Challenge: Most reliable Laptop that isnt a Thinkpad.

Well hello. Quite rightly when one asks what the best laptop is in a particular sub-forum they will get the obvious answer for example the Dell forum will recommend a Dell laptop. This will allow for some beautifully neutral non-fanboi type discussion.
So Thinkpaders if Lenovo suddenly started making Thinkpads out of turnips and painting them lime green what Notebooks would you turn to and why.

BTW when I say reliable I mean well built with good quality control. The kind that staves of those pesky gremlins.

I already have plenty of my own opinions on this subject so no I haven't searched because I am beyond search!. At this stage I tell the search whats what!

Discuss

 

Macbook Pro. I've only short experiences with a few laptop manufactures:

-Dell, many years ago
-Gateway
-Asus
-Lenovo (just got T500 today!)
-Apple Macbook/Pro

 

Panasonic Toughbook without doubt.

However, if you want it to be fairly practical (and not excessively expensive), I suppose I would recommend a Dell Latitude as they seem to survive abuse fairly well.

Beyond that, if ThinkPads ceased to exist I might go with an Apple as well, despite the fact that I have little interest in OSX.

 

Dell Latitude/Precision and HP Elitebook are superior to any other mainstream business notebooks in terms of build quality and rival Lenovo's T/W/X line of notebooks. I find Lenovo and even the newer Apple MBPs have fallen in quality.

 

Dell business line. My vostro is to toughest built laptop I have seen ever this side of a tough book. It has zero flex and can take a beating. I compared it to a t61p and the dell felt like more of a tank. But then again it is mainly a metal alloy chassis with very little plastic at all.

 

I'd go with the Sager line. They're no thrills on the outside but great specs and parts with low prices. They're one of the few manufacturers who allow their machines to be sold without a pre-installed OS to help save you money.

 

I had the opportunity to write the review for NBR of the ThinkPad Z61m a few years back and it remains the most solid notebook I've ever used and I've seen a few Toughbooks. It was a bit heavy, but I swear it felt like that thing carved from a piece of stone. Perhaps because it was new and over time the Pansonics would hold up better, but you could have used that thing as a weapon.

 

Ironically (and initialy unrelated) I have decided to return my Macbook Pro due to a myriad of issues. From my other experiences with Apple and reading around for years now I believe that Apple can make reliable laptops its just that they skip the qualiy control and use the consumer to test out Mark 1/Rev A hardware for them. They also take the pi*s with what acceptable thermal cooling is, I don't expect my cpu to suddenly deflate it's manly chest and ask if I could give it somethng easier to do otherwise he's gonna throw a strop and jog instead of run. I've had it with them. So this thread has become incredibly relevant for me now. I am already familiar with Thinkpads and would want a wide range of options.

 

I’d have to say the notebooks that are well designed and the best at dissipating heat consistently are likely the ones that will be the most reliable. This is probably why ThinkPads are known to be very reliable and I’ve yet to find a notebook that dissipates heat as well—though I have very good luck with some older Toshiba notebooks.

As for the Toughbooks, I haven’t really used one for any length of time, so I can’t say much as to their reliability, but they are definitely built tough. I concur with ZaZ on this one. The first time I got my hands on a Toughbook, I easily felt I could readily bludgeon a person to death with it—and the notebook would likely come out unscathed.

Lastly, MacBooks—I don’t feel there are very reliable. While Apple is great at engineering, they are also highly focused on style too—and their MacBooks are notoriously known for heat dissipation issues.

 

If Thinkpads didn't exist, I would likely have gone for the HP Elitebooks. They're built very strong, and are still affordable (costs slightly more than Thinkpads with an equivalent hardware configuration, in my experience). I would also look at the Dell Latitudes, since they're quite nice as well.

 

Here you go guys:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/156450/apple_laptops_extend_their_lead_in_reliability.html

 

Is that a research survey statistics or a random poll statistics?

 

Those pc world tables are pretty worthless. Not that I think lenovo are a gold standard, but if thinkpads were not around I'd probably look into the HP elitebook line (even though I dislike the keyboards), Dell latitude for the cost of refurb units, or panasonic toughbooks if I had no budget constraint at all and could find a laptop that fit my needs.

 

Reliability Measures

• Problems on arrival (all devices):Based on the percentage of survey respondents who reported one or more problems with the device out of the box.

• Any hardware or software problem (all devices): Based on the percentage of survey respondents who reported any problem at all during the product's lifetime.

• Satisfaction with reliability (all devices):Based on the owner's overall satisfaction with the reliability of the device.

• Failed component (laptops and desktop PCs):Based on the percentage of survey respondents who reported replacing one or more original components because they had failed.

• Core component problem (laptops and desktop PCs):Based on the percentage of survey respondents who reported problems with the processor, motherboard, power supply, hard drive, system memory, or graphics board/chip at any time during the life of their laptop or desktop PC.

• Severe problems (printers, cameras, routers, and MP3 players): Based on the percentage of survey respondents who reported a problem that rendered their device impossible to use.

• Ease of use (printers, cameras, routers, and MP3 players):Based on the percentage of survey respondents who rated their device as extremely or very easy to use.

Service Measures

• Phone hold time: Based on the average time a product's owners waited on hold to speak to a phone support rep.

• Phone rating: Based on a cumulative score derived from product owners' ratings of several aspects of their experience in phoning the company's technical support service. Among the factors considered were whether the information was easy to understand, and whether the support rep spoke clearly and knowledgeably.

• Failure to resolve problem: Based on the percentage of survey respondents who said the problem was never resolved after contacting the company's support service.

• Service experience: Based on a cumulative score derived from product owners' responses to a series of questions that focused on 11 specific aspects of their experience with the company's service department.

Survey Methodology

We polled roughly 44,000 PCWorld.com readers who responded to print advertisements and e-mail messages. We used methods of statistical analysis to determine which companies were significantly better or worse than the average, based on all responses about a certain product type. Because our survey sample consists entirely of generally tech-savvy readers, it may not be representative of the general population, which may have different expectations and experiences with technology products.

 

It gives you a nice estimate of what other people feel, but it is hardly any clear data.

 

Exactly, Jaredy.

A quick read on, say, MacRumours, will give you an idea why Apple scores so high:
Loads of people having to fiddle with voltages to the cpu and smcfan control in order to not have their MBA have core shutdowns, yet they think that their MBA is great quality.

Loads of people have cracking palm rests, yet they think that Apple is awesome and that their MacBooks are great quality.

Crappy firewire chipsets on the MBPs, yet they go "But that's okay, that's to be expected, it's still great quality".

Screen lines and having to swap one MBP and/or MB after another and finally getting a working one in the third, fourth or even fifth try. Yet they still go "The quality is amazing".

What really is amazing is that the quality really used to be good. Alas, that was five or more years ago. Apple's quality has dwindled to the point that for quite a few of us they have gone from being tools to being nonfunctional toys which break down more than they should.
Unfortunately Apple won't do anything about it with the huge influx of switchers from the iPod Crowd. They just forget that those people will move on just as quickly as they came when the next shiny object catches their eyes.

 

This survey was not random. I would not put much faith into these results.

 

Dell Vostro line. My 1500 may be a bit heavy, but the sucker is solid and has run without issue for the last two years I've owned it.

 

I have to go with the Dell Vostro - it is plain, black, heavy, and built like a tank. And you could get 2 or 3 of them for the price of one MP Pro - I have to believe that would last longer - just get another one out of the closet...

 

Mine has been lugged around for ~1.5 years and shows no wear, and yes it could be used as a weapon.

 

I find that most people here are not aware of other business laptops besides Thinkpads because they are so often mentioned here. This is the problem with forums where a few "popular" posters make a lot of fuss about Thinkpads and ignore other equivalent business notebooks that are just as good.

A case in point is the often overlooked HP EliteBook range, which is constructed very well and has little issues since its launch. Dell's Latitude is another excellent business notebook range, but that is still more popular due to the high number of people here who bought the cheap refurbs from Dell's Outlet, but would be largely ignored otherwise as they are drowned by the incredible fanaticism over Thinkpads.

 

Well, this is the Lenovo/IBM (ie ThinkPad) sub-forum, you know. Kind of goes with the territory...

 

As long as we're talking sampling...MacRumors members are not randomly distributed in the population, and aren't necessarily likely to be PCWorld print subscribers. Just sayin'

Also, if you look at the results table, it isn't that Apple has a remarkable lead on hardware. It's their service score that really drove home the "win."

 

Interesting thread. Lenovo definitely doesn't have a monopoly on enterprise-level hardware these days. And there software advantages (Thinkvantage) may be on the downhill; we just narrowly avoided losing System Update (returned just hours ago after being yanked for the last month), and the "custom restore" option from Rescue and Recovery has been removed. So I'm interested in looking around for other options.

However, one thing that I've found is that Lenovo can actually be the cheapest of the bunch (Apple, Dell, HP) as long as you take advantage of Lenovo's various sales portals that may be available to you: students, friend's and family EPP, contractors, or employee pricing sales. And then there is always the outlet if you are willing to go refurb. I bought my last X61s through their F&F portal for $900 and my X200 from the outlet for a mere $500 (actually $643 but I'm recouping about $150 by selling the AT&T WWAN card that doesn't work in Canada).

I have not been able to find equivalent low pricing from other notebook MFRs. The closest exception that I've found is the Dell outlet which seems to have more or less equivalent pricing to the Lenovo outlet.

Regardless, I am an x-series man through and through and I have yet to find a comparable 12" notebook in terms of build quality, battery life, and system weight. A read through the Dell forum shows that Dell's business 12" notebook (Latitude E4200) is riddled with problems compared to the X200.

 

I don't think you considered HP's 2530p. Proves my point that most people here will look at Thinkpads, then Latitudes, then nothing else because people rarely know HP actually makes notebooks which aren't branded Pavillion.

 

If not a Thinkpad, I would go with the Dell Business class(i.e Latitude/Precision, not sure about the Vostro anymore, ever since they made it weaker from the 1500, 1700 series) or the HP business class machines. I would not go with a Apple laptop. I think they are way overpriced for what they are giving you. I don't see what is so special about them, unless you are computer illiterate.

 

A lot of us are aware of the HP business line--its what we use at work. I have no complaints (although still prefer the Thinkpad keyboard).

Just a thought regarding the survey--it doesn't differentiate between consumer and business class notebooks. Given the number of new consumer notebooks Lenovo has introduced recently, this may explain why "Lenovo significantly recedes".

 

Make mine the 4th vote. Ye' old Vostro 1500 (wife's laptop until being replaced with the new 1720 that just arrived today!) has taken my wife's less-than-stellar care, a 4 year old's not-so-kind touch, more than a few desk to carpet drops, the rolltop rolling down on it on occassion, and just keeps coming.

Its also large, heavy, ugly, and curses in random tongues (okay, the last part is not true...but it is still an ugly bull-dog of a laptop).

Have to say, however, that its reliability is the reason I chose the Vostro 1720 when my wife wanted something with a dedicated numeric pad. (Okay, stop throwing stuff at me...the 35% off coupon also helped in the decision making process )

I agree with your line of thinking. I'd be very curious to see what the defect rates are for the Thinkpad line(s) vs. the value and Ideapad lines.

 

See I love the way my vostro looks, not only does it look like an adults computer. Its looks also keep thieves away as they assume its just some mundane PC thats not worth anything.

 

That might be simply because it’s a Dell .

 

Either way works for me.

 

You own a bulldog, admit it!

I have to admit, however, that my wife's new Vostro 1720 (arrived yesterday) looks pretty nice. Of course, she wanted the Deep Cherry Red color, which spices things up a bit.

 

I own a boxer actually, and red does look nice but its too flashy for me.

 

I think the HPs often get overlooked due to their terrible pavillion line. Coming from the university, they made a killing by selling those glossy cheap bucket-of-bolts...and the brand image truly suffered for it...i guess in the younger crowd we dont look too fondly on the HP

 

Very good. Much of what has been said is mirroring my own experience and research. Taking things down a notch. What is the opinion on Asus and Fujitsu-Siemens laptops. I often hear good things but niether appear to be built very well, especially Fujitsu-Siemens.
About the Panasonics. Does anyone have experience with semi-rugged/busniess-rugged models.

Regarding my Macbook Pro I may well end up getting a replacement only due to the incredible resale value of Apple laptops. Older models go for 50-100% more than equivalent laptops on eBay. Which is annoying as I would like to tell apple where to stick it but its quite necessary as I intend on upgrading every 2-3 years to keep the graphics reasonably up to date.

 

The newer Asus have had some good quality models and some average quality ones. I'm waiting for more of their notebooks to have better battery life.

 

HP Elitebook, Dell business lines or Unibody Macbook regarding reliability. The Toughbook is too bulky for me.

Actually, I decided to buy the Dell I currently own in last December instead of a Thinkpad, one of the reasons for this being that Thinkpads are loosing too much quality.

 

I've heard some negative comments about Asus' customer service. I've seen a few of their laptops at Best Buy and they seemed so-so. Better than your run of the mill consumer-grade glossy crap a la HP, but nowhere near as well made as a Thinkpad.

A lot of people I know have Dell laptops that have served them well. I'd have to tip my hat to them for second place. I almost went with a Latitude E6500 instead of a T500, but after reading about the overheating issues I decided to default back to a Thinkpad.

 

Asus really depends on what series...
They make junk to decent stuff.

But some of their offerings have very good price/performance (though not so much battery life...).

 

Dell Latitude, HP Elitebooks, or Apple Macbooks get my vote for most reliable laptops that aren't ThinkPads.

 

sony VAIOs are the best

 

Many people would disagree with such a sweeping claim <.<...

Some vaios are nice. Some are just fancied up with sony pricing.

 

Yeah, most (if not all) VAIOs are way too hard to service. And many of them are not sturdy enough, though there also are some pretty tough ones.

 

i actually bought a Dell E6400 and my T4000, and had then next to each other. the E6400 was a solid as my T400. What got me hooked on the T400 was the switchable graphics card. But if both are equally spec'd out the E6400 was cheaper and had a three year warranty over Lenovo's one year. (I bought both from the outlet and both seemed like they were brand new!!)

But I do believe Lenovo is falling from the top with Dell Latitude and maybe HP Elite notebooks catching up.

 

I think that the Dell Latitudes are much better deals considering all the refurb options with 15-20% coupons on top.

 

Whatever it is you’re smoking, it’s clearly very good.

 

yea i completely disagree with the sony comment. Sonys are sonys. They are the prized Japanese brand synonymous with quality.

But the brand aside, while some of their machines are what you'd expect from a Sony, they are actually very flimy. I'd think a dell will survive more punishment than a sony will. The sony keyboards are also terrible. They're like enlarged cell phone buttons.

I would say the toughbooks make pretty good laptops for physical reliability.

 

Sony is hardly synonymous with quality anymore (inherently). They make some nice TVs (which are over priced). The only thing I enjoy from sony really is their recent venture into SLRs.

 

Well sony products are still pretty good i'd say. Their flatscreen tvs are pretty nice, and their camcorders you can trust are reliable. But I personally don't like their styling (other than some of their flatscreens). I don't like this whole silvery shiny purply silvery theme they always do.

 

wow actually sony's Z series laptop is major impressive.