Charge cycle on open box battery seems high

I bought an open-box T500, and received it 9/19.

I have ran it mostly off the AC, except for a few times I forgot to plug the AC in after booting, and once running off the battery for about 3 hours.

I was planning on ebaying the battery (9 cycle) since I intend to use the AC solely for now.

I just checked and the battery has a cycle count of 46.
The design capacity is 84.24 Wh
Full charge capacity is 78.44 Wh..at?

It seems to have lost more than 6% of it's capacity?


I thought that open box meant the person opened the box, maybe ran it for a few hours or days and returned it. 46 cycles and losing 6% capacity sounds like this battery was used for longer than that.

Am I seeing the numbers correctly?

Edit/ Add:
According to lenovo Sales - batteries in outlet-bought laptops, can have any number of cycle counts, even hundreds of cycles. Unless the battery is not functioning correctly, Lenovo will send the original battery out with the refurbished/open box laptop. It's also possible that the original recipient even swapped it with a older battery before returning the laptop.

For outlet items, the only guarantee on the battery is that they will replace it if it dies within the 90 day warranty period.

 

Hmmm... Hate to say this about someone, but a cycle count of 46 would mean that the person has swapped the new battery with a fairly old one. You can also check the manufacturing date on the battery pack.

 

when is the first use date and what is the make of the cells? Sanyo?

 

Hmm, Battery Manager shows the first use as 2009-01

The sticker on the battery says Lenovo, and I cannot see any date on it.

Battery Manager shows Manufacturer Name as Panasonic
and Manufacture Date as 2008-10-29

This laptop was listed as "open box" and "like new".

 

it's possible you didn't receive the exact battery originally sold with your system.   where did you purchase the system?   if ebay, it's very possible the seller over-embellished the description.

keep in mind that if you use your system without the battery installed, performance will be slightly degraded in processor-intensive tasks.   the system needs power from the battery to reach full output that the AC adapter cannot supply on its own.

 

Is it possible to buy the laptop and have time to cycle a battery 46 times, and still be within the return period... that it could be returned and available as an open-box item?

Regardless, this laptop should not have been called "like new"?

It was from an ebay seller.

 

laptop maybe like new, but battery may not be.... this is why i avoid ebay...

 

from what i've seen, most big ebay sellers list systems as open-box regardless of how 'used' they are.   your definition of "open-box" and theirs are unfortunately different.

if you aren't happy with the sale then contact the seller.   it's their sale after all.   just be sure to read all the terms and conditions in their ad as it might say something about how 'used' used or open-box parts might be.

 

They have the description as "like new condition" and say "All contents of the package have been verified".

Okay, so this battery clearly is not a like-new open-box battery, or even a refurbished battery. It appears to be a battery that was used to power a laptop for about a month and a half?

 

As always with eBay, read the item description with a magnifying glass and never assume anything unless it's explicitly stated. If you're unsure, ask. That'll give you more evidence should things not work out. There can be some great deals on eBay. The tablet I just bought on eBay was a fantastic deal, but because the experience can vary much more widely, you got to your homework.

Why not just email the seller and ask about the battery not being in like new condition? They might make a stink about it, but it's just as likely they'll try to make it right. You won't know unless you ask. I had a similar situation with a notebook I bought. The battery I got was substandard and the seller sent me a new battery. I would also suggest waiting until you're sure everything right before giving feedback. That'll give the seller an incentive to make things right. Don't just take it out of the box and if it looks OK, assume it is.

 

46 cycles would equal more than 1.5 months of average use. However, it depends on the person using it. Some people will run through a cycle a day if they use the laptop predominantly on battery.

In my own case, 46 cycles would probably equal around 6 months of use.

 

As I said, it looks like the battery has been swapped with an older, used battery (manufactured in October 2008, used perhaps longer than a month and a half). The only thing I like about this battery is that it was made by Panasonic.

Seller may keep the "like new" battery to make extra money as a separate item. It might be on eBay right now.

 

Thanks everyone for helping me understand what the numbers mean.

I had read that a cycle count is generated anytime the capacity goes from below 100%, back to 100%. So the few times I had the AC unattached when I started the laptop, and the battery went below 100%, and then I plugged it in to charge back to 100%.. that would add a cycle count.

Even so, it seems not possible to have 46 cycle counts when I have only had the laptop for 20 days, and have had it plugged into AC for 90%+ of the time.


The battery does not seem to match being "like new" so I've contacted the seller. Here's hoping it's an honest mistake which is peacefully resolved..

 

Does the Panasonic have any more features, longer life, or what?

 

Better quality than Sony and Sanyo, never had a major recall as of yet. They give consistent quality... like their Toughbook range.

 

Well I don't know enough to make a judgment myself, but would you rather have a new Lenovo battery (whatever manufacturer they are), or the one I currently have.. Panasonic with 46 cycle counts, first used in January 2009?


I did find some helpful features in the Battery Manager... Battery Maintenance. You can set your battery to only charge up to a certain level, and you can do a battery gauge test reset. This is great to maintain the battery at 40% for the best capacity preservation. Suddenly I'm a know-it-all

 

I think you should contact the person who sold you the laptop and ask why the battery is used, as per the contractual agreement when you brought the laptop (as new).

All i was saying, is that the Panasonic battery gives consistent quality, whether it is better than a new one, is for you to decide. I make no recommendation or suggestion as to which way you should sway in this case.

 

Here is the reply I received...



Hello, like new condition means that the laptop will look and function like new. I am unsure how much the factory tests these laptops, but it is possible that factory tests these for several cycles to make sure that they are working properly. We test these laptops here as well, for maybe 2-3 cycles. It is possible that the battery shows 2009 original date, as this is when T500s were first manufactured.

If you feel that lenovo has swapped this battery with a used battery you can call them and ask them and possibly request a new battery. We just sell these as we get them from the factory.

In terms of like new condition, does it not look like new? You should see other conditions of these laptops that are online, with scratches. These is a prestene condition.

Since we provide 2 years of the 3 year warranty on this laptop, I can offer you another 6 month warranty extension.

Thank You

Only the first 2 paragraphs are relevant to the issue of the battery cycle count and first use date.

The seller did describe the auction as "LIKE NEW CONDITION" and "All contents of the package have been verified".
Seller also stated above that they do test the batteries there. So if they saw this battery had 40+ cycles, the only question is if that can be considered like new.

Would a refurbished (or open box) laptop from lenovo, come with a battery that could have 40+ cycles on it...

I emailed lenovo to see what they'll say.


Just posting this in case anyone has any other perspectives...

 

Here's news we could all use:

Spoke with Brooks in US Sales. He was very helpful and relaxed to speak with.

He was stumped when I asked if there was any maximum cycle count for batteries that would be included with refurbished laptops. After going away for a moment, he returned saying that there is no maximum. They run several tests on returned laptops and if the battery is not functioning correctly, they replace it.

When asked if a laptop came back and the battery had 300 cycle counts, he said Lenovo would send out the battery with the refurbished laptop as long as it was functioning properly.


He said the 90 day warranty would cover the replacement of the battery if it died before 90 days. Other than that, there is no guarantee on the battery's condition or lifespan.

 

2008 is the first year when they produced T500, T400, W500, etc, not 2009.

 

Well it seems that the battery on any returned unit is a unknown.
The best that can be done is to ask about the battery's specs, and numbers before buying.

Aside from the seller not knowing what First Use date means, I don't have any reason to think that he gave me anything other than the battery that Lenovo shipped to him with the refurb.

Small potential inconvenience this time, and I know to ask if there's a next time.

Thanks for the perspectives and info everyone.

And today, 2 days later, the Full Charge Capacity is 78.38 Wh.

If the capacity continues to decrease at this rate of .03Wh a day, the battery should last 7.15 years well I guess why not if the laptop is always plugged in.

I'm considering only attaching the battery when playing cpu-intensive games.. keeping it cooler during the other times... try to make it last 14 years lol

 

if you have the 90 watt adapter, there is no problem with CPU throttling problem even with the battery removed.

 

My battery has a cycle count of 41, and it is over 6 months old... I do leave it docked most of the time, but there is some travel in that time too.

Could be 6 months use, could be a months.

 

Hm, I just got a refurb X201 directly from the outlet, the 6-cell battery has 0 counts and 59.57 Wh full charge (nominal 56 Wh)! Mf date is 2010-04-08; first use is 2010-08. I got the laptop end of September (2010-09). I wonder if the original customer ever powered it up, and whether Lenovo Outlet people tested anything! Anyway, everything looks good. My only questionmark is the cell manufacturer: LGC (LG China, I guess). Does anyone know anything about their cell quality?

On a side note, Lenovo Outlet does not sell "open box" laptops. Open box are not reconditioned in any way, that's what I thought (e.g., such as those used for demo, etc).

 

And I just swapped in a 9-cell that I got from eBay for $95… Genuine, 2010-07, Panasonic, 0 counts… life is good!

 

Life is good = LG.. they don't like their Panasonic competitors.

 

My battery just lost 2.00 Wh (59.xx to 57.xx Wh) after 2 years and 2 months of usage. 166 Cycle counts.

 

ha ha ha ha ... How did I miss it?!

 

If this is factual, this is extremely good. Try doing a real life drainage test and check how long your battery lasts. Would be interesting to know of your findings. Which ThinkPad is it btw?

I have more than once found that there might be a misalignment in what Power Manager reports and the factual remaining battery level. Probably due to a malfunctioning chip or the like. Sometimes a battery gauge reset in ThinkPad Power Manager will not fix this