Anyone prefer the new trackpoint buttons in the T440 series over the old normal buttons ?

how much did you pay for your model and what was the spec on it because Im nearly going to buy one even if I have to import it from the states if the prices is right.

Thanks

 

Mine was $943 before tax, shipping was free. My specs are in my sig; the cpu is i7 3520m and screen is HD+ / 1600x900.

 

Thanks. i didnt think to look. might get a used one and just slap a quadcore in even if i did get a i7 3540m inside.

 

So I've had it less than a month and somehow it has gotten louder.
Whenever I click, it makes the regular loud click noise, plus it sounds like a spring is vibrating the palm rest.
Also the left side of the touchpad isn't as flush with palm rest like the right side anymore.
Never buying a Lenovo product again.

 

Is there any chance at all that Lenovo receives poor feedback on this removal of the trackpoint buttons and decides to bring them back on future models? Or are they committed to this change for good regardless of short-term resistance?

I'd like to think that maybe Lenovo would return to dedicated buttons on a future model. Then I could max out the specs and have a good machine for many years while they went on homogenizing the product. It sucks that they waited to bring back good screens only after eliminating the buttons. There wasn't a sweet spot where one could get a great screen, good keyboard and dedicated trackpoint buttons.

 

I'd sooner put my money on a snowball surviving hell...

You got it.

Many of us felt the same way once the ThinkPad keyboard got re-invented, and while there was no shortage of complaints, they kept on "improving" it in the most asinine of directions...so don't hold your hopes up high, if at all...

 

Let's be honest, function was sacrificed for form here. If buttons were inferior, and offered no greater user experience, we'd already been typing on glass keyboards right now. Sadly, I do see it going that direction. Anyone stating that they prefer button-less touchpads do so because they now have no choice in the manner, and associate 'buttons' with 'last gen'. Sorry, it wasn't worth removing ~20 physical buttons from the machine to reduce thickness by 3mm. How many first-gen X1 owners do you hear stating: 'This laptop is great, I just wish it weren't so thick'

 

so glad you verified this. I saw some videos of a dead loud touchpad then others where it appeared silent and worth consideration. as it stand im out from Lenovo. I hope they get less sales snce the new change and research into it to see what they like and didn't like and go from there instead of assuming what people want. im hoping it takes no more than 2 gens of this before they do something about this. however if they persist to keep the style as it is then they must make the integrated buttons more functional so that it feels like it still is separate whilst built in and they need to keep it "SILENT!!!"

 

I hate what lenovo has done to the classic thinkpad design. I hope they wise up and go back to making the laptops we all know and love and stop trying to put form over function like other manufactures have done.

 

My hope would be they make two palm rests, one optimized for stick users and the other for trackpad users, but I don't think it's very like. I could have been very happy with a T440p, but the new stick set up is a no-go for me.

 

E545 recycled the chassis from the E530. Hardly what i'd call a "custom body". Also it can only be had with a terrible 1366x768 display, i'll pass.

>Implies Lenovo lost a customer
>Threatens Lenovo by buying a Lenovo product

genius.jpg

I think that's what Lenovo is trying to do. Market their business brands to a more global scale.

 

Ditto. The T440p would have been a near ideal machine for me if they hadn't screwed up the trackpoint. It's so frustrating to have such a promising machine derailed by one deal-breaking drawback.

 

Just got the W540, my first reaction to the new trackpad/trackpoint "buttons" - ugh *facepalm*
Will see if I manage to make them at least moderately usable after some tinkering. But yeah, ergonomics now are totally screwed up.

 

my bad. what I meant in greater detail is. im not going to give my money to Lenovo buying a new model so they have lost a customer..
when I said id buy a t430p. I mean second hand so my money doesn't go to Lenovo. That be very stupid for me to contradict my statement

 

My sides hurt from that one. But bottom line, the money does go to Lenovo, or it already did. You just bought from someone who bought from Lenovo. That's like saying i bought an iPod at walmart but the profits didn't go to Apple, they went to Walmart.

Seriously, the anti-Lenovo circlejerk is getting old.

 

Nope. Your logic is upside down on this one:

Lenovo already got their money for that T430 and won't be getting anything else from its re-sale. Might actually cost them money to fix it if the machine is still under warranty.

If one buys an iPod at Walmart Apple still gets its share since it's a new product being sold for the first time around...

Well, Lenovo has been successfully alienating the ThinkPad users for a couple of years now, so whether it's getting old or not, they deserve all the vitriol that is being spilled at them.

This is coming from someone who had no problem ripping IBM ten thousand new ones whenever they deserved it, BTW.

 

lol I think you are lost in my translation somewhere because I know you don't seriously believe your own statement that buying a used item from someone results in the money going to the manufacturer.....unless everything one including yourself resells your items/laptops gives the money to the manufacturer you bought it from because that's in effect what your are saying.
but I know you cant think this as that cat pic joke would actually be on you. but I think you taking what I said out of context. When I said I wont be giving my money to Lenovo. that statement is true whether I buy a used laptop from anyone because Lenovo will never see the money from the seller. but I am certainly NOT saying I wouldn't buy a Lenovo product because I said wouldn't give my money to Lenovo, I wont give my money to Lenovo to buy a brand new product on new models which has a horrible trackpad which Lenovo re not used to doing. so unless they U-turn their design, the XX30s are the last models of thinkpad id buy because of its physical buttons. and Id only buy it second hand because I wouldn't spend a load of money for a last gen model.

There really is no comeback so I hope this clears that up for you. If you think you can then enlighten me but as ajkula66 has noticed that your logic is wrong too

 

Hi guys....I am a long time Thinkpad user.....just replaced my T410s with the new T440s. EVERYTHING is an improvement, including the touchpad. Unless you are a touchpad user (the Trackpoint is the reason most of us buy Thinkpads), simply disable the touchpad in the BIOS and then you are in great shape...the Trackpoint will work nicely. The touchpad itself gets quieter over time, as it wears in, and is so much easier to use than the discrete buttons we were used to. It is difficult for most of us to accept change (as we all know, especially us older guys), but Lenovo is obviously dynamic and innovative, and I give them credit for this. Overall, I really like the new T440s....I would have purchased the new X1 Carbon, but think I would have a difficult time accepting the change of the adaptive keyboard (LOL!!). I hope this helps those on the fence. P.S>- my only real complaint is the fingerprints/oil that make the glass touchpad look dirty all the time....nothing seems to prevent this (if anyone has a tip, I'd appreciate posting it).

 

So you feel the non-discrete "buttons" that are integrated into the trackpad actually work better for trackpoint use than the discrete buttons that IBM/Lenovo had perfected over many years? Even the most ardent Lenovo supporters seem to only claim they are satisfactory. You're the first person I've seen who claims they are better. And you don't use the trackpad at all?

 

Yes, I do. I took out my T410s yesterday to transfer some old files to my USB drive....I definitely prefer the new touchpad. The old buttons are clunkier, and only the top ones work when you turn off the touchpad, whereas with the new touchpad the whole pad works. Again, change is hard, and just like in all of life, we hear the complaints more than the complements (as we all well know). Obviously, my opinion, but I hope it helps.

 

Really? http://forum.notebookreview.com/len...ries-over-old-normal-buttons.html#post9515211

Also, there are some users in our German Forum who think the new solution is better...as always there are some who like the change and some who don´t...

 

Exclusive TrackPoint user here. While I don't like the fact that to make new "buttons" usable I have to do much more software tweaking than with old discrete physical buttons, I am certainly intrigued by the patch for evdev driver in Arch that allows me to avoid clicking the pad completely and only apply certain amount of pressure in specific areas for it to register as a click, so with it all the good old functionality of TrackPoint is there. The clicking noise also seems to have become less loud over the half a week that I've been using this new W540 of mine, though it's kinda hard to say for sure.

 

I thought I recalled that your verdict had been that they were as good as the discrete buttons, not better. I didn't catch your earlier post in this thread. But, in all honesty, I tend to discount your feedback somewhat because you appear to feel that Lenovo can do no wrong.

 

glad i am not the only one

 

Although I have just bought a second hand t430 from a private seller because I hate that the t440 and others has no physical buttons but the idea of a patch to make certain areas of the touchpad tap to click intrigues me to consider the possibility in whether it be worth trying it out. because what puts me off most about the touchpad is how noisy it is and accurary of the integrated buttons and I use click a lot to the point where I can easily irritate people that are not bothered by it usually. although I was mainly interested in the e440 because of the 740m inside. I only see this patch to work as good as it sounds on the t440's because it has a glass touchpad which would be fine where as others are just normal material (whatever that is) so id only imagine tapping on glass would work better than plastic in other models.
You would need to verify this because I can live with tapping for buttons but I just hate using the touchpad to scroll the mouse. my 1st laptop and others after then was trackstick for years since 2001. only using my w230st from december is my main go at using touchpad and Im having a bad experience and want performance somewhat close to that in the same form factor size which is the t440p or e440

 

@Hobbes1,
so why do you even search for feedback if you "discount" feedback that does not conform to your own opinion?

I never said anywhere that Lenovo can´t do wrong.

I can specify why I like the new design more than the old design:
- The old buttons always got glossy and slippery, which I hated
- The old buttons are too small, with the new design, I can click anywhere, have a larger target area and the TouchPad is no longer useless like it was before, when it just wasn´t used. Now, I can use the whole Touchpad as a TrackPoint-button
- While the click is a bit louder than the old design, the clicks provide a better feedback, the old buttons have a mushy feel compared to the new design
- Very minor point: It looks more modern, but thats not really important

While not perfect, I think it is better than the old design after "getting used". There is room for improvement: The click-sound could be quieter, the red-stripes could be painted with a different texture so that you can feel them.

Now, feel free to discount my opinion if you want...

 

The way I see it...

Regardless of where one stands on the issue of new TrackPoint design, the change is most certainly drastic enough to warrant testing it before joining the either side of the isle.

As always, it comes down to what trade-offs are palatable to each individual.

Can they deal with the "new" setup in exchange for a vastly superior LCDs on some models?

There is no "one size fits all" answer here. Major changes are always polarizing.

Good luck to everyone still on the fence regarding this issue.

 

I feel like the majority of people who like the new design are people who have never used the trackpoint as their primary cursor navigation and are just chiming in with their newly found experience with it. For us die hard users, we can gauge the step back in useability because we have the experience. I know it sounds snobby but, its pretty much the scenario with almost everything in life.

My best example is this: Imagine you have a group of people who have driven Ferrari's for the last decade, and suddenly they're asked to drive a BMW. What's their opinion going to be? Of course, "You've taken away everything we've come to love from a Ferrari!" Then on the other spectrum, you have Honda Accord drivers that's never fully grown accustomed to driving Ferraris. They're going to say, "I like it this BMW. Sure it's not as fast as the Ferrari, and I don't usually drive fast anyways, so I don't have a problem with this BMW--I have no idea what you guys are complaining about. This is good enough for me so I'm keeping it."

Another example are people who have been working on a fully calibrated QHD screen as graphic designers for so many years. Force them to move back to a FullHD display would naturally raise complaints. Then you have people who upgraded from 720P who are going to marvel at the FullHD screen and wonder why QHD people are being so harsh. And that's the divide that Lenovo hopes for: that there are more Honda Acccord, 720p owners, over Ferrari, QHD users.

Given so many complaints, there has to be some truth in why people are upset. I would never tell a master carpenter that my Home Depot house brand hammer works just as well as his $100 hammer. His carpentry experience makes his reasons better than mine and I can conclude that his wisdom comes from years of actually using the variety of tools at his disposal.

 

Full title: T440p: touchpad "two finger tap" for right click not working + "tap and drag" not working

I'm ok with the new touchpad design as long as I can get 2 additional features:

Two finger tap for right click
Tap and Drag

Both don't work on my T440p.
Both are needed to avoid doing a physical click on the touchpad which moves the mouse position and disturbs the clicking process.

I enabled the ChiralMotion Circular Scroll and One Finger Edge Scrolling and they seem ok for my scrolling needs.
In particular the circular scroll is a pretty nice virtual replacement for a scroll wheel (maybe a little difficult to get it to appear initially).
I'm also on Win8 so i have 2 finger drag to scroll too (but that sometimes resets the page position so I lose my page location -- not nice... )

Back to the Two Finger Tap problem:
I tried the solution from:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad-Y-U-V-Z-and-P-series/Y580-touchpad-two-finger-tap-for-right-cli...
which comes from:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Idea-Windows-based-Tablets-and/two-finger-tap-right-click-not-working/m...

but my registry settings were already set to those values and 2 finger tap still does not work.

For the Tap and Drag problem, I don't see much in other places...

Others have these problems? The T440s does not seem to have this problem.
Anyone know a solution to either one?

 

i prefer the physical trackpoint key of the T400s to T420s (and T410 to T420), the T430/s trackpoint key had an odd shape and were not comfortable. I still have some issue with the new Trackpoint buttons of the T440x generation, and the ergonomic is pretty bad. Personally i prefer the physical buttons rather than this current integrated everything approach. But obviously there are different thoughts out there regarding this.

 

Hmm, even with all that click-less click patches going back to physical buttons on older laptop still feels much more reliable. And I am objectively more productive on the old machine that on the new one, that's bull.

 

Installed new touchpad firmware and here's the result: Re: t440s touchpad right-click bug? - Page 2 - Lenovo Community

 

So, you want to "tap to click" the surface that also controls the mouse position, all without moving the cursor? I too have a dream.

Can OEMs stop taking cues from Apple? No? Well then I guarantee more inconveniences are coming, for the sake of 'slim and sleek'

 

The old X1 had dedicated trackpad buttons and still was 'slim and sleek', it's not about thinness, it's about cutting costs.

 

Where is this about "cutting costs"? Isn´t rubberized glass more expensive than simple plastic?

Not to mention the the TouchPad itself has a much better (and propably expensive) design than the touchpad design of the first X1 Carbon, which was really cheap (hinged design).

 

I just ordered my T440p, but the buttons have me gravely concerned. I've been a die hard thinkpad user for years and absolutely love the trackpoint. I almost always end up disabling the touchpads on my laptops because they always interfere while I'm typing. I'm really miffed that by the time Lenovo finally produces decent displays, they completely muck up the keyboard and mouse. If I could somehow hack a T420 keyboard & buttons on this new laptop, I think I'd be in heaven.

I recall in the olden days, Lenovo supplied an alternate palmrest for the X200/201 series to include a touchpad. If they could do something similar and provide a new palm rest with real buttons for the x40 series laptops, I could almost forgive the redesigned keyboard layout.

 

i don't think the cost factor is an issue here. It is more of a design idea of having less is more concept. Personally, the new TrackPoint is a pain to use, since i constantly switch between the new Thinkpad and the old ThinkPad with the dedicated TrackPoint button.

I want my old TrackPoint buttons.

 

Oh good grief. I like the laptop, I can tolerate the keyboard changes (although they had it perfect with the t420 series, I wish I could get it back) but this lack of buttons is going to be the death of me.

I really like the middle click for pasting in terminals and for opening links in new tabs. But I can't find anywhere to configure the middle click button as a proper 3rd button. It's stuck as a scroll enabling button. This touchpad has scrolling down pat. I can scroll with a single finger on the sides, I can add a little circle motion to keep scrolling, I can scroll with two fingers, and I can scroll with the middle button and the trackpoint. But the only way I can get a middle click function is to enable a three finger touchpad click, which has about a 40% success rate and a 20% catastrophe rate.

A fair percentage of the clicks on the touch pad indicate mouse movement as I click. Sometimes that foils the action, sometimes it moves the mouse just enough that I miss what I was clicking on. In any case, now my every mouse click requires mental thought and careful pressing which is horribly disruptive to my tasks actually getting done. Such an integral task should not be a hardship or something that requires special training to get right consistently. It's pressing a button. All it needs is a good tactile feel and consistent results. They have managed to screw up both of those. I don't know if I can hack something together to give me real buttons, but I'm determined to try. This has to be the most abusive change Lenovo could've forced upon us.

 

I don't mind the middle button part, but dedicated buttons, when done right, are so nice to have. Ie. Thinkpads, nearly all of the HP business laptops I've seen in the last 8 years, etc. Why Lenovo, why remove them?

(Funny side note: at least some of those HPs seem to show the buttons as a separate PS/2 pointing device from the actual trackpad. The F keys for brightness and probably some others also don't work at all in Windows unless you install their software for it - which also adds an OSD.)

 

Use TPMiddle: TPMiddle

Disable the TouchPad in BIOS or in the Driver.

 

I finally got an opportunity yesterday to try a Lenovo with the new trackpad. I found a store that had a Yoga Touch with integrated buttons. I gave it a thorough test and my impressions were mixed. It wasn't as awful as I feared, but it certainly wasn't as good as dedicated buttons. I'm curious if they use the same hardware in the Yoga series as they do in the Thinkpad. The keyboard on the Yoga didn't seem as good as the one on my X230, but it may have been due to the fact that it was a display model.

One problem I had with the buttonless design was with the depth of travel to press down for a click. Instead of a nice shallow press on the old-style buttons, the pad had a deeper travel. It also seemed like you had to press straight down, whereas the dedicated buttons feel like they pivot on a fixed point, so you just have to rock the key backwards instead of pressing directly down. And I also didn't like that there wasn't a good feel for the difference between the middle key (which I use constantly) and the left key. Since it is just one large physical "button", it's not always clear which key your finger was resting upon.

Does anybody know if this is the same trackpad mechanism used in the the ThinkPad series? Does the T series have the same depth of travel configuration as I saw on the Yoga? I might be able to live with the lack of button separation if they reduced the amount of travel needed to press the pad.

 

I didn't have the opportunity to check it in person yet but can you turn off the whole touchpad and use only the buttons?

How compatible it is with Ubuntu and other operating systems?

 

Yes, in Windows this is possible like with all older ThinkPads.

I don´t have any experince with Linux on my T440s, however, I know there are some ways to get it work ok. However, the Synaptics-Linux driver will be updated soon to support the new design: [ANNOUNCE] xf86-input-synaptics 1.7.99.1

 

My old T430 had a few problems and the IT dept decided to switch for a T440 with the new TrackPoint. I have been a TinkPad user since the IBM days, and got used to the TtrackPoint many years ago and haven't looked back since.

Until now, that is. This new versjon is awful! Most of the times when I hit the left "button" nothing happens at all. Then I maybe get the scroll up/down button even when I push the left edge of the TrackPad. It seems to be more or less coincidential what button I get out of the left and middle. Det right one is usually better. Another thing is that the "buttons" are very hard to push down compared to the old ones. Not strange since you now have to push down that entre big plate which of course requires a much stronger spring to be held in position.

The red pointer itself is still great though, and I love the new keyboards too.

I

 

I wish I had returned my T540p after I tried the integrated buttons in the trackpad. At least Lenovo listened to their customer's complaints and they're bringing back the dedicated trackpoint buttons in the upcoming new ThinkPads (X250, T450, T550, W550, etc). Maybe you can get your IT dept to swap your T440 for a T450 after it's released and your company starts buying them. My company got me an X220 back in 2011 so I'm waiting for them to start giving out X250's before I request an upgrade.

 

I just learned that there is a part you can buy on eBay to replace the touchpad with the integrated buttons with a touchpad with 3 physical buttons. Here is a link to the eBay search so you can see the latest ones for sale.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40|R40|R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Thinkpad+three+touchpad&_sop=12

I've been told it's not that difficult to change. I'm wondering if this is the part from the 2015 ThinkPad models or the one from the ThinkPad E545 or a non-oem part.