Cancel my T61 15.4" for New Macbook Pro?

Well the new Macbook Pro santa rosa's are out and i'm strongly considering getting one instead of the T61 widescreen.

So far my reasons are:

- 2gb ram standard
- 8600gt graphics card
- LED backlit screen

If I can install bootcamp / parallels and use vista, why shouldn't I?

thanks,

Jeff

 

I heard that using windows at macbook is not stable.

 

if price is not an issue, go for it. I personally wanted to get a new MBP, but after lugging around my friends for a couple days...no thanks, too heavy and the touchpad on them are absolutely crap (1 button is a deal killer too)

 

I'ts about a $400 increase from the T61 I ordered ($1300 + $40 ram vs $1800 for the macbook pro)

I plan on using this as my primary system for surfing the web, burning cd's in itunes, and doing C++ development ( I can use bootcamp on the mac to use visual studio)

Jeff

 

Well, you can't do anything about the screen or the GPU of the T61, but you can toss in extra RAM into the T61 for minimal cost without any problem.

I don't think "standard" makes much of a difference. In fact, you're probably being forced to pay more because it's standard, as opposed to buying it yourself.

 

exactly, the "standard" units are just built into the price of the computer. Id prefer to spec the smallest amount of ram and put in the sticks i want

 

those uses will be just fine on the MBP, but if you need to lug it everyday, I would reconsider. Its a thin 15" notebook, but damn its heavy. a pretty machine though

 

Less heavy than the 15.4" T61 through right?

Jeff

 

the one button thing isnt a big deal. you can set it so when you tap with 2 fingers it counts as a right click. it gets very natural after you get used to it. running windows on the mac is stable, as i am using it as we speak. i have had no problems whatsoever.

however, judging by your needs i think you would be fine with the T61 as those are things you dont need a dedicated graphics card for.

the main reason for buying the macbook pro in your case would be, you dont have to wait potentially up to months, you have the extra power when you need it, future proofing your investment.

personally, i would spend the 400 and have top notch specs, but my opinion may be biased as i own one.

 

i could never get used to the right click movement on the macbooks. i have done extensive graphics and video projects for cliets with a tiny xps m1210 touchpad, and it would have been physically paralyzing to do it with the mac touchpad. i really tried to love the mbs, but i just couldnt.

to the OP, go to an apple store (stay away from the self proclaimed "geniuses") and play with a mbp...see how you like it.

 

I really tried to get used to the Apple platform. I had a Macbook running w/ bootcamp for 3 months and it just didn't work right. The screen didn't look right in XP, several devices weren't working, and the mouse didn't feel right like it did in OS X. I also didn't feel that OS X was superior being a Windows user for over a decade.

The specs on the new Macbook Pro are very tempting though. It's exactly what I want out of a Windows notebook. Nice GPU, LED backlighting, and a nice thin design. However, the lack of a trackpoint and only a single touchpad button are deal killers for me.

 

Yeah I also question the durability long term of the MBP. The T61 case looks so sturdy and much less prone to scratches etc. I don't need a flashy notebook i'm just looking for the best possible desktop replacement.

Jeff

 

thats too bad. i dont like it when people say OSX is better than windows. its completely personal preference and just because they like it doesnt mean everyone else should.

im sure the PC market will come out with a machine with similar specs, time will tell.

as a desktop replacement the MBP would be the better choice if you can handle the changes ie OSX, bootcamp etc.

If you can afford it, the only thinkpad that i would consider for a desktop replacement would be the 15" widescreen T61 with at least a decent dedicated video card. The T61p would be ideal

 

I have yet to see a PC laptop with a magnetic power cord ..but that's not horribly important.

The main one for me is...I don't think there's a decent 15.4" PC laptop with backlit LED screen is there?

 

like i said, after some time, most of them probably will come with LED screens

 

At least I havent seen any other manufacturer move towards the "melt in your hands" connectors yet

I guess it all depends on what you are shopping for. A thinkpad and macbook pro are completely different beasts sold to different types of customers. One is sold on durability, while the other is sold on style and an operating system.

 

There's been plenty of time for them to do so already There's only so much slowness one can put up with.

Hrm, exchange the aluminum for carbon fiber and add a Mg roll cage and you've got yourself a fairly durable laptop right? Actually, all I really want is the screen instead of the outdated stuff PC laptops tend to come with

 

Not to start a flame war here but the differences between OS X and Windows are NOT completely user preference. From a technical stand point OS X is far superior to the windows platform. This is largely because it is built on-top of a stable core, BSD. As a programmer there are countless improvements in OS X over windows.. it's easier to program, interfaces are better defined, the list goes on and on... as a user we should appreciate the greater security such design improvements offer. There are many benefits to using OS X that go far beyond personal preference.

 

Its things like the HD placement in the corner of the laptop with no protection, laptop not coming apart easily without breaking items, lack of easily purchased replacement parts, and no "business grade" warranty support. They dont offer warranty options anything like HP, Dell, Lenovo in terms of onsite support, longterm support, etc.

 

sorry but many of your points are based on assertions and
opinions. My mac g4 powerbook was the most unstable POS laptop i ever bought, and the $2600 price tag was an extra kick to the balls.

 

Because of OSX I had to teach my 78 year old neighbor how to initiate the force quit to kill the mail program when it crashed on her ibook. I have also seen far too many kernel panics on the "stable" platform than one would like.

 

Well, no clue about OSX, but Windows XP has had its share of BSOD and crashes too...not to mention security loopholes.

 

we all know about MS issues, but its apple thats trying to brainwasht he world into thinking that macs are untouchable...its just that no one wanted to screw with their security weaknesses. after enough commercials, people start to believe that macs are somehow inherently more stable and safe.

 

I had a Macbook but I found the screen too small so I sold it and got a 15" Macbook Pro. Sure it is a very pretty machine but I must say, it doesn't feel as sturdy as it should. The LCD's were prone to warping and an uneven fit, and the metal around the slot drive is easily dinged. In addition, when I installed Vista on it with Bootcamp, the Macbook Pro's screen had a constanting buzzing sound and the fans were always on because the cooling system just isnt optimized for Vista. I used my friends T60 for a week and have decided to get a T61 for myself. Good thing I sold my MBP two weeks ago before these updates or it wouldnt have gotten as much on eBay.

 

The previous Mac book pro graphics card was underclocked because the cooling system couldn't keep up. I would get instead an Asus G1s, it's somewhat heavier, but it has very similar specs.

 

Thats exactly the response I was looking for. I've used a Macbook Pro before but was underwelmed with the "sturdyness" of it.

Jeff

 

Now if only Lenovo was convinced that business users want and need LED backlighting we'd be set.

 

Convince the company that stopped selling Flexview to upgrade its screens? Good luck

 

I would just stay with the Lenovo T61 series, or even the Z61, which has a 15% off coupn that ends today. Both series are very nice and while the Z doesnt have integrated graphics, it is very similar to the widescreen T61, minus the Santa Rosa, which right now isn't a big deal because 800MHZ RAM is not readily available. I like the idea of the Turbo Boost, but HP says it is not worthwhile, and myself, well I guess I would rather wait for them to improve that technology a little bit, or just install the hard drives that have it integrated.

 

I'm waiting for a dedicated graphics option in one of the 15.4" Santa Rosa ThinkPads. As soon as they put them in I'll buy it. It has been an annoying wait with the 14.1" T61 getting it and the 15.4" T61 NOT getting it. I'm not even waiting for the T61p, just for them to put a dedicated graphics option in the 15.4" T61.

 

I'd get the Macbook. If money were a factor, then I'd keep searching for cheaper 15.4" PCs since there's nothing extra special about the Lenovo T-series (in fact, the specs are kind of mediocre). Back in the day, the Thinkpad T-series offered awesome specs in its class. Today, it's lame. There are sooo many other laptops with FAR better configurations than the T61. If you're half as OCD as I am, you're gonna HATE the T61's off-center screen. If you don't get the WWAN card, you're gonna hate that off-center screen even more. You might want to look at the Asus G-series, since it's a lot more computer for the money than the Lenovo. Don't get pulled in by old-school Thinkpad nostalgia, my friend. The sexy geek-factor of the T-series dropped about the same time that they started selling it with lower-resolution, widescreen dispays and integrated graphics.

Also, if you're into mobility, the Macbook is far more portable than most other computers, since it's only 1" thick. Some computers with smaller footprints, like the Dell XPS m1210 or Sony non-premium SZ LOSE because they approach 1.5" of thickness and, really, that is the 'size' that matters when you're trying to cram things into a bag.

 

If your main reason to get the T61 was its specs, then go for the Macbook. If nothing else, the screen and the GPU are awesome.

But if you got the Thinkpad for its business features - i.e. the keyboard, the build, the durability, the roll cage, the choice of ports, etc., then there's nothing the MacBook can offer to compete against the T61 in that regard.

Also, if you have a particular reason for needing the FX 570M over a consumer GPU, then of course go for the Thinkpad.

 

Thinkpads have never been known for including the latest and the flashiest gizmo. What Thinkpads are well known for are its build quality, durability and dependability, my friend.

 

i imagine they'll soon offer a T series thinkpad with LED screen
but waiting is never fun

 

I wouldn't call them flashy. But they were decently equipped. High resolution 14" screens, decent graphics, Bluetooth. The T42, in particular, was really great for its time. Although Thinkpads were at one time known for dependability and quality, that's not necessarily the case anymore. There are dedicated forums that more than amply cover THOSE issues. I'm not saying Thinkpads suck, just that they're not as great and awesome as they used to be. I'm not sure I'd get lured in by a company's past achievements when there are other companies that are building solid reputations with equivalent or better products (HP, for instance). Of course, when buying an Apple, one always has to worry about the many issues plaguing their recent hardware. A friend of mine, for instance, is on her 3rd Macbook Pro and 2nd motherboard exhange. The problem isn't really covered in any of the forums...it just dies randomly. Kind of scary when you consider that you're paying 2500 for the damned thing!

That said...apparently the T61p will have 14" SXGA+!!!!! I'd put a hold on the Macbook Pro purchase to see how that pans out, personally. Maybe the screen won't be so oddly set, either.

 

I'm interested what these other high quality brands and models are? Also where are the threads about problems with the T60/T61? I'm genuinely asking because I'm curious.

I've spent about a month looking at new laptops to buy (and I haven't bought one yet). What Santa Rosa laptop on the market, excluding apple, beats the T61 in both features and design quality?

 

When people say the T61 has bad specs--they're usually referring to the GPU and possibly the screen, both of which are targeted towards a very limited and specialized area of the market. Take those out, or if you only need integrated graphics, and most systems are about the same as the T61 in terms of performance specs.

So, if you're looking for a consumer GPU, then almost every other halfway decent 15.4" laptop out there beats the T61. It's just a matter of how much build you are willing to sacrifice for that GPU.

As for the MBP--it beats the T61 in 2 major features: the GPU only if you want a gaming GPU, and the screen. The rest, it only comes up equal to or falls short. As for design quality, I don't think even Mac users would go so far as to claim that MBP ever beat the T series

For other brands...
If you want tough....the Toughbook is well..
...there's always Ruggednotebooks.com!
...I hear GE has a notebook out that can take quite a beating...

Otherwise
The HP business lines - slightly stronger GPU for gaming, people swear build quality is comparable...the ones I've seen recently were decent, but it was hard to tell.
Asus - the V series focuses more on non-business specs than the thinkpad (again, GPU, glossy screen type, etc.,) but the build is still good, and it retains all the business and security features of the T series.

 

i'm pretty sure mac fanbois would, actually!
after all, design quality is an opinion, and mac people are very opinionated

 

I count myself among the opinionated though not a mac person . To me build quality isn't about how well the plastic sticks together but more about the design. For instance sager has good build quality, but you'll never convince me that they didn't hire monkeys to come up with their design. I think intel released their prototype thin design to wake up manufacturers to the fact that most PC laptops are gaudy, ugly, and contain unnecessary "flair" so to speak.

Take the Macbook, it contains almost no flair. By all means it's a rectangular aluminum box with flat sides. But it's elegant and everyone can see it, but the people who design PC laptop cases just don't get it. Although I have to say the business notebooks are getting there. I think the other PC manufacturers are avoiding apples simple rectangular design in fear of being seen as an imitation. The T61 however is a perfect example of how you can have a no flair laptop which does not look like a MBP copy. That's my brief opinion on design and I'm very opinionated .

 

Not all "plain" look equal however!
There's the good "plain" - Thinkpad, MBP
Then there's... the Compal IFL90

But seriously...the MBP looks elegant, but the outside looks cheap I love the shape though.

 

there's no denying it's very elegant

 

And it doesn't look dated, wich most computers do after 6 months.

 

True Believers do not question why the Creator has dealt them a bad hand in life.

The few people I know that own Macs are all very fashion conscious people. It's hard to resist the style of MBP.

 

I'm so frustrated with the shipping garbage that lenovo makes us put up with, I am seriously considering other laptops... I know several posters have said the quality of the HP machines is comparable, I am having a hard time believing it though... anyone else want to weigh in?

 

Both Asus and Compal have good reputations for build quality. Compal dealers also get high marks for customer service. Most of the complaints about these machines are about aesthetics, Asus being too flashy (G1S) and Compal just being ugly.

I went with Compal but no one ever accuses me of being on the forefront of high fashion.

 

hp business machines are nice, similar to thinkpads in the no flash, but robust built quality.

 

I sold a macbook pro c2d recently that had many issues from frequent crashes to dead power port and motherboard. It was a refurb and may have just been cursed. The screen was also rather mediocre with very bad uneven lighting.
I did love the style and form even though it scratched rather easily..and I loved OS X. I would wait on a few reviews of the new one before jumping. Vista runs hot on it..at least it did on mine. The graphics was not underclocked on the c2d models..just first core duo revision.