Are the newly designed Thinkpad keyboards THAT much better ?

Good day all,
I was wondering if the newly designed Thinkpad keyboards (with the bigger ESC, and DEL keys) are actually that much better then the older style keyboards. I figured the new keyboards have been out long enough now to get some "real world" testing. Also, Lenovo also claims that the keys themselves are closer together so that less crumbs, etc. get into the keyboard.

Just curious to those that own newer Thinkpads if you like the keyboard better than the older one ?


Mike

 

the new keyboard is better than the old perforated keyboards (used on the T400/500, W500, R400/R500), and the key design is actually quite good (with the smaller gap, and the cap lock has LED indicator). However, the tactility of the keys are not as good as the one used on the T61 NMB keyboards but comparable with the Chicony one.

 

I’m also intrigued by this, the solid backplate keyboards are legendary - fantastic feel throughout the keys. Going to the perforated design is a real step down in my opinion, I was using a R400 with this keyboard design and it did not feel anywhere as tactile compared to my NMB T61 keyboard. (Though strangely I do love the Chicony keyboard better!)

I am liking the news of the smaller gaps in the new keyboards however, it's pretty annoying when certain bits do enter my keyboard at times that I had to get a small piece of sticky tape to try siphon it out.

 

My R400 came with the perforated keyboard, which was later replaced by the solid backplate one. I did find there were differences and the solid backplate keyboard does feel firmer and more...how should I put it...robust?

As for the keyboards with the lit up Caps Lock and the bigger "Esc" and "Delete", I have seen them, but never used them. But it is likely that they would be a bit more convenient...searching for the smallish Esc key sitting above F1 is a bit of a hassle sometimes. I just hope the new keyboards are also available with the solid backplate.

 

After 2 weeks, I'm still having a little trouble getting used to the narrower key spacing on my T410s vs. my T61p. Also, my T61p keyboard was faster and required a little less effort to strike the keys. I suppose time will tell; there is no retrofit as far as I know.

 

no retrofit as the keyboard screws placement are different and the shape in certain area is different.

 

I have the standard T400 keyboard and before I got it I read about this particular keyboard being spongy, at first it didn´t bother me but now I´m starting to think that its not a really good keyboard, too much flex.

 

Wow, great fast responses !
My T61 has the NMB keyboard and it's simply fantastic ! (Though my X301's keyboard is slightly better, no clue if that one is an NMB or not though).
I just always wondered if the new T510, T410, etc. keyboard quality with the new keyboard design. Seems most people so far like it.

 

X300/X301 keyboards are all NMB.   they're also perforated.   go figure.

 

Really ? Wow, I didn't know that ! I know the X300/301 has like a little "rubbery coating" on the keys themselves. The actual keys feel great.

 

I don't find the new keyboard that much better but to be honest I stopped hitting F1 instead of Esc. I think the bigger key was actually aimed to get all the users comfortable with ThinkPads so its not 'better' but 'as good as ever'.

The capslock LED is somehow a miss. You never see it unless you look down on the keyboard. ThinkPad designers must have noticed it afterwards because they included an on-screen symbol! Now what was the point of removing the LED belowe the screen?

Now, keyboards in my R60, T61 and W500 where excellent, even the perforated one (which didn't show any amount of flex at all) but the one in W510 is a bit different. The keys press is shorter/more shallow than before with a mushy feel. At first I kept missing letters because the usual light press was not enough. After a month I got used to it and its alright.

 

I have a T61 that supposedly has the best version of the keyboard, and I also just got a 410s. I like the new 410s keyboard better. Hope this helps.

 

Having used a T42, T400, X200 and W510, the new style keyboard on W510 is by far superior to anything in the old days.

Typing on this thing is totally effortless and feedback from the keys is absolutely awesome with no flex anywhere. I am a light typer and found older thinkpad keyboards to be too stiff when it came to the action of the keys. This made me miss letters alot of the time and caused unnecessary fatigue. For my typing style the new keyboards are significantly superior.

I also love bigger delete and escape keys.

 

If my T410 is any indication, the answer is: no, not really.

Yes, the new design *would* fix the problem if Lenovo had strict QA and kept to strict tolerances, but since they don't there's a fair chance you'll wind up with a keyboard with T400-ish flex.

 

Older keyboards made a really fantastic clickety-clack noise...

 

Where can I get a NMB T61 KB?

 

try ebay or marketplace forum.thinkpads.com

 

If I remember right, there was a REALLY good discussion of the different types of keyboards for the Thinkpads (NMB, and two others) and the user went into significant detail on what sets each apart.

I'm almost 100% sure it was on the thinkpadfourms, and the thread was started in like 2007ish. It was one of the best reviews of the three different styled keyboards I've ever read. It boiled down to that most preferred the NMB "better" (even though ALL three are still considered MUCH better than an average laptop keyboard).

But in light of these "new" keyboards, does Lenovo still ship them out within the three different brands, or are these new keyboards all NMB now ?

 

Slightly OT, but --
Lead, do you know what the FRU is on the T61 NMB keyboard? I'm thinking of replacing the keyboard on my T400, and would like to make sure I get the NMB instead of the Chicony. Some of the sellers on Ebay list the part number.

 

it should be in the list

Lenovo Support & downloads - Keyboard service parts - ThinkPad R61, R61i, and T61 (14.1-inch widescreen) here is the official list.

 

I have a end-of-the-model run T500....the keyboard is top-notch....Love it.

I am curious to see/try the new edge keyboard as it has received rave reviews by virtually everyone.

drake

 

The T410 keyboard isn't that bad flex-wise if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, like me, and got one of the machines that was clearly assembled with slightly-too-lenient QA tolerances, there will be a noticeable hollow clacking under certain spots of the keyboard (where the backplate flexes down until it meets the chassis). It's easy to fix if you're willing to spend some time bending the backplate and/or shimming it, but it's still a little annoying to find that they're still relying on manufacturing precision that they just don't have.

Apart from that, I actually like the new keyboard design. The tactile feel is quite different from the T6x feel. It's got less travel than the T6x design, more like that of my T43p's keyboard. The activation is quite crisp, and the activation energy required is substantially less than that of previous keyboards -- I find it quite easy to type quickly and with substantially less effort than on my T6x keyboards.

As far as the "Esc" and "Delete" key changes... well... they're more of a nuisance to me than anything else. Since the T410 is not my only computer, I'm offset by one function key. :/ Oh well... at least they haven't gotten rid of SysRq.

 

How do T400's with the reinforcement back-plate and T400 NMB keyboard compare to using a T61 NMB one?

 

Yes, in regards to the ESC and Delete keys being larger, is it just me, or am I the only one that has NEVER used neither key ??

OK, maybe I used the ESC button 3-4 times in the almost 3 years I've owned my T61. The Delete key, I don't think I've ever used.

I know that people who use thier Thinkpads for a living (ie - doing CAD work, etc. would use them much more often) but who here actually does use the - now bigger - ESC and Delete keys ??

 

the T400 perforated keyboard even with the support bracket still does not perform as well as the solid backplate T61 NMB keyboard.

 

I use the delete button to delete files, to fix mistakes when I'm typing etc.
The Esc button I use rarely though.

 

I use Delete very often (just used it a couple times typing this post, in fact ) Esc, not so much. Maybe once a day, or not even that.

 

delete and ctrl + delete are pressed pretty often on my keyboard.

I like old T61 keyboards much better then new ones from T510 for example.

 

Exactly. On my T500, it's not even close. I have one of the late-rev. ones with the additional supports, and the perforated backplate FRU is absolute garbage compared with the T6x design.

On a related note, the more I use my T410, the more I'm growing to like it. Yes, it definitely has a different feel than the classic "clacky" feel of the T6x keyboard, but it's crisp, firm (after shimming), and consistent -- and those are the three most important characteristics of a keyboard.

As far as the larger keys are concerned: I use both on a regular basis, but I can't say I've ever found the normal size to be lacking. In fact, even on the large keys I only ever end up pressing the same region that would be taken up by the standard-size key cap.

One final word of praise for the new design: the power, volume, mute, and ThinkVantage buttons are all vastly improved over the R6x/T6x-series equivalents. They look much more professional, don't seem anywhere near as "cheap", and feel much firmer to the touch than their predecessors.

 

while i don't necessarily care for the larger escape and delete keys, i do think the newly-designed ThinkPad keyboards are better.

the NMB version of the T400s/410/510 keyboard is built using the same components as the X300.   anyone who enjoys the X300 keyboard should appreciate the new design (assuming they receive an NMB FRU of course).

 

Previously i am a heavy user of Z61 and R400. They come from my office and i use it extensively for work. For short amount of time i use SL400. Now my daily driver is t410.

To me the new keyboard offer refreshment over the old one. I like the bigger Esc and Del key, i think, for some extent, i use that key a lot. I also use Ctrl and Shift extensively.

I agree with some comments and nbr reviewer that the new keyboard need a stronger pressure when typing. And my error per character is a bit higher, though not that significant.

This keyboard have the previous wear and tear resistance. Just for few months of use, my left ultranav, left shift and some keys already show a sign of "shiny" key.

The new keyboard layout shows a strong differentiation between thinkpad and other notebook. From a design point of view i really like it. From usability i think it offers only a small margin.

Pros:
- Bigger DEL and ESC
- New thinkvantage and VOIP oriented buttons
- CAPS with LED

Cons:
- Need stronger pressure to type
- Wear and tear resistance is the same (low) with the previous keyboard

 

Yup, the new keyboards are more comfortable to use. The ESC key is nice, but I really like the bigger delete key. It makes a difference for me since I'm always hunting for the damn thing.

 

While, i like the new keyboard design, the NEW trackpad surfaces do get annoying after extended period of use and the multitouch is extremely inaccurate, making it almost useless.

 

I agree 100% with the multi-touch trackpad being useless.

The one on my X301 is so inaccurate I've only used it probably one or two times, and I was disgusted with it lol

I guess after getting used to Apple's iPhone and how smooth multi-touch gestures are (and by trying out some MBP's at the Apple store), I've been a little spoiled

Still though, nothing can come close to even the crappiest Thinkpad keyboard IMO.

 

what's the keyboard using for x201, do you guys know? i searched and seemed my part says NMB but i dont know what that means. sorry for being ignorant.
i had t61 before and i thought that keyboard fell better than this one though

 

There are typically 3 types of manufacturers making ThinkPad keyboards:

ALPS, Chicony and NMB.

NMB is considered by many to be the best type of keyboard due to it being relatively firm and less noisy. However, it really depends on personal preferences and finger sensitivity.

All X200/x201 keyboards are perforated, but I have not had issues with noticeable flex with any of them. A very pleasant typing experience.

I have used many different ThinkPads over the time and my preference is in the following order:

NMB, ALPS, Chicony

 

so what's the new keyboard? i thought this is similar to t61?
the new keyboard is the chicklet ones on edge or the one on W series?

 

Those one on the T510, W510, T410, T400s, T410s, etc.

 

oh i see! thanks, lead_org
seems no different to me