I've owned my W530 for nearly 2 years now and it's been an awesome laptop and to be honest it's still going strong, there is actually little need to change it apart from maybe going to a better IPS technology panel.
However, I normally change my laptop every 2-3 years and with the 2 year mark coming up I thought I would ask what is the best W540 alternative / W530 upgrade option?
I am asking for an alternative to the W540 because most things I have heard so far are that it's been a big downgrade to the W530 and previous Thinkpads in terms of design and build quality.
I don't know if it's true but I've been reading a fair few comments on this forum saying that Lenovo really seem to be killing the Thinkpad and going in a totally wrong direction, if this is true, what are the die hard Thinkpad users moving to? What is the next best thing out there at the moment for those not happy with the direction Lenovo has taken with the Thinkpad.
I hope things will change in the near future and Lenovo will do a 180 and go back to making the Thinkpads of old. Only time will tell.
Cheers.
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I've been contemplating moving to a W530-like computer for quite a while. Unfortunately I feel this year it is going to be really hard to do. I've owned several alternatives to the W540 (ie. 15" mobile workstations), but they all have too many compromises.
M4800 - The best machine I have owned. It is big, heavy, built very well, fast, and has epic cooling. It doesn't ever break a sweat with even Prime95 and Furmark. Unfortunately, the QHD screen does not allow Nvidia Optimus and drops battery life to 3-4 hours. You can get a FHD screen and Optimus, but after seeing how great the QHD screen is I can't make that compromise. (Returned)
M3800 - Great design and screen. Unfortunately, I can't justify this over a rMBP. The i7-4702 is the only CPU option and the k1100m is quite disappointing. The battery life with the smaller battery is also not very good, and there is coil whine. rMBP has longer battery life (even with the M3800 on the larger battery), same storage options, faster CPU options, faster GPU, and no coil whine. (Returned)
ZBook 15 - Friend owns one, equally good as the M4800. However it is mind-bogglingly expensive and offers no high-res screen options.
rMBP 15 - I have the $2600 one currently assigned from work. It is a great size with a good blend of performance. However having to switch between OSX and Windows every 30 minutes is very irritating, they should have included a larger power brick, and it won't last under heavy load without throttling. (Not mine so can't return)
W540 - The best blend of price, has a good screen, CPU, GPU, and battery options. However everything else is more iffy. I used a T540p and was quite disappointed by the trackpad (imprecise clicking), track point (lack of buttons), screen flex, backlight bleed, and flex on the base. Keyboard is fine, just takes time getting used to. I haven't had the chance to dump $2000 on a W540 because I don't want to go through another Lenovo return nightmare (like on my T430) and because there doesn't seem to be much activity on the model.
I might get a rMBP for my personal use and try to migrate fully to OSX, as it seems to have the least compromises (if you can live with one SSD only, 16GB RAM, and fewer expansion choices). -
Hi Changt43x, I agree with you on the price of the Zbook 15, prices here in Australia are ridiculous. However, I had a look at some trust worthy sellers in the USA and you can get a brand new top spec'ed 4800QM with 32GB RAM and UWVA FHD screen for around $2300 which is the same as I would pay for a similar spec'ed Lenovo in AUS. Better than paying the $4000 they ask in AUS for the same spec Zbook.
Not sure why HP are so out of touch with prices in Australia.
However after looking in more detail, there is still actually very little reason to upgrade from my 3820QM FHD W530, the performance 15inch options out there are just not that big a jump. Guess I'll wait another year but I would still be interested to know what Thinkpad die hards are moving to now the Lenovo seem to be killing the brand. -
IMHO: Lenovo isn´t "killing" anything at all. They are just changing in the direction the market changes in my point of view. You can like it - or not. Everyone has his / her own view / opinion on these changes - nobody can tell you if they are good or bad, because you will have to experince them for yourself, and then decide on this experince.
changt34x already listed the alternatives in the Workstation segment to the W540 - Dell Precision M4800 and HP ZBook 15. All three (W540 included) have strengths and weaknesses - you have to decide whats important for you and whats not.
If I would posess a W530 like you have, I propably would skip Haswell and wait for Skylake - not because the machines now on the market are bad, but because Haswell isn´t really a big step forward in CPU power - the real benefit of Haswell is the better efficiency for the ULV CPUs. Also, you would gain a improved screen and a better GPU (but the GPUs used in all current Workstations are already outdated). You will have to decide if thats worht your money... -
soldered ram
cruddy screens (bad qc control)
cruddy trackpad
integrated buttons
service is not as great as before -
They are moving in the direction the market is moving? Lol whut?? Never saw so much complaints all over the place since the *40 series. It got even crappier compared to the *30 series.
No dedicated buttons, gone Thinklight; gone good keyboard layout, gone eSata, gone power supply compatibility. And on top of it all still the irritating 16:9 screens. If they are gonna copy Apple with all the crappyness they better start with copying the one thing Apple did right: 16:10 screens. But knowing Lenovo, they will probably claim those screens can't be bought. Just like they claimed they killed the 4:3 Thinkpad T61 due to "low demand" while there was a 2-month waiting list and $300 premium just to get that 4:3 screen...
Thinkpads used to be different in the fact that at least the keyboard and trackpoint were vastly superior to the competition. Currently that's hard to claim though... the layout got downgraded to that of the first "multimedia" laptop.
Somehow Google is able to make Chromebooks with 2560x1700 screen... so it can be done. Now combine that screen with the keyboard and I/O layout of the *20 series and *poof*; gone are all the complaints. And you can still offer a cheaper variant in the same chassis: just put in a 16:9 or 16:10 screen with a huge plastic bezel, just like you do now with 16:9 screens in 16:10 laptops.
Even worse: it even seems Lenovo produces that Chromebook.... -
- More Flexing: What do you mean by that? More Flexing where? Do you mean mean more palmrest-flex? Then: No, the new machines don´t have more palmrest-flex. If you mean screen flex, than also: No. The screen used in the T440s for example is way thinner than the one used in T420 or T430s for example, but still flexes about the same amount, because the material is just better.
- Soldered RAM? Are we really talking about the W540 here? I don´t see soldered RAM in this machine...even if you expand that on all new ThinkPads, you have exactly 4 machines with soldered RAM:
- T440s (partly soldered)
- T440 (with i7; partly soldered)
- X1 Carbon
- ThinkPad Yoga
And you have 7 machines with normal, removable RAM (not counting S/Edge models):
- T440 (i3 and i5)
- X240
- T540p
- W540
- T440p
- L440
- L540
So, the majority of ThinkPads still have normal, removable RAM. And honestly, whats the big deal with soldered RAM: Soldered RAM isn´t any different from any other soldered component on the motherboard. It is not really more likely to brake than any of these other soldered components...
- Cruddy Screens: Lenovo does use IPS screens now on nearly all T/X/W models. If you are refering to the fact that there are two IPS screens used in the T440s/T440p with different quality: Yes. Thats true. But thats no different from any of the generations before. Most components, with few exceptions, are coming from at least two different part manufacturers. Thats something normal, also with screens. And thats not only Lenovo, every manufacturer does that to ensure that they don´t ran out of parts. I heard that HP also now started to use these LG screen on their ZBook 14, propably also on the Elitebook 840....
- Cruddy Trackpad / Integrated Buttons: Both points are really the same, and both not valid IMHO, because this is purely a thing of personal taste/preference and also "getting-used-to-it". Propably, if you ask someone the first day he uses a new ThinkPad how the TrackPad is, he would answer you different than 4 weeks later.
This is a very polarizing change no less. For me myself, it absolutely does not weaken the TrackPoint at all, and how could it: In the end, it works just like the former design with dedicated buttons, it just feels a bit different because the buttons sizes are a bit different and of course the feeling is different (thats the "getting used to" point).
- Service: Well, I can´t say anything about this. I know that the service quality of Lenovo can be very different, depending on where you live, but I can´t comment on the service, since I never had any defect with any of my ThinkPads.
Anyway, this thread is not for this discussion... -
X240 has soldered ram
T440 soldered processor, unnecessary on a laptop as large as the t440
if you even want to talk about the w540, don't gloss over the throttling issues, obviously you do not use your thinkpad for professional work, but having these issues in a 2,000 workstation is ridiculous especially if you are doing large renders or cpu heavy work which can take hours, and a stupid error from throttling when trying to meet a deadline is definitely something that would make me want to throw this piece of garbage out the window..
touchpad is not opinionated when you consider that it is really dysfunctional, granted most people who buy tp probably use the pointstick but eventually that will be removed
it seems like the more people praising the thinkpad are the people who either work in a cubicle and don't really do serious work or are students, technically that is what not thinkpads were marketed for, of course you are not going to experience issues when you sit in a desk all day
the brand has been diluted into a hybrid consumer laptop with a work laptop sticker on it.. -
Most people I heard of with the X240 do not report flexing - the say that it is a well build machine. The T540p is of course a bit more prone to flexing, since it is bigger and has more slots and also a DVD drive, but thats nothing new with ThinkPads. It does not affect durability.
2. "A laptop as large as T440"? The T440 has nearly the same size as the T440s, and is exactly as thin. A socket for the CPU does take room in the height. There are larger laptops than the T440 with soldered CPUs.
Please utilize capital letters in your sentences.... -
Why are we so emotionally attached to a brand? If someone criticizes something, that's their opinion. Simple as that. No need to get very defense about it. And these things are opinions, nothing more.
I think we are moving away from what the OP had asked about (as it happens in all threads) to what the people in the thread want to discuss. He's looking for a certain thing and here we are throwing our opinions and judgments around (which won't really help him). But I guess if this didn't occur, most of the threads on the internet would be much smaller. -
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My $0.02 would go along the following lines...
While I haven't personally used W540 for an extended amount of time, I'd say this much:
a) The change in keyboard/trackpoint area is drastic enough to warrant testing the of the new setup in person.
b) W540 has - by far - received the worst user feedback out of the entire *40 generation, judging by the number of *legitimate* complaints on the Lenovo Forums and elsewhere.
c) I would deem that a top-spec'd W530 would still hold its own in a "head-to-head" test against a 3K version of W540 (apart from the screen) pretty well for most applications.
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Thanks for your opinion Ajkula66 and others, even if it does sometimes seem to get a bit heated .
Ibmthink, you definitely know your thinkpad products well, I appreciate your opinion. However, I can't ignore the numerous poor reviews on the internet and even on this very forum, the number of people speaking poorly about the W540 is considerable.
As mentioned earlier, think I'll stay with my W530 for now, it's still very capable. In my opinion the performance gap to the new generation is simply not big enough to warrant leaving behind a solid, functional design. Maybe the next range of Intel CPUs will provide a large enough step in CPU performance so that combined with a better screen, the decision will be easier. -
T420:
Detailed specifications - ThinkPad T420
http://www.lenovo.com/shop/emea/content/pdf/ThinkPad/TSeries/en/thinkpad-t440-datasheet.pdf
Here:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T440-20B6005YGE-Notebook.114855.0.html
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X240-End-Insert-Fn-key-woes/td-p/1330763
There is already too much software that raises blood pressure too much. No use in buying a machine with hardware that will add on to that...
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x240 is not well bulit. I've shortly (month and a half) owned two. Both had faulty keyboard (some keys were screwing and squeaking on press), one had rattling fan and badly aligned glass screen vs the bezel (sharp glass edge that is, with addition of touch usage, capable of cutting a finger). the build quality is terrible for 2500$ I've spent on a piece.
The only luck was that the retailer has no problems with returns. Because with the second ntb I visited Lenovo Authorised Service shop and tried to get the keyboard and fan replaced. Apart from the fact, that the delivery of replacement components was 14 days instead of 3 days promised, they told me also that the keyboard will not be probably fixed and that especially f1 and f4 keys (with diode) will screw again. -
We are always pushing our beliefs, whether pro or con, down on people. To be honest, I think people value their beliefs far more than actually trying to help others. -
More precisely:
You have people who are "loyal" to a certain brand regardless of what they make. And on the other hand you have people loyal to quality products, regardless of who makes it. Emotional attachment to a brand is just complete stupidity. Of course those companies want that...
Look at Apple: regardless of what they come out with... a lot of people pay double for it compared to what the same thing from a competitor costs. With the Thinkpad fans however... their fanboyism is generally more based on a love for quality... not a specific brand. That's why you can read about people ditching Lenovo and buying a Dell Precision. When I bought my W520 I didnd't really have to look at what HP and Dell had to offer; the Thinkpad was clearly superior for me. If I had to buy new today... I don't think I would end up at Lenovo at all. More likely a Dell Precision M4800. Even better though: I have absolutely no reason to buy anything at all: my W520 is still alive -
This discussion is "beating of a dead horse" - since high-res screen are available now, the biggest disadvantage of 16:9 is gone - less vertical space then former 16:10 or 4:3 Notebooks.
Now let make me a comparison:
T430s: 343mm x 230mm x 21.2–26.0mm
T440s: 331mm x 226mm x 20.65mm
Add to that that the T440(s) now has drop-down hinges, which also helps in this aspect, it doesn´t make the machine smaller, but it hides some of the bezel...
You see, the X240 might not seem like a well build machine to you, since you had defect ones. But there are always some Lemons, X230 also had some quality issues ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HrBqtUtvUI) these were also resolved after a few months. Ask most people now what the think about their X230, they will say to you that it is a well built machine. The X240 will be no different.
Hope you have more luck with a different Notebook.
There are enough people who complained that the Enter key was no longer blue...
There are enough people who won´t even try out a new ThinkPad, not because they are bad, but because they look (a bit) different from the former ThinkPads. The best example is the new keyboard itself:
Don´t try to fool yourself. You can´t generalize on "ThinkPad fans".
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I really thought that we were not going to go down that path again, since it has nothing to do with OP's question and needs... -
I'm curious what W530 configuration the OP currently has. If I were in that position I would probably keep the W530 for another year since Haswell does not really offer much more in terms of power and there are potentially other upgrades that could boost W530 performance to keep it competitive for another year. The screen is another issue, but since Windows and some software is still pretty bad at scaling I'd not want to go beyond 1080p for now anyway.
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I don't know about you guys, but I have yet to see a single touchpad where I would call integrated buttons an upgrade. If done right, it's a sidegrade. If done wrong, it's potentially a dealbreaker. The touchpad on my netbook is even smaller than it would be on one of the new Thinkpads (if those had discrete buttons), and yet, it's not much of an issue for me. In fact, the new touchpad design was unusable for clicking when I tried it in store - sounds like most of that is due to early bugged drivers, but the overall feel still didn't seem as nice as the last-gen ones, or other business laptops with discrete buttons.
And as for screens, I also see zero reason to have 16:9 over 16:10 unless you gain more pixels. (I do a lot more on my computer than watch movies.) 16:10 is good enough for side-by-side multitasking, yet still enough to have a good height. I realize this isn't likely to change unless the entire industry moves for some reason, but one can hope...
In any case, for the original thread, why upgrade every 2-3 years just because it's been 2-3 years? Unless the W540 is substantially better than the W530, what's the point? -
But yeah, since there are too much stupid people around in the tech world... it "works" that way that you can sell something crappier and claim it's better.
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1) has decent build quality
2) 32GB of RAM easily added
3) 3+ TB of SSDs easily added, and don't cost much really (sub $500/TB)
4) decent cooling
5) DisplayPort 1.2 (i.e can hookup more than 2 high-res monitors)
6) Has centered keyboard, with the exactly same keyboard layout available for on-the-desk use (after all you don't REALLY expect working with a workstation-grade laptop on your lap)
7) Size-Weight is reasonable for travel (yes, your cellphone will weight less, whatever you choose, and is likely to have MUCH higher screen resolution if you're after ppi number, and a desktop will be FAR more powerful, especially if you care about GPU performance)
8) Decent battery life in typewriter mode (like 6+ hours)
9) Trackpoint that actually works, and is your device of choice, even with mouse or touchpad provided too
...
Tada.. It's W530! Or W520, if you can sacrifice #5. Sadly, but true. -
The reasons for me normally upgrading every 2-3 yrs are:
1. Due to me using my laptop for work, it gets a fair beating.
2. The 2-3yr cycle is normally long enough for a decent upgrade to be available (not the case this time).
3. I only have 2yrs warranty and I don't like being out of warranty (the 3rd yr extension option is $$$).
4. As a result of working in the IT sector, I' am able to get approx a 35% discount per yr on a personal laptop, combined with works corporate preferential pricing makes buying a high spec unit a fairly inexpensive exercise.
I really still enjoy using my w530, if anything I may upgrade to 32GB RAM down the track for more VMs but it's still a solid unit. The main reasons for me moving to a new unit would of been a better display (IPS and higher res), better graphics card and faster CPU, however looking at the options available there is really nothing in the 15inch form factor that provides a significant upgrade in these areas, apart from display, while still being reasonably priced and maintains other important features I have come to enjoy on my w530 such as:
huntnyc likes this. -
As you get significant discounts on corporate purchases, an HP Zbook / Elitebook may be a decent next purchase in a year or two, as they tend to get high ratings on build quality. The biggest problem with a workstation from pretty much anyone but Lenovo is going to be battery life. Since most (if not all) other professional workstations are not compatible with Nvidia Optimus, none of them will have anywhere near the battery life of a Lenovo W-series.
huntnyc likes this. -
Most... but not all.
The FHD (and lower I guess) versions of the Dell Precision M4800 with nVidia support Optimus. It's just that the Intel "GPU" can't handle the higher resolutions, so that's why it is disabled with the 3200x1800 screen.
With HP you get arrow up and arrow down keys that are sized for 5-year olds.
Best W540 or Lenovo Alternative?
Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by Flickster, Apr 16, 2014.