An Aluminum Thinkpad...

EDIT: Aluminum is only used as an example. This is a metal/alloy vs plastic/composite debate.

This has probably been done before (I used a search but couldn't find a similar topic), but I'd like to see if there is an interest for aluminum/metal Thinkpads. There are many reasons to create an aluminum encased ultraportable (and yes, of course it will be black only):

Pros:
1. Looks - dark, near black brushed aluminum is downright salivating.
2. Less is more - notebooks are able to be thinner and lighter
3. Heat dissipation - aluminum conducts heat very well

Cons:
1. Cost
2. Durability

It seems that many companies are equipping their top-tier notebooks with aluminum and are forgoing cheap plastics and even composites to dissipate heat. Don't get me wrong, I like the Thinkpad black box. But I think that it needs a little updating to modern standards and hardware. The Sony S for example and MacBook Air use aluminum to create powerful packages in small sizes - something that apparently cannot be done using traditional Thinkpad plastics/composites.

The most powerful Thinkpad ultraportable is 0.8" thick and has a dual core Intel i7 with HD3000. Compare that with the aluminum clad Sony SA - 0.9", discrete graphics, optical drive, two 9.5mm HDDs at similar weight.

I'm not suggesting getting rid of the Thinkpad as we know it, durable, abuse proof Thinkpads have their place in life. I'm just asking whether people here would like to see a differing offering from Lenovo. Some questions to ponder:

Are plastic Thinkpads slim and light enough already?
Who wants to pay extra for a fully loaded ultraportable?
How 'abuse-proof' does your laptop need to be?
If you have no need for powerful GPUs, would you consider a cooler laptop?
Does Al actually lower system temps considerably?
How long will the traditional plastic Thinkpad last, is it showing its age?

I can imagine some people saying that this is an outrage (remember when the chiclet and colored Thinkpads debuted?), but that's fine by me. I want to hear all of your opinions.

 

Interesting topic;

Owning an aluminum chassis notebook (Latitude 13) and using various other notebooks (Macbook Pro 13-17, HP's various aluminum chassis) I can tell you Lenovo would never change that for their ThinkPad lineup. For one that would drive up prices and whole new chassis would need to be designed. They are also fingerprint magnets (I can't stand fingerprints, always have a microfiber cloth on hand). Plus given Apple's unibody design I think is rather poor for durability and heat dissipation, I doubt Lenovo would ever copy that. I for one am careful with my notebooks but I think aluminum scratches too easy and dents easily vs plastic.

 

Another con is weight. And, although metal is nice for heat dissipation, I would prefer if a laptop didn't dissipate heat onto my lap or my wrists

One more con is wireless reception--the MacBook and Samsung Series 9, among other all-metal laptops, face issues with the placement of their antennas to get the maximum wireless reception. Often, the metal hinders signal strength.

HP's magnesium alloy is probably a better choice than aluminum for durability. I wouldn't mind a metal Thinkpad, if the general aesthetics are kept, and something is done to address the other points I mentioned.

 

Oh no, please don't.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a metal finished ThinkPad (didn't they do one with the Z61t before?). Holding a HP Probook we got in recently felt aesthetically pleasing with its brushed metal finish compared to typical moulded plastic of the ThinkPad! Though its unlikely given Think purists will probably start a riot...

 

"Aluminum" is very generic term, there are so many different kinds

If they do it properly with the right materials, a full metal case could be quite nice. Especially if the finish is chosen for durability and not press photos before fingers touch it.

If they just try to clone apple, it will be terrible. Even with all the "expert design" macs have shortcomings (like hotplate macbook pros) and made some very heavy handed form-over-function choices. The alloy they use is not particularly strong either.

 

You mind elaborating? Not a fan of Apple I presume?

@Hearst, yes, the Z61t was metal (titanium to be exact), but that feature only extended to the outside lid cover.

@Aluminum, if Lenovo makes a metal Thinkpad, I also hope that it won't be the likes of Apple. The body would have to be serviceable friendly and resist bending.

 

A small part of the Thinkpad appeal to me was that it isn't meant to be fashionable (though it is somewhat compelling as a throwback).

Also, I used to own a PowerBook. Dropped it twice, and, accordingly, dented it twice. Not interested in a metal body.

 

If they ever do implement this, for goodness sakes Lenovo don't make it denty and bendy like the macbooks!
(denty and bendy, I couldn't think of any other words to describe it )

 

If you mean a metallic finish then that's one thing.

Thinkpads, especially the more portable ones, are already being made out of metal. The X220 chassis is a magnesium alloy, the X1 is magnesium and aluminum, and the T420s is magnesium alloy and carbon-reinforced plastic. I think the soft touch coating is a bit misleading...

EDIT: The T420/T520/W520 aren't exactly slouches either, they are made up of some combination of carbon fiber, glass fiber, and carbon fiber/glass fiber-reinforced plastic. Carbon and glass fiber both have strength-to-weight ratios much higher than that of a metal.

 

To be honest i'm not a fan of the rubber coating on the ThinkPad lids, you have to be careful not to scuff the thing from scratches and take care while cleaning to avoid certain chemicals tarnishing it which to me is just a bit of a pain.

 

I am too much of a traditionalist...I like my ThinkPads black and monolithic. Plus, I am not sure how well the metal body would stand up to my usage patterns.

 

Hrmm I totally forgot there was a metallic Z61t, I did a data backup for a customer from it. Thought it looked similar to mine.

Still like that traditional black ThinkPad look.

 

You bring up a good point, I wonder if a 'unrubberized' Thinkpad could look great. Carbon-fiber can be finished to jewel-like quality, the same goes for fiber-glass.

Unpainted X1:


I only created this thread due to the fact that it seems that the current method of construction limits performance. Lenovo can't seem to put a full-fledge GPU into their ultraportables despite the large market for one. Heck, Lenovo even admitted appealing to the multimedia crowd. So the question becomes: Do other factors other than building material play a role in limiting Thinkpads? What about the Roll-cage? IMHO, I think that a well-designed metal roll-cage could be seamlessly integrated into a metal chassis.

Sure, composites are strong, but they nonetheless act as insulators when compared to metals. A pro of aluminum for example is that it dissipates heat. It's one of the selling points of large Al towers. Al is light as well and has a pretty decent cost/weight ratio (can you imagine a desktop case made out of carbon fibre? It would probably cost $1000). Again, I didn't create this thread as a "looks" game, although looks are important to a laptop, I'm just guessing that the thinnest, most powerful ultraportables are not covered in plastics.

 

They have supposedly managed to put a quad core into the X1 (or is this rumor incorrect?). I would rather see a discrete GPU in place of that, but I don't think they need to move to metal coverings for heat dissipation purposes.

Aluminium dents and bends, thus I do not think this is a good trade off especially for ultraportables that tend to take a lot of abuse.

on the topic of appearances, I like the traditional Thinkpad look, but appearances are appearances. If it still looks professional, it's appearances are fine by me.

 

And people switch to SSDs to keep their palmrest from being warmed up.

 

Anyone check out the new Dell XPS 15z? I gave that one some serious consideration. It's a slick machine, but I doubt it will ever be as durable as a T series.

 

I don't know if method of construction is the sole reason for the X1 and X220 being the way they are but I do agree they lack some major features. I would say the resolution in the X1 by far is the biggest disappointment and that seems like an issue independent of heating and cooling.

And to stay on topic I love the way the current Thinkpads look.

 

that would be a contradiction...the most power ultraportable is not the thinnest ultraportable.

the effectiveness of aluminum as a better thermal conductor when used in laptops is largely inconsequential and overhyped. take for example the MBA...it is notoriously bad in overheating issues when under load despite having an Al body.

plastics might crack more readily, but they also shrug off forces which would otherwise dent an Al case.

i'll stick with plastic, thank you.

 

Touche, filmbuff, touche...

I wonder how much the heat conduction affect really is. It would be an interesting experiment for someone with the resources. If you can show experimental data that supports your claim, that would be great. Heck, I don't even have proper support myself.

I never said that Al bodies would make a laptop impervious to heat exhaustion. It's not surprising that a 17mm thick Core 2 Duo laptop overheats. What would be interesting to see is how well the Air performs if a plastic chassis replaced its metal one.

While, on topic, is there any metal that resists being dented and is light? Mag alloys are stronger than pure Al for example (they use these in Thinkpads right?). Metal treatments can alter properties too: Anodized Type III Al can be fairly scratch resistant (same coating used on mil-speced knives) and gives the Al a really nice black unpainted look to it. My point is that aluminum doesn't have to be the material used, and even if it is, it can be treated for improvements. A large benefit of metals is the ability to do all sorts of things to it to make it better. Weapons for example can be nickel coated or even hard chromed. I should have clarified that earlier. We are talking about metals/alloys vs plastics/composites.

 

A flat piece of aluminum doesn't really help spread heat. It does a better job than plastic, certainly, but is not going to be effective for doing any actual cooling, since it has very little surface area. My mom's Macbook Pro definitely has "hotspots" on the bottom when the power demands are heavy. After a quick image search on google, it looks like the bottom isn't even meant to dissipate heat; no components make contact with it, and there is no sign of thermal interface material anywhere.

Of course if the bottom were a giant flat heatpipe/vapor chamber meant to dissipate heat, that would be a different story. I think I'd be okay with giving up some durability for that. They could give it an extra layer of aluminum to reinforce or something..

 

I agree that the way the cooling system is engineered determines how stable a laptop is. Not case material. But in a confined environment, I really wonder what the temp difference between a plastic and Al case is (0.5 degrees C? 2 degrees C? 0 degrees?). Too bad that there are no studies involving ultraportable case designs. Does every degree count? Going back to what I said earlier, we need experimental data... If someone would kindly donate a MBA maybe?

Apple uses Al because it's relatively cheap, light, strong and is more heat friendly than plastics. They created arguably the thinnest laptop (Dell Adamo and Samsung 9 also use Al). There's a trend here. Maybe heating isn't the issue; but something definitely is.

 

I really like the magnesium alloy in the thinkpads and really would be a shame to lose it.
I know everybody says the thinkpads look like tanks but that is because they are built not to fall apart. My T500 is close to 3 years old and still is in damn good condition.
Im willing to pay extra for fully loaded ultraportable, something with decent sized SSD.
Lenovo has plenty of options for people who want slimmer lighter laptops. I dont see the advantage in going lighter than the x220, you make too many sacrifices structurally to get that weight.

Screen options are very important and this is what Lenovo needs to concentrate on. Many current generation Lenovo's have been hammered because of the screens. I know IPS screens may be out of the question for all thinkpads, but better quality screens will be a great advance.

 

I like alloys, usually they give better resistance and tensile strength than pure metals, I wouldnt mind a magnesium based thinkpad, it doesnt need to be shinny, but it could well be anodized black.

However this laptop is going into the SMB line or one man company line, I would dig that. Specially if it came with a gpu I would buy it without second thoughts

 

I don't see anything wrong here. My main gripe with Lenovo is that they refuse to put a 'real' GPU into an ultra-portable. Maybe it was a bit presumptive to blame the building material of the case, but I'm calling it based on how it looks. Sure, I did state that I would like a 0.9" X220 with a discrete graphics option, but I still don't see why it is so impossible (see Sony's SA offering).
And before anyone states that "business professionals don't need decent graphics power." I know for a fact that there is a large market for one. If Lenovo made sacrifices due to incorporating full-fledge Core i7 processors for those that need it, I don't understand why they can't cater to those that need better graphics instead.

I think everyone on the forums (actually the universe, save Lenovo of course) will agree with you here. More options (better options) wouldn't kill anyone. But this topic is really beating the dead horse.

 

I think Lenovo will have good GPU's in ultraportables in a generation or two. They've been adding consumerish features to laptops as of late and a good GPU outside a workstation is definitely one of those consumerish features. I think the E420s's 6630M is a sign of things to come hopefully.

 

X series is an ultraportable. It is aimed at business users, not gamers. Putting a discrete graphics into X woul mean a compromise because it means that without discrete graphics, notebook could be made even thinner/lighter... I guess it also makes more heating problems. Also, hardly any serious gamer would consider 12" ultraportable as his main gaming platform - 12" is just too tiny for gaming IMHO. All in all, I think that not putting discrete graphics into X series is justified.

As for metal chassis. I have Z61t with titanium lid and it feels immensely strong. I've never worried about it's screen - which is quite different from X220 whose lid feels much less protective. I actually think that this was quite good compromise having only lid made of metal. Titanium has also it's downside unfortunately, my (second hand) z61t has a lot of unpleasantly looking stains on its lid - it looks like titanium reacts easily with some acids/alkalis. Strength doesn't seem to be compromised though.

 

For some people, yes. To me, it's a little odd to find people demanding faster processors. I mean a i3 is enough for 90% of the road warriors out there right? Now people are rooting for a quad core processor in the ultraportable X1? What are these people doing in the office? Get my drift? Some people need the power, I just think that the X series is lacking in graphics and already has too much CPU. I'm sure that many also believe the same thing and would rather have a more powerful GPU than a quad core processor. Lenovo just needs to make options.

"Gaming" on a 12" laptop is more than possible. That's partially why Lenovo invented the Ultrabase 3 series. I find it appealing to have a portable laptop that can run a couple of monitors if need be. What's wrong with that? It's actually something that Lenovo designed the X220 to do.

Anyways, let's get back on topic. This is looking too much like my Sony vs X1 thread...

 

By far the biggest buyers of ThinkPads are corporate and government types. They don't care a lick about gaming, which is why that'll never happen.

As for an aluminum ThinkPad, I'd vote against it. One of the great things about ThinkPad design is its timelessness. If you look at a ThinkPad from 10 years ago, it's a bit heavier and thicker, but pretty much looks the same. Kind like a good suit never goes out of style, but you can't have that if you are constantly changing it.

 

My vote is to build it like my t400 is. Solid as a tank and I can use it on my lap without fear or sweat or burns. While there is plastic on my t400, its still solid and tough.

 

I would say aluminum is rather a negative when it comes to conducting heat in a laptop chassie. You dont want the outer shell of a laptop to be hot. Heat should be expelled via hot air through the vents. You would rather try to insulate that from the rest of the laptop, so that the palm rest, keyboard and bottom plate stays cool to the touch. I have no professional experience in this area, but this is how I imagine the designers think.

 

I would prefer metal over plastics due to squeeking and creaking noises laptops tend to make when you pick them up, also, rubbery coating is nice on ThinkPads but it wears off very fast and that sucks, especially around corners, it looks fugly at first
Not sure if metal always means stronger tho.

 

Pros:
1. Looks - dark, near black brushed aluminum is downright salivating.
It would look intriguing

2. Less is more - notebooks are able to be thinner and lighter
No comment

3. Heat dissipation - aluminum conducts heat very well
DISAGREE, DISAGREE, DISAGREE!!!!
ok.... well... I agree that it conducts heat, but this is a VERY UNDESIRABLE TRAIT in the body of your laptop. The number 1 complaint I hear from all my friends that use Mac Books is that they get hot. It makes is uncomfortable to use when in contact with your body. You do want great heat dissipation but you need to control where the heat is dissipated. Into the body of the machine is bad, into the air via good heat sinking is good. For this reason, plastic is more disireable.


Cons:
1. Cost
Agree

2. Durability
Agree

I think that a better option would be for Lenovo to improve it's build quality and use higher quality plastics. I'm not a fan of Aluminum for a body. Heat issues, durability issues..... no thanks.

 

Well, I what I wrote is "gaming" (in quotes). Do corporate users have absolutely no need for better GPUs? Do they even care about using the Ultrabase? Ultrabase + decent GPU = logical move. Do the majority of corporate users need a Core i7 Quad core in their ultraportable as well? No, but at least Lenovo will give them that option. I'm just asking for a better rounded laptop. GPUs aren't only used for gaming anyways. They are very important to work/study as well.

Only 2% of college students use a Lenovo, a third use Macs, and the percentage of Macs is increasing at a drastic rate. I wonder why that is the case? Lenovo should focus on students as well as business users because these (the students) are the people that make up the next generation. In 5-10 years, I'm willing to bet that Apple will take a larger chuck of the business market. Apple users will want to stay with an Apple.

The X220/T caters to students as well doesn't it? I'm sure it would do a better job if it had a decent GPU. A lot of students have laptops within the 12"-14" range. It's the only thing that fits in those flip out desk trays. So by eliminating the inclusion of a good GPU, you're giving up a very lucrative market to your competitor, and a future generation of people.

Well, if we take things to the extreme, the 'in-style' always changes. Suits were never always the same and I'm sure (a long time from now), they will change. A company that is unwilling to change and take some risk will never last. I don't need to talk about IBM.

 

Yeah, I agree because the engineering of the 2009-2010 MBP was horrible as the aluminum unibody heated up to 100 C with a i7. However if the Thinkpad was made of carbon fibre and and solid steel (magnesium as the rollcage and titanium casing), I would support that.

You are maybe right as a light computer user who games, but Thinkpads are made for work. If a MBP crashes, your work maybe destroyed and you lose time (go to the local Apple Store - Genius Bar and it gets shipped to Apple HQ and back to you) which you could have made a prime in trading. Thinkpads are known for the ThinkVantage button (restores your computer to a workable state) and a grand community which helps you and needs help.

 

So if you need a Corei7 you are working, but if you need a decent GPU you aren't?

Maybe for you that makes sense, but as student who takes CSE, it would be nice to have a laptop that will fit on my tiny desk and run some rudimentary 3D programs.

 

I meant that those systems that don't bottleneck (learn some new tech terms) because of the mediocre CPU would slow the performance of the entire system even if you had the best GPU such as the Nvidia Quadro Optimus 5010.

 

For college students, I think the majority of gaming is done on consoles. The majority of PC gaming is with games that the integrated GPU can handle just fine. I also somehow doubt that a dedicated GPU is needed to run programs that a student would be using for work. Afterall, some of the dedicated GPUs really aren't much better than the integrated. Don't forget Ivy Bridge GPUs are supposed to be quite a bit better than the Sandy Bridge ones.

I also doubt that ultraportables are as popular as you claim, I know tons of people lugging 15-17 inch laptops around because consumer grade 15" laptops are cheap and well equipped.

The reason people (college students let's say) buy Macs is not for the dedicated graphics, nor is it for the "superior" Mac OSX. They buy it because they think it looks cool, or at least that's what all my friends who want macs want them for. Besides, 13" macbook pro just dropped its dedicated graphics didn't it?

 

@AESdecryption

Can you clarify that a little more? How can a non-bottleneck be responsible for slowing the system? Did I miss something that you posted earlier?

 

Laptop Stats:
Amazing Computer Sales Statistics (infographic)

Hey, this is average numbers (ie not limited to college), but it is the closest that I got.

 

Well... uh... Yes.

There are a very few exceptions to this, but for the most part if you have an ultra-portable and expect to use it for gaming or other graphics-intensive tasks you're short-sighted, optimistic, or a fool.

Honestly I see this whole X series GPU issue a little like whining that a Miata has a low towing capacity.

Back on topic, aluminium would be a horrible idea. It looks great, sure, but you'd better hope you never drop, dent, ding, or warp that case... I travel quite a bit, and I have sincere doubts that an aluminium laptop would hold up anywhere near as well as my ThinkPads have.

I suppose Lenovo could use something about as light and more durable -- maybe a magnesium alloy of some sort -- for their X series machines.

< checks tabook >

Oh. Well imagine that.

 

A couple of years ago, I would completely agree. But tech moves fast. Other companies have put dedicated GPUs in, so it's not like I'm asking for the impossible (a Miata that tows the Titanic lol).

There's been good talk about the subject. Aluminum is bad. I know that mag alloy is used, but does that equate to only top and bottom? What about the sides or palm rest? How thick is the 'rubber paint'? I wonder what an all Mag alloy computer would look like and how it would hold up. I'd probably enjoy touching some metal on a Thinkpad instead of plastic.

 

I don't really see any stats regarding what sizes people tend to buy...I see more laptops within 1 inch of 15" than anything else. The larger package makes it cheaper and easier to include more power, and people see the value and go for it.

I disagree about touching bare metal, touching a Macbook Pro starts unpleasantly cold. After your hand warms it up, any kind of sweat is easy to see on the case and is quite disgusting.

That said I'm all up for nicer asethetics as long as it doesn't compromise function much, although I don't want a poser notebook for the Apple s.

 

No, it's possible -- just not very likely to happen. Lenovo doesn't cater to the students/gamer crowd with the ThinkPad, which is pretty much the only reason to add a dedicated GPU to the X series.

The sides are usually CFRP/GFRP. The coating is usually fairly thin -- but it serves a purpose. Slick, polished metal looks awesome in stores, but it's pretty poor if you're trying to hold onto a notebook computer while, say, sprinting through an airport in a rush to your gate.

 

You wrote that if you have an i7, then you are working. To prove that wrong, I explained that without an i7 you would bottle neck your system. The reason why I stated that was because you think any 1.68GHz dual core processor would allow you to play Crysis on ultra high settings with 16x anti-aliasing while you had the best GPU? ∴ the i7 does not necessarily mean that you are working .

 

I mainly said that in jest. It was meant to be a retort to the "Thinkpads are for work" statement. The problem is that we both have different definitions for work.

My point was that it is possible use a decent GPU for work, not play. Stating that "Thinkpads are for work" doesn't automatically justify Lenovo's decision to leave customers without a 'powerful' GPU option when there are more than enough CPU options. As it is, the GPU is the bottleneck. Lots of desktops nowdays don't even have the power of the i7, but easily overpower the HD 3000.

It's like driving a car; you have the option to choose 3 engine options; 300hp, 400hp, 500hp, but you only have one choice of body style (coupe for example). Sure, you don't need 5 seats to drive, but it is convenient in some situations. I'd rather limit the pointless 500hp and go with a sedan option.

 

Have you looked at all the Thinkpads? You'd consider the Nvidia Quadro 2000M as inferior? It has 192 CUDA cores w/ 2 GB VRAM which surpasses the many current gaming mobile Nvidia GPUs in terms of clock rate and games that can be played.

 

I view Thinkpads as a contemporary look as opposed to non fashionable. I don't view it as a throwback either.

I lightweight metal casing would be something I would be interested in.

 

I'm only talking about the X-series offering, not even the T, let alone W's.