Buying a T420s. Optimus for $1,552, or Intel for $1,254?

Title says it all. I'm looking into buying a T420s this weekend, but I'm not sure if I can justify the extrea $300 for the Optimus graphics. It's a graduation gift, so the money isn't a huge issue... Still, I could get some nice accessories for that scratch.

Both setups have the i5 5420m, 4GB RAM, 320GB 7200rpm HDD, Windows 7 Professional, Finger Print reader, Bluetooth, Camera, Intel Centrino 6205, and a bay battery. (I'm an employee at a corporation that recieves an extra discount, and the Memorial Day Sale gives me a killer deal here.)

My use: Looking for something strong and durable for overseas use. Thinkpads obvously spring to mind. I play a lot of games, but that takes a long 2nd place to reliability. I'm kind of a gamer - hence my desire for the Optimus. Again, I know you don't buy a thinkpad for gaming - but it's one way I'll be using the laptop, and I'd really like to be able to run through a few games every once in a while.

I've heard the Intel graphics are a lot better than they used to be, and this will be replacing a MacBook from 2007, so anything will be an improvement. Still... since I enjoy a lot of intensive applications (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc) and games, I feel like it might be worthwhile.

Please let me know what you think!

 

Hi,
Here's my thoughts. Hope you don't mind me chiming in since I don't own a T420s.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, I just read the odd article, but it looks to me like buying notebooks with discrete graphics cards just adds cost, heat, complexity, for not much gain. Games companies don't write drivers for notebook graphics cards like they do for desktop class graphics cards, which they constantly update drivers for.

So think carefully about what games you want to play on the T420s with optimus. Make sure it can actually do what you want it to. There is a T420s owners thread, you could read through there. Hopefully T420s owners will chime in with some info for you.

Some other thoughts:

The T420 is a little thicker than the T420s, but it starts at $750 (with Core i3-2310M Processor, in USA). That's $500 less than the cheaper T420s you're considering. That $500 is money you could put towards an xbox or a gaming desktop computer, you can build a decent one for around $700-$900.

Here's a link to PCper.com Hardware Leaderboard. They list out all the best parts you can get to build a desktop computer for a certain budget, their midrange system goes for $880. They also have a great podcast if you're into that sort of thing.
Leaderboard | PC Perspective

 

Thanks for the quick reply!

I already have a desktop that I put together myself. It's a gaming rig, but surprisingly my temporary graphics card (my old one burned out) takes everything I can throw at it. Most of the games I play are a couple years old, though.

I did see on the 420s thread that someone said the Optimus model runs hot. Others suggested that it runs fine, and perhaps includes more efficient cooling mechanisms specifically for that reason. (I've been lurking for a while, trying to read everything about all the different models.) Your note about driver updates is interesting... I wonder how Intel compares to NVIDIA support here, since Intel isn't currently manufacturing desktop graphics and thus might have more resources focuing on the integrated solutions.

I'm going for the T420s vs. the T420 or T520 for the bay batterey, the USB 3.0 port, mobility, design, and supposedly improved speakers. I'm looking into teaching abroad, so I'll probably be carrying my laptop wherever I go. Shaving off a pound or two and slimming it down will be a big help to me - I never though I'd be paying a premium for mobility, but there you go. (I used to laugh at my brother, who bought a MacBook Air. "Ha! Enjoy paying more for a slower computer!")

One of the things that I'm considering is putting the $300 towards an Intel 320 series SSD - the 160GB one would definitely bring better performance improvements to the laptop, but wouldn't quite address the uses I want out of it.

I've checked out the benchmarks, and while the Optimus seems to show a slight but not too significant advantage, others have said that real-world performance is an order of magnitude better.

Part of me says not to waste the cash and live with the lower graphics, but I have a feeling I regret it when I see Battlefield Bad Company 2 or Rome Total War is unplayable.

 

How important is the slim profile of the T420s to you?

My personal machine is the T410s but I have the T420, T410 and T420s in the lab.

If you need more ports and connections, go with the slightly larger T420. They breath a little better and don't weigh much more. That and you get better battery life with the 9 cell.

 

Yeah, $300 can buy a lot of things. You can even buy a Vidock and monitor for that, which should offer more performance gains (albeit at a cost for portability or course).

 

You may find some useful info in my T420s review. The new Intel GPU within the CPU has moved it well into what was last year's dedicated GPU territory particularly if you couple it with two RAM modules so that it gets full dual channel memory access. Notebookcheck has some gaming results for the Intel HD 3000. Results for the 4200M are less numerous . If you are going somewhere hot then integrated graphics may be the better choice. While there may be some differences in cooling systems (the maintenance manual lists 4 different fan assemblies but doesn't specifically align them to different models) the space available in the chassis will form a constraint.

John

 

vidock and monitor for $300? What monitor 16 inch?

 

Unless you need the dedicated graphics, they drain the battery, also +1 for the after market SSD upgrade....

Bay battery is also a nice novelty, but if you dont need it... then don't waste your money.

 

I had a similar concern. To sum up what John wrote:

1. Going up to 8GB of RAM seems to help (there is a post that talks about upping to 8GB, and possibly better RAM, which improved SC2 to being fairly playable).

2. For overall speed, the after market SSD is your best bet.

Like the above posts, think hard which games you want to run. If you are talking thinks like Witcher 2 or Deus Ex, this might be an issue. I've looked into the ViDock as an alternative, and I may experiment later on with it.

I just ordered the T420s with the Memorial Day sale. I pretty much bought bare specs, and I will upgrade to 8GB of RAM and an aftermarket SSD (either stable intel 320 or possibly OCZ Vertex 3 - but that's another discussion).

For me, notebook shopping is a lot like other major purchases. It's rare to find that exact perfect computer. For me, portability became more important than gaming in the end. And I was willing to compromise on the screen, since at home, I'll probably connect it to an external. And I was willing to pay a bit more for a slimmer machine (compared to the T420). We all have priorities (my wife prefers looks - the "cuteness" factor). At least you've been doing research rather than jumping right in.

Take care.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Most of you seem to think its not worth it...

As for which games, Stout: I'm more of a Deus Ex fan than a Deus Ex revolutions fan. I play more Battlefield 1942 than anything else. If I can play the new Age of Empires Online, I'll be happy. At the same time, I love Battlefield Bad Company, and Medieval 2 Total War, and some other ones that can be quite demanding - but by and large, I'm old school.

I have a feeling the integrated graphics might do well enough to sustain me. I just don't want to get to that moment where I really, really wish I had tossed a little more scratch into it.

 

Whatever the abilities of the Intel HD Graphics 3000, for playing games it is inferior to the dedicated Nvidia NVS 4200M. See Intel HD Graphics 3000 - Notebookcheck.net Tech and NVIDIA NVS 4200M - Notebookcheck.net Tech to see the frame rates for a selection of games for each gpu (including cpu-determined variances for the 3000). According to those pages, in general, the Nvidia 4200m with a 5420m cpu will give about double the frame rate for the same settings in most games as the Intel 3000 (or you can increase the settings level on the Nvidia for a similar frame rate result). If you just want to play the occasional game at low settings, the 3000 can do it. But if you want a little better result than that definitely go for the dedicated Nvidia. [Oh, and I would suggest to your employer that including an SSD rather than a HDD would be a very good decision, both for speed of computer operations and toughness of data storage media - especially on the move!]

 

Reminds me of the decision whether to buy the V6 or V8. Hated the V6. Sold it and got the V8. Loved it.

 

By the way, I forgot to mention, since I did think about what games I played, I did opt for the Optimus. The rest of the specs were barebones. I'm just going to add memory and the SSD myself.

I didn't mean to lead you away from the Optimus actually.

 

That's what I was thinking. Better to have it and not worry, than to not have it and regret it. The question isn't just if the increased performance is worth the price - it's the peace of mind, too.

I'll call the associates Monday (if they're open?) and see if I can get a better deal. If they can sweeten it any further, I'll probably go for the Optimus. If not, I'll make do with the Intel.

Of course, one part of me says that not being able to play games all day might be a good thing.

 

The $300 you save can be put towards an external desktop GPU if you find the HD3000 is insufficient. Eg: x1.Opt GTX460 via expresscard slot. Can do it for $200 if shop around. See http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-diy-vidock-experiences.html . Such a setup will outbench the NVS4200 by 2.5-3.5 times. Can do the same with a X220.

 

Unfortuantely, my plans won't quite accomodate the bulk. Otherwise, that would be fantastic. I wasn't aware those had gotten so affordable and powerful - I haven't been in the laptop market for a while, and last time I heard of them it seemed rather niche. I'm impressed that the ExpressCard implemenation pushes such speed - I wonder if Lenovo supports the 2.0 standard for PCI-e and ExpressCard. (I thought they're both 2.0 now, but I'm a 15 minute expert at this point.)

Thanks for the links (and thanks everyone for the help!)

 

nando4: yeah, that's what I am planning on doing in the near future. Especially since I'm only going to play games at home, mobility isn't much of an issue. I just have to figure out which card is best and what not.

 

I think I've come to the conclusion that very beautiful games aren't going to run at very beautiful settings on a laptop anyway. Besides, I mostly play older games. I think I can keep myself more productive on the integrated solutions, and push for an SSD upgrade if I need it. Hopefully I'll see better battery life and coller temperatures as a result.

I'll just play all the great games from before 2008 on my laptop and be perfectly happy. I don't think I really need Battlefield 3 that much.

Thanks for all the great tips everyone! And I'll look into a VidDock for when I'm able to accomodate the bulk.

 

Unless you are playing games, battery life will be the same whichever you choose, as the system will be using the intel 3000. But you have a good point - for first class modern gaming you need a different gpu to either NVS4200M or the Intel...and old games will be OK on either...I had a similar quandary to your with choosing options on my new T520. My available choices for the same price were a quad i7-2630QM with optimus gpu (NVS4200M+Intel 3000), or a dual i7-2620M with no optimus (Intel 3000 only). There was no third option of a dual i7-2620M with optimus gpu, which would have combined a lower powered but very fast cpu with the flexibility of having two gpu's. I went with the other way to you, but there are excellent arguments for both ways, I think...