Choosing the right ThinkPad for my needs.

My prior experience with thinkpads have been with the laptops issued to my father. He had an R51, a T43 and an X61. I love thinkpads, from the no frills looks, to the durability, and unique features like the keyboard/trackpoint, thinklight, and others. When it came time for me to look for a notebook, I tried to remain objective and look at all the competing lines. I looked at a Latitudes, EliteBooks and the ThinkPads, but I kept on going back to the thinkpads because I just love the design and reliability and value. My decision is now a hard one between the X201, and the T410.

My situation is this. My desktop, which I built, is now 6 years old, and slowly dying (south bridge fan, main fan, PSU, video card). It's loud, heats up my room, and for the performance I get it's just not worth putting up with it anymore. Most any laptop I buy today will outperform it (2Ghz Athlon 64 windsor core, 1GB DDR400, 7800GT, 2x WD 250GB and 1 75GB Raptor) except for the graphics (because I plan on buying integrated). I used to game a lot in high school when I built this computer, but quite frankly I just don't game anymore. I don't have the time or the interest. FPS games have gone the way of tickets and CP's, and only 1 out of 50 RTS games of today please me. The most gaming I do is Halo:CE, Sins of a Solar Empire, SC, and I intend to play SC2. However gaming isn't an issue, my brother has a powerful desktop if I ever do want to game. Now I just want something I can do my work and fun on which consists mostly of: Word, Powerpoint, lots of Skype, lots of gigantic Excel workbooks (accounting), Peachtree, Quickbooks, dBase, downloading torrents and watching movies/tv shows etc etc. Occasional Photoshop, I do multi task a lot, usually have skype, 20-40 firefox tabs, spiderplayer and Office open.

Since this is going to be my MAIN and ONLY computer now, I want one that will fit my needs best for the next 4-5 years.

I wanted something in the 12-14" range, with decent battery life (I am a student), good portability but decent size as well. I looked at the T410 and the X201 and I liked certain things about each:

T410:
I like the increased screen size and resolution. I would like to not have to dock or buy a monitor, because I want as clean of an all in one solution as possible on my desk. I'll probably buy a 22" monitor but I don't want to HAVE to use it (which I'm afraid I'll be doing a lot with the X201). I rarely use my laptop at a desk when at home. It'll spend most of it's time on the bed, couch, or kitchen table. At most I would like to have a monitor and nice 2.1 speakers on my desk, and maybe my current razer mouse, but that's it.

I like that it has displayport and eSATA. Although VGA works for me now because my HDTV has a VGA input, it would be nice to have displayport for the monitor and future connectivity, especially considering how long I'll be keeping this laptop. Is it a must have? No, but it's a nice updated feature I would like. The eSATA is great to to transfer files directly to my NAS and external HDD's that I back up to, but again, it's not necessary, just a nice up to date feature.

I like/dislike the new keyboard. I appreciate the larger escape and delete keys, and I like the reduced spacing between the keys. However I prefer the x201 trackpoint click button style, and for some reason the larger spacing between the keys of the x201 is nostalgic and has more of a classic thinkpad appearance to me, so it's a toss up.

I do like the updated VOIP features. The dedicated mic mute button is great, especially considering that I use skype ALOT. I also like the dual array noise canceling mic which I believe the x201 does not have. I think they both have the 2mp low light webcam though?

I like that the Touchpad is larger, with dedicated horizontal and vertical scroll areas, and that its textured. That trackpad on the x201 is a joke.

Since I download constantly the ability to swap out the optical with a second HDD (750GB 5400rpm) and use a SSD for the primary is a great feature. On the X201 I wont have that option and further more I'll have to clutter my desk with an external burner and HDD for inbetween storage (when I move things from my computer, organize them and put them on the NAS).

I also have long/big hands and I think I'll appreciate the longer palmrest to rest my wrists on as I type in lethargic awkward positions in bed and on the couch. With the x201 I imagine my hands and palms will be hanging off the edge.

What I DISLIKE about the T410 is the combo mic/headphone jack... keep them separate. And also I dislike that even with the same hardware specs, it seems to draw anywhere from 1-2 watts more than the x201.

As for the x201, like I said I like the older looking keyboard, I LOVE the extended battery life, and I can't seem to understand why a T410 with a 9 cell has a significantly shorter battery life than a x201 with a 9 cell! I love the tiny form factor, especially for when I'm lounging around or at school. I also like the indicator lights, I don't know why those were taken off, I guess I like the classic appearance of them and the fact that they actually ARE informative. Also I'm more comfortable with the less durable inside but more durable casing construction of the x201 as opposed to the roll cage inside but plastic outside construction of the T410.

Which one has better resale?

Seeing as how they'll both be equipped with the i5-520M, which one will have the better cooling capacity and stay cooler in my lap and on my bed?

Which one is more sturdy? I would imagine the X201 since it's smaller and lighter, but from what I've read it seems the larger T series is actually more sturdy.

I'm torn between these two. Both of these will destroy my desktop performance wise. I would jump on the x201, but the T410 has those newer features and larger screen, but can I get all day computing out of it and is it cumbersome to carry? Is 8 hours from a 9 cell, with integrated graphics possible? Does the pound and a half difference and increased footprint hurt daily portability (it will be carried daily to work. I probably wont use it at work, but I go to class right after work and it'll be used there. I don't do much walking on campus, most of its transportation would be in a car and a short trip from parking garage to class)?

I would prefer to not have to carry that gigantic slice/wedge around with me. I can get them similarly spec-ed and priced within 7 dollars of each other so it really is a features based decision. If I had a desktop as well, the x201 would be my choice, but since this is going to be my main computer, maybe I should opt for the slightly more feature-full and bigger screen T410. I wish they had a X210 that brought the new features to the X form factor. I just need some recommendations and experiences with people who own these laptops or have had to make this decision as well. The x201 would be limiting in that I wouldn't have the second HDD and would have to swap data between it and my NAS often. But the battery life on that is just amazing. I have a feeling that the sensible option would be to get the T410, since it has more features and seems more like an all around laptop, somewhere inbetween portability and power, where as the X201 is for ultraportability. I don't fly often. Hell I don't even leave the city often. But I just LOVE the looks and compactness of the x201.

I do apologize for the LENGTHY first post, but any answers to my questions or personal experiences or opinions are GREATLY appreciated from a soon to be ThinkPad owner.

EDIT: On a side note, I like how they maintained the striping on the click buttons, and the blue enter key, but why don't they bring back the two tone keyboards, where the Fn keys/everything above the number row and the Forward/Back keys are grey? I love that.

 

You ask for absolutes, where none exist. Which is more sturdy? They're probably pretty close. Which one will will have better resale value? Who knows what the notebook market going to in three to four years down the road when you're going to sell it. If you told someone four years ago you could buy a T series ThinkPad for $600, which happens fairly often now, they'd would have told you you're crazy. You should probably look at your needs, decide which best meets them, go for it and don't look back. You can really do paralysis by analysis. There's really no perfect notebook. At some point down the road you'll probably wish you got the other. Which ever way you do go, it'll probably serve you well. In my opinion whether it works out or not is probably more related to dumb luck than anything else. Good luck and welcome to NBR. Feel free to hang out and contribute where you can.

 

I say go with the T410. I see no reason why you need an ultra-compact, and I think the screen resolution is a big thing to give up if you don't have to.

 

@Fraud it is really hard to answer your questions or recommend what you need, since you are going in a loop with your logic. Also, you are trying to persuade and dissuade yourself at the same time.

Basically what you need is an updated X30x laptop (which don't exist).

You want a laptop with the lot, but obviously non exists within the thinkpad that has everything that you wanted. So you have come to a compromise.

X201 small and light, but also has lots of port feature missing.

T410 is bigger and more fully featured, but there are features that you want which is also missing.

But from what you are saying, it seems that the T410 ticks more boxes for you.

So this is what i suggest you do, construct a list of everything that you look for in the laptops, then see which laptop ticks more of the boxes. Then you buy the laptop that has the highest score, i call it laptop satisfaction matrix.

 

How about T410s?

 

@ZaZ: Thanks for the reply. Thanks for the reply. Paralysis by Analysis is definitely my problem here.

@ marlin: I tend to agree, the increased resolution is a big sacrifice, especially if I don't want to have to connect it to a monitor often (only when necessary).

@lead: I know I know. I'm stuck in a horrendous feedback loop with my logic. An up to date X301 would be ideal, but alas from what I understand they're killing off that model eventually. Shame.

@real: I looked at the T410s, but the increase in price is hard to justify, especially when it gets worse battery life than either model, even with the ultrabay battery. I'm willing to take a hit on battery life with the T410 compared to the X201, but only to a point, and the T410s is beyond that point.

I suppose I should condense my post, and make my questions more specific and precise to help arrive at a decision. The way I see it, the the X201 has everything I need at a minimum, with great battery life. The T410 has everything I need, plus a lot of things I would like to have in a laptop I intend to keep for 4-5 years, for a similar price, at the expense of size and battery life. So my questions (that will help me decide) are these:

1) NBR got around 10 watts avg for the T410 and 8 watts avg for the X201. This places batt. life around 9 hours for the T410 and 11 hours for the X201. Those are probably a little high because I think people average more than those watts in general usage. My question is what is the real world battery life of a T410 with a 9 cell with integrated graphics? With wifi on most of the time, bluetooth off, optical drive disabled and a HDD in its place, etc etc. I've seen some reports that go as low as 5 hours for that config, and some which go as high as 8. Big difference that affects my decision.

2) Size: I doubt the weight difference will really bother me. Like I said I am a student, but most of my traveling with this laptop will be from work->car, car->class, etc etc. I won't really be doing much walking across campus or through airports with it. However what about the footprint? Does the larger form factor of the T410 make it cumbersome to carry? User reviews have said that although it has a bulky appearance, when handling it it's actually pretty svelte. It will be carried in a Booq Mamba backpack.

3) What ARE the actual VOIP features? Aside from the dual array mic and nice webcam. What does that new Fn+F6 do? What has been optimized for VOIP usage?

4) Cooling Capacity: Which notebook, under equal usage scenarios, would remain cooler, longer. This is important to me because it will be used in my lap alot, and I don't want to roast my thighs.

5) Build quality: I always assumed that larger dimensions made a laptop susceptible to increased flex. Are they really equal in terms of solid feel, flex, and durability/materials?

Hopefully those questions are more easily digested I do appreciate all the responses!

 

I'll answer the ones I can answer:
Size - T410 is about the same width and smaller height than my 15" T60, and I didn't find my T60 cumbersome in college/law school

Build quality - main-line thinkpads (i.e. the basics, the non-cheap ones, T, X, prob W but I'm just guessing) don't flex. Picking up one of these feels totally different than picking up an HP or Toshiba.

 

I am a big fan of the x200 series. However, in your particular case the T410 seems like a better fit.

 

F6 apparently shows a window that has a picture of the webcam video and effectively has shortcuts to the control panel applets for each device (audio/video).

I can safely say I'd never even pressed it before you mentioned it. and probably never will again.

The Audio VOIP features appear to work well. The default audio settings are rubbish, but providing the Lenovo drivers are loaded (not the Windows Update ones), then after you go into the SmartAudio control panel and set the VOIP audio settings, then I'm told it sounds very good. (Before enabling it, I'm told it's rubbish). I skype daily without a headset.

Note: I struggle to get more than 5 hours on my 9 cell T410. Powered = 20-35W. Battery = 12-20W. Idling. I wonder if some processors that come off the line are more efficient than others... leakage and all that. They do qualify them based on tests after all. Or, it could just be that this is a loaded PC.

I do like my T410. Great performance and features. I'd like to play with an X201 sometime as a comparison.

 

Well, you can think of it this way - you can make a small laptop larger (by using a dock and/or adding external monitor, external keyboard/mouse, etc), but you can't make a large laptop any smaller.

If you don't have the graphical processing needs that the T410 can clearly provide over the X201, I'd say the X201 may be a better choice for you if you are concerned about portability.

 

the T410 don't flex, and from a pure theoretical point of view it would also be cooler, due to the fact that the heatsink/fan on it is bigger, and there is larger surface area to dissipate the heat.

 

Since you wont be doing much carrying, I think the T410 is worth the size increase. I'm sure skype will work excellent on either webcam. Both have excellent build quality. I would also presume the T410 to have better cooling capacity, but I haven't read many complaints of X201 heat issues.

I think the deciding factor for you here should be the battery life. Like you said, portability isn't a great issue, and the T410 has features you would like, but don't need. If you need more than 5 or 6 hours of batter time, I would go for the X201. If not, go for the T410. I believe around the 6 hr. mark is a good estimate of average battery time from a T410 w/ integrated graphics and a 9 cell being used normally with wifi and screen brightness, etc.

 

What kind of stores would carry thinkpads that I could go see and handle in person? I'm in Houston, so hopefully some place carries thinkpads and has display models. It doesn't have to be the exact configuration. I was just wanting to get a feel for the size/weight, how it feels in my hands.

 

It's been a while since I been to Houston, but not many retail stores carry ThinkPads. Sometimes college/university bookstores have them. I'd just head to Best Buy or the like. A similar notebook there should give you a good approximation.

 

this is the problem with the business class laptops, they are mostly built to order, unlike the consumer laptops which are all premade.....

 

My best guess would be the Rice University bookstore. Give them a call and see if they have them in stock. Failing that, try the University of Houston.

The older x200 is practically identical to the x201. The T410 is a bit different than the T400 (16:9 vs. 16:10), but it will still give you a good idea.

 

There is one reason to go with an X-series. Portability is more important to you than anything else.

I've had 2 Xs and 2 Ts. I bought a T400 for home (desktop replacement). An X200 with an ultrabase would have been fine, but I wanted two internal hard drives (SSD for boot and programs, spindle for data). I will admit I'm considering adding ax x100e as a travel machine, but for the main home computer, T4x0 is hard to beat.

 

but doesn't the ultrabay on the ultrabase allows you to add the second hdd too just like the T400?

 

I think you can add a second HDD to the ultrabase, but then it isn't internal and doesn't travel with you.

Ironically the T400s is supposed to fill this niche, portability without sacrificing power and features. And it does, but the battery life on it is worse than either the T410 or the X201. Otherwise it would be an ideal machine.

Again, to the OP, you have to weigh your priorities. Power and features vs. portability and battery life. In this case I think the X201 is a better choice. It's just as powerful as the T410, and as you mentioned yourself the features it lacks compared to the T410 aren't features you need, only want for the sake of future proofing. You'll travel somewhat with the laptop eventhough it is a desktop replacement/main computer, and 6 hours on a 9 cell with average usage won't cut it for you as you said. I suggest you get the X201, and if you don't want a full docking solution, just buy a monitor/kb/mouse/external CD & HDD for your desk/home use.

EDIT: Also if you ever do plan on buying/building a desktop again, then the X201 would be a perfect compliment to your desktop, whereas the T410 might be somewhat redundant in it's purpose. Something to think about!

 

They would sell sooooo many X301 laptops if it were like $500 cheaper.

Does the 410s have bad battery life though? 5.5 hrs on a 6 cell sounds pretty good to me.

 

that probably would make it unprofitable.

T4x0s was suppose to fill the niche left behind by the demise of the X30x series, since many people wanted portability at a more affordable price point.

 

Yeah,
I would take a T410s over an x301. If I wanted protable, however, the X201s would be my choice thanks to their high-resolution screen (assuming they become available again in my lifetime).

 

Heh...that's not how profit maximizing works.

 

I dunno, the tabook says:

X201: 6.7 for 6 cell and 11.3 for 9 cell
T410: 6.6 for 6 cell and 11.0 for 9 cell
T410s: 4.8 for 6 cell and 7.9 for 6 cell + ultra bay

Granted, the tabook and lenovo most likely over estimate battery life, but I have a feeling they are all overestimated equally so their ratings are correct relative to one another. And in that case I think the T410s battery life isn't all that great, even with the ultra bay battery.

I also think the battery life of the X201 compared to the T410 is interesting. There's barely a difference, and it makes sense, they have similarly sized batteries and hardware specs. The optical drive or second HDD and larger LED are probably responsible for the slightly shorter battery life. For some reason though all the 'official' and user reviews I've read through make it seem that it's significantly shorter, but all the reviews for the X201 seem to be spot on. Makes me wonder why/how the T410 uses more power, when it seems like it should only be slightly more power hungry.

The X301 for $500 cheaper would be a dream, but then they would probably be losing money on it. It's a shame their price makes them inaccessible though because the few X301 owners I've spoken too say they're the perfect portable thin and light as long as you're not doing anything super intensive.

 

Actually, Lenovo's battery ratings tend to be pretty dead on if you do all the power saving stuff that you can do. That said, I find those numbers hard to believe for the T410 given that they claim 22 hrs with the slice battery in the TABook but 18 hours in the slice battery on the website. Though, the 9 cell for the T410 is MASSIVE at 94wh (vs the 85 for the 9 cell of the X201).

The 6 cell for the T410s though is 44wh, vs 57wh for the T410. So, depending on whether the T410s gets 4.8hrs like the tabook says or 5.5hrs like the website says, it could be that the T410s is actually using less energy.