32bit to 64bit, just a few q's before the switch...

Hey guys, I am going to run a clean install on my t61 tonight to finally start heavy duty use of my T61. But before I go that far, I have a few questions:

1. It is true that I can run 64bit with 3Gb, right? I read a post by HBQ saying that 64bit can run with lower but if you have 4Gb you have to run 64bit. Just want to check that this is true.

2. After reading stallen's guide, I was wondering if I just did the upgrade through SWtools (Lenovo doesn't send an "anytime" disc) I could create recovery media (again) for 64bit version. (Please tell me if anything sounds confused - if I need correction, I welcome it). I just want to be sure that I do this right. If I can't do it that way, I'll just borrow a disc from a friend.

Thanks, E

 

Hi Techno,
Let me see if I can answer your questions. I have done the clean install and I am running 64 bit Vista Business.

1.) Yes, you can run 64bit Vista with 3 GB of RAM. The whole issue with RAM is this.... A 32 bit OS(ex: Vista, Linux etc) can only see something like ~3.2GB of RAM. That is the limitation of 32 bit OSs, no matter the version/brand. One of the advantages of a 64 bit OS is that it can see 4+ GB of RAM. So, if you have 4+ GB of RAM and you want the ability to use all of it, then you need to use a 64 bit OS.

2.) Your statement is a bit confusing. First off when you make your recovery discs they are used to bring the machine to the way it was when you bought it, if you need to do this at some point(ex: if you want to sell the machine). You cannot use your recovery discs for a clean install. The clean install can be done with a retail, OEM or anytime upgrade disc. You can borrow a disc from a friend and use that since you are going to be using your OEM key that came with your machine.

Have you decided if you want to install 32 bit or 64 bit Vista? Your OEM key that came with your machine can be used to install either, your choice. You need to make this decision first. Even though Microsoft has many different Vista discs, there are really only 2 types, a 32 bit disc and a 64 bit disc. A 32 bit disc contains ALL versions of 32 bit vista(i.e Home premium, Business etc). A 64 bit disc contains ALL versions of 64 bit vista. So once you determine 32 or 64 bit, make sure to get the appropriate media.

Please let me know if you need more info or clarification.

 

Another advice is try to get yourself a Vista x64 disc with SP1 integrated already, it's always better than installing SP1 afterward.

 

You can have max RAM installed on any system, but on 32bit systems only 3gb will be recognized by the OS and utilized. In other words, it's a waste of money to put 4g on a 32bit system since all of it won't be used.

Vista Ultimate 64 will let you not only use 4gb + RAM (by + I mean you can use more RAM if your system will take it - my HDX will accept 8gb), it will utilize the RAM on your GPU as well.

You'll have to create new recovery disks - your old ones won't work if you switch to a 64bit configuration. Vista 64 (Ultimate and Premium) have the recovery disk creation tools to make new disks. Also, you might want to check the support page for your particular system to see if there's any issues when switching from 32 to 64. You'll likelyneed to update your drivers, BIOS, etc. There should be info on switching, or if you check the support forums there's probably some info on upgrading.

Keep in mind also that there are MANY programs out there that will not work on a 64 bit OS - Ultimate 64 lets you run programs under older OS's like XP does, but it's still a 64 bit OS. Depending on the program, it'll probably work even if the vendor says officially it doesn't support a 64bit OS. Example - I use Adobe's Master Collection on my system without any problems even though Adobe's official position is that their programs aren't 64bit certified. Point is, if there's any specific program that you use regularly or depend on for work, design, etc., then you should check and make sure there's no reported problems with it in a 64bit configuration or you'll be beating your head against a wall tomorrow morning after you're done.

The problem is that the industry hasn't gotten off their collective A$$es to support 64bit yet. The fact that a lot more people are buying them for the RAM use means that they will, but for now support is minimal at best. MS makes a 64bit IE that's installed with Vista, and Firefox released a 64bit version as well. The only other programs that have moved up are security and AV programs - Trend Micro, McAfee, Norton (gag), and others.

If you want a great site for 64bit systems (everything 64, for that matter) go to Start64.com. Just about everything you ever wanted to know or find out about 64bit anything is there.

Again, be sure to check for any specific program or system issues before you make the jump or you'll have a major headache tomorrow.

 

Well, the reason I am thinking about upgrading is because I have read that photoshop may run smoother. I also want to start video editing from a mobile station, so I was thinking that 64 might run better for what I am looking at doing in terms of heavy media editing. Thanks for the advice, Stewie, I will try to acquire a disk with the SP already on there. And Cyber, thanks for reminding me to make sure about the drivers. I read that on stallen's guide, so I am assuming I am going to have to do the additional work of finding drivers outside of my original set to make my machine work with what I want to do.

 

Ok heres something I must stress. A 32-bit OS can support upto 64GBs of memory ( RAM ). BUT your precious Microsoft Windows Vista _doesnt_ support it. Hence 32-bit Vista sees only 3GB of RAM even if you install 4GB or more.

SO this is an ARTIFICIAL LIMIT imposed by MICROSOFT WINDOWS and neither the hardware or anybody else is at fault.

On the other hand, real Operating Systems like Linux can ( and DO ) FULLY utilize the 4GB of installed RAM through what is known as PAE ( Physical Address Extension )

So the next time you guys decide to bash Lenovo or anybody for not supporting 4GB with 32bit windows, PLEASE BASH MICROSOFT and not anybody else

 

It isn't really an artificial limit per say... 32-bit technically allows only 4 GB of addressable memory. Devices are "memory mapped", which means that certain areas of memory are reserved to talk to them. The result is that you will be able to only use an arbitrary amount of RAM less than 4GB.

PAE somewhat helps with this... it allows more than 4GB of memory to be addressed. However, this is done in such a way that it's not natively 32-bit... the net result is that you will have more memory to use, but it is slower to access. For database systems and such, the ability to access that large amount of data more important than speed, thus their OSes will allow such things to happen.

PAE, however, is no solution due to its downfalls. The only way to solve it is by switching to 64-bit processing. Current 64-bit processors don't always have the ability to support true 64-bit memory addressing, but it's enough for use for now.


You don't have to get 4GB of RAM, but if you want to use 4GB of RAM, you must use 64-bit Windows (or a special Server version of Windows that Microsoft has allowed to use PAE ... or -insert other OSes-)

You can't create a recovery disk using Lenovo's tools for your new 64-bit installation, however... if you want to make a backup, there are plenty of solutions out there. Norton Ghost, for instance, has been a very good product (it's nothing like their sub-par anti-virus).

Good luck. I've switched to 64bit as well, and I like it so far

 

Why's that any better?

 

FWIW, while the PAE code in Windows makes RAM above 4GBs available, it is only available to those applications that specifically know how to address it—which basically means most applications won’t know how to touch it.

 

PAE is kind of a hack job that only works in very specific cases - such as Citrix or some database servers. If you really need to utilize a full 4GBs of RAM or more then you need a 64-bit OS. Besides, as I understand it PAE can incur a performance hit compared to 64-bit so it should only be utilized if you have no choice.

It's an technical limitation of 32-bit operating systems to not be able to normally address more than 4GBs of RAM. 32-bit Linux, Unix, etc are all affected so there's no point singling out Microsoft.

Anyway, I've found that the vast majority of software released in the past few years will run perfectly fine in XP x64. I've had no trouble finding free antivirus or firewall programs for it either. Most problems I've had were with older DOS/WIN95 software or with programs that refuse to install on a "server" OS even though they should be fine running in an x64 OS (shouldn't have this problem with Vista x64 though). Of course, if you know exactly which programs you need then by all means check to make sure it's compatible.

 

It's always cleaner and more stable when you compare any Windows with SP# integrated to Windows with SP# applied afterward, benchmarks show a slightly better overall performance too.

 

Excuse me? With PAE the processor actually has 36 address lines instead of 32 hence the increase in the addresseable space. It doesn't mean that the end applications need to be aware of this PAE facility. If it is so with Windows then its just sad engineering effort from Microsoft.

With Linux or other *nix OSes the application doesn't need to know and hence you can safely run it with PAE kernels.

 

36 physical lines. Virtual address space is still 32-bit with PAE turned on. PAE still won't do any good unless the application supports it; most Windows programs don't.

Regardless, PAE is not the answer if you want to use 4+ GBs of RAM. Not unless you had a very specific reason for it.

 

Perhaps the benchmarks show a slight improvement, but honestly, I've never noticed a difference.

 

Allright, I made the switch. 64-bit seems to run much smoother and stability really is better compared with all the Thinkpad bloatware.