newby laptop question about batteries

im pretty new to computers and im just about to get my laptop
i was just wondering if you r going to use ur laptop as a desktop
could u take the bat out and keep the laptop charged by the AC
so the batt won't start deteriorating
help please. XD

 

yes, you can

no, you shouldn't

one time spike in the power grid and your information could be lost, with possible system errors. Also, the battery is getting old anyways .. as we all do.

are batteries that expensive anyways ?

 

You can do it, but a battery retaining its charge, or staying discharged for too long takes the same wear anyway, really so it wouldn't really make much of a difference, either way the battery will only really be good for2 or 3 years tops, then its nearly uselss.

Yes batteries can be £80 upwards for a good one, to replace my 9-cell i would be paying out maybe £130+ from Dell.

 

oh alright
i guess i shouldnt do it then

 

It probably wouldnt be worth it, but get a second opinion on it first

 

If you really will be using notebook as a desktop? And not worried about what all above have said? They don't worry about desktops? Sure pull out battery store at a 40% to 50% charge in a cool place. Battery will last longer.

 

Batteries will not last longer at a 40% charge, just leave the battery in the system. Just because someone online says that its best to keep it charged at 40% in a freezer, doesnt mean they are right. Think about it on an electrical level, and you will see that nothing bad happens from leaving the battery in the system. The only time battery life decreases, is if the battery gets extremely hot from heat radiating from otehr parts of the laptop. If the battery is getting hot when you are not using it, than removing its a good idea, but oherwise dont remove the battery. I ve got batteries over 12 years old, and they will only die cause of manufacturers controlling the lifetime of the cells, and with simple hands on work, you can make the battery as good as new again.

K-TRON

 

could you share some of the tips/ways to make the battery nearly new again?

 

Yes you can, I take mine out all the time.

 

Did you do any extensive tests to back up your statememt? If not, how can you say people, who have done extensive tests, are being wrong? If you read all the information on their site, I believe they're very knowledgeable about batteries.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/

 

I have done my own tests on batteries, and after studying lithium based batteries you will see that temperature is the only thing which effects the cells of the battery.
Not for kicks, but I can make a website called allcorrectbatteryinfo.com if I wanted to, and say whatever i want.

Batteries cannot last longer at 40%, because batteries are in essence resistors, and will continually discharge as long as they are unplugged from a power source. So when unplugging the battery at 40% versus 100% makes no difference what so ever.
Batteries work by electrical voltage gradients. As long as their is a gradient between the voltage of the battery and the charge output by the charging circuit the battery will charge. When the potential becomes zero the battery stops charging.
Now, batteries will not wear because of leaving them in the system. They only wear from abuse, such as heat. If your system processor is located near the battery and the battery is always running hot, even when not in use than the battery is being slowly deteriorated. The chemicals are basically oxidizing the metal plates from within the battery when the ambient temperature is too high.
If the battery does not get hot from normal ac power use than their is no problem.
However I am a firm believer in one thing.
Charging.
When you discharge the battery, while running on batteries, put the system in standby when its at liek 10%. At this point, grab the ac power and plug that in. Than after about 5 seconds unplug the battery. Than use ac power.

Why is this.
Well discharging the battery causes the cells to get hot. Than people immediately just plug the ac power back in.
Well charging the cells make the cells even hotter, which is what causes the wear. By letting the battery cool before charging is key to long life.
Batteries will last 5 or more years by doing this without doing any ridiculous storing teh battery at a certain percentage.

I hope this helps you understand how a battery works and why its important to charge this way.

I very much dislike the battery guide because their information is based off of these websites which are telling the public nonsense. Any study of chemicals and batteries will tell you what I am stating.

K-TRON

 

May I ask if you have actually read the information on batteryuniversity.com? Because you sound like you didn't. Everything they're saying is in fact related to temperature too, not just the 40% charge. But for some reason, you took the 40% out of context. Here is summary of the information on wiki, based on the detaited information on batteryuniversity.com.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion#Storage_temperature_and_charge

Notice they clearly pointed out how increase in temperature will cause a greater loss. But if you look at between 40% and 100% charge, the loss difference is much lower than caused by the higher temperature.

Here is the much longer version of the explanation, temperature is the main point, I think you should read it before accusing them making up information.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

 

Yup, I didnt read the article, but what its saying is true, and to me not true.
A fully charged cell will have the same internal resistance as one which is 40% charged. Thus it will depreciate at the same speed. I dont know how they are getting these wear values, because I for one have had over 15 batteries which have lasted over 5 years, and none of them have any wear on them.
What they call "digital memory" of a battery is not memory at all. Its a microcontroller on the inside of the battery which tells the system whether it can be charged or not. A very knowledgeable user can reset this internal microcontroller and reset the slate making the battery cells perform like new again. Their website fails to mention this, and thus I believe that they are rigging their tests. I have never seen or heard of a battery losing 40% of its charge after 3 months at full charge. One can easily connect the serial microcontroller on the inside of a battery to a pc and change the settings telling the controller that teh battery is due for a replacement. These chips are in their, so that the company can control the length of the life of their batteries, so that the consumer will have to buy more. But those who take their batteries apart and do some research will find that they can reset their battery and allow it to run for a longer period of time.

I find their charts to be innacurate. I have fully discharged batteries and never remove them from my system, and never have I once had any wear. For example my old Northgate still gets 40 minutes of battery life today as it did 12 years ago. My dell 8500 batteries still give me just shy of 6 hours of battery life. Their is no wear on the batteries, and they keep chugging along.

I believe this whole storing at 40% is a scam. I will find some chemistry/ee professors at my college and see what they say. I know my brother who is an electrical engineer can backup that LION and LIP batteries do not suffer any difference in shelf life when stored at different charges.

K-TRON

 

hello K-TRON!!! I really learn a lot from your very detailed explanation of the battery!!! I'm particularly interested on RESETTING THE INTERNAL MICROCONTROLLER which resets the slate making the batteries performing like new again. Can you be so kind as to give me the step by step on how to do this wonderful guide so in the future I can make use of this in my laptop... By the way, I'm using a Samsung Sens P55 laptop now... Hope to hear from you soon as I'm very excited to learn this technique from you! Thanks and more Lithium power to you...

 

I mentioned how to do it in a thread Tinderbox made about OEM batteries it was about a week ago

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=294809

Simply take the battery apart, (do so carefully, I am not responsible for you destroying your battery if you do this wrong)
You need to find the microcontroller used in the battery and look it up. Than you need to find a data sheet on it and look at the pinout to see how you can reset it. I have done this to dell batteries in the past and it works fine.
I am not sure if it will work on other systems, cause I have only operated on Dell batteries.

K-TRON

 

Thanks for your prompt reply K-TRON!! Compared to you I'm an amateur when it comes to tinkering with the inside of a gadget.... I just have to be contented with what the manufacturer's battery offer as I don't want to risk doing the short circuiting stuff. How I wish it could be that easy.... Thanks again and more power!!