*HP EliteBook 8740w Owners Lounge - PART 2*

@Siorah,

Great job, Bro!
I'd rep you but need to spread some around before the system lets me

Now, before we jump to conclusions regarding the temps -
what do you mean by "fully loaded"? What software did you use for testing?

9W for DC2 is nothing IMHO. That's a good news.

 

If you have something that's working, that's good. But the link on the 1st page of the HWiNFO announcement page has been superceeded by a newer version; unlike a commercial product it's constantly being upgraded by the product owner. Just click the link to the product's homepage to D/L the latest. HWiNFO & HWiNFO32 - Hardware Information and Analysis Tools

 

For me it's not acceptable. I used to type on a desktop keyboard and I feel uncomfortable with the backlit keyboard. I hope HP iron the keyboard out some day. But when? The backlit keyboard was launched on june and the current month is november...

In fact, I did a clean install. But I want to disable the hard disk on the upgrade bay sometimes, due to heat issues, and I cannot do this because the drives are swapped. It's HP's fault, not mine.

I mean you can notice little waves on each side of the rubber bezel. These waves are not present on the center of the bezel. I think the panel was not properly seated.

As the machine has less than 15 days usage, HP offered me a chance to get a new unit instead of repairing the current. My concern is if I go this way, ETA maybe higher than if they repair the current unit. I could suggest they replace the entire chassis instead of the whole machine...

I will report more later. Thank you for your interest

 

for CPU i used a Mental Ray Render (that i've used in all my temp tests, even the ones for the 620M/720QM comparison in that thread) it maxes out all cores for about 12 minutes while it does the math.

for GPU i used the hardware renderer in 3ds max, which doesn't do the stress testing like furmark does. scene using gpu computation - 100% GPU for around 11 minutes on the 5000M. for a contrast, the 2800m does it in 18 minutes lol.

hence the 'real world' testing. I did one test with normal fan temp table, then the next with hwinfo on max fan.

I don't believe furmark / prime is a good reflection of real world application. i prefer to do tests that people are likely to come across within the machines natural environment.

The final cpu+gpu test is a max quality render in After Effects CS5 - with the GPU Renderer in use as well. This maxes all cores + ram + GPU + Gddr as the whole system renders out frames. the system utilises around 99.5% of it's total available computational power doing this procedure.

I also do a test running 3DS max, with GPU and CPU rendering in place - this just about stresses the system, but it doesn't do as much ram usage (AFX maxes out my 16GB in that test) again, its the same files i've used for previous tests as well.

 

My 8740w made a surprise arrival this morning!

It was supposed to arrive two days from now but FedEx knocked on the door at 8 a.m.

I haven't done much with it yet. I am running some memtest86+ now to test the RAM I bought. I already cloned the hard drive to my WD Black 500GB 7200RPM. It came with a WD Black 250GB, which is nice.

Anyways, I noticed my unit came with the backlit keyboard, which I didn't order. Maybe they ran out of the regular kbs and decided to expedite my order by using the backlit one?
It does have some noticeable flex in the upper left, which is annoying but I'll learn to live with it. The rest of the kb seems OK.

 

congrats Charles!

welcomes to the Elite... book club!

May it bring you hours of usefullness

 

I see. The problem is your tests are hard to clone for most users, so we don't have a proper comparative scale. I'd like to run your tests on my system... Is it possible to download trial versions of that software?

 

hrm. if you want me to run the overkill benches, then i can do so tomorrow. they just aren't real results though. I've never seen my 8740w get to temps with furmark in everyday rendering, and i push this system alot!

but ok, i'll get prime and furmark on a pendrive and test it tomorrow.

You can get trials of the software yes. but i'll just do the standard ones i guess lol.

 

That would be great. But be careful, if the temps go past 100C - I'd stop the test. Also, Prime+Furmark will probably boost the power consumption, so PSU tripping is quite possible.

 

Something I noticed when I was installing RAM in my 8740w was the fact that there is only one RAM slot in the compartment on the bottom of the notebook; it was empty. Are the other modules under the keyboard?

 

yes charles, 2 bottom, 2 top (quad)

1 bottom 1 top (dual) i believe

its easy to access - 4 screws with the keyboard icon, then click the keyboard up with a credit card. access granted

 

Cool, I saw the keyboard icon screws on the bottom. Nifty.

Once my second 4GB module gets back from RMA I'll give it a go.

 

4 screws??? Are you sure?
In my case....only 3

 

here is the link to the videos which show how to do a RAM change and so on

Customer Self-Repair Steps (videos/animations)

 

You should call HP and demand that they send you the 4th screw. Plus a spare for your troubles. :laugh:

 

I knew it would take very little time for you to comment

 

Hey, you set them up, I knock them down.
Did you call them yet? :laugh:

 

Just an update -- I finally got some time to play with my 8740w. So far I am VERY impressed/happy.

memtest86+ has completed, 8 hours/6 passes no errors is good enough for me (very small probability of having a memory error). I'm now up and running and have transferred most of my stuff (I love e-SATA).

I have the backlit keyboard as I noted (though didn't order it); it had some flex but after applying the prescribed fix -- bending it slightly at the F4/F5 and F8/F9 keys -- there is basically no flex at all.

The screen is downright amazing. I'm just wow. I am using it in Adobe sRGB mode with 10-bit color enabled (via CCC), looks stunning. I have not even begun to look through my photo collection.
I recently bought a very good camera (Olympus E-PL1 micro 4/3) and plan to make use of this display to edit my photos. This is the first IPS display I've actually used (hard to believe, I know) and the viewing angles . . . uncomparable.

I'm liking everything else about the notebook thus far. The build quality is the best I have seen, even surpasses the Apple MacBooks; the touchpad is nice; it is not as heavy as it looks; lastly, did I mention the screen is amazing?

Anyways I'm going to try and enjoy my machine for a bit.

 

First, congrats and welcome to eliteclub
For the next 2-3 weeks, watch for the dead pixels and glowing pixels (real tiny tiny). You can download UD pixel to test it out (make sure to run in Admin mode).
As for the screen issues, go thru this Lagom test. Its time consuming, but worth it. Pay close attention to the black level test. You should see all the squares and be able to differentiate.

 

The first two squares are more imaginary than visible, IMHO.

 

I went to play Battlefield Bad Company 2 just for kicks, it runs fine despite the workstation graphics card, like a regular HD 5870 -- never skipped a beat, always smooth even maxed out.
The game kept crashing when I was in 10-bit display mode; I had to put it back to 8-bit. I don't see much of a difference. Where do you guys find 10-bit mode useful?

Other observations:
The bottom of the notebook around the fan gets quite warm but on the surface it is quite cool, barely room temperature.

The keyboard is pretty good however not great. I like it though. I think the chiclet/island-style keyboard on my ProBook is better.
The touchpad on the other hand is excellent. I will have to warm up to the trackpoint, it has been a long time since I used one (since my ThinkPad X61t, as a matter of fact; circa mid-2007).

Something funny I notice with my ProBook and now the EliteBook is that if I leave the mouse plugged in via USB before starting the computer, I will get a "mouse interface error", which makes me press F1 to continue. The simple solution is, of course, to unplug the mouse before you start the computer.
Something else I find funny is the fact that this notebook has a 56k modem; I can't remember the last time I used or tested a computer that had one of those.

I think the indicator lights above the keyboard are a bit bright. Also, I had to apply a bit of pressure to get them to register. Other than that, they look nice.

I appreciate the tips, I'll keep an eye out.

 

looking forward to joining the club soon.

 

@Aikimox:

Do you have the backlit keyboard installed at this moment? If so, do you notice flex under the function keys (the number row) and a very little flex on the first row with letters (Q, W, E, R, T, Y ...)?

Thanks

 

Did she offer you a nice discount?

After bending the F4/F5 and F8/F9 areas the flex is very minimal, but yes it's still there.
I'm thinking of doing a KB mod in the nearest future. Will keep you posted if it happens.

 

haven't called her yet. but I will soon.

 

I look forward to the review!

I consider this 10-bit IPS display crammed into a mobile package to be at minimum a major evolutionary step [I say revolutionary but others argue that], and needs to be shared with the unwashed masses.

p.s. 10-bit is only useful in graphics or video applications that are capable of rendering to it to show much smoother color/gray gradients, reaching the capability of CRT studio broadcast monitors. ...but with that said, I still argue 10-bit is actually working, or at minimum working as intended in PhotoShot CS5; strange banding, then dithering within the edges of the banding when zoomed say 500%. Any word from HP along those lines HiddenUser?

 

I have to say, after finding that 10-bit mode didn't work with aero, I haven't used it all (though I'm using my 8740w more for scientific computation purposes than graphical ones).

Somewhat -- but I use mine on my lap all the time with no heat issues.

I feel the same way --- I like the backlit keyboard fine, but I'm a bit mixed because I liked the non-backlit keyboard on my previous HP nw9440 workstation better. So I feel like there's a real tradeoff there, although I'm not sure which side, if any, is better.

I agree with this too --- I liked the physically clickable buttons on the nw9440 better, and found them more responsive, than the lighted buttons on the 8740w, but it's not a big deal.

 

It works now, for the last few months, with the latest drivers.

edit: Oops, I don't recall if you have the ATI card or NVidia card. I should say it [Aero & 10-bit mode] works now w/the ATI card; making me question if 10-bit is actually working all the more .

 

I'm coming to the same conclusion about the lack of true 10bpc color rendition with PhotoShop CS5. I've tried every combination of video settings/Aero on-off/etc. that I can come up with, but I've yet to find a combination that will render smooth gradients as they should appear with 10bpc on the DC display. Knowing that most folks here have the ATI GPU, I was hoping that I might have different results with the 2800. So far, I haven't.

While trying to track down another problem I was having with PhotoShop disallowing OpenGL activation, I ran across quite a few references to Adobe blaming poorly written drivers and incomplete implementations on the part of GPU vendors as the culprit. Although it's an entirely different issue, it did underscore that PhotoShop's underlying code will make assumptions about the platform it's running on without giving much feedback in the process. It makes me wonder if there's something about the DC2/GPU/driver combinations in our systems that causes PhotoShop not to render 10bpc screen output. It would be nice if there was a way to confirm that PhotoShop at least thinks that it's showing that color depth, even if we don't see the results.

For what it's worth, I've yet to have any issues with Aero and the 2800.

 

Congratulations to HiddenUser and Charles P. on your their new machines.

Well, after months of researching and reading hundreds of pages of on-line forums, I finally placed my order for a 8740w last Friday (Nov. 5th). Still have NOT received an order confirmation from HP, but I assume that will show up sooner or later? They sure took my payment quick enough!

I will post my configuration soon...along with a bunch of questions I hope you can help me with.

Special thanks to knight427 for providing me his HP rep contact information (got the 28% discount...thank you!) and for making some good suggestions on what options to buy or not to buy. You were right about how cool my NBR sig will be with the 940xm... I'm sure it was worth the extra money.

I'm ready to buy 16GB of memory (not from HP) as soon as I get an order confirmation. Is the typical order-to-delivery times still running ~3 weeks?

I asked my rep if HP could deliver my new 8740w on my birthday (Nov. 24th)...seems apropos considering how much money I just spent. Still trying to figure out how I'm going to pay my mortgage this month.

Thanks to everyone for a great forum and for all of the hours of sleep I lost the past few months reading this stuff every night. I really need more sleep...and more income! :SLEEP:

 

well wizman,

I've done some benches with the 940XM in the machine here this morning, as aki asked.

Code:

right just got back from work;

following information is real world, no benches, so these are functional temps etc.

ok the beast machine:

Room was 24c

940XM First:

Idle 48c

Fan Forced 44c
---------------
Full loaded 91c

Fan Forced 87c

The GPU was idle - sitting on ~50c


5000M

Idle 44c

Fan Forced 40c
---------------
fully loaded (without CPU) 78c

Fan Forced 74c

idle cpu was about ~54c

Fully loaded (with CPU @ 100%) ~95c

Fan Forced ~92c

I left the tests for 10 minutes

At maximum load the system was pulling 213w from the psu. DC2 @ full brightness btw

ok i did these tests before everyone came into the office this morning.

Reviewed Temps with prime and furmark.

Room was 24c

940XM First:

Idle 48c

Fan Forced 44c
---------------


Full loaded 92c

Fan Forced 87c

The GPU was idle - sitting on ~51c


5000M

Idle 44c

Fan Forced 40c
---------------
fully loaded (without CPU) 86c

Fan Forced 80c

idle cpu was about ~56c

Fully loaded (with CPU @ 100%) ~101c flickered between 98-101c

Fan Forced ~93c

I left the tests for 10 minutes

At maximum load the system was pulling 223w from the psu.

The furmark + prime test really hammered the system. however i didn't get thermal shutdown with it flickering around 99c

but yea, it's JUST within the boundaries of the thermal solution.

as a hint

Lifting the laptop off the desk by a little bit dropped the temps by 2c

the max load test ran for 10 mins, but it averaged 99c on the temps

hot stuff...

 

prod, what driver version you running on the 2800M?

I get 10bit out on my DC monitor from this laptop. i found the 260+ driver seemed to make CS5 work a lot better with the OpenGL draw. i've never had a proble with it being disabled though, thats something i've not heard of.

 

Thanks Siorah, actually pretty COOL! Can't wait to give it a real workout.
Glad I ordered the 230w PS and some extra ice cubes! Just needs a little OCing!

 

@Wizman:

Did you order the backlit keyboard? If so, please report its behavior (if it does have noticeable flex). Thank you.

HP is going to replace the entire machine. I don't have any other option. Then I'll receive the replacement within 2-3 weeks, as if it were a normal order

 

@Aikimox: Since you're now a retailer, could you ask HP (or your wholesaler) when will the backlit keyboard be installed on factory in Europe? I think it's installed only in America at this moment. My rep's technicians installed the keyboard for me. HP refused to install it on factory. I guess that when this keyboard is installed on factory, it's likely HP could have solved most of the flex issues.

Thank you, I really need the backlit kb, but I cannot bear its current behavior

 

For all those talking about the 10-bit and CS5 banding, it isn't working as intended. ATI has acknowledged it and is currently working with HP engineering.

 

Sorry, confused you with HiddenUser. That they know something's up and aren't ignoring it was what I was hoping to hear. Well, was hoping they were done or near done, but what can ya do.

 

The last version I've found on HP site is 198.05 REV: A
So, are you using the nVidia verde drivers? And of so, have you had any problem? Do you recommend these drivers?

Thanks

 

wow no wonder you're having issues.

I am using 260.99 atm with no problems, AND we have CS5 acceleration/support and most definately recommend it, i got quite a good perf boost on the nvidia ones.

if you use PS then i recommend it

 

And congratulations to you as well! Please post your specs.

It took about three-four days to confirm my order, then another 12 business days in production before it shipped, and three days for shipping. Not too bad considering how long some of the original owners waited. Still, it's a bit longer than usual for a CTO machine.

------

Thanks for all the benches/temp readings, Siorah; that is one insane processor. I had a 940XM in a couple of review laptops back this summer/fall, it's insane. Way out of my price range, unfortunately; not that I need that kind of power anyway. The i5-560M is proving very competent.

I'll take some temp readings later when I run benchmarks.

----

I attached some pics of the beautiful DC2 screen.

 

Thank you. I don't have my unit yet, it's in production, but I asked because I was thinking about installing those drivers, although I'm not much on PS; I'll be using it for CAD overall. I think I read somewhere that using the HP drivers was the best choice and wanted to know some user's opinion.

 

well, i can say, on CAD 2010/11 you get better performance out of the Nvidia drivers, because of the newer support added. Also with the new Vbios, the 2800M supports the MAX/VIZ acceleration driver. i believe there is one for cad too. but you need to be on a 240+ driver to use the accel'ed drivers for autodesk products. on the stock driver you can't use it - says not supported.

The IPA? certification with HP btw, continues on in newer drivers. it's very rare a product certified for a GPU will fail with a driver update btw.

I also noticed on the 2800m/5000m with the 260 drivers, it downclocks the PCIE bus when idle. (watch gpu-z for this) it will go back to 1.1 when it's being lazy, and kick into 2.0 when it's in use. A useful power saving feature.

(and it helps fix the nvidia timeout bluescreen i used to get from time to time)

Sio

(source for acad : http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/AutoCAD_PD_workstation_uk.html)

 

At this point I have no business partnership with HP. This can change in the nearest future

@Siorah,

Thank you for doing the tests.
Nice to see that the system can handle the stock clocked 940XM and FX5000M under full load.

I still think, that any OC'ing of the CPU will result in potential PSU tripping under load as well as extremely high temps. I'll run Furmark+Prime @ 24C room temp on my system to see the difference, but already there's a very little doubt that upgrading to the extreme CPU might not be a brilliant idea.

BTW, +1 rep! Great job, M8!

 

Just curious: what method are you using to verify that 10-bit display output is working? PhotoShop, or something else?

At the moment, I'm using driver version 259.47. I tried using 260.99, but after installing it I could no longer use the Mobile Display Assistant (it lost all of its presets and wouldn't show the "control" tab, so I couldn't change display modes). Going back to 259.47 fixed that.

The issue I had with PhotoShop disallowing OpenGL was a bit obscure. The 64-bit version of PS enabled it, but not the 32-bit (which I have to use for automation reasons). Took me a while, but eventually I figured out that it was because PS-32 was being launched as a sub-process of an application that was set to run in compatibility mode for Windows XP SP3, so it apparently inherited the same compatibility mode environment. I had set the properties for the app launcher that way when I was testing something else and forgot to turn it off. As soon as I turned off that setting for the app launcher, PS-32 started allowing OpenGL again. The irksome part of that (besides my own forgetfulness) was that PS gave no indication as to why it wouldn't allow OpenGL -- it just greyed-out the option entirely.

These fairly recent comments from Chris Cox of Adobe imply to me that true 10-bit support with CS5 is still "iffy". He's implying that both ATI and nVidia have support for it in their newer drivers, but doesn't say which ones those are. I'm hopeful that some combination of supported updates in the near future will get it all working properly. For now, I'll live with it the way it is, which is still much better than my previous setup.

 

Yes, I ordered the backlit keyboard and will report back regarding any bumps or flex.

I'm glad to hear that HP is going to replace your machine, but it is unfortunate that it wasn't right the first time and that you have to wait again to receive a replacement. I hope I have a better initial experience with mine.

 

I have the ATI card --- I didn't realize the 10-bit color/aero problem had been resolved after I ran into it originally, but I tried it again and yes it seems to work fine now.

I also got a "boot to a black screen" again yesterday. I called HP support (mostly to document the problem) and they want me to hook up an external monitor next time it happens, so I'll try that. I'm somewhat skeptical about how they'll fix it --- it took me about 10 mins to explain to the guy that I wasn't talking about a dim/defective monitor...

 

Does this mean there will be no future complaints for posting that greatly biased review and tricking innocent people into buying this notebook?

Glad to see that the majority of owners are happy with the purchase so far.
Honestly, I was very reluctant to buy this system as in IT sector where I come from, HP was never regarded as something reliable. I guess, things change and this is a good example.


@Thecla,

When was the last time you did a power drain?

 

I would probably buy a 8740w for photo processing.
Now there is an 18% ecoupon on the website and free shipping. But from the Q&A part, "Some report discounts up to 28% by calling particular HP reps." Does anyone know how to get this kind of discount?
Thank you guys!

 

PM Knight427, his rep recently offered someone a 28% OFF, IIRC.


Alternatively, I can direct you to my rep, she can give you 25% OFF.

 

This is the first laptop that I've actually been comfortable editing photos on for commercial work. The DC2 screen is really that good.

I've heard of people having mixed results when trying to use the ecoupon for online ordering. The best thing to do is call the provided number and talk to a sales rep. Don't be afraid to ask for a discount on your order. You won't regret it.