Am I the only one who doesn't like the T61 keyboard? And can I change it?

I've had some time to get used to my new T61p and for the most part I like it a lot. Blah blah, it's generally pretty nice. When I read reviews of this machine, everyone raved about how great the Thinkpad keyboard is. "Legendary thinkpad keyboard", yada yada.

But after about a month of using it daily, sometimes 12hrs a day, the keyboard is still driving me crazy. The Ctrl key is in the wrong place, which means all my keyboard shortcuts are off now. I rely a lot on kb shortcuts to get things done quickly, and they are long memorized for a normal windows keyboard with Ctrl in the corner. I'm sure by now I must have many thousands of hours behind a normal keyboard whose layout has been generally standardized for years, but for some stupid reason, some notebook manufacturers put the Fn key there. Now this would actually be fine as I could get used to it and I somewhat have, having been mostly using the laptop lately. But now when I go on another computer with a normal keyboard, like... any of my other ones, or any of my clients', my hands feel all awkward and I have to adjust again, and it's a serious pain.

Also, the back and forward nav keys are ridiculous. They are big, don't allow you to easily index to find the arrow keys, and are easy to hit and accidentally navigate at the wrong time (such as while composing a long forum post). I am now aware that they can be disabled, but even so, they make the arrow keys hard to find without looking, and I don't like looking down if I can avoid it - it slows me down. So I ripped the nav keys off there. I can still use the key function by pushing the little white rubber button that is still there. It looks bad, but whatever. I ripped the Windows key off there too, never used that for anything except accidentally popping myself out of games from time to time.

Next, but more minor, the F-keys (F1, etc) are placed weirdly as well, so again, my hands are all off. Another thing with those and the keys at the top right, is that the tops of them don't have much of a gap between rows, which makes it difficult to pick out the right key without looking/thinking. This I will likely get totally used to. There is also not enough of a gap at the top of the top arrow key.

And those keys at the upper right could be more easily accessed if they were arranged at the end of the keyboard the way they are on my old Dell. This is totally personal preference, I realize, but note that there is at least 1/2"+ of usable space on each side of the keyboard where keys could have gone, that would allow me to use those keys without moving my palms away from where they go.

I know this is all whining, but I'm hoping it can provoke someone into telling me how I might be able to remap the keys or something, or at least admitting that they hate the Fn key placement too. I may receive a replacement kb from Lenovo because my U key beeps sometimes and acts strangely, so I was thinking maybe I would see if I could solder small wire on the circuit traces under the Fn and Ctrl keys in order to switch them. I would have a spare keyboard to mutilate, so it wouldn't be a big deal if I messed it up. Has anyone ever done this? Or does there happen to be an alternate keyboard available? (Very slim chance I know, but who knows.)

I can't be the only one to resort to drastic measures to avoid awkwardness with keyboards. Like I said, I like the computer and I don't want to try to replace it (shopping for a notebook is a nightmare IMO) so I'd rather just fix the one I have.

Thanks and sorry for the rant.

P.s. the touchpad is way too small and those buttons at the bottom are too easy to hit with the fly of my jeans. I'm getting used to it though.

 

First of all, disable the touchpad and get use to the trackpoint. Logically, the trackpoint is more comfortable, faster, and more accurate than the touchpad because you don't have to remove your hands from the keyboard allowing faster movement from typing to mouse moving.

Second of all, many people have complained about the Fn and the Ctrl key placements, heck, even I don't like them that much but you get used to it. You can't change it through software, not to my knowledge anyways. The Fn key isn't really a key. It's hardwired into the BIOS. An example of this is if you enable StickyKeys and press and hold down the Fn key, it doesn't do anything because it's not really a key. Get it?

Third of all, you can get rid of keyboard beeps in device manager under hidden devices. There's a device called "Beep" that you stop, then disable, then restart. Still though, your U key shouldn't be beeping, get it replaced.

Fourth, I don't know how bad your motor skills are but I have no problem finding the arrow keys accurately without hitting the navigation keys. You rush too much.

Fifth, what was the point of mentioning the Windows Key?; every laptop keyboard has one. Do you rip that key off every laptop?

Lastly, you get use to it, trust me. And why are you ripping keys off?? That's a little extreme for me. If you have a problem with the Fn and Ctrl, how about glueing them both together? Since you seem to resort to such drastic measures, try that, I believe the Ctrl overrides the Fn.

 

1. Yeah, I should get used to the trackpoint. I've never liked them much but that is an idea, I guess.

3. I know about the Beep service but on occasion it also doesn't work when it beeps. I am on the phone with them right now about getting a new keyboard.

4. Good for you. My motor skills are fine thanks, but on occasion I am in a hurry or doing a lot of moving around with the arrow keys when editing text, like in a forum composition window. Accidentally hitting the large "back" key instead of the smaller (?!) left arrow key can erase your entire message.

5. I was on a roll and was talking about keys that I don't want. Yes, I rip it off every laptop and every regular keyboard I have.

I'm "ripping" keys off because that's the only solution that works. They actually pop right off there, you know, and you can snap them back on. It doesn't break anything.

Gluing Fn and Ctrl together would not work.

 

hp allows to swap fn and ctrl keys in bios, strange, that lenovo does not...

 

I share your feeling about the placement of the left Ctrl key. I have had my T61 for about three weeks and I still haven't gotten used to it. I wish there was a way to swap them. But past experience suggests that eventually I will get used to it--I have used quite a few different keyboards and they all have their quirks. Unlike you, I am delighted by the forward and back nav keys. I never had them on my Dell laptops and I find them very convenient.

Regards,
Richard

 

Re the nav keys, alt-left/right arrow does the same thing on most browsers, and I'm used to that. I can see why people would like them though, having had them on some of my mice.

Re HP: I wonder if this could be incorporated into a BIOS update if I begged enough. Somehow I doubt that. I pulled the KB tonight and it looks pretty solidly constructed, a big plate under the circuit board itself. (Last one I pulled out of a laptop had traces visible) So I don't know if I would be able to do the soldering thing at all. :/

 

I dont think Ive ever heard someone complain so much about a keyboard.

 

So did you type all that on the T61 keyboard? lol

 

Good. I said I was whining. But you have to understand, for the amount and length of time I use my laptop (almost all of the keys on my old Dell are very shiny now, and I wore through the paint on the palm rest areas), I was hoping I could get something that is just right, and this continues to bug me.

Yes. It's legendary.

 

there is a way to switch the ctrl and alt key...that may solve your problems?

 

Was that a typo or do you really know how to do this? Please share it, if so.

Edit: Ooops, sorry. You were talking about the alt key. The thing that some of us find irritating is the position of the Fn key.

 

nope..not a typo..there is a way..ill figure it out when i get home and post back

edit: now that i think about it..you go to ctrl panel..then to keyboard..and it is one of those options

 

The location of the FN key bothers me too.

I think I have a chicony keyboard and I'm not crazy about the feel.

Secondly the keys are spaced too far apart. They are designed for a man's hands and finger sizes. This means that a woman is doing far more hand movement than she needs to. I find that the fastest keyboard I've encountered is the really cheap Dell keyboard. It has small spacing between keys and for reason my typing is far faster with one of those than any other keyboard.

 

Fortunately, i got the nmb and i love it. it is truly awesome. Regardign the spacing of the keys, that is unfortunate renee. However, it more resembles an desktop kb

 

I actually love the thinkpad keyboard more than any other keyboards. It means the layout of the Ctrl key and some other keys on the other keyboards look bad to me.

 

I love the location of the Fn key...everything you complained about are things i like...haha.

 

"Regardign the spacing of the keys, that is unfortunate renee. However, it more resembles an desktop kb"

You're right but even on my desktop key the keys are smaller.

I wonder how I could get an NMB keyboard?

 

perhaps request one through warranty saying yours is having problems and specifiy that you want a nmb...be careful though, lenovo has been known to just rebrand chicony's as nmb's...do a search and you will find out about the issue

basically, they just stuck a nmb sticker right on over the chicony...the only real way to tell is the blue pads underneith the keys

 

Yeah far too many times I hit Fn-F4 and put my computer to sleep accidentally when trying to close tabs in Firefox. Somewhat annoying, but possible to get used to the layout if you exercise some control for a while. The keys on my last NMB keyboard also rattled kinda too much so I'm not even sure if it's the "best" anymore. My friend's T43's NMB keyboard was solid as hell.

 

I have a Chicony keyboard and it's totally solid. It's like I haven't even broken it in yet.

 

The program Autohotkey allows one to change around the keyboard. It's a very nice program; is not a commercial program; but it has a certain learning curve.

Also, unfortunately, the Fn key is one of the few keys it can't directly change with other keys. Nevertheless, according to the reports of some people, something on the Thinkpad keyboard can be achieved even with the Fn key. For example, someone had an autohotkey "script" that let the Fn key act as itself if one pressed down other function keys with it, but if it was simply pressed and released, the script then waited for a letter command, and then if one pressed C or V, it executed executed Ctrl-that key. Presumably it could be extended to work with any other letter as well, and not just C or V. However, I don't know which Thinkpad this was tried out with, and even if the general idea works with other Thinkpads, the number "163" might have to be changed.

A lot of people use autohotkey, and they seem to like helping each other with scripts, so if you pursue that option, you might end up with a lot of help.


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Excerpt from:
http://www.ashbaughonline.com/2006/08/12/thinkpad-fn-ctrl-key/

14. MarkS Says:
February 9th, 2007 at 7:45 am

What a hassle. I cut and paste constantly. I tried using the free AutoHotKey utility which can map the function key to an extent. The following script will map the “FN then C” and “FN then V” to be Ctrl+C and Ctrl+v. However, you must RELEASE the function key prior to hitting the “C” or “V”. I’m hoping I can now remap my stubborn brain to remember to let go of that misplaced function key prior to hitting the C or V.

~SC163 up::
; map the function key to cut and paste
keystowatch=c,v
Input, OneKey, T2 L1,,%keystowatch%
if (errorlevel == “Match”
Send {CTRL Down}%OneKey%{CTRL Up}
return

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