Anyone prefer the new trackpoint buttons in the T440 series over the old normal buttons ?

I was wondering, anyone find those new button-less, clicky touch-pad that lenovo introduced in the recent T440 and T540 to be better than before, or at-least, equally good ?

If not, what are the alternatives ?

 

I think the new ClickPad is way better than the old solution after using it 3 months.

 

Overall, I like the new set-up better, but there are pluses and minuses. I have an X230 as my main machine and I just picked up a Helix, which appears to have the same click pad as the T440. Unlike IBMthink I only have a couple days of use on it; that said, I can already tell that overall I prefer it.

Right now, I'll still occasionally activate the left click when scrolling the trackpoint, but I can tell that with a couple more hours of use this probably won't happen any longer. The upside for me is that the touchpad is way better (I use both the trackpoint and pad), and just from a tactile sense the new one "feels better" (I know, very subjective). The middle button on my X230's trackpoint have kinda of a squeaky sensation (and sound), whereas the new one feels nice and firm--and quiet.

 

Definitely not. Discrete buttons all the way.

 

I prefer the larger, more responsive trackpad, but dislike the new click action. However, that's less of a big deal for me since I tend to be a tap-to-click kinda person and don't use the trackpoint much anymore. So from my perspective it's a huge improvement, but I can understand that clickers are less thrilled.

If Lenovo wants to do away with buttons they should at least fix the crummy click action of the pad. It's more of a clack, the travel is just a bit too much, and it doesn't feel solid enough when it's depressed, so I find it trickier than it should be to make click-hold-move actions, for example.

Mine has also developed an annoying rattle. I can tap it fairly hard and it sounds slightly loose, even though it isn't. I know it's firmly attached to the palmrest (just had a tech take that off so I checked) so it must be the mechanism underneath rattling around. Overall just a big rectangle of cheapness in the middle of the palm rest. Lenovo really should have put some kinda of damping in the mechanism to make it feel and sound better.

 

@pipspeak,
this clicking sound is not consistent over all new ThinkPads. See:
Lenovo ThinkPad T440s Trackpad sound comparision - YouTube

There are several factors to consider:
- The material: Glass on the T440s/X1 Carbon and some other models vs. Mylar on T440p/T540p/X240/T440/L-Series
- Different size and travel: The Yoga has a smaller trackpad with less travel ( Thinkpad Yoga Trackpad Motion - YouTube), the Helix also has a clickpad with less travel
- Differences in manufacturing/perhaps different parts for the same model

 

I haven't used the discrete buttons much (my dad has a T420, so I'll try that out), but I feel that they are somewhat better than the integrated buttons for clicking The travel is a bit too much and sort of has less feedback than the old buttons.

The touchpad feels much better, however.

 

The OP asked about the trackpoint buttons (or lack there of) not the click/touchpad right? My answer is the physical buttpns are better. Particularly for right clicking.However I knew this before I bought the machine so I have a mouse for when I am openibg alot of tabs or at home.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

who buys a thinkpad to use the touchpad anyways lol, buttons are far better

 

I basically feel similar to pipspeak. I would definitely prefer dedicated buttons, and the amount of travel needed when using the trackpoint is WAY too high, especially for the middle click (which leads to needing to do multiple middle clicks, etc, which is rather annoying. That and the fact that middle click registering as an honest to god middle click is hard to configure in the current versions of the setpoint software - I hacked the registry, and middle click still only opens tabs in firefox, not opera.) I would just prefer clear dedicated buttons with less travel.

However, the quality of the trackpad is excellent, and I find myself using it more and more (even to be honest at times when I'd rather use the trackpoint). I don't get though why they didn't just leave the dedicated buttons and shorten the trackpad, since the button zones aren't actually multi-use. The middle click zone ONLY works when you're using the trackpoint. Otherwise, that whole area is just treated as a left click, which seems to defeat the purpose of having multiply useful buttons. However, the gestures to do left and right click (i.e. one or two fingers) work pretty well, though the 3 finger middle click is a bit more problematic. Especially on this FHD screen, though, the gesture for pinch zoom is nice when a website appears as being WAY too tiny.

 

I prefer the old TrackPoint buttons myself. The T440s has an excellent Touchpad but if you want to use the TrackPoint and it's "virtual" buttons, it is not as accurate and intuitive as having a physical button. What's even worse, is the "clank" sound when you depress the buttons. It doesn't sound solid or crisp. The pressing action feels very "clicky" like a toy and not like a precision instrument if that makes sense.

 

^^^^^^

This.

All efforts streamlined to improve the (previously questionable if not outright lousy) touchpad experience, trackpoint users - at least a good portion of them - be damned. Combined with Lenovo's newly-found love for hi-res IPS panels, you can now see what the CEO was talking about when he was saying that they were going to take Apple head-on a year ago...

Lenovo proclaims PC victory, re-orgs to take on Apple

So why would anyone be surprised with them taking an "extra" step with the new Carbon...but that's a whole another topic altogether.

My $0.02 only...

 

I like it. I personally don't have problems with it besides the travel being a bit too much.

FWIW this is my first time ever using a trackpoint, so I don't have to untrain the old trackpoint.

 

It appears that Lenovo has updated the trackpoint drivers on the new Carbon so now you can tap to click when using the trackpoint. Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon Haswell First Look at CES 2014 - YouTube Could this solve the annoying clicking sound problem?

 

It has potential but is not quite there.

The touchpad is unquestionably better, but they made numerous minor mistakes that together seriously hamper use of the trackpoint.

My biggest problem (aside from feel/fatigue) is that there is no way to middle click (open a new tab) when using the trackpoint on the new system. Clicking the middle button should be a middle click, and holding the middle button should drag-scroll.

 

I like the new trackpoint and dont miss the buttons. Just wish there were more options for the trackpad in the bios.

 

There's a registry hack to solve this, actually. In fact, looking around in the registry, I think it might be possible to hack the button zones too if you're clever, and don't mind spending a bit of time on the problem.

Middle-click with ThinkPad's Synaptics Touchpad | johnbruer.com

Note that the change gets undone when you update the ultranav drivers, which is also a PITA.

I still find the size and sensitivity of the middle click area needs work. Even if my fingers are still ON the dots I get a left/right click sometimes. I just don't have time to fight with the registry on this.

 

I actually kind of want both behaviors, where it uses the default scrolling functionality but a quick click acts as a middle mouse button.

 

That's exactly what I wanted too. I used TPMiddle on my T410s but it didn't work with the new virtual Trackpoint buttons.

I modified the program and added support for virtual buttons. If you're interested in trying it, my version is here: TPMiddle + vbtn Mod

 

There must be a reason that computer mouses still have real buttons and I can't really imagine using a sensor based one... (tap instead real click feel)

This "we know better" bs and trend to make it a thing is disappointing... if not annoying.

 

This is perfect and amazing. Words cannot describe how much this improves my laptop.

 

I just noticed, the new ThinkPad E545 has old/old style dedicated trackpoint buttons... this is just ridiculous or... no words.

 

This elimination of the trackpoint buttons is the only reason I don't already have a T440p. I only use the trackpoint and have no desire to switch to the trackpad. I was unhappy that they removed them but I at least had hoped that the implementation of the soft buttons or whatever they're called would be up to high ThinkPad standards. However, this thread doesn't give me that impression.

I'd love to try this new setup first-hand to see if I could live with it but there doesn't seem to be a single store within 50 miles that carries the Thinkpad line of Lenovo laptops. Unless Lenovo reconsiders this move away from discrete buttons it may be the end of the line for me with ThinkPads after 15 years.

 

I wonder if you've ever used an external trackpad like the Logitec T650? You can have the buttons, I'll take the trackpad....along with Lenovo's new integrated track pad.

I don't know why people are so upset about innovation. There's a lot of stuff on the market--if you don't like it, buy something--or stick with an older Thinkpad. It's not like there have been huge advances since Sandy Bridge.

That said, most people who've actually used the new pad for an extended period of time seem to either like it or are ambivalent. Most of the hate comes from internet warriors with no or limited real experience with it, which is of course no surprise.

 

The new design has the "middle" button you hold for scrolling + the trackpoint, right?

 

I fail to see innovation, apple had this for years, it's more like "me too" + "let's pi$$ off our fan base, because we can". But if you like it, good for you!

PS: Next time you want to tell me what to buy, please be more specific... otherwise don't bother.

 

Umm...I'm not telling you what to buy. I don't care what you buy? I'm simply pointing out that people who've actually used the new integrated buttons extensively don't have the visceral reaction of those with limited or no experience with them. I'm sure that some do prefer the old ones, some prefer the new ones, and some don't notice a big difference.

Meanwhile, you're on some ridiculous diatribe about how a company is intentionally trying to alienate its customers. Like I said, if you don't like it, look for something that better suits your needs, don't get mad about it. Pretty simple.

 

I don't have to use new trackpoint system to know that real buttons cannot be replaced with sensor/tap/touch, hence the example with pc mouse with real buttons... Time will tell if all these "innovations" were good ideas.

 

Um...OK. I'm sure you know better than I how well it works, even though I'm actually using it... This is, after all, the internet.

 

Exactly! So, are you using trackpoint at all or trackpad is enough? I read people end up using only trackpad...

For me was enough to make a conclusion based on:
- Lenovo Thinkpad t440 review incl new trackpoint review - YouTube Is yours as loud as this one?
- I have a mbp at my disposal and use it often, including (shockingly) famous apple's trackpad, which is nice for web browsing...
- I use daily an usb thinkpad keyboard for my desktop pc, including trackpoint...and I know why I like trackpoint with buttons...

Anyway, why do you even care if I'm mad or not on lenovo? Are you them, or them are you or you are they ?! If you don't, leave me alone with my rant... maybe it's all I do all day!

 

FWIF I have been using my t440p for about three weeks now and the trackpoint has become more natural. I did make a lot of changes to the gestures and middle click/scroll behaviors as well.

I use the touchpad and trackpoint equally now. On my old t410s I used the trackpoint exclusively. I do not feel that my productivity has suffered with the new system. The poor ergonomics of the new trackpoint is offset by having a significantly better touchpad.

Lenovo clearly went for form over function in this design, but it is still usable.
Lenovo really should have done some more testing and created a better revision of the trackpoint though. If the clowns they call engineers had used it for 5 seconds they would have realized a few small changes would have made it far better.

 

My T61p had a system board failure at the end of the year so I picked up an L540 to replace it.
The new Trackpoint is awful. No middle click? Terrible travel/unresponsiveness issues. Sometimes it will take me 3 or 4 clicks to get a left click to register. Plus it is extremely loud.
I don't use the Touchpad. I turn it off because whenever I type my thumb will drag the cursor all over the place.
It is just the icing on a bunch of dumb design changes including no Thinklight, no latches, no back/forward buttons, or separate volume buttons.

 

But are you actually primarily a TrackPoint user or a touchpad user? See, some ThinkPad users even have the touchpad completely disabled in BIOS because they use trackpoint exclusively, just like i do, and I've heard reports that on new ThinkPads while the option in BIOS is still there it doesn't really disable the touchpad, it's still active. And the tactile feedback is not as pronounced and clear as to which button you're actually clicking or holding. Also, new trackpoints are pain in the to configure in Linux to work correctly, it appears. I haven't received my W540 yet so I'll reserve the judgement, but I cannot lie and say I'm not concerned that in their chase for "innovation" Lenovo is abandoning important pieces of professionals-oriented functionality for the sake of either gimmicks (the adaptive keyboard crap on X1C) or apple-like laymen consumer-oriented design (giant- "clickpad").

 

I am a TrackPoint only user, with the TrackPad disabled in the BIOS, and all functionality of the TouchPad is disabled, except for two finger scrolling and gestures in Windows. Could be different with Linux, don´t know about that, I only use Windows.

I think while the clicking-sound is a bit louder, the tactile feedback is better with the new TouchPad. The older buttons feel a bit mushy compared to the new integrated buttons.

It is pretty easy to differentiate between the different button zones, because you have these small bumps on the integrated middle button: Left from the small bumbs = left-click, on the small bumps = middle-click/scrolling, right of the small bumps = right-click.

 

Might be a matter of time until someone offers "old school bumps" as a sticker for the touchpad.

I will try out the T440s in the next weeks. My T420s with it's old school Trackpad must be worth something for conservative Thinkpad Users.

 

Do you guys know what store carries any of the think pad with the new track point so I can try it before even considering Lenovo for my next purchase.

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I'm primarily a trackpoint user, probably 80-90% of the time, but I do find utility in the touchpad as well--and I find the new one much more usable than the old one. I understand that some only use the trackpoint, but personally I think it's worth learning to use a touchpad correctly as well. I was previously a trackpoint-only user, but during the half-dozen times my T61 was in for repair, I got used to using a touchpad on a MBP. Bottom line, I think they're both useful, but I mostly use the trackpoint.

Just from a tactile sense, I prefer the trackpoint "buttons" on my Helix (note: I don't know how similar this is the T440--it looks the same, but it may feel a little different). It took a few days to get used to, but to my hands if just feels better. Not a huge difference, but I prefer it.

 

The only store I can think of that would have a display model is B&H.

 

Unfortunately, the Lenovo website is useless for finding such a store, since their dealer search include all sellers of any Lenovo line as well as repair shops. They have no way to identify those dealers who carry the ThinkPad line. When I searched the only thing I could do was call every nearby company on the list and ask them individually. I quickly found that none of them carried the ThinkPad class machines, and many were only repair facilities and not actual resellers.

 

As I said, I have my concerns, but I'll reserve the final judgement until I actually receive the W540 I ordered.

 

Knew I wouldn't like it, but pulled the trigger on the Thinkpad Yoga anyway. It is getting better after a few days. I dislike the keyboard even more.

Anyone with the Yoga have any luck with the modded TPMiddle or the registry hacks to get the middle button to be the right click? Neither worked for me.

 

I would prefer to have the old buttons still, but I think that there may be an issue with clearance under the new slim screen (along with lack of the taller "cat's tongue" trackpoint cap, which I also prefer). My previous laptops were: X200T (trackpoint + pen) and X31 (trackpoint only). I found the setup on those easy to scroll with trackpoint + buttons, and didn't care that they didn't have a trackpad. However, I don't really mind the new setup. Things change... I don't really scroll with the trackpoint any more. I pretty much just use if for fine cursor movement (eg., hitting checkboxes or small icons). For that, I use the "tap", rather than clicking the whole pad down. Scrolling now works pretty well with the trackpad, or using touch.

In any case, I always prefer to use a BT mouse, if possible. And since my T440s is a touch model, click+drag operations (like dragging windows around) are pretty convenient using touch. But if someone is dead set on doing everything with the trackpoint only, it seems a little less convenient than before.

 

I have to disagree with IBMThink on this one - his account of the trackpoint was one reason I wasn't worried, but I really have to say that my experience has not been as positive. I bought a Thinkpad BECAUSE I really think the trackpoint is the most efficient pointing device, and because I really enjoyed using it on my T60 for the last 7 years. However, the trackpoint without dedicated buttons is really frustrating to use for several reasons:
1) The areas for the middle click, once you've monkeyed around enough to even get it working, isn't entirely concident with the area covered by the dots. There's a very strict sweet spot, you have to push HARDER on that spot than on the other parts of the pad, and it's really not nearly as responsive (maybe the software?) - I sometimes find myself clicking several times before it seems to register. I don't find the software settings for the trackpoint to be particularly comprehensive, it's all geared towards the touch pad.

2) The sounds is loud. It sounds like I'm angrily attacking my computer when I'm just clicking - twice as loud probably as typing. As I said, if I'm in the other room while my wife is sleeping, I feel like I have to use the trackpad and not the trackpoint and clicks.

The trackpad IS infinitely better than it was on the T60 (sorry, that's my primary point of comparison). I actually don't have any troubles accidentally hitting it while typing. However, I really have to say that the integrated buttons have fundamentally changed how I use the pointing devices, and mean that I'm much more likely to mess with carrying around my bluetooth mouse, which is annoying since Windows has a horrible bluetooth interface which is itself a major pain in the rear. And again, I don't think the stupid thing makes any sense - the button areas can't be used by both the trackpoint and the trackpad, so why even bother integrating the two. If you can't use the middle click using the trackpad (three fingers apparently works at random, and doesn't see to open/close tabs in browsers, maybe I need to hack the registry again for that), why in god's name did they design it that way?

Otherwise, the T440s is a pretty good computer that clearly has some major driver issues still (the wireless connection going crazy, the fingerprint reader seems schizo - sometimes it's on, sometimes it's not, no idea why, sleep still seems really dodgy) and the LG screen kind of blows whenever working with anything with a white background. If I had an AUO, I'd rate it 4 stars, with the LG 3.5.

 

In my view, they did it simply because it looks sleeker.

They've prioritized form over function, which is the exact opposite of how ThinkPads used to be designed. It's an attempt to make sure their laptops look as sleek as all those other laptops in the market that don't offer a trackpoint, while offering a token effort to maintain trackpoint functionality for legacy users.

 

the clicking sound is very annoying, I was forced to buy an external mouse
here is an example video somebody posted : Lenovo ThinkPad T440s Trackpad sound comparision - YouTube

 

The integrated trackpoint buttons was one of the big reasons I decided on an older model Carbon X1 Touch over the Thinkpad Yoga (the other reason was the larger physical screen). I would often rest my left thumb on the left click, and my right thumb on the middle or right button - this would often confuse the integrated buttons into thinking I did a different click. Even though I would press with my left thumb, I think it was detecting that something was touching one of the other buttons and trigger that instead. Also, it was loud enough to not want to click it when in a quiet room with other people.

Altogether it became less useful, and as many have said, I began to use the touchpad a lot more when using the Yoga. Since I had both the X1 and the Yoga simultaneously, I went back and forth between them and ended up preferring the X1. I think they found the perfect compromise in the X1, since the trackpoint is pretty much the same and the trackpad is superb.

I think it would be great if Lenovo could make the whole trackpad section modular, so that it could be swapped out. Then they could still advertise with pictures of the "prettier" one, but give trackpoint users the choice to get physical buttons. But giving configuration options goes against the Apple philosophy, doesn't it?

 

i think lenovo thinkads had the best business model laptops out toshiba dell and hp overall in terms of build. noise. and performance. but i not talking looks. but what i love about the business laptops is that they had trackpoint and dedicated buttons besides the track pad. i loved that the lapto was very silent even under full load unlike the of companies and not very hot and the mouse buttons to click was literally inaudible when clicking them since they was a soft spongy click.
Now its all in one. its horrbile and very loud and this is a massive problem for me that likes to click alot who has a wife that has this "condition" (there is a proper word for it lol) where they can get very annoyed easily by certain things and me clicking away loads is one of them and i could get away with this on these business laptop. i was looking forward to using the t440p with the 730m or the edge e440 with the 740m.
now me with a 765m gtx downgrading to that means that it IS that bad for me to click away so was prepared to take a performance hit.

i cant move to dell because they dont have a 14 inch model with decent gpu. toshiba has a z40 with 730m but you literally cant get one unless you in usa. so im left with hp which has the probook 640 which has full haswell cpu and 8750m which i cant find a model anywhere which the gpu in.vtheres a low powered version elitebook 840 with 8750m and the workstation version zbook 14 with m4100. and they are just too expensive.
Alternatively i could go to a t430 with nvs 5400/630m gt but would really prefer more power. so lenovo lost a customer because of this. i hope they change back in the not so far future. i cant see why they could keep things as it was.

 

I decided against a t440p recently due to the lack of physical TrackPoint buttons and snagged a new-unopened t430s in the outlet instead, to slowly phase out my slow x301. I could never rely on the "new" TrackPoint I don't think. At work 95% of my time is spent scrolling through 500-1000 page PDF documents and TIF files. For this reason alone that middle scroll button + physical buttons are so important to me. I can't waste time dragging / scrolling with finger swipes on a trackpad, or fidgeting and finding the sweet spots of in integrated TrackPoint (all with my non-dominant left hand). I write notes with my right hand while scrolling with my left and the physical buttons make things so efficient. Looks like I'll be hanging onto the 430s for many years.

 

oct, I hadn't noticed the old style dedicated trackpoint buttons on the ThinkPad E545 until I read your post and I keep looking at the Thinkpad E series page waiting for the E540 to be released in the U.S. Why would Lenovo offer dedicated buttons on the E545 but not on any of the other new ThinkPads? What's even stranger is that the upcoming ThinkPad E540 with the Intel Haswell processors (the E545 has AMD processors) has the new style trackpoint buttons integrated in the trackpad. You would think it would be cheaper for Lenovo to manufacture a common case for both the E545 and E540. You can see from the pics on the U.K. E540 page that it has the new style trackpoint buttons.

ThinkPad E540 | Small Business Laptop Optimized for Windows 8 | | Lenovo (UK)

 

E545 team did not get "scratch those buttons" memo in time!