410s CPU whining? anyone?

ANY T410s can confirm or disconfirm that they are experiencing high-pitched whining noise coming from the CPU?

My story:
I got a new 400s (yes, the predecessor) and had a problem with a whining whining CPU noise, high pitched which was really getting to me. I called Lenovo, had them replace the speakers (as the noise was channeled through the speakers) but eventually had them take the computer back from me for a full refund. Basically I talked to one of the people in Georgia (tech. department) and a sales representative at the same time; the tech. person tried to pull a few bs tricks on me when I told him in a very specific way: this is related to CPU usage: if I set the performance of the computer on minimal, the high pitch noise abates..if it works on maximum performance, it's way loud and annoying. They took it back from me eventually and gave me money.

Now I've been waiting for a good deal (which expires tomorrow) to buy a new 410s hoping that this won't be an issue again. But some people mentioned with their T410s that the problems persist? Could anyone else comment?
thank you.

 

Hit or miss.

I have greater noise from my after market ram kit vs the Samsung modules from lenovo.

If you have it you're just going to have to deal with it. You can't really do anything about it as it is an inherent design issue with the CPU/motherboard. They can't engineer it away now.

 

More like they dont give a damn and wouldnt want to. Because its not like something so obvious would have slipped by both them AND the motherboard OEM in product testing. So they know what they were selling and are happy with the low cost of it, no matter the obvious flaws they are serving up to customers.

 

That's why I said it is an inherent design issue. And you can't engineer it away now.

 

The problem isn't the CPU (or at least it is highly unlikely). It is most likely the Pulse Width Modulators that power the CPU. When the CPU usage increases the PWM's change their frequency (increase) to supply a higher amount of power. This higher frequency is probably brining the PWM's closer and closer to their natural frequency and significantly increasing the vibration. The PWM's need to weigh more.

That's my guess at least and may be completely off!

 

Jaredy, Skagen and Paul38686,
thanks for the response. I have to admit I agree with skagen...it's incredible that lenovo let's this pass by...you don't buy a high-end model of a computer just to deal with issues that my stupid Samsung - a current and provisional replacement that I bought from costco - doesn't have.
Now did I understand it right: Are you Jaredy saying that the problem might but also might not occur with the new computer again? I.e. that some have it while others don't...or that all of them have it.
any other t410s users who could confirm or disconfirm?
Honestly I can't deal with that type of a noise..I am in the academic business, computer is my livelihood and I work on it each day in a very quite environment. Have hard time getting over issues with fan - usually try to control for fan activity with TFfancontrol.

 

I have a T410s with the Samsung SSD - I don't hear anything.

 

thank you Frank34,
what is the configuration of your computer?
it is the basic CTO2901 model?

 

I don't know what CTO2901 is or where to find this - tell me and I will check. I have the touch screen, [email protected], 4gig RAM, WiMax card, ummm...what other information would help you?

 

Yes - just found it: Model 2901-CTO

 

thank you frank

 

Well more like some users complain about having it and others say they don't really notice it. And I am sure it will differ because there are just variances in manufacturing. Every laptop with a Core intel chip I have had has made some noise, whatever the OEM.

 

Jaredy,
these are pretty grim prospects if you say that all the Core chips have problems with this.
I was thinking that I'd be even willing now to go for x301 instead (have a x300 and know that this is a good silent machine). But even x301 is using the Core chips.
So let's say all OEM versions have it then it's only a question of degree. I am okay it is not too audible by mine was really annoying: e.g. I would scroll down a page in a web browser and after I did that I'd get this echo-whining sound (anytime) coming through the speakers. That just really was annoying to a point that I felt I couldn't work with this. T410s is a perfect match for my needs and I don't see an alternative on the market (maybe Macs..but really I don't want to do that). Frustrating.

 

Ya, also mechanical hard drives will make noise that interacts with the system. So could be a combination of all of that for you if you aren't using an SSD. My CPU whine doesn't bug me THAT much, my ram kit I put in made a lot more audible noise than my CPU did.

 

Jaredy....does it also happened, as it used on my previous 400s, that when you scroll on the web, the whine disappears for a milisecond or so and then kicks in again? I've had now another user describe basically the same problem to me that I had with it.
I really need to buy a new laptop soon (i am going to do field work and need one) and I don't know about any alternative other than 410s.
Would you know?
I need something light, sturdy, reliable, with good keyboard...simply 410s..but without the f......WHINING.

 

I am familiar with the scrolling noise you're talking about. I have even experienced that on desktops with analog headphone outs.

Unfortunately I don't think you can guarantee whether you will get whining or not. T410s seems like a great laptop nonetheless.

Some users say disable the power management features in BIOS, but that sort of sucks since power management is obviously useful.

 

yeah I did that. it helped a bit..but then again I felt it was a self-defeating measure. You don't go out to buy a 1700USD to turn of some of its essential functions. I also noticed that the whining would disappear when I had minimal CPU performance on...i.e. it was significantly less audible.
I just wonder, are all the machines pretty much the same, just the sensitivity of users differs? (i.e. I belong to the noise annal type) or are some machines better than others? I think I could live with some whining as long as it's not too terrible.
really there's no alternative on the market.

 

Christina,

Here are some links describing the Power Management State in Bios:

How to reduce power consumption - ThinkWiki

And a thread discussing disabling CPU Power Management:

What does 'CPU Power Management' BIOS setting do? - lenovo community

Speculation is a minor hit on battery life.

 

Update: Noise disappears when I disable CPU power management in the BIOS and set the processor speed to low or lowest. I guess it's a tradeoff, though does anyone know how this limits CPU speed specifically?

 

that's exactly the same that I did. disable to cpu power management and set the processor speed to low....
but then really what's the point of having a T410s?

 

Have a look at the Panasonic F8
Panasonic Toughbook F8 Laptop Computer Review - PCWorld

or F9
((( Conics ))) Panasonic Toughbook CF-F9 J [2.53GHz i5/ WiMAX] CF-F9JYKCDP - Laptops - Computer >> conics.net

 

You are correct there is not another machine quite like the T410s. Get it - I think it is a great machine. I also do not hear any noise other than the fan (which is pretty quite too).

T410s - Recommended

 

Yes, get the panasonic

 

skagen,
thanks for the suggestion. I've checked it out but honestly that's not my cup of tea. I am going to Japan for a year, doing field work. So funnily enough I could get it there if I needed to.

 

sorry to revive this thread, but I'd like to hear more on this. Are there other users who can confirm or disconfirm problems with their ThinkPads related to CPU whining issue?

 

I hear some whining on my 8 month old x200. I don't know what it's from. It does not appear to be HDD or fan-related. I can hear it with the speakers on or muted. It started a few months ago. Prior to that it was dead silent.

 

To add something new that I've found out. I've been playing with a few ideas now how to find a substitute for T410s. One was, with my provocative post, Acer Timeline 8471. The other one is Sony Viao Z11 - we have a debate here about this computer and it really seems it's a great portable computer.
Now I've heard from a Viao Z11 user that even he has a problem with the CPU whining issue. If that's the case, then the whole issue must be related to Intel processors - otherwise I can't explain this to myself.
It also appears that some people really don't have any whine while others do (users of t400s and t410s). Now I don't think this is totally subjective-those who claimed they don't have it, I asked explicitly to double-check and they confirmed it.
So I am really really perplexed about this: how is it that some computers have the problems while others don't? (or they have it to a degree that is really minimal: like my x300...it's there, but it doesn't bother me at all). It seems to me that this is really only a matter of luck when you order your new Thinkpad?
please if there are other users out there who have positive experience (i.e. positively no CPU whine at all), speak out. The same applies to those who have issues with it.

 

From my understanding the noise come from the processor. Some claim that when the processor change it state from high power mode to low power mode it created this noise. While other claim that it is because the processor is in the low power mode which does not use all the electricity that is going into the device. All and all, the problem is the CPU, and it seem like the i5 seem to have the most problem with the noise

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6205581-post32.html

Problem is with Intel's circuits.

 

I find that the Thinkpads have louder cpu whine than other brands. My macbook pro is dead silent. A dell is dead silent without cpu whine. I always without fail hear it to varying degrees on thinkpads.

 

Thanks sgogeta4,
I think I have already read your post on this. It seems than that it's a question of how the circuits are designed. As you say: "Poor circuit design is probably at fault; electronic resonances in circuits can cause the components to vibrate or ring, and the whining we hear is directly related to that ringing."
But why does this differ from one laptop of the same series to the next? This is something I can't figure out. Because if I was able to figure that out I would know how to buy a T410s that I would love. Thus far it seems to me that ordering a T410s is like a Russian roulette. It could work out as it did for some here on the forum, or it could not, as it didn't for others here.

 

Intel provides the CPU (i5) and chipset (QM57). Lenovo controls the mainboard design and implementation, which needs to be designed and implemented so that fluctuating voltages do not cause so much noise.

 

that is exactly correct

 

Dell on the CPU whine, FYI:

My Laptop Makes a High-Pitched Buzzing Noise | Dell

 

My old X61 makes the same noise too, but only when the lid is closed while hooked up to an external monitor. When the lid is up, either normal operation or still hooked to an external display, there is no noise. Honestly, I've found the best solution is turn on some music or the tv or something. It's only really noticeable in a quiet environment.

 

Good reference. Thanks.

They say this noise only occurs during C3 (clock stopped) state. I think there must be more than one type of noise; mine makes an intermittent noise only under heavy load.

 

Yeah, that was the same experience i had with t400s. The heavier the load the louder. So there's more to it than this. I've been now trying to figure this out the last 2 weeks and it seems that it has to do with both: the way Intel is manufactured (i.e. nothing that Lenovo or others can do about it) but also the way the very notebook is manufactured - hence the variance in all the notebooks and user experience.
Seems that noise (whether CPU whine, HDD or fan activity) is a problem of modern notebooks. Yet some do have it more than others. From what i gather on these forums, MacBook Pro seems to be one of the most silent computers out there. Also I can confirm that Asus I had before was quite effective at minimizing noise, or at least providing me with that option.

 

I thought it had been explained stated by someone that it is not the CPU whining, but the electronics that feed power supply to the CPU. Which sounds like a cheap parts issue, most likely about manufacturers cutting costs a bit too far.

 

I thought it because the processor go into what they call C4 state, which is the power saving mode or something like that.

 

The Intel CPU offers C3 power state (clock stopped), and Dell suggests disabling C3 by turning on the onboard Bluetooth and forcing it to not power down (which eventually forces the C3 to never occur). They say this will get rid of "whine".

The Intel CPU offers SpeedStep and Turbo (which is essentially ramping the multiplier up and down, depending on core usage, loads, TDP headroom) which affects voltage under heavier load (think vDroop). The processor is doing more or less work, and power is drawn dynamically. I can imagine the mainboard components that supply the power to the CPU could be reacting with noise as the power draw changes dynamically. Turning off SpeedStep Turbo alleviates this some, on my machine, although I normally use SpeedStep and Turbo, and other settings, that managed to minimize noises. My guess right now is the machine reacts with noises from mainboard power system components at specific voltage levels. I try to avoid them.

But, having read about this a while, I can imagine almost anything.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/480987-vpc-z-arrandale-i520m-whining-noise-cpu.html

I have a Vaio Z series, 2010 version and it is making whining noise.

is it the same noise that you are talking about?

MEGAUPLOAD - HelloWhiningWorld

I recorded this by placing iphone right next to the i520m.

When i am checking Windows Experience Index, the whining goes away momentarily.

 

Reviving thread... Just received a new Lenovo T410s and it has the noise issue. It is not a whine--it is an electrical "interference" sound that comes through my headphones but not the speakers. Similar to what you hear on AM radio when going through a tunnel? (don't judge!)

The good people at IBM support suggested I change my headphones. For about 10 minutes as I tried to explain that it was not a headphone issue. Thanks for nothing, IBM. I don't know why I was expecting a more professional response.

The suggestion in this thread to use Power Manager to set computer performance to "maximum battery life" does solve the problem. For phone calls this is a viable solution. Also it only happens when it is plugged in. Alternative #2.

Other first impressions (this is my first Thinkpad):

• The 410s is nice & light just as promised. 2901 CTO...
• Screaming fast! I have the SSD hard drive & went for the extra battery in the ultrabay.
• The screen does suck. And by "suck" I mean it is no better than the Dell E6400 that this replaced. There is no "sweet spot" for viewing... there is always a part of the screen that is noticably darker. For the price I have to agree that I was expecting something better.
• The touchscreen is a gimick. I can't imagine ever using it. I wish there were an option for a better screen.
• The keyboard is delicious!

Still on the fence about keeping this bad boy--this is day #2 of fulltime use and the electrical/noise is noticable and super annoying. I am hoping to desensitize within my warranty.

 

External sound cards or USB headphones might be better shielded from internal EM interference.