April Fools

Well, the problem with that is the color gammut, to build in an really high-quality IPS/PVA screen (with 10bit interface), which covers 95% of the color gammut, you have to sacrifice Optimus, so battery-life becomes really short (because the Intel graphic can´t drive an 10bit IPS screen). And that seems to be important for Lenovo.

So, you are willing to get a machine with a keyboard layout that is even more bad than the new ThinkPad layout?

 

For a machine that is desktop replacement, properties of a 12,13,15,17" screen that may be included with it are hardly relevant, whatever they might be (IPS,3D,whatever). Why to use the screen that is just too small, and is a single one, and that is most inconveniently attached to the keyboard at a strange distance and height, if much better and larger and more user-friendly alternatives are available. Especially if there is a dock, or, better yet, something like power+Thunderbolt cable in one ala that coming OneLink connector.

For a machine that is to be mobile, it suddenly matters how much it weights, how much it lives on battery, and whether it has a good keyboard/trackpoint/trackpad/whatever preferred input device is/etc. The screen, if it's of sufficient resolution to fit all, or at least most, of the windows needed while on the go - not so much. Shouldn't be too horrible, and there are TN panels that are just that, and do suffice for quick picture/video editing on the go (pros do adjustments more by numbers, and less by perception anyway). If need to show work to others - you'd probably end up using an external/projector/TV anyway, or the other way around - iPads/tablets/etc give outs. A bunch of people crowding in front of a 15" laptop screen, where the viewing angles matter, is suboptimal no matter of the screen.

There is a lot of people who, given a choice, would want an IPS screen and hi-res one and in the laptop. But whether they are willing to pay for a new laptop, or really just want a bunch of relatively portable external monitors for showing pictures with some CPU in it (like many photographers selling pictures to parents on kids sport competitions), for little money, is a good question. I've seen some of those photographers using dozen or so of older Thinkpads for this, perhaps these were Frankenpads, but I seriously doubt they'd pay 10x$1500 for new laptops with FHD IPS screens for that.

I would probably pay $200-300 more for a better screen in W series, but not at expense of Optimus, or significant sacrifice in battery life, or anything else really. And I, as some others, would pay $50-100 more for getting the 7 rows back as option. The latter is probably even easier for Lenovo, but, alas, apparently not an option, as too few of their customers care.

 

While my rMBP has 0 dings/dents/bends/etc... I agree that ThinkPads are far more rugged. This combined with the fact that most software required for our company is Windows only is why we supply ThinkPads globally at our company. Only IT and a couple upper execs have any MacBooks.

Definitely have to disagree here. Have not had issues with multiple resolutions, color, backlighting or anything else on my MBP, MBAs, or rMBP. Have had many quality issues in color with my T420/T420s laptops though.

 

I played with several rMBPs and they all had glitches, such as screen tearing even during normal browsing (minimize/maximize/scroll). Software is still immature to take full advantage of retina panels, IMHO.

Back on topic: Good call, Lenovo. That's the first smart move after acquiring ThinkPads. Now, if you could put back the IBM logo above "ThinkPad" - would be awesome, lol!

 

1. Your laptop is still recent, wait a couple years.

2. Color accuracy is horrendous on 5 MBPr models I tested. Backlighting is uneven, and backlight bleeding was observed. This is coming from a professional stand point. The screen it self is not built as well as you may think, it's still a cut corners cheapie compared to a dreamcolor 2 IPS.

Your T420's were likely 1/3rd of the cost of a MBPr. Not saying they have great screens, but given the price I don't mind.

I use screens at time for professional graphics design (not so much anymore, since we've cut that service a little). When a customer came with a preexisting logo, "almost the same" didn't cut it.
Colors had to be dead on, and a quality accurate screen was a must.

 

1. I've had others - one is handled by a 4yr old daily (my old MBA). I did have one come with a ding on the bottom which I had Apple fix the day I opened it. Just none from use by me or anyone in my home. But as I said, I agree the ThinkPad is more rugged.
2. The MBPr has 99% sRGB from what I've read. Lots of reviews claim that is great color representation. When calibrated it is a great display. However, print work is not my forte so please correct me on what is the correct measure for print work - not sarcastic or meant to be rude, I'm genuinely interested.

EDIT: Also the screen comparison with the T420 was against all three types of Macs I've had. The MBP baseline model beats out the T420 and both are in the same league for price.

 

I never took the retina display to my calibration hardware so I cannot comment with technical specifications, however I do carry a calibrated M4600 with a TN panel with around .7% deviation in gamma, average backlight spread at what I would estimate to be 80% brightness. The delta values but I believe it was something like .7 to 1.8~ if memory serves me correct.

Compared to the calibrated TN panel of the FHD M4600, it's colors were off by quite a bit. Gamma was off, contrast was off, blacks aren't exactly the best.
For an IPS panel it's not usable in a professional setting for any form of work that requires strict color accuracy, and color reproduction. It's gamut is not that great either. It's performance is similar to a barely above quality TN panel.

 

AUO B156HW01 v4 aka Lenovo 15.6 FHD: AnandTech - MYTHLOGIC Pollux 1400: Clevo's W150HR Tested
retina MBP (does not say which panel, apparently there are at least 2 different ones from LG and Samsung): AnandTech - The next-gen MacBook Pro with Retina Display Review

IMO, any setup where strict color accuracy is achieved by designer relying on his perception, in uncontrolled environment, using a laptop screen as reference, is really a last-resort thing. If color is important - why to use a laptop screen at all? If it's merely nice-to-have, any decent calibrated laptop screen, good TN, or retina, or non-retina IPS, Mac or PC, should get the job done.

 

Pretty crappy results, power7.

Sometimes you don't have a choice but to use laptops to show customers work. It helps to have a calibrated screen. (Hence why my M4600 is calibrated).

I agree most decent screens with calibration will do fine, however when you deal in jobs dealing a few tens of thousands of dollars, explaining to your customer why his traditional red is more of a shade of pink is not acceptable.

Hence why some professionals get the DC2 screen from HP.

 

Yes, it may be not acceptable, but it's still inevitable. With TN screen - explaining that the shade of color is because the customer is too tall when viewing the laptop screen at this particular angle. With glossy IPS - explaining that the strange shadow in the middle of the picture is the customer's own face, and that other thing in the corner is that light fixture. With matte 100 nits carefully calibrated RGBLED laptop screen - explaining why the beautiful photo with popping colors on the customer's iPad looks like muted and faded disaster with yellowish tint. And so on, and so forth.

Logos and company colors are actually not a big deal, as color numbers are documented and easy to precisely match on any screen.

 

Correct, however when a customer doesn't have the colors documented or worse, in the event the logo is being held "ransom" by the last graphic design company it can be problematic.

Anyways, I think this is getting off topic. Point is laptops as you said should be the last option.

 

That's a lot of mumbo-jumbo right there.

Yes, the battery life will suffer, no question about that.

However, there are ways of getting a good IPS LCD without it necessarily utilizing a 10-bit approach.

While HP's layout is just as bad as Lenovo's new one, at least I'll be getting a proper LCD...

 

In keyboard layout "Dumb & Dumber" game they are close now, but Lenovo is hard to beat: HP still has Menu key, and PrintScreen, and Break etc.

TrackPoint is another story, the HP's version is just not the same. Price is yet another, as for the price of 8570w quadcore with K2000 and Dreamcolor ($3000++), one can get W530 with K2000 and FHD, and probably still have enough for a separate 24" DreamColor monitor, or, if precise color reproduction is not extremely critical, 2-3 27" HPs or Ultrasharps.

 

True. However, it can be brought to a close-enough margin with some finagling.

While the above described scenario would make a ton of sense for many people, that's simply not the path I'm interested in taking myself.

 

I rechecked the OP in this thread and think the mild topic drift is likely OK.

So in that vein I have to ask how/if the keyboard of the Panasonic ToughBook is actually better than that of current Lenovo ThinkPad notebooks.

The above question is prompted by your tag of: "Too many ThinkPads, a couple of ToughBooks and a lonely iPad..."

 

ToughBook keyboards leave a lot to be desired in my opinion.

However, one doesn't buy a ToughBook because of its keyboard, but in spite of it.

They are great machines in many other respects.

 

I didn't catch up on this thread, but good news! Lenovo Ideapad laptops are a world apart from ThinkPad's. I really like ThinkPad, and wish my job would let me use one instead of the crap low end 14" Dell they gave me. Already quality issues and I only had the dang thing for less than 9 months, and was new when I got it.

 

wsj has a piece about lenovo today,

"Mr. Yang said, adding that every time he has seen a prototype product, "I just think it's amazing." But when the final device comes out, he said, it isn't as nice-looking as the prototype because cost concerns led the company to reduce the device's quality. He said he expects that to change this year. "

China's Lenovo Aims Higher in U.S. - WSJ.com

 

Mr Yang is very candid regarding Lenovo's product quality concerns. What he says certainly reflects in the new ThinkPad X1 Carbon.

 

In what way?

 

Try this link to get a version of the WSJ article blocked by the paywall in pepper_john's link.

 

I really, really hope that this isn't going to happen to the Helix when it gets released next month. Have a bad feeling it will, which is a shame because the hardware looks and sounds great in previews.