Are you sure that you have not been ripped off by Lenovo/IBM?

Are you sure that your brand new Lenovo/Thinkpad laptop carries the full warranty period to which you are entitled?

Even if you are, please read on - and then check again your laptop warranty status on Lenovo's web site: Warranty Lookup

On July 31, 2007, I won on eBay a brand new, factory sealed, Lenovo 3000 N100 (Core Duo T2350) laptop. I paid for it $735, including S&H. For a 1GB RAM system with Vista Business included, I thought that was a pretty good deal.

The item showed up at my door, several days later (August 3, 2007). It was brand new, factory sealed - exactly as advertised.

In no time, it was up and running - just as my previous Lenovo 3000 N100 (that I purchased directly from Lenovo) worked.

Both still work perfectly.

As soon as I registered it online (you know, that automatic program that runs as soon as you turn it on and recommends registration), however, I checked its warranty status (see link above) and... I was surprised to discover that instead of being covered a full year, its warranty status showed "valid until March 8, 2008" only.

"Huh???", I thought, "Must be a mistake. I will email them a note and that will fix the problem".

Within 24 hours I received a polite reply instructing me to call 1-800-426-7378.

The woman who answered the call, Yolanda (full name reserved), asked me to email her a copy of the receipt. No problem - I did so within minutes - and within a few hours she replied:

Huh???

In order to receive the warranty stated in my brand new booklet (that came with the Lenovo) I must purchase it from " an IBM authorized retailer" ???

What is the basis for this claim?

I quickly checked the warranty terms - on both the printed booklet that came with the booklet and the PDF document that is available on online - and I saw no mention of anything that comes even close to being required to purchase it from "an IBM authorized retailer".

The most I could find was a requirement to retain "proof of purchase to obtain warranty service".

I then replied with a request to either provide me with a legal basis to Lenovo's representative claim, or resolve the issue to my satisfaction.

More than 3 weeks went by - and I am still waiting for a reply...

In the meanwhile, I am curious to know whether I am the only one who encountered this bizarre "customer oriented" treatment or there are others who evidenced the same (or similar).

Your stories and/or comments - are welcome.

Thanks,
Daniel

 

That's strange ... IBM usually doesn't require any documentation other than the code on the bottom of the machine. They good thing about Thinkpads is that they carry the warranty with them, regardless of owner.

I would call back and check to see whether or not you have better luck with another rep. I have always had good luck with their support.

 

I'm thinking that you have to transfer ownership.

 

If this is a one year warranty and the notebook was built/shipped/purchased by/to the original owner in March of this year, I can't see anything wrong. As far as I know, the warranty starts when you buy it, not when you open it.

 

I have to agree with mike.......e on this one.

I can understand why they would ask about an authorized retailer...otherwise, anyone (and their mom) could sell thinkpads out of their garage with a warranty.

If, however, the ebay auction claimed there was a year warranty, that may be reason to go after the seller.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with this. If someone buys a brand new car with a 5 year warranty, and the car sits in their driveway brand new as delivered from the dealership, that car is a year old. If he sells that brand new car, the buyer(you) isn't going to get an extra year on his year old five year warranty.


You bought your computer off of ebay. If the computer was advertised with a one year warranty you should be going after the guy you bought it from, not Lenovo. If he didn't advertise with a one year warrenty, then you have no room to complain.

The warranty starts the day the laptop is shipped. Which I think is a little unfair, they should start the warranty when it is in your hands. I can understand though that it may be difficult for them to get that information from the shipper.

 

I had this happen to me as well. I bought a T41 from an individual on ebay in August 2004 and received the laptop in a factory-sealed package. The seller indicated that the laptop had a 3 year IBM warranty. The laptop was seemingly registered to me during the initial start-up process.

When I had a system board failure this March, I was surprised to learn that the warranty had expired as of February! When I contacted IBM they indicated that the eBay vendor was not an authorized IBM reseller. With this in mind, the eBay vendor had simply purchased my laptop from IBM as a typical consumer and that the 3 year warranty period had begun in February, 2004 and not in August of that year when the vendor elected to pass it along to me. I learned a lesson - buy from an authorized reseller and check on your warranty status after the purchase to verify the warranty period.

 

They have no connection to the seller. If you sold expensive electronics and found out that someone was coming to you with a broken piece of equipment they bought off ebay wouldn't you feel like you might be getting screwed? For all they know the laptop has been running for the past four months, had parts stolen and replaced with broken parts then was packaged up and sold as new on a webstite many people have nicknamed FLEAbay. They would have to trust people they have no connection with. Another scenario, the laptop has already been sitting around for months, it could have been sitting a 180*F trunk of a car for all they know.

 

But I bought straight from lenovo, I'd never put up with crap you find at best buy, or circuit city, or any retail store for that matter. The thing is, Lenovo has a connection to those stores they have contracts with. This isn't a Lenovo problem, the problem lies on the person they bought the laptop from, they are the ones selling 4 month old laptops.

 

They are called Authorized Retailers...not Qualified Retailers.

 

i bought a made for china market R60 earlier this year off a seller on china's version of ebay. I had no problems when i called in the tech guy from ibm/lenovo to replace my faulty keyboard, the tech guy ran the number off the bottom of my machine and checked if my keyboard was the original item and then replaced my keyboard FOC. No need for documentation of anykind?

He told me as long as my laptop's serial number can be found in their system they will honor the warranty.

 

Yes, lenovo will honor the warranty regardless of change of ownership, however unless you purchase it from an authorized retailer the warranty starts the day its ships from the lenovo factory. in the case in question in this thread the seller on ebay was not an authorized (re)seller therefore the warranty began the day it was shipped to him, not when he resells it (or when it is registered which seems to be the confusion here.)in the case of an authorized retailer the warranty would start the day you purchased it. For everyone who buys a thinkpad on ebay one note any seller worth his beans will gladly provide the model and serial number for you to check with lenovo regarding warranty and specs. if they wont give up these numbers deal with someone else, plain and simple.

 

Guys, thank you for your replies and comments thus far.

However, I was disappointed to see that you missed my main question in my original message: Where, in any warranty statements or documents from Lenovo, does it say that "unless you purchase it from an authorized retailer the warranty starts the day its ships from the lenovo factory"?

Also, I am very interested in stories from other customers who experienced the same disappointment.

Have you checked your warranty status? Were you surprised to find out that it ends sooner than you thought? If so, please tell us about it.

Regards,
Daniel

 

dbe2007, I think you're really up the proverbial creek without a paddle at this point. If I buy a Thinkpad w/a 1 year warranty today, never open it, and sell it to you in 6 months - you feel you should have a 1 year warranty and not 6 months? I'm not an IBM/Lenovo authorized reseller - I'm just Joe Schmoe Average Consumer. You didn't get ripped off by IBM/Lenovo... but rather by your e-bay seller.

 

Very nice - but what is the basis for your claim? Have you seen any written statement from Lenovo that states so? Or a federal law? Or just a legal precedence in court?

Just because a big corporation with deep pockets decides on its own to respect warranty only through authorized retailers, with the assumption that "average Joe Shmoe" will accept it as it was a verdict from court, doesn't mean that it is just - or even legal.

At this point, I read enough opinions. I now need either a proof for Lenovo's position - or more stories like mine.

Who knows, perhaps we have a case here for a class action lawsuit...

Thanks,
Daniel

 

I doubt you've got a case for anything. I'm sure Lenovo has a written statement somewhere to protect themselves from this kind of nonsense.

If you're so worked up about this, why don't you save time and look through the fine print yourself? If you think you have looked, call Lenovo and ask a CSR to direct you to the correct part of the website.

 

This whole thing is common sense. You have no suit and Lenovo 100% has something to protect themselves.

 

You're missing the point. The E-bay seller is just some regular person. He bought a laptop. He then sold it to you. Whether he sold it the day he got it, or 6 months later is immaterial. The warranty started the day he bought(or perhaps the day he received) his laptop. This is definitely a precedent in law in the US, and I'm sure is part of Lenovo's website. Look up when your warranty starts. I believe it's receiving date. The point remains that he is not an authorized reseller of Lenovo products - If you were to buy the laptop from Best Buy, it's warranty would start the day you purchased it. You buying it from E-Bay doesn't make the seller an authorized reseller. Many E-Bay sellers are average consumers selling their own property for profit. It'd be like if I sold you my laptop today. I wouldn't expect you to have a new warranty starting today, I'd expect mine to carry over. Lenovo doesn't care when you opened the machine, they care when it was received(or purchased)

 

I did. I am still waiting for a reply from Lenovo (see beginning of thread). In the meanwhile, I am curious to hear about others experience.

But from the replies so far, it seems that I have touched a sensitive nerve. Am I the only one who managed to save over $300 by shopping smartly?

Daniel

 

You touched a "sensitive nerve" by not utilizing common sense and complaining about getting "ripped off" for no reason.

Again.
Lenovo did not screw you.
The eBay seller did. Take it up with him.

 

I would have totally agreed with you if he (the reseller) opened the package. But it came factory sealed.

If physical and material fact like "factory sealed" does not count, then common sense of "average joe shmoe" does not count either. Which means that we are in the legal realm... papers, documents, lawyers.

Show me the documents, please.
Give me a link.
Provide a URL.
Scan a piece of paper and display it here.
Anything other than opinion. Please.
(or additional stories like mine)

Regards,
Daniel

 

Maybe you should give something more than opinion too?

Oh by the way, I haven't driven my car once since I bought it over three years ago. The warranty hasn't started yet.

My T41 has been sealed since I bought it over three years ago. I should complain about my warranty too.

etc. etc.

Seriously. Common sense.

 

So you'll stop being a retard:

(from Warranty FAQ)
When does the IBM Machine warranty begin?
IBM's warranty begins on the Machine's Date of Installation. The date on your sales receipt is the Date of Installation unless IBM or your reseller informs you otherwise.

(from Thinkpad A series warranty info (and no, I doubt they've changed the meaning of the 'date of installation'))
The warranty period for a Machine is a specified, fixed period commencing on its Date of Installation. The date on your sales receipt is the Date of Installation, unless IBM or your reseller informs you otherwise.


Does that answer your question? Can you stop being a sensationalist? Can you stop wasting my post count! Kthxbye.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but there are two sentences in the warranty that caught my attention. The very first sentence of the entire document:

"This Lenovo Limited Warranty applies only to Lenovo hardware products you purchased for your own use and not for resale."

and the 4th sentence in the document:

"The warranty period for the product starts on the original date of purchase specified on your invoice unless Lenovo informs you
otherwise in writing."

I do believe it would be easy for Lenovo to defend in court that if a person is not an authorized retailer, then any sale of their products by that person is considered resale. I'm sure they could find plenty of precedence for the definition of "resale" in the business realm.

The other sentence had me wondering what the "original date of purchase" is defined as. And it looks like ponicg found a definition of that in the FAQ. Could be argued it would be nice to have that defined in the warranty agreement (maybe I'm just used to agreements being 50 pages long, instead of 3, where every new term is defined).

Just my $0.02

 

If I am a retard, then how would one call the geniuses working @us.ibm.com, who for almost 4 weeks (and counting...) could not figure out what you managed to find using reasonable means?

"unless IBM or your reseller informs you otherwise"??? Hmmm... does that mean that IBM can shorten the warranty period as it sees fit? Is this legal?

Retards,
Daniel

 

not sure if ibm (lenovo) can shorten your warranty or not legally, but take note there is a definate reason they call it a "limited warranty". I understand you are unhappy that you dont have a full year of warranty, but you are actually fairly lucky. Lenovo is one of not many companies that a warranty transfers with new ownership. It is possible that a purchase of another brand of laptop would have meant no warranty at all. Given that if you call several times and complain to lenovo they may lengthen your warranty just to appease you, i wouldnt count on it, but i might work. this is about all i have to say on the topic. I hope life makes you as happy as you demand to be.

 

Lets say I sold it to you.

I sold it to you and told you, in addition to it having a 3-year warranty, that it was the Thinkpad Reserve edition and had Yao-ming's signature on the lid.

I am a joe schmoe working at a minimum wage job and I have no connection to Lenovo, other than buying a laptop from them. Should Lenovo back up my statements? Does Lenovo even know I exist? My point is, eBay carries a small amount of risk that individuals can take but companies can't, and you've got to go mano-a-mano with the seller who wronged you.

 

No they won't. Lenovo didn't shorten the warranty. The warranty started the instant the eBay seller bought the machine originally.

 

Maybe you should post this 3 times in the row, so everyone here finally gets it.

 

Ebay has a section about sellers making sure that they list their auctions accurately. Since you are saying that this person stated that the item cam with a one year warranty when in fact is does not, means that they violated Ebay's selling policy. This is something that you might need to take up with Ebay, so they can work out a solution like getting a refund.
you can read more about it here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/compliant-listings.html#2

 

To the original poster... Just pack up that PC and mail it to someone who can figure it out and utilize some common sense. PC warranties start the day the systems are purchased (if retail) or get shipped/delivered (for CTO systems). While the system sits there snug in the box, the warranty period is ticking away. The person who sold you the notebook is at fault here, and also you are at fault for being completely ignorant on this issue.

If you bought it from say Circuit City who sell Lenovos, the warranty would start the day you bought it even if Circuit City has it in the box for 9 months. This is because Circuit City is a reseller and authorized to stock and later resell the notebooks. If you lack the capacity to understand the difference, probably a good idea to just stop posting.

 

OMG! same thing happened to me. I bought a C200 from ebay and now I see on the link in the original message that I have less than half the time that should be. This is insane: lenovo says "The warranty period for the product starts on the original date of purchase specified on your invoice". The date on my invoice (from ebay) is 8/15/2007 but warranty on lenovo web site is only until April 2008. What's going on?

 

It's not YOUR original date of purchase. It's the original date of purchase from Lenovo(or one of their authorized resellers acting as an agent of their company)

I fail to comprehend why it is so difficult to understand this. Lenovo isn't ripping you off, and the e-bayer will get away by saying "but it does have a 1 year warranty... I never said when it started" Can we PLEASE let this thread die?

 

Thanks for the URL. My Warranty is correct, which is good to know.

And my warranty date is based on the date that my laptop was shipped/finished building.

 

Have you not read the rest of this thread. It is clear that buying off ebay is not considered an official channel by lenovo. "The warranty period for the product starts on the original date of purchase specified on your invoice" that is a quote from an official lenovo document, hence the reference to invoice would mean official lenovo invoice, not ebay invoice. For all and any who would buy or sell on ebay electronics producers do not view ebay as an official outlet for sales hence warranties may be more limited or completely void. Do your research before you buy.

I would like to second the motion to let this thread die. I do realize that i am keeping it alive with this post, but i read some posts and dang i cant help but comment. So sorry to everyone for continuing this thread and i am ready to let it die

 

Wow, aren't you a prick. I'm sorry for being harsh, but you come across as the typical worthless person who would rather shovel their problems on someone else and get law-suit happy just because you made a stupid damn mistake. Grow up and accept it - you got screwed and it is no one's fault but your own.

 

If someone else has said this already, sorry...I don't have time to read the whole thread

Anyway I would guess that the warranty and the laptop are two separate entities in Lenovo's mind. Even though the laptop may be in mint condition, the warranty begins to run down the minute you purchase (whoever purchased it, anyway) the laptop originally.

It doesn't matter to them that the laptop may be in perfect condition, because to them, the warranty's lifetime has nothing to do with the laptop itself, only the receipt with date of purchase on it.

So even though you may have saved $300, you now have to spend most of that $300 to get a new warranty from Lenovo. That IS where they make a lot of their money (and now we see why!)

 

Hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Joecross, thanks for making my day. I must be a SEEKRET! RUSSI... err LENOVO agent! LMAO. What is posted here, in this thread, is definitely not for my benefit. I'm neither an authorized reseller of Lenovo, nor am I employed by or have ever been employed by Lenovo or any company they have worked with(other than selling machines to).

Before I begin though, let me say that lifebytes needs not get so bent out of shape. Nobody needs to be called names, period.

Common sense is hardly subjective. Imagine, if you will, if Lenovo's policy was as the OP suggests it should. What's to stop me from buying a few T60s this year, them not selling for 3 years, and now Lenovo having to try to replace bad parts on a 3 year old machine that they probably don't have stock on.

The original poster HAS no merit. He didn't even bother to check Lenovo's site until after the e-bayer ripped him off, which I doubt was intentional. I bet the E-Bayer never even knew that he was selling machines with a worse-off warranty than advertised... since in his mind, 1yr = 1yr... not 1yr = 1yr since I got it. Maybe he did know though, so think as you will.

The point remains that nobody here is "mad" because we paid more for something "might not ever get any benefit from"... You don't see us complaining about buying our warranties. The simple fact is that the OP is pissed because he tried to save money by buying a machine off e-bay, and instead wound up with a lessened warranty machine. Lenovo was pretty clear about the warranty info, and it took me 3 seconds to find it on their site: I searched for "When does my warranty start". Wow... the OP couldn't do that? And neither could Lenovo? Something's wrong there.

Frankly, the OP's post has no merit, and neither does your claim of deceptive tactics and ambiguity. Lenovo is quite clear on the matter, as are the precedents set forth by the last 20 or so years of warranty purchasing and use. One thing you fail to realize is that the OP is not one of Lenovo's customers - he did not buy a machine from Lenovo.

 

I agree that the OP had some valid points. I agree it should have been outlined more clearly in the warranty agreement, and not assumed. And it shouldn't have required several different people looking for the answers, spread out over several documents. However, as stated before, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what the standard procedure is for writing legal agreements where certain practices are assumed by all the major players.

When I first read saw dbe2007's comment about a class action, I laughed a bit, and figured if he wants to try it in court, why not. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Then, I realized, dbe2007 could actually do some damage by going to court over this, win or lose. In the best case scenario, realistically, they modify their warranty agreement to cover the details dbe2007 found lacking, maybe even give dbe2007 the 4 months he "lost" from the eBay purchase, and call it a day, in which case, only dbe2007 (and those involved in the class action, I suppose) would benefit.

In the worst case scenario, Lenovo could decide to make their warranty agreement more restrictive, more in-line with other PC manufacturers (e.g., the warranty does not follow the serial number), in which case, we all lose. We've seen similar behavior before, where retailers had flexible return/exchange policies, only to tighten them later because people were abusing them.

Another possible outcome would be Lenovo modifying their warranty agreement to allow the warranty period to start when the factory seal on the laptop was broken, regardless of how many "resellers" it passed through. I highly, highly doubt this would ever happen.

Just because we don't agree with dbe2007 doesn't make us financially vested in Lenovo; I fail to see the logical connection. Though, I wish it were true, I'd love to own stock in a company like Lenovo

 

I'm still new here so I don't really know about this, but do mods close stupid threads? The point has been made that the warranty period begins when the notebook is purchased REGARDLESS OF BY WHO from LENOVO. I suggest the OP count their blessings in that they still have some warranty. MANY manufacturers of many different things will VOID the warranty of the item if it is transferred from the original purchaser.

OP, you've made it clear that you saved money purchasing off of eBay. Perhaps you should have considered the loss of some factory support when saving money and purchasing a previously owned, albeit new, notebook from someone who is not Lenovo. Also, eBay != Lenovo. They have nothing to do with each other. A sales invoice date from eBay means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Lenovo. There is no question that you are not entitled to a renewed warranty just because it is new to you.

Additionally, I would hate to have you try and file a law suit against Lenovo because no one would join in a class action with you, you'd be hard pressed to find a lawyer to represent you and an even harder time finding a judge who wouldn't throw the case out. Lenovo's documentation states that you are incorrect.

Take responsibility for your own actions.

 

..and THAT is what this all boils down to.

 

So i have to aligned with lenovo and not just a customer, i think not. Your statement has one big flaw. the OP was not a customer of lenovo, he was a cutomer of an ebay seller. thats why the warranty situation is what it is. by the way i am in no way upset or angry over this whole situation. If the OP wants to file a complaint with the BBB and try and get more warranty out of lenovo he can go for it. as for a class action suit a doubt any lawer would take on such a case, my opinion is it is baseless and would get nowhere.

 

I'm sorry, but no. Common sense is that he got screwed by the eBay seller. Common sense says that a company can't just give out more warranty because you bought it from some random guy (like I said earlier, who's to say I ever opened what I bought 3 years ago?... at least following your logic).

The ONLY issue is with the eBay seller.

Let this freaking thread die already. It has no merit.

 

again, if he feels that he got ripped off by the seller who falsely advertised that the system would come with one year of warranty, whether intentional or not, that is something that the buyer needs to take up with Ebay. In Ebay's policy they state that the listing must be listed accurately. Since it was not, this is something that the buyer can easily prove, thus giving him cause for getting a refund from the seller.

 

Wow! I just arrived here by sheer coincidence. After feeling screwed by lenovo ( see http://www.sickofbeingscrewed.com/read_screws.cfm?ID=139 ) I searched Yahoo! for "ripped of by lenovo" and your forum came up first:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=ripped+of+by+lenovo&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2

Any idea whom to contact in a case like this?

Thank you!
Moe

 

eBay... again this is not Lenovo's fault.
Take it up with the seller/paypal/eBay.
Let the thread die.

 

What do you mean eBay????? I did not buy from eBay I bought directly from Lenovo. Lenovo lied to me, stole my money and told me to go away. What do you mean by let the thread die? Why die? I don't understand.

 

Didn't bother to read your links... considering this entire thread has been about people buying from ebay.

Let it die because the THREAD is pointless. Your issue may not be, but this thread is.

 

You didn't bother to ready my links and I should accept your opinion that this thread is pointless? Mr. ooxxoo, don't you think that this is a little arrogant on your side?

I think that this thread is very worthwhile. Thanks to it I found your forum. I find it pointless to open another thread just to discuss my own case. IMHO, it is absolutely correct to have all cases of Lenovo ripoff organized in one thread.

 

The issue is that the original poster was not ripped off by lenovo, thats why the thread should die.

Your case however is very dfifferent. the best suggestion i could give you depends on your payment method. if you paid with a credit card then call up the card company and dispute the charge. just tell them the story and they will go to bat for you. most credit card companies are very willing and helpful in a situation like this. good luck