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    Better screen for photo editing work

    Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by tsservo, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. tsservo

    tsservo Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi all,

    I'm currently trying to decide between a T60 and a Z60m. This is going to be my primary machine with preferably no external display. I'll be in Cairo for two years with it; I've got another thread in "Which notebook..." regarding getting my options down to these two from everything else out there.

    I have been reading a lot about the Z60m's Maxbright screen and the T60 Flexview screen. Yes, the 15.4" widescreen is incredibly tempting, particularly the 1650xwhatever resolution one. However, I'm more concerned with color fidelity and contrast.

    I've got a color calibration kit (Monaco Optix XR) that will take care of a lot of stuff, but obviously it's best to start as good as possible. It's a good color calibration kit, but it's not magic.

    What do you think is the more appropriate screen?

    Thanks

    Tim
     
  2. Smith2688

    Smith2688 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well, FlexView gives you good viewing angles if you're going to have a few people looking at the same screen. The MaxBright gives you good contrast and brightness.

    If you're really going to be doing photoediting, I'm surprised you're even considering using an LCD, let alone a laptop's LCD. CRTs are truly the way to go if you want color accuracy. I assume, however, that this is not an option?
     
  3. tsservo

    tsservo Notebook Enthusiast

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    The separate CRT (my current setup) is highly not preferred as I'm essentially going to be on the road for about 2 years. I'll be moving from the States to Cairo, Egypt. Keeping hardware to a minimum is my goal.

    If it's really necessary, I'll get a CRT to use in the apartment in Cairo when I'm not on the road. But I'd like to avoid this if at all possible.

    But a high quality screen is also necessary to show clients when you're not near a good screen.
     
  4. Smith2688

    Smith2688 Notebook Evangelist

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    Ahh I see I see.

    I have not been able to compare the two, so I'll leave this to someone who has.
     
  5. sparta.rising

    sparta.rising Notebook Consultant

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    With the T60 you can get a UXGA screen. Also, I think when people hear that IBM's are lacking in the screen department they get the wrong idea. Its really only that its lacking compared to the rest of it. They aren't as nice as a high end multimedia laptop, but they're still nicer than a low end laptop or a high end from a few years ago.
     
  6. strikeback03

    strikeback03 Notebook Deity

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    That a CRT is better than an LCD for color reproduction is no longer necessarily true. There are plenty of LCDs these days that are as good as or better than most/all CRTs. The Apple displays always are popular, NEC makes some LCDs that include calibration hardware and software, and some of the Dell displays are good as well.

    I bought a T43 with the Flexview SXGA screen for the same purpose. I'm very happy with it, Colors are good and it is very consistant in contrast across the screen, much better than ones I compared it to at best buy, etc. Nowhere local has a Z60 to compare the Maxbright screen though, so I can't offer a direct comparison.
     
  7. vkyr

    vkyr Notebook Consultant

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    The 15.4" WSXGA+ screen is no MaxBright panel, there are actually only lower resulotion WXGA MaxBright panels available for the Z60m series.


    Well, in your case I would first of all try to decide which screen type you prefer, e.g. decide if you prefer a widescreen or a 4:3 standard TFT-panel.

    Afterwards the decision to make is probably much easier. So if you prefer a 4:3 standard format panel then go for a T60 with a SXGA+ (or maybe UXGA) FlexView TFT. But if you prefer a widescreen panel you should opt instead for a Z60m with the WXGA MaxBright panel.
     
  8. dr_st

    dr_st Notebook Deity

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    I don't think there are many screens out there as good as IBM's Flexview. Not even on high end multimedia laptops. Most manufacturers take a crappy panel and stick glossy coating on it to get a few "wow"s, until the initial impression wears off and your stuck with a mirror.

    I'm not a professional photo editor or anything, so accurate color reproduction isn't of great importance to me, but I think that not a single person seriously dealing with color would agree with you. Most LCDs out there are 6-bit TNs and as such are completely terrible for color reproduction. High-end CRTs are still unbeaten in color quality and the only LCDs that come close are S-IPS ones. Flexview, by the way, is an IPS screen, albeit not an S-IPS one. It's still only 6-bit, but the better kind of 6-bit. Of course the viewing angles also help for accurate colors, since you don't get top-down color gradient effect, for starts.
     
  9. Asics

    Asics Notebook Enthusiast

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    dr st,

    How would you compare the quality of the Flexview screens with the Z60m maxbright?
     
  10. dr_st

    dr_st Notebook Deity

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    Haven't seen a MaxBright, so unfortunately I cannot compare. From what I've been told, MaxBright is noticeably brighter, but is still a TN panel, so Flexview will win in the viewing angles, and possibly in color reproduction as well.
     
  11. Smith2688

    Smith2688 Notebook Evangelist

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    MaxBright won't be great for photo editing because because of its low res.
     
  12. vkyr

    vkyr Notebook Consultant

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    It's obvious that you aren't a professional photo editor and that you thus don't might know much about the professional color management domain.

    In fact there are professional LCD monitors available (for example from NEC, Eizo and some other in color management spezialized companies) which offer nowadays even slightly better color management capabilities than any spezialised Barco or Quartographics CRT had so far. Those better LCDs do support the enhanced Ultra-wide color gamut (the NEC 109% for Adobe RGB color spectrum via a 3 color LED back-light system) and so are first class LCDs for color related working in areas like the color proof, print and publishing domain. These LCDs usually also come right out of the box with build in calibration techniques and some other domain related goodies, but are of course pretty expensive.

    NEC for example uses their own super-advanced, super-fine TFT (SA-SFT) technology for their professional 21.3" LCD, which can simultaneous display 1073 million colors out of a total of 68.5 billion via a 10bit display driver and a 12 bit look up table (LUT).

    S-IPS and IPS (in-plane switching - a wide-viewing-angle technology whereby the switching of liquid crystal molecules is performed by a glass substrate and parallel flat plate), VA (vertical alignment -
    a mode in which the alignment of the liquid crystals is vertical to the glass substrate when the voltage is off and horizontal when the voltage is on), STN (super twisted nematic liquid crystal - nematic crystals with an approximate 180- to 270-degree twisted structure and the display mode using these crystals) and TN (twisted nematic liquid crystal - nematic crystals with an approximate 90-degree twisted structure and the display mode using these crystals) are different LCD drive modes and some of them have only been updated slightly over the past years. Some panel types like MVA and PVA panels, offered in the past better respone times in contrast to IPS or S-IPS panels, where the later offered instead better viewing angles and more constant colors. Nowadays there has been made some progress by all panel types. However manufactors like Sharp or LG-Philips, which offer S-IPS panels have also slightly enhanced the response times of some of their panels, but they still can't beat those of TN panels.

    BTW, the MaxBright has -for a notebook panel- acceptable colors, which are as good than those of the FlexView panels, but it's WXGA resolution isn't very high for serious DSLR photo editing work. - Finally let me say, that related to color quality and correctness mostly all notebook panels are more or less poor in comparision to good desktop LCDs, no matter if they are FlexView or MaxBright panels. Even the best and most luminant glare-panels which show usually more vivid colors, are far away from showing correct colors, thus it's always important to do some good color calibration on the notebbok panels too.
     
  13. tsservo

    tsservo Notebook Enthusiast

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    vkyr: Very informative, thanks.

    From what I gather, the Flexview will be acceptable for basic on the road work if I get the high-res IPS screen. I'm sure that if I calibrate it with my Optix XR, that will help improve matters somewhat.

    I'll see how close I can get with the screen on the T60 and get something better as necessary.

    If anything, I guess this'll force me to take better photos to start with so I have to do less correcting... :)
     
  14. strikeback03

    strikeback03 Notebook Deity

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  15. Asics

    Asics Notebook Enthusiast

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    Good information, everyone. Thanks.

    Does Lenovo publish information regarding contrast ratios, viewing angles, etc. like Dell does? Or even better, is anyone aware of any third parties conducting such tests? I'm trying to determine if the Maxbright screen is as good as or better than that on the Dell Latitude D810 (which I'm also considering).
     
  16. goga

    goga Notebook Consultant

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    Dell is not an option for good screens.
     
  17. Nooorm

    Nooorm Notebook Consultant

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    You may be able to find the info you're looking for here:
    http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/LenovoInfo?OpenAgent&key=Thinkpad+literature&&cntry=US-L

    or here: http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/OIX.wss
     
  18. strikeback03

    strikeback03 Notebook Deity

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    well, there are some very highly rated desktop LCDs from Dell. I have never heard of anyone overly impressed with their laptop displays though.
     
  19. goga

    goga Notebook Consultant

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    All Dells are bluishly gray no matter it is a desktop LCD or laptop (made by Samsung and alike).