Testing the limits of a notebook - 8GB of RAM!!!

It's been a few weeks since I've logged on, I've been soo busy! hehehe, anyways, many have asked about 4GB support on their laptops. To that question, we can conclude that it is possible with the correct chipset and operating system. After doing some research, I found this:

http://www.intel.com/business/casestudies/proof_of_concepts_dcs.pdf

Scroll down to the second page and it says the following:

"Taking Full Advantage of New Operating Systems
The Intel® Core™ microarchitecture is optimized for multitasking and
multithreading. Together with 64-bit support, this delivers maximum
performance from Microsoft Windows Vista*. This brings out the full
potential of the computing environment made possible by the nextgeneration
Windows* system to deliver a further step up in notebook
PC processing performance.
• Supports 8GB of Memory
The Mobile Intel® 965 Express Chipset Family supports a main memory
size up to 8GB."

and then I saw this:

http://www.micron.com/products/partdetail?part=MT16HTS51264HY-667

Now, I would like to know, is this possible (to run a full, addressable and useable 8GB of RAM)? I KNOW 99.9999% of you are going to say it's not possible, but why? Let's say our operating system supported this amount of system memory, what problems would there be? Please be as specific as possible!

Please do not post back saying, "what's the point of having 8GB, you don't need it." My question is basically seeing how high laptops can go, not whether or not you're going to fully utilize this memory.

Please post your answer, yes or no, and also explain why in as much detail as possible, I would prefer not if people said "OOO THE KINGSTON WEBSITE SAID SO!!!!!" I am aware of that, but I would prefer some mathematical logic and reasoning behind it.

The two 4GB SO-DIMMs would probably cost more than the entire laptop though!

Thanks in advance for your help everyone!

 

Assuming you have that chipset, a 64bit CPU, and a 64bit OS...

You still have to have more than 32bit physical addressing support on the notebook's RAM slots and the notebook motherboard. As in 32 or more physical traces for electrical zeros or ones to flow. You are not guaranteed to have that support, unless it is clearly documented by the vendor.

 

well , i didn´t know the 4 GB sticks are available for the masses.

but anyway, i guess you would be one of the first to "step" into this new world. i have not yet heard of anyone using 8 GB in a laptop. so you might be a test pilot.

but for now, i still don´t see any use for the 8GB, i´m doing a lot of 3d modeling / rendering / photoshop work, and i haven´t had any issues with not having enough ram. but i´m running xp64, so i need about 1 GB less than in vista. maybe in vista i could probably push my laptop to the limit of the 4GB ram i have installed.

 

Hi.

I went to the crucial and kingston websites`s and it says my motherboard only supports upto 4gb and i have an 965 chipset.

Unless their wrong?

regards

John.

 

there are no prices available for these ramsticks. looks like you would have to contact a sales rep to get a sample.
for fun i went to the crucial site and had a quick look for ddrII 4gb ram-sticks, but same here crucial does only have the desktop ram. but the price is rather high. they want to have ~900$ for the 8 GB kit for desktops.

Assuming the notebook sodimms are a bit more expensive you could end up with 1000$ or more for this little experiment.

 

Well like I said, providing I have the OS support and the 8 GB kit, does the 965 chipset support it? once again, take a look:

http://www.intel.com/business/casestudies/proof_of_concepts_dcs.pdf

"The Intel® Core™ microarchitecture is optimized for multitasking and
multithreading. Together with 64-bit support, this delivers maximum
performance from Microsoft Windows Vista*. This brings out the full
potential of the computing environment made possible by the nextgeneration
Windows* system to deliver a further step up in notebook
PC processing performance.
• Supports 8GB of Memory
The Mobile Intel® 965 Express Chipset Family supports a main memory
size up to 8GB."

I know kingston and crucial websites say blah blah blah, I'm looking for the actual LOGIC behind it. Is it possible, yes or no, and why (more evidence than "KINGSTON WEBSITE SAYS SO!!!"), I'd prefer some mathematical logic if possible.

Thanks guys!

 

The main problem is that the BIOS has to recognize the chip density. Those are 512MB chips, twice as dense as the 256MB chips used in 2GB SODIMMs. Maybe the BIOS knows what to do with them, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't it can be updated. Other than that the hardware is capable. Any current generation AMD chipset is too but until someone actually tests it with an updated BIOS they aren't going to make claims.

I ran into this problem when upgrading RAM on old PCs. They started building 128MB DIMMs with four chips instead of 16 and the old PC just said "huh?"

 

What Greg and brianstretch said makes a lot of sense to me, of the potential problems. Also and I know tech companies are notorious for bad and outdated contradictory documentation (when working with 0's and 1's all day English becomes difficult) here is the link to the Mobil Intel 965 Family specs. Look in section 1.1.2 and read down, here is what it says 4th bullet:

Maximum memory supported: 4GB


I think the 9th bullet addresses what brainstretch was saying:

Support for 8x and 16x devices

Make no mistake, I want you to be the test pilot, I want you to try and I think it might work but it might not. Greg brought up some good MOBO points. I say go for it but it might not work, you have one document says one thing other says different and has been pointed out more than just chipset involved. Oh by the way if you pull it off you will be a hero (at least in my mind) best of luck, but remember you have a lot going against you.

 

So lemme get this straight. What things have to support 8 GB of RAM in order to use it fully?

64 bit OS
Motherboard (hardware) support
chipest support (not sure if you would consider this as "hardware support")
Bios support

The OS isn't much of a problem, but when it comes to the bios, is it most likely that the bios DOES support 8 GB? Also, will my 965 chipset support it?

I'm really confuzzled guys!

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Your document does say the chipset does support. Did the MFG of your notebook take advantage of that? That is the question. I can't answer, it could go either way. One way to test is buy 1 stick of 4GB mix it with one stick of what you have. That will tell you if your hardware can recognize a 4GB stick and with the other stick of your's you will cross the all important 4GB threshold. No one knows if this will or will not work as we have never seen anyone do it. Also have never read it will not work so I don't know. Can't say more than that.

 

It's really a moot point till someone actually finds a 4gb SODIMM. The ICs to make them may exist but I have never seen any. And I shudder to think how much they would cost to manufacture right now. And, I can only assume that there are not notebooks with 4 RAM slots?

 

Look harder Homer, that's bits not bytes, and it's per module not per stick.

If you do get 8GB, then there's actually a per process limit even in XP/Vista-64 where IIRC you can only have 4GB per process (XP-32 was 2GB IIRC). Edit: not sure what the limit is, if there is one, for Linux-64 though.

So you could use it but it would be most useful for multi-tasking, not just for a large chunks to the full 8GB size.

They've been using very large memory sizes 16GB+ in workstations for quite some time. One of out rigs here at work has 12GB, and I think I've seen a trade flyer with a 64GB workstation from HP or IBM.

Anywhoo, if the mobo (chipset and BIOS) supports it, and the OS and the app support it (well the app just needs to be compatible with the rest) then you can use the 8GB no problem.

 

There's no such limit for 64-bit Windows.
You might be confused by the limit for 32-bit apps running under 64-bit Windows.
Assuming the 32-bit application in question sets the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag, it is allowed to use up to 4GB instead of 2GB.
But 64-bit applications can use as much memory as they like. They don't have this (artificial) limit.

 

Ah ok, I was under the impression it still had a process limit, but I haven't used it enough to really bother with it (for me it's a multi tasking thing with many instances of geomatics apps running).

Good to know, and thanks for the info.

OK, since I'm curious, a quick check to MSDN and the limit is still present (2/4GB), but it can be adapted like PAE does for hardware with 4G-tuning using the flag so that it does give it access to the whole '8TB' under X64 and 7TB un IPF, but you still need the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag.

Interestingly enough, for Vista Home Premium for whatever reason the 'physical limit' is 8GB which of course sounds like an artificial constraint the other versions are support for up to 128GB.

 

DOH! Opps!

 

thanks my friend

 

FYI: the Dell M6300 notebook can now be configured with 8 GB total RAM.

 

Well maybe I'll order one of those test modules from Micron. i wonder how much it'll cost....

 

HP allows you to configure with 8GB of RAM (including getting a single 4GB stick).

 

Those 4 GB sticks must cost a fortune.

 

1.299$ @ Dell, around the same @ HP (two that is).

 

Ack, I could buy a new computer. Damn that's expensive, but it'd be a lot of fun to try out.

 

Yeah, it's not worth it at all, when you can get 4GB for less than 100$. I wouldn't pay 13 times more for double.

 

I have been seeing a tiny bit of info about Micron 256mb ICs. I guess someone is making SODIMMs now with 256mb ICs.