 4x1GB stick to upgrade later.

I agree, but that's where the future value comes in. Also a big reason for this is the build quality.

I need capacity for all my files. I've got ~300GB of data backed up on a hard drive waiting for my next laptop purchase. I chose 7200RPM as this is replacing my desktop, and having a hard drive as a bottle neck is a bother to me.

The GPU is one of those things that I only added because the cost was already at $1100. For $100 more I could get the faster version of the Core i5 and the GPU. I really don't game. I play old games occasionally, but I don't play anything intensive. It was just one of those 'might as well' upgrades.

RAM - Cheaper to get the 4GB for ~$70 through Lenovo then third party.

Getting it below $1,000 would be perfect. But with the wants I have for ther T410 it doesn't look possible

 

@lead_org: I wouldn't say the NVS 3100M in the T410 is too anemic given that the T410 is a 14" laptop not targeted towards gaming in the first place. It's definitely a huge improvement over the T400's Radeon 3470 (a direct comparison, unlike that with the 3650).

That said, if you're not going to play modern games, there's no reason not to just stick with the integrated graphics.

But, taking another step back, it seems that hard drive space is the only area where your current laptop doesn't meet your needs. Why not just buy one of the new Seagate 500GB hybrid drives (it'll be both a speed and capacity upgrade) and install it in your current laptop?

 

This Hybrid Drive (I read the review and it looks like a very interesting option) is only available in the 2.5" version right? Which also means that I possibly could NOT use it in my R400, which I think uses a 3.5" drive. Am I correct?

Thanks.

 

This is largely futile. The technology industry is perfection in planned obsolescence—as something new comes out every six months or so.

 

Sony was the first one to use hybrid drive type of technology, it was pretty good other than the myriad of bloatware that comes with most of the Sony laptops.

No laptop nowadays use a desktop 3.5 inch hdd. The only hdd used in thinkpads are 2.5 inch and 1.8 inch (X30x and T4x0s) machines. Your laptop use a 2.5 inch hdd with 9.5 mm thickness (there is also the 12.7 mm one too).

 

No, the vast majority of laptops use a standardized 2.5" hard drive. The thicknesses vary, but the R-series can only fit the standard-height 9.5mm hard drives, I believe (certain large laptops can fit taller, often higher capacity drives). As a side note, what probably caused you confusion is that the R-series' UltraBay is 12.7mm in height.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I think I got mixed up with the DVD Drive Bay or something. So, this means that if I wanted to I could install this hybrid drive in my R400. Hmmm...something to consider perhaps. I wonder what the failure rates are of these drives? Might be a good way to extend the life, performance and utility of a good and solid machine.

 

Well, although I have access to it and use it daily it isn't my own, it's my brothers. I want something of my own that will last for when I go off to college next year.

The debating on the graphics comes from wanting the most value, having the upgraded i5 and the dedicated graphics for $100 seemed just that, however if the integrated performance isn't bad then I'll settle for it and save $100. I did want to attempt a Hackintosh as well, but for $100 it isn't worth it.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah...exactly, that is what I got confused with.

Now I am really thinking about this. Especially because I have a friend coming in to visit me and she can get it for me. I am guessing the installation is the standard way. Or, maybe I can get one of my contacts in the IBM Service centers to do it for me privately. In this connection, if I make an image of the existing HDD, I can transfer that over to the new HDD right and that would put me right back where I was? Or, would I have to fresh-install the OS and do everything all over again - though (aside from the time), that would also not be a problem.

 

If you have the Seagate or the WD hdd, these manufacturers offer a free cut down version of the Acronist Trueimage, use that to reimage this hdd into the new hdd.

AndyP (moderator) on the Lenovo.com forum has a nice blog write up of all the procedures, it shouldn't be much of trouble for you to follow through the instruction that he provided.

I will have a look at the tute, and PM or post it here when i find it.

Hybrid drive has been around for a few years now, and there is nothing that high tech about it. If you really want true performance, this is how you should go about it.

Get the 80 gig Intel's SSD (you can find them on special places like Newegg, so you have to use some family and friend connection), and then get an ultrabay caddy, move the new platter hdd into the caddy. Install the SSD in the main hdd bay, and move the OS and other frequently accessed app into the SSD. Keep the infrequently used files, movies, musics, pictures, etc into the platter hdd.

This is the most cost effective way of upgrading your laptop for full speed. But you will lose the optical drive usage, but i think you can get an external adapter (compatible, Lenovo doesn't make it) and use it through USB.

Now you are set for at least a few years.

 

Thanks. I really appreciate it. Yes, we did discuss the SSD (a specific Intel model) + HDD option in one of the earlier threads. And, that remains an option. When I think about it, I have used the DVD-writer only once in my ownership of the laptop. So, I am not sure how much more frequently I will end up using it. One question about this SSD + HDD option - though, I guess, it is not really all that critical - does the power consumption go up, particularly, when on battery mode? And, secondly, one (probably stupid) question: Is there anything like a 'mobile' DVD drive - something that is very lightweight and which can go very easily in my Accessories Bag with my usb drives, mouse, mobile HDD, phone etc.? The last time I owned an external DVD drive was long time back (I think it was a Compaq or one which came with a Compaq laptop). It was one which could be slotted into the drive bay and ejected out if I remember correctly. But it was quite a problem to carry it around. Would like to avoid that, if possible.

So, just to see if I understand this correctly:

On the SSD:

Load the OS
Load all Programs (everything that appears on C: Programs)

(All OS and program updates will go on this drive)

On the HDD

Load all other documents, files, etc. I am assuming that this drive can be partitioned into various sections - like one for work-related files, one for personal files, one for media-related files etc.

Question: If this is the case, then won't there be a time when the SDD becomes really full? I mean with all the updates and other additional programs that I may install over time? Though, 80GB is actually quite a lot.

 

Hmm. From your original post, I thought you wanted our advice in helping you cut down your build so that you can have a good machine for less than $1,000 (because you have a psychological barrier and stuff). Then you overruled all our suggestions because then the build will not be quite as nice as you would like it to be. At this point, I am not sure how we can help you. Do you expect us to:

1. Help you cut down the build to below $1000? (Does not look like it)
2. Talk you out of your psychological barrier on price? (Does not look like it)
3. Give you $100 so that you can have your dream machine within your budget? (Not gonna happen)
4. Something else? (Then what?)

 

on the SSD only install the program that requires fast access speed of the hdd. The battery life will decrease given that you run the hdd from the ultrabay drive, by how much would depend on how often you access it, and whether you have any power saving mode set for it (where it shuts down or hibernate after xxx minutes of idle).

80 gigs is quite a lot of space, especially if you don't do Rescue and Recovery backup on it or have a recovery partition on it. Your BT (assume you use it) would be on the platter hdd.

Yes, there are extremely portable drives on the market that is only slightly thicker than your ultrabay optical drive that runs off usb2.0 only, with no need for additional power cable.

There is usb 2.0 caddy that can fit the removable optical drives, so you MAY be lucky if it works, it costs around 20 dollars on ebay.

Lenovo also makes a usb 2.0 portable optical drive, which costs a bit more than a non-Lenovo branded product.

If you don't use optical drive that much, then don't worry too much about it. You can always take out the ultrabay hdd (provided that there is no OS required programs on it) and slot in the ultrabay optical drive when you use it once in a blue moon.

 

You make good points

Option 3 would be nice

I think it's got to be option 1 though. I'm going to have to cut the things I can upgrade later on in order to get it some time soon. It's not the option I want to choose, but it looks like the best option.

My questions are;

1. What is possible to upgrade later? Hard drive and RAM. Is it possible to add the Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 card later? Or is it wise to have Lenovo add it? Is this it here?

2. What is worth getting now? i.e. 9 cell battery. $43 upgrade but ~$130 to buy later on, is probably worth getting now. Are there any other noticeable price differences/smart to buy now components?

3. The difference between integrated graphics paired with the i5-520M and the dedicated graphics paired with the i5-540M is $87. In terms of price/performance, is it worth it?

4. I just realized all this time I had been thinking the 4GB RAM through Lenovo was cheaper than upgrading later because I was pricing the cost of 2 2GB sticks in addition to the 2GB included on the base model So it is cheaper to upgrade outside of Lenovo. But, is mix and match RAM advisable? Any performance decrease? I assume the speeds still have to be the same? Do they have to be the same size?

That's all the questions I have now, I'm sure I'll think of more!

 

1. HDD and Ram. The wireless card by itself maybe quite expensive and sometimes hard to obtain for the top of the line model (you will have use the Lenovo one, otherwise bios hacking would be necessary), the main advantage of the 6300 is 450 mbps speed, while the 6200 is the 300 mbps. Also, the 6300 has better signal and throughput under certain circumstances.

2. If you have the integrated GPU, the battery life on the 6 cells do get extended, so you may not need the 9 cells.

3. the discrete GPU is about twice as fast as the integrated unit.

But still very slow. Get the DIY vidock if you need more performance down the line.

4. No it doesn't matter if you run the two different modules, even Lenovo sells laptops with ram modules from the different manufacturers.

 

Alright, with the stock 1 stick of 2GB DDR3 RAM and 250GB 5400RPM HDD it brings the price down to $989 shipped. Much better on my mind.

I decided to go with the integrated graphics as the dedicated seems to have more cons than pros, IMO. Less battery, more heat, more power usage, more money, all for slightly less than double the performance of integrated.

My plan down the road is to sell the 250GB 5400RPM drive and use the money towards buying a 500GB 7200RPM drive. I also plan to try and catch a stick of 4GB RAM on sale to bring the RAM up to 6GB, though if I see a 2GB stick first I will likely get it.

In the end I'll have the same specs, but potentially $50 cheaper and I'll have the laptop in my hand faster

One more quick question, is it possible to replace the screen with a third party one? I'm not planning on doing it any time soon, and I am accustom to the matte, not very bright screens, but if I wanted to add a brighter screen is it possible?

 

that depends on what screen you want. In terms of matte screen of 16:10 type, there is not too many choices. The one you ordered should be bright enough, there is probably not too many LCD that is going to be much brighter than this.

 

Perfect, now I just need to pull the trigger. I've read speculation on a potential sale on July 4th, but I'm not so sure it will effect me as that is an American holiday. I hope to order later this week.

 

i assume you are going to order the laptop with a 64 bit OS right?

 

Correct. I may have a new topic up once I receive it as I will likely be formatting the drive and installing my own copy of Win 7 Ultimate x64 out of personal preference, but may be curious about which Lenovo softwares are worth keeping.

 

I agree. The Intel HD uses the new GMA 5700MHD and is about twice as good as the "old" 4500MHD. It does it all for me but then I'm not much of a gamer. It'll play all video nice and smooth.

You won't be disappointed by the T410. I've had mine for about a week now and have had zero problems and have zero complaints. I really love it. Best laptop I've ever had and I've had 20 or so.

I did what you are planning: installed my own copy of Win7 Ultimate x64. You'll probably want to install most of the software it came with (it's located in the SWTOOLS folder in the root of the C: drive) because some of that software is needed to activate hardware functionality like on-screen display, function keys, etc. I installed all of it except the Norton Internet Security (slows the machine down too much). I use Linux for web surfing so I don't need an AV program dragging my Windows performance down. ThinkPads are great for Linux, it all works, right "out of the box". I'm dual-booting Win7 Ult-x64 and Ubuntu 10.04 x64. No issues, so far, except I need to figure out how to configure battery management in Linux.

 

I appreciate the reassurance, seriously, I am prone to buyers remorse

I've got a few updates; I bought a 2GB stick of Crucial RAM as well as a Hitachi 500GB 7200.10 Notebook HDD from a third party and saved ~$30. It should be here tomorrow. I just ordered my T410 tonight. The only difference between the config I posted and the one I ordered is that I added the camera. I figured why not.

Look forward to receiving my first laptop, praying nothing is wrong with it

 

ThinkPads are notoriously fussy about aftermarket parts. If it's not a "ThinkPad Branded Part" it will most likely give you a boot error and the only way to force it is a BIOS hack.

 

Most of the business laptops are like that, it increases the security of laptop. (Also, it allows the laptop companies to make more money from aftermarket parts, etc).

 

True, but I don't like having my choices limited like this. It is the only thing about ThinkPads that bothers me. Otherwise, they're terrific machines.

 

I'm not too worried about the third party parts not working. I posted a topic about the RAM and found a user here had almost the identical model, just a bigger stick, and said it worked fine.

 

You just have live with it, since this is how it has been for a long time.

 

Yes, I knew that going in. I had a couple of the T4x models, back a few years ago and I remember being frustrated due to the lack of hard drive upgrades that were available and I couldn't use a 3rd party HDD. Actually, there were a couple of upgrades available from IBM/Lenovo, but they were ridiculously expensive. That turned me away from ThinkPads for a few years but since owning just about every other brand, I'm "back in the fold" with ThinkPads.

 

only the T43 would chuck the error message if you don't use the specific hdd from IBM, but other T4x laptops did not have this problem,they were compatible with all pata hdd of the correct size available in the market.

Also, if you don't mind pressing the error message at the T43's Bootup, you could still allow the laptop to function normally with aftermarket hdd.

 

Yes, I remember that with the T43. Odd that they put a pata hard drive in that model even though it had a sata controller (they used a sata to pata bridge, why they did that I'll never know. I can only assume they had a plethora of pata hard drives to get rid of).

 

the pata hdd they used was actually different to the previous models that they used. I guess, back then it was easier to get the pata hdd than the sata hdd.

 

The HDD and the RAM won't be a problem. Heck I tossed a 500GB 7200RPM FDE HDD in there. Lenovo doesn't even sell it that big. Also you should be ok with RAM, but I strongly recommend you buy RAM that identically spec'ed as the existing RAM.

Other than device drivers, I installed the power manager, hot keys and access connections. I ditched the Toolbox after I realized it was just a big guise to get me to buy more of their stuff.