A journo bagging Thinkpads for all the wrong reasons

Lenovo ThinkPad 520: Review | Delimiter

do you think what the writer said about the Thinkpads is fair? Personally, i think the writer doesn't have a clue about what he is writing about.

 

Bahahaha he lost all credit when he said there were better business laptop offerings from Apple.

He rips ThinkPad too much, perhaps he is an Elitebook user.

 

Anyone feel like hopping on the Trollmobile?

 

"In an age where DVI is fairly much standard in the market, the T520 comes with a VGA out socket on its left-hand side."

lol.

 

Yeah I had a good laugh at that too. Haven't seen DVI on a laptop. XD

 

Hehe...that is actually a big lie from him, Macbooks are not built for being used in the field, it's built for standing in a showroom for looks and not being used.

 

I guess he doesn't know many network admins use them for accessing equipment.

 

"you’ll find a grainy-feeling trackpad, surrounded by five! buttons. We don’t know what you would even use that many buttons for" lol - maybe you should consider getting another job.

its amusing how much this article screams "i'm an apple fan boy"

 

Yeah and he writes "the fact that there was a hinge at all — in an age when many laptops simply use a magnetic lock — was our first indication that this laptop was going to be something less than modern."

Well, many of us prefer the old school design which is proven and durable.

 

"The in-build DVD drive can burn DVDs and CDs as well as read them"

WOW i didnt know this laptop could also read DVDs!

 

The journalist is being torn apart in the comments section. At least he's responding to the criticism.

 

Gee, imagine that, a journalist making stupid mistakes. Ever think it's because he wants to drum up interest? It's easy to draw attention to yourself by badmouthing something. Certainly a lot easier than writing accurately.

 

"a mouse toggle which we haven’t seen anyone use in a decade"

What's a mouse toggle? (God, I hope he doesn't mean the trackpoint)

"Lenovo’s T520 is a decently specced business-focused laptop which performs well for daily use but comes in a weighty, bulky and buggy form factor which suffers from poor build quality"

Makes you wonder, did he review the T520 without unboxing it?

 

if you read his previous review of Macbook Pro, you would know that he have used MBP for some period now. For some reason i just don't believe he has that much experience with the Thinkpads, at least not as much as he said he has.

 

Ah, I wondered why we were getting so many people to the Lenovo T520 review. Hi everyone, I'm Renai, the publisher of Delimiter and the journalist concerned who you have all been bagging

Firstly I wanted to say thanks for the criticism of the review. As you might guess if you look around Delimiter, I like to foster healthy debate in the comments.

Secondly, I do have a fair degree of experience with ThinkPads; as I have stated several times in the comments after the review, my preferred vendors are usually Lenovo and Apple when it comes to laptops, for quality reasons. I made a few small mistakes in the review (and yes, I couldn't remember the name of the TrackPoint), but I stand by the review in general.

I'm not a n00b, I'm a former systems administrator myself and I worked in the IT industry and used a ThinkPad for a number of years. I speak with IT managers on a daily basis and am aware of the issues around why you would want a VGA port on a laptop, for example -- you wouldn't believe how many readers still believe a serial port is necessary!

I should note one thing further.

A number of people responding to my review have posted comments which do not constitute constructive criticism, but are simply vitriol offensively directed at me. Our policy on Delimiter is very clear -- anything is up for debate, but you can't just post comments insulting the author of an article. Keep it polite, and I won't have a problem with it

Any problems, just email me directly at [email protected] or post a comment on the site.

Cheers!

Renai

 

Firstly, thanks for coming back and converse with us, there are not too many instances where the journos would interact with their readers in such a meaningful way.

I think people have given you compliments about how you remained cool, despite the various comments posted on the website. So kudo for that.

I don't think people are questioning your qualifications, but rather your personal experiences with Thinkpads. I read your MBP review, it seemed more levelled than your T520 review (and it was a balanced review, which is quite rare since many people would either have a love or hate relationship with MBP, and most would comment accordingly).

However, regarding your arguments you put forward in the review, this is what i have problem with:

-You do know that most Business grade laptops still use the vga ports and have a RJ11 port right? Which you did not mention in your article, which seems kind of odd.

-Also, Dell Latitudes and HP Elitebooks also have 5 buttons combo you refer to.

Finally Lenovo also have to cater to the global market, they can't really make a different laptop model for each market segment, this means they usually keep their legacy ports longer than consumer laptops (this is what most business laptops do). This allows the corporate customers to have proper time to upgrade and make contingency plans.

 

Have you ever heard of anyone complaining about the plug that powers the laptop become defective or loosen over time? It may be bulky by your standard, but its by far the best I've seen. Tough, sturdy and does the job every time. You could get a fancy magnetic mbp's plug but too bad the cord length is only 4ft long. Extra extension card in the bag anyone?

Sure the build quality is not like what it was back when IBM ran things, but you should comment that thinkpads don't cost $3000-4000. With everything taken into consideration, many like myself think that the T520 is still a solid pro-grade laptop that is made to work.

 

If you knew all of this stuff, then why exactly did you point it out in the review? Just wonderin'

 

Maybe taking into account a target audience that isn't us?

Its like how most review of Thinkpads don't point out how awesome having a VGA port is and just mention the existence of one, because they aren't aimed to help corporate IT departments decide purchases. We have a review that hates on the VGA port, because its target audience would rather the VGA port disappear.

 

no wonder, it is an Australian tech site. I rather read Cnet.com.au

 

Parts of this are definitely true, and I'd rather strive to keep things clean and healthy on the debate side. However, I do have a few questions as to the conclusions you came to in your review.

Firstly, about the display latches. To the best of my knowledge ThinkPads have a clamshell design to the display lid and the base of the notebook, which help reinforce it when dropped and reduces flex when carried while closed. I can see where this would necessitate the need for latches, to make sure the notebook stays closed in the event of a drop. From personal experience this has done its job fairly well. The T500 I'm typing this on suffered a drop of about 2.5m while in its case; one of the latches were broken and the display suffered some dead pixels but the machine itself was otherwise okay. I don't think a latchless design would have helped, and could possibly hurt in a drop without a protective case. What is your take on this? Is this simply a form versus function take, or is there truly no legitimate need for a clamshell design in a notebook?

I'm also curious as to why the Trackpoint should be done away with. There aren't any current ThinkPad offerings which do not include a touchpad, and while I find that I dislike touchpads and really like Trackpoints if there's enough space in the design why couldn't there be options for both? Now, since I don't have any experience with the 'bumpy' touchpads I can't comment there and could see why the textured surface could be a turn-off for some. The lack of a Trackpoint will keep me from buying a touchpad-only machine as a daily workhorse, which is a reason why for all its muscle my G73 gets relegated to being carted around my house with my Logitech G7 practically married to it.

Finally, about the port selection: if you were in charge of the port layout of the T520, what would you change about it? I do understand that in the corporate world there is still a heavy prevalence of VGA projectors for presentations, for instance. Digital video output can be handled by the DisplayPort, and unlike my T500 the T520 supports audio out so with a DP to HDMI cable you're in business when connecting to an HDTV, for instance. As far as the 56k modem goes, I'll personally admit that I haven't used dialup in eight years and have no need for it, but there are areas of the world where broadband or even mobile service aren't widely available and the only option for connectivity is to use dialup.

Therein lies the crux of the issue: Lenovo designs ThinkPads to the specifications of its most likely buyers, usually medium to large corporations which have pretty exacting requirements for these things. I wouldn't be surprised that they keep the modem option going at the request of one or two large clients, for example. As much as I like these systems as an average end user, there's no getting around the fact these are systems meant for the large corporate clients which are Lenovo's bread and butter. They really aren't extremely interested in keeping up with the consumer set, although some models(the X1 comes to mind here) are likely catering to the young professional who is looking for a personal notebook to also do their business with.

Either way I'm curious to see your take on this.

 

MBPs are well-built & great laptops though.

 

They are great and have a QC, however I would not like to service it or go rough on it either.

I think there author of the post fail to understand what makes a good business notebook. He is looking at the laptop using the consumer's criteria, which I could see why the laptop have these flaw, however the T520 being a business notebook it is one of the best if not the best(other than the aspect ratio).

 

You claim to have been a sysadmin but clearly you miss a lot of the reasons why a Thinkpad is a lot more useful to a sysadmin. Mainly support.

The power cord you deride is a lot more durable than the fragile ones on the MBP (the wire insulation tears out of the plug).

The VGA connector is standard on just about anything ever used in a presentation. And you can't easily adapt from an HDMI or DisplayPort to a VGA without a fairly expensive adapter. Here the user is offered a choice of outputs, how is this bad?

As others have stated, a locking lid helps make it more secure and durable.

What's with calling a DVD bulky? Just because it's not a slot-loading type?

You do realize the number of buttons is to provide functionality for being able to use both the touchpad AND the trackpoint, don't you? Here the users are offered a choice of input devices. As opposed to being forced to use only one.

On one hand you deride it's performance, and then you call it solidly powered, which is it?

Clearly you prefer using your MPB, and that's your choice. But to call this a review of the 520 is inaccurate, at best. And I don't even own a 520.

 

Overall think you're looking for a flashy consumer-grade laptop rather than a true work horse. You're looking for something that will impress the crowd (backlit, slot load dvd, magnetic plug, latchless design, etc). Drop a MBR a few meters off the ground and it's game over. Spill a little water and it's also game over.

 

This reminds me of:
YouTube - ‪Lenovo ThinkPad X1 laptop gets dropped from ceiling‬‏

Dropping a Thinkpad from the ceiling

Um, depending on the market you work it, a serial port can be a required feature. Many manufacturing plants use serial ports extensively for connecting to robots, assembly and CNC equipment.

Just like the modem, some "legacy" items are required still.

 

And Lenovo has removed the modem from the W520 so they are in fact starting to take away legacy devices that are little used.

 

I would add that they are also useful to get dumps from servers or direct login to the console in the datacenter. Sometimes you just need to do it.

 

Same with the T420s. Had to add a USB->Modem adapter to my pack of tools, right next to the USB->Serial adapter. Thankfully I don't need a DP->VGA adapter... yet.

 

I wouldn't consider them well built as you can't even use them in the field as the whole chassis is not made for roughness.

Also try spill some coffee on the keyboard and the MBP will short circuit as there are no water channels inside.

Apple make toys, not products you can use as a corporate customer.

 

Hi Renai,

First off, thanks for coming here to explain your review. Not many journalists try to connect with their readers this way, and it doesn't go unnoticed. I appreciate it (as I'm sure do others.)

Now I tend not to be a terribly reserved person when it comes to business and tech, so I'll be blunt here: your review is pretty poor. It lacks substance, offers little content not easily found elsewhere, and is at best misleading and at worst inaccurate on a number of counts.

To start with, your wording is pretty clearly loaded. You open with this:

That kinda sets the tone for the article, no? When I read something like that, I know that the author is going to come down hard on one side or the other. I didn't have to wonder which side you were on for long though, as you followed up with this:

Perfectionists will note that the MacBook *never* featured a traditional latch -- ever since 2006 the design has used a magnetic one. Assuming that you're referring to the MacBook Pro, the answer is January 6th, 2009. That was when the last MacBook Pro to use the previous non-"unibody" design was replaced with a "unibody" (and thus latchless) design.

Now I could just be a stickler, but when someone says "quite a few years now" I don't think "two and a half".

Do you see how your language seems just a little biased?

It may indeed feel that way. However, compared to the 15-inch MacBook Pro (which does seem to be the benchmark we're using here), it is actually lighter by 0.02 kg. Saying it "feels to large and weighty to slip into a laptop bag" might give the impression that it's heavier than comparable machines. It's not.

As far as dimensions are concerned, here are the numbers (W x D x H):

Code:

MacBook Pro 15-inch:	364 mm x 249 mm x 24.1 mm	[1]
ThinkPad T520:		373 mm x 245 mm x 31.8-35.6 mm	[2]

Now I suppose that the extra 9 mm of width and 7-11 mm of height could be a make or break thing... but personally I don't think that the numbers match the prose.

I also notice that you didn't compare it to other laptops with similar screen sizes. Let's do that now:

Code:

Dell E5520:		388 mm x 251 mm x 30.2-33.2 mm	[3]
Toshiba L755:		379 mm x 249 mm x 27.6-37.5 mm	[4]
Acer Aspire AS5750G:	381 mm x 254 mm x 33.2 mm	[5]

[1] Apple - MacBook Pro - Technical specifications of the 15-inch model.
[2] http://shop.lenovo.com/us/ww/pdf/t420_t520_datasheet.pdf
[3] Dell Latitude E5520 Details | Dell
[4] http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/satellite_L755-S5216.pdf
[5] AS5750G-6496 | Product Model

In the above context, the T520 really doesn't seem like an outlier. Now you might think that the T520 is too bulky for you. I have no problem with that -- in fact, I tend to agree. I traveled internationally a fair bit with a 15.4" laptop, and it certainly did feel quite bulky at the time. But as a journalist, and *especially* as a product reviewer, it is your job to make clear what is merely your personal preference and what is not. Your complaints about the T520's size are clearly the former, since (as you can see from the above), its dimensions are in no way unusual for a laptop with such a screen size.

Now it would be unjust for me to lambast your wording without attempting to do better, so here's what I'd say:

Moving on, this passage stuck out:

This can be disabled. In fact, the instructions for disabling it fit in less space than your complaint. I can't really think of a good reason to mention this. I mean... if I were reviewing a machine, and if the beep bothered me *that* much, I'd say something like this:

That communicates your dissatisfaction with the default -- not a bad thing, since user experience is an important part of the review -- while simultaneously conveying that it's not a major problem for users as it can be disabled.

Describing the power socket as bulky is rather amusing, as it is exceptionally close in size to those of many, many other laptops. Even the MagSafe port on Apple machines is wider than the modern ThinkPad socket, although it is a fair bit narrower. Again, your word choice seems... biased. Your mouse button complaint has been mentioned by other posters at this point, so I'll leave that one be.

Even your overall conclusions seem inconsistent:

Those two statements seem to be at odds with one another. Either its performance was unsatisfactory, or it performed very well. There is one way that both of your statements can be factually correct: the laptop performed very well in your day-to-day usage, and you were dissatisfied with that fact.

Right, so it's stuff like this that's made others question your technical knowledge. What legacy hardware is holding the machine back? You disliked some aspects of the machine's chassis design, but as far as the actual functional hardware goes, about the only legacy hardware you even mentioned was the modem and the VGA port. The latter's utility has been discussed already (not everyone has a shiny new Apple Cinema display -- some of us need to hook up to projectors, etc. that only have VGA), while the former is considerably more useful than you might imagine when traveling through areas which do not yet have a WiFi-enabled Starbucks on every corner. (Hell, there are large chunks of the US in which dial-up is your only option! Coincidentally, these are also the areas where 3G coverage is often spotty at best...)

When reading your review, I got the impression that you set out with the opinion that ThinkPads were boring and "old-school", and were going to try your hardest to prove that to your readers. You don't really do that though. You've slathered your review with complaints about how "archaic" the machine is with its "legacy" features, yet the only concrete examples you can point to are an optional modem and a VGA port -- one of which you somewhat acknowledged as a useful feature (though not in your review). You trash its performance (in some places) while failing to provide any meaningful commentary on *what* failed to perform well. You talk about a "giant oversized plug", yet fail to mention (or are unaware of) how its dimensions compare to those used on competing machines. In short, I think you make a number of unsupported assertions and voice numerous vague complaints, all of which serve to make your review more inflammatory than informative.

I'm glad you stand by your review. That alone sets you apart from many journalists out there; I'm of a mind that people should be willing to own up to and defend what they write, and I admire that characteristic in others. Nevertheless, I urge you to remember the advice of other users here when writing your next review. Everyone here is obviously quite biased an vocal -- but there are a large number of knowledgeable, experienced notebook users here, and I think you'd do well to at least consider their feedback.

-Rob

 

Well if you actually been a systems administrator you would also know that the serial port is used on a daily basis by network engineers to get into console for configuration tasks if you want fast access locally.

I works at a ISP and i got actually pissed off when IBM dropped native serial port on my old T41p thinkpad, IBMs answer was to use a USB-Serial dongle, right! another accessory to bring with you.

 

Hi everyone,

thanks again for your feedback!

I think this is a very interesting issue. I think it's pretty hard for me to respond to all of the criticism in detail, however I just wanted to post a few comments:

1. This review is not a comment on the overall quality of ThinkPads. It is a comment on the quality and features of the T520. Having tested both the T520 and the X1 over the past few weeks, I currently believe there is a great deal of difference between the quality of ThinkPads on the market. The X1 is an excellent machine which I highly recommend. But I could not overlook the T520's build quality issues. I would highlight the fact here that most of you are objecting mainly to my critiques of the T520's features (eg the ports) but not the build quality problems I mentioned.

2. Yes, the MacBook is being used in business settings. In fact, for example, the Commonwealth Bank, one of Australia's largest banks) is rolling out MacBook Airs, which have even less ports than most Macs, to thousands of workers in its new Darling Walk facility in Sydney. Many of the IT workers and developers I know prefer MacBook Pros, and it is very common at developer conferences to see whole rooms of them where you used to see whole rooms of ThinkPads. Yup, I've been around that long

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/252286,commbanks-sydney-staff-to-get-macbook-airs.aspx

3. I have worked in a number of environments at large companies which used projectors in meetings on a daily basis. I never saw people complain about having to use an adapter to plug in their laptop to the project's VGA port. A quick query of some of my friends and readers working in IT confirms they don't see it as an issue and don't really expect a VGA port on a laptop in 2011.

4. I have found that the opinions of the readers from NoteBookReview.com differ quite a bit from those of other readers -- you are much more likely to want advanced features in laptops which others are not looking for. I understand that you are advanced users, but is it possible that you are asking for features -- such as the TrackPoint -- which non-advanced users do not use? I find that this sort of thing occurs a lot when readers from one site converge on another. It's not a bad thing -- but Lenovo has a wide audience for its laptops, and I am trying to meet that wide audience in Australia with my reviews

A good example would be the comment about serial ports. Yes, I was a former sysadmin and used my machine's serial port all the time to access routers etc. However, I would say that 99% of laptop users these days would never need to use their laptop's serial port.

I hope this makes sense

One further question: Given that you guys have all piled in to slam me for my review, can I ask you to name what your favourite laptops models are, and what features you like to see in modern laptops? I ask both so that we can structure our review program with the input of informed readers, but also so I know what you think of the laptop market in general etc.

Cheers, and once again thanks for the debate!

Renai

 

In coporate America, everyone uses business oriented notebooks (aka the Big 3 of Business; Dell, HP and Lenovo. No serious large corporation in the Fortune 500 primarily uses Apple computers as their primary workhorse computers...except for maybe Apple.

Perhaps this is the case, but VGA is still the most common output on computers, even in 2011. Only really high end notebooks have eliminated VGA ports.

TrackPoint is for people who have gotten to used to it. Nearly all workhorse business laptops have them, Dell Latitudes, HP Elitebook, and of course ThinkPads. You say non-advanced users, but most non-advanced users don't buy ThinkPads. Most faint at the price of a fully configured W520. The average joe schmoe buys a 400-500 dollar laptop for basic use. We use ThinkPads for business use.

Sure many users do not need serial, most don't even know what it is. But it is on buisness oriented notebooks for reason(s) you stated. At work we had to upgrade all our credit card machines which only utilize serial ports.
I had to bring in my my older D600 and another coworker his D610 to upgrade all the credit card machines. Had we all used Macs, we would have been doomed.

The most discussed laptops in this Lenovo/IBM forum are going to be the new Sandy Bridge models from Lenovo, mainly the T420, X220 and the W520.

The thing is a review of a business laptop is definitely going to differ than a review oriented towards consumer grade (which includes Apple laptops). Perhaps a business subsection where you compare the Big 3 Business manufacturers (Dell's Vostro/Latitude/Precision lines, HP's Elitebook/ProBook lines, and Lenovo's ThinkPad line).

 

1. Maybe you like the X1 styling because it resembles a black Macbook when it is open? I like the external casing, but not too sure about the internal styling.

2. So Commonwealth is going to use hot desk-ing in Sydney, maybe the commercial office rent are getting too expensive in Sydney. Anyway, Macbook Air 11 as a business laptop? they must be running light apps and nothing CPU intensive.

Yes, there are lot of people whom prefer the Mac laptop, not just because of its styling, but as an alternative to windows. I use to use Macbook Pro in my University years (because that was a fad), but i found that they need to be babied more than the Thinkpads (i wouldn't care if i scratched or dropped my Thinkpads, but i am super careful with the pre-Unibody MBP, since a dent or scratch on it would look out of place). I also i found that you can't run CPU intensive processes on the MBP and still put the laptop on the lap for prolonged period.

3. Regarding ports and stuffs, i think your Macbook Pro review had the right idea:

Apple 15″ MacBook Pro (Feb 2011 model): Review | Delimiter

I can't imagine i would be happy if Lenovo went the same direction.

------------------

My favourite Thinkpad would be W700ds, R500, R400, T500, T60p, X301, T400s, T43p, Z61t, X61... quite a few. But X300/X301 would be my most favourite machine (this was the real competitor to the first MB Air).

My other favourite laptops are Panasonic Toughbook and Macbook Pro (yes i am a moderate Apple fan).

Finally we just want a balanced review, much like the Macbook Pro review that you did We are not all advanced users, but most of us take pride in using Thinkpads, which is why we frequent this forum so we can share our whims with other others whom care to listen. And we will express our dismay at any unfair comments directed at Thinkpads when the evidences are to the contrary.

 

I dread mac users that show up in conferences and, to do presentations, demand to use their mac (because of the software they used to do it) and then there's no adapter around to serve them (because the owner forgot to bring it). It is still a long way to go before VGA displays become the exception and not the norm in projectors and monitors. If thats the case, and at travel, space and weight are at premium, VGA display port seems essential for this kind of laptop IMHO.

 

lead_org actually likes all ThinkPads deep down.

Ya I would love to see retro ThinkPad reviews...but would that be relevant? lol

 

i am writing up retro review for all the Thinkpad i own. An momentous task....

Yes i do love my Thinkpads other than the Nvidia GPU equipped T61 and R61, just can't bear the thoughts of them failing on me even when i pamper them (which i rarely do to Thinkpads, since they are meant to be used).

 

Hi everyone.
I have frequented this site a few times in the past and always thought I should register for the forums but never took the plunge of adding yet another registration to my list. I guess it took something like this "review" to get me signed up.

I agree with the lot of you and especially the level-headed and experienced views of Rob and lead_org.

As some may know I have already shared my views of the linked-to review on the comments section of the page - needless to say I was not at all impressed and I would actually like to see the review revised or taken down. I think this would be within the best interests of the reviewer as well.

Addressing the last post by Renai ...

I grabbed this from your review:

This does actually worry me. Could you make a video showing the above? There are not many videos of the T520 around, but the ones that are available don't bring out any of those issues.

Well that is probably because in your review you spend a fair bit more time and space complaining about the "features" as opposed to the "build quality".

Yeah, let's see how long that lasts for.

You know it's an interesting thing about Australia (and probably more so about Sydney than anywhere else), but the feeling I get is that, where in Europe or the US there is an air of "been there done that with the hip stuff - now it's time to get to the brass tax of business" here it sometimes still seems to be more about the "hip stuff". It's not easy to explain, but it's something like that.

How much have you travelled? These Thinkpad's are not just made for your company or just for Australians. These machines are made to be used universally - all over the globe! Like other business systems they are all about covering as many (universally used) features as possible, and the Thinkpad does just that, without compromising on any modern features as well!

But Lenovo make the IdeaPad and the G series for the so-called "non-advanced users". The Thinkpad is not, and was never meant to be, for your average home user/consumer. So if you are writing a review on a Thinkpad with the average consumer in mind - well why don't you also write about a Toyota Land Cruiser V8 with the senior citizens in mind!? - You would have to completely bag out the Toyota LC because obviously it's not what your average grandma could drive.

I am sorry but that bit alone just tells me that you don't truly and fully understand what a Thinkpad is and where it's coming from.

(P.S. Can anyone tell me how to setup my signature? It's does not appear to be in the CP.)

 

@E.boder, welcome aboard....

i was going to ask Renai why he didn't compare Merc's Unimog or G Class SUV with the Audi Q5. But any hoot, i agree with all the issues you raised in the comment section of the T520 Review.

 

Ha! The Unimog - Love it!

 

That depends heavily on the task.

My use cases tend to be very different from most peoples'. I mostly use my laptops for kernel hacking, coding in a couple different languages, personal e-mail, and LaTeX. For me, ThinkPads are a great fit for my needs. (This is in no small part due to the rather uniform hardware.)

While I'd certainly list some of the ThinkPads I own or have owned amongst my favorite laptops, I would also recommend something totally different for most people.

So here's what I'd recommend:

For somebody who fancies themselves a creative type, or who spends most of their time listening to music, watching movies, and chatting with friends, I'd recommend a MacBook, probably the 13 inch one. For general consumer use, or if someone doesn't want to pay Apple's heavy premium, I'd recommend the Dell Vostro 13.

For SMB users, I'd recommend either a ThinkPad T420 or a Dell E5410 (I haven't used the E5420 yet -- if it's as good, I'd recommend that.)

For large enterprise deployments I wouldn't recommend anything, since they've already got their own policies and purchase agreements.

 

I actually read through all 5 pages of comments (including the author's 2 replies), and there's only 1 piece of advice I can give to the rest of you guys:

Don't feed the Troll.

This guy is obviously heavily biased against Lenovo's Thinkpads (whether his review would have been different, if the American IBM company were still making them instead of the 'Chinese' company), and loves his yankee-doodle Macbooks, so just leave each to his own and let this thread die already.

Yes, read between the lines.

 

Many of us probably don't have enough experiences with all the thinkpad models to give you a list of our favorites (largely because we use our notebooks for years because they're so durable and dependable that they really never need replacing).
I am not surprise that you like the X1. I probably would never buy the X1 because it's missing a lot of the traditional thinkpad features. Two notebooks that I'd really consider if I was a frequent traveler would be the X220 or X120e. Personally, I game too much so I would probably wait for a refresh hopefully with AMD's APUs.

 

I am sorry, Renai, but you sound very ignorant. When was the last time you saw a laptop with a DVI port? Pre-2008 Macbook Pros?

 

And where's the sense in ragging on the VGA port when there's ALSO a DisplayPort? Want to use something that doesn't take VGA, fine, there's a port for that too! Where's that on your MBP? Oh, right, there you have to force an entire workforce of users to purchase and remember to bring along an adapter in order to connect to a projector. How is that smart? How is that sensible to a sysadmin? You want flexibility so the users won't be bugging the sysadmin or help desk for things.

So you can't lay claim to anything close to sysadmin cred when ignoring issues like this. Face it, you wrote a lame review and people have called you on it. Just hope your next review isn't so terribly ill-informed, if your publisher is so ill-advised as to let you do another, that is.

 

Since the W520 is my first laptop, I can't really say what my favourite models are. However, after having shopped around and used a lot of laptops, these are features that a modern laptop MUST have in order for me to make my purchase:

1. Absolutely no glossy parts (logos and stickers are exempt; everything else is included). This is the first thing that I look for in a laptop. If it has anything glossy, no matter how great of a deal it is (unless, of course, I can resell it for much more), I won't buy it. I want a laptop, there is a huge mirror in the bathroom and on dressers around the house if I need one.

2. Good keyboard with all keys dedicated, like one found on a ThinkPad. Preferably traditional style. The Lenovo chiclet keyboard is the only chiclet keyboard I've used that actually passes as a good keyboard and wouldn't mind having. Minimal flex is also a criterion here. All keyboards will flex under enough pressure in my experiences, but I've used too many laptops that had keyboards that would bounce from me just typing on it.

3. Resolution. Anything lower than 900 pixels vertically is not enough for my purposes. I personally prefer 1000+, but I can only comfortably use screens up to 130 PPI (120 is much better, though). This means that I am limited to 14" and 15.6" laptops as I don't want anything bigger than 15.6", and anything smaller than 14" would have too high a PPI (though, I don't really want anything smaller than a 14" anyways so it all works out).

4. Battery life. I want something that can last at least 8hrs word processing or surfing the web (without Flash) without crippling the specs (i.e. ULV CPU, no dGPU, etc.). Yes, that means that I want both high specs AND long battery life, instead of having to choose between one or the other. Another key point here is that it has to do that in Windows, the main OS that I have used and will be using in university. If there is no option for a 9 cell battery, I probably won't buy the laptop.

5. Lid latch. I just don't trust those magnet locks. From personal experience, magnet locks don't work well at keeping things out of the laptop when it is closed.

6. Upgradeability and ease of disassembly. I like tinkering with hardware, so this is a must. Something like a MacBook would be a nightmare because it is so un-upgradeable.

7. Buttons. Yes, touchpad buttons. Forget the clickpad or teeter-totter bar. 2 discrete buttons with good feedback (while being quiet still) for the touchpad is a must. The TrackPoint in ThinkPads is a great bonus, as it adds the middle click button as well. To be quite honest, I hate the touchpad in Macs; it is oversized, and clicking is a pain. Instead, Apple should really use the space for a better keyboard.

8. Cosmetics and functionality. I don't want something that looks toy-ish like an Alienware. I want something that looks simplistic and professional like a ThinkPad. Black or silver in colour is also preferred, other colours are usually no go. The MacBook Pro is fine in terms of cosmetics in my books (as long as it has a matte screen), though it is lacking in other areas. The MacBook Air and the so called "Ultrabooks" are just, pardon my language, pure BS in my opinion. They are dysfunctional. I see absolutely no need for a laptop to be thinner than like 1.5", it is not like your bag is going to burst at its seams from that extra half an inch. The W520 is about 1.4" at its thickest point, and I think it is pretty thin already and see no need for it to be any thinner.

9. Ports and stuff. I'm not too picky about this. As long as there are:
- 4+ USB ports (including the eSATAp port)
- eSATA(p) port
- LAN
- Headphone out (and preferably mic in, something the W520 lacks, but I can live without it)
- Card reader
- An expansion slot of some sort (Expresscard or something)
- DVD or BD drive
- VGA
- Digital out of some sort
- Of course, DC in (sizable port preferred, don't trust those tiny DC in ports)
I'm happy.

I think that's pretty much it. The first time I've used a laptop was probably like more than 12 years ago. I've tried to like some of the consumer laptops, but couldn't bring myself to in the end. The ThinkPad W520 met my criteria almost exactly, so I bought it. I think I'll be buying plenty more ThinkPads down the road.

 

True. I guess there's something to be said about eliminating outdated or unused ports. But VGA hardly goes unused in corporate brand laptops. The way I see it, Apple basically forces their users to conform to their (Apple's) demands, while Lenovo Thinkpads are laptops that conform to the demands of the buyer/user. Lenovo will eliminate the VGA port when their customers (big corporations) say they won't use the VGA port. Apple's customers are ok with no VGA port because they are fine with having to buy the dongle, but Lenovo's corporate customers don't want to have to deal with the inevitable deluge of users who won't know what a VGA port is, won't remember to bring the dongle, will lose the dongle at some point, etc.