Sandy Bridge to Haswell

Hi all,
my laptop (clevo p150hm with a 2670qm and ATI 6990m) is in the shop currently after a gpu failure. As a result I've been told that a new machine might be in order as the motherboard needs to be replaced as well and it probably works out more cost effective.
They've basically told me that they can salvage the HD and CPU as well as a few other components and but them into a P150em (ivy bridge model) for a discounted price as well as upgrading the 6990m to a gtx 780m and installing a 128ssd for which I'd pay extra. Now my question is it worth upgrading the 2670qm to a Haswell model with the same clock speed?
I game frequently and am certainly looking forward to the new GTA (whenever it eventually comes to PC) which going off of history would be CPU intensive, as well as the new fifia/ witcher etc.. Would my current cou bottleneck a 780m basically and if so how much? And how much of a performance boost could I expect to receive should I upgrade?
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
thanks in advance.
liam

 

Upgrading to a Haswell model 'with the same clock speed' seems rather vague.

See:
ARK | Compare Intel® Products


(In the quick comparison above, the clock speed alone is a poor indication of the performance of the processor).


And no, you shouldn't be expecting a significant (in FPS) performance boost in games.

I would advise to not do this upgrade.

Sell the system for parts (as-is) and buy a new (complete) system instead - with full warranty and a fresh/clean install of the latest O/S and appropriate drivers.


This 'upgrade' that they're offering for a 'discounted' price is going to cost you an arm and a leg (in the long run) compared to the performance you can get by simply buying a new system.


Don't build a 'frankenpart' system (period).


If you can give more details of the costs and actual parts offered, my opinion may change - but as it is presented now, the only one to benefit will be the shop you're dealing with in the long run.


Good luck.

 

I wouldn't write off doing the upgrade. The GTX 780M is faster than the 6990M. While it's unlikely your current i7-2670QM processor is a bottleneck, a Haswell processor at the same clockspeed is going to be 10-20% faster.

The big question - how much is the upgrade?

 

Your title and post don't make sense. Don't you mean Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge, not Sandy Bridge to Haswell? Because Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge Mobile are Socket G2 while Haswell and Broadwell Mobile are Socket G3. If you're getting swapped to an Ivy Bridge mobo you can't put a Haswell CPU on it.

Also, the slowest Ivy Bridge i7, the 3630QM, is clocked 300-400 MHz higher than the 2670QM and about 25% faster overall owing to the increased clock speed and Ivy Bridge IPC improvements. That's not an insignificant boost. The 2670QM will bottleneck the GTX 780M in many games so I would try go for something faster. Ideally, you'll want something that can run in the 3.5-4 GHz range on all four cores to unleash the full potential of that GPU, and the 2670QM is only 2.8 GHz.

You've got a lot of choices depending on your budget and whether or not you plan to do any CPU overclocking, as overclocking can allow you to get a cheaper CPU and increase its performance to match that of a more expensive one. The 27xxQM, 28xxQM, 37xxQM, and 38xxQM have partially unlocked multipliers that will allow you to overclock them by up to 400 MHz, while the 29xxXM and 39xxXM are fully unlocked and can go as high as your power supply and cooling system can handle. Since they're two generations old and quite a bit cheaper now, the Sandy Bridge Extreme Edition chips look pretty good, especially if you can goose them past 4 GHz.

It would be a lot easier for us to advise you if you told us how much the repair shop is charging for the whole procedure and upgrades.

 

Sorry, I wasn't fully clear in my post. The machine is a new machine, with a clean install. And I misspoke in saying a "few other components". Essentially I'm getting a new machine with my old CPU and my old 750GB HD (on top of a new SSD).
Now I could go for a new CPU (4700qm) but after building it out on their website with all of the other components the same; I worked out that the difference would be about $400. So I suppose my question now would be: are the risks so great that I should pay the extra for the new CPU?
Again your advice is greatly appreciated, and I'm sorry about the lack of detail in my posts, I'm typing this out on my phone on the move so its hard to fully review them.

Hey octiceps. I've just seen your post as after I types out my last one.
Basically, I could get and P150em (ivy bridge model) with what I wrote above for around $1700 or a p150sm (haswell motherboard with 4700qm) for around $2100.
cheers.

 

So $1700 is:

1. Swapping your old HDD and i7-2670QM and a few other components into the P150EM chassis
2. Getting a GTX 780M to replace the dead 6990M
3. Getting a 128GB SSD

Where's the discount? Sounds like you're getting ripped off. You could get a completely new system for that kind of money.

 

The only other component would be the higher quality matte screen that I paid extra for last time, besides what I mentioned, hr also agreed to migrate my documents and movies, music etc. You think completely new machine is the way to go?
If I went for a new machine, do you think it would be better going for the 4700qm or would I get more bang for my buck with an ivy bridge or sandy bridge CPU? If so could you recommend one so I could look into the price?
Thanks again.
Liam

 

At this point in time it'd be stupid to get anything but a Haswell. We have a section where you can ask for buying advice.

 

Anything over ~$700 begins to put you in the drivers seat.

At the $2K level, you're the not just the driver, you're a rock star.

Take back your machine, sell it in pieces (if you have to) and buy from somewhere else.

There are ~$5 enclosures that you can put your old HDD in to get your data yourself. Once you have that data - do a wipe of the drive (with the free CCleaner...) and sell that off too...


With a new machine (again; not a frankenbuild) based on the latest Haswell chipsets, get as much cpu power as you can afford (if you want to be able to take full advantage of the gpu power you seem to want inside the new system).



Whatever you do: get it in your head that they (the shop you're dealing with) is not there to help you: they're only there to help themselves (at your expense).



Good luck.

 

Yes they are, I'm very much enjoying the performance from my 2920xm. You can pick one up fairly cheap these days as well.

 

Fail. You copied this verbatim from my post.

 

The 'upgrade' from Sandy Bridge to Haswell in IPC alone would be 'maybe' up to 15%.
Ivy Bridge yielded mostly 3-5% IPC increase over SB, while HW was up to 10% (under specific benchmarks) - I'm rounding it off at 15% increase (which is being generous, because it would be closer to 12%-14%).

So... from a CPU performance difference, the Haswell can feed the GPU up to 15% better at same clocks, but, if you get a higher clocked Sandy Bridge (such as as the extreme edition), you can achieve the same thing through overclocking.
Of course, the Haswell series CPU's are more energy efficient than SB, but from a performance point of view, I don't think the 2670qm would bottleneck the 780m (which is roughly 130% faster than the 6990m) - although I could be wrong.

The $400 difference between newest generation CPU and SB while literally offering up to 15% IPC increase at 200Mhz (another 10%) increase in clock speed is definitely not worth it if you ask me (seems like a rip-off).
Then again, the decision is yours.

Tilleroftheearth is correct when saying that they only worry about putting as much as possible of an expense on you - they aren't there to really help you.

As for the 'frankenbuild' - well, since we are talking about essentially new mobo and Haswell CPU (if you would go for that upgrade), then its not really a 'frankenbuild' as it would be basically a new system in regards to critical components, while the rest would be something you previously used.

Buf if you do go for that upgrade, the $400 difference doesn't necessarily seem too bad when you think about it.
The SSD is an added cost of maybe $110, and a completely new motherboard (of newest generation and a newest CPU).
The SSD cost is 1 thing, but the mobo and CPU to cost that much for the newest generation?
I don't think so.
It seems fishy, mainly because the difference between 2670qm and 4700qm in price tags at launch was approximately $10 (or less).
The upgraded mobo might be a factor, but I doubt the cost can be that much higher.

Seems to me they are trying to rip you off on the upgrade.
I wouldn't go above $150 to $200 (maybe) on the total upgrade - and I'd discuss this with them.
Unless it's the GPU (nvidia ones are expensive as is, and I can see them asking for a monetary difference on that).

 

Deks, I could be wrong - but they are not asking $400 to give back a working system - they are asking $1,700 for essentially what he has or another $400 to be in the 'current platform' territory... For $2,100...


If the above is the case, then what is his previous system worth? Negative $$$???


As for the cpu bottlenecking the gpu - yeah, it will happen even with the Haswell processors (hopefully to a lesser degree) - remember, we are not talking desktop cpu performance here - this is mobile chips and frankly, their performance leaves much to be desired, comparatively (and of course the amount of bottlenecking will depend on the workload/game title used).

 

That was actually a spammer. He won't be copy+pasting others anymore...

 

@OP

The only thing that's wrong with the laptop is the dead GPU right? Is the mobo dead too? If not, why is the shop even suggesting to not just replace the mobo but get a new system outright? It sounds like they want nothing but to fleece you and overcharge you 2-3X for stuff you don't even need.

If I were you, I'd just get a compatible Radeon 7970M/8970M off eBay or somewhere and put it in myself. Maybe even an i7-2920XM/2960XM while you're at it because they're a lot cheaper now. If you're not comfortable with the installation, have another shop to do it that charges reasonable prices but stay away from the one that currently has your laptop.

 

I'll give you a bit more background information. The laptop is back where I bought it from initially. My brother recommended them to me after buying a clevo there a couple of years ago.

I bought the laptop from them in February 2012. In January 2013 the graphics card started crashing and eventually siezed up completely when I was out of the country. I rang them and told them I wouldn't be able to get it to them within the warranty (I only went for the one year, stupid I know). They said it was ok and that they'd extend it until I got back. Once back in Australia I sent it back to them and they replaced the gpu free of charge as well as replacing the screen which had a small burn mark in without me even asking them too. So so far so good.

About three months later the gpu crashed completely and I couldn't even get the machine back on. I sent it back to them. I told them that I'd rather get a 7990 and they said it would be $500 for repair and replacement. I agreed to this and paid for I as it was now out of warranty.

It took up until a couple of weeks ago for then to get 7990s in stock and they emailed me when they got them telling me they were installing it and would test it over night and send it out the following day.

The next day, or the day after that, I can't remember, I received an email telling me that they had tried two 7990's in the machine, both of which had got graphical distortion and had eventually failed. The technician said he thought that there may be some discharge from the motherboard that was damaging the cards.
He said that he would test another motherboard with it as he didn't want to put another card in there and have another one damaged. I agreed to this but already at this stage I was thinking that it would probably be less hassle to just get a new machine as he quoted a new motherboard at being in between 400-500.

I asked him about the to quote me a new machine with a gtx780m and a new ssd. As well as keeping my old HD. Now currently they don't have the p150sm'a in stock but will be getting them back in at the end of the month. I know it would be the smarter option in the long run but I leave the country again at the start of next month and tbh I really wanted to take my laptop with me. Which I'd be able to as he has the em boards in stock now.
I'm working alot at the moment which takes up alot of my time and energy so I'm not sure how much I'd be able to devote to dismantling the current machine and selling it for parts though in an ideal world that is probably the best course of action.

Again thanks everyone for your input. Any more would be great.

 

I'm sorry, but I just cannot read your post. If you're gonna put a wall of text at least include proper formatting and punctuation. It's been a long day and I'm too tired to try to sift through all that in its current state.

 

Sorry, I'm at work and am typing typing it out on my phone so its hard to see what it'll come out like. I will try to change it when I have the chance.

 

I've fixed it up somewhat, hopefully it's a bit easier on the eye.

 

A 7990m doesn't exist. You can get a 7970m off ebay for $350 max.

Your reseller does not appear to be giving you any sort of discount on the new machine.

If they want to keep customers, they should offer to replace everything at cost + markup, not go nuts with a frankenbuild.

The hard drive is a non-issue, you can easily pop it into any new laptop you get. So you're not getting anything there.

You really have 2 options regarding your old laptop:

1. They cash you out for the parts that it is worth (a few hundred depending on what is salvageable) and put that towards a new machine (somewhat discounted) off their site.
2. They return your laptop in the best possible state they can fix it. This means actually finding out what is wrong with it, quoting you, and replacing that.

Anything else seems very sketchy. If you were going with option #1, you really shouldn't be paying more than $1500 for a brand new top of the line system [someone feel free to correct me, I haven't bought any Clevos lately...]

 

I'd recommend upgrading the GPU and ignoring Haswell. CPU performance bump is ridiculously small to worry about it. So unless the upgrade option is similar in price to a GPU upgrade on your current rig, I'd say nay. Another point to consider, haswell quads run hotter which is never a good thing. Also, your BIOS should support overclocking CPU, a cheap QS 2920xm would be a very good way to stay competitive for another couple of years. If anything, I'd rather upgrade to Ivy bridge and get something like a 3740QM + overclock by 400mhz and have a relatively cool and uber powerful machine

 

If this is the case, then yeah... $1700 or $2100 is a huge rip-off - it would be far simpler to just get a completely new system for that money.

As for the cpu's... performance difference between mobile and desktop cpu's of same generation is mainly in clock speed and TDP - everything else is basically the same.
The destkop cpu's will be less of a bottleneck because of its obvious clock advantage, but the mobile cpu's are powerful enough to feed the gpu adequately.
Having said that, given that the SB is not really a bottleneck to the GPU, I don't see the problem with it and 780m - but in this case, I don't think this entire situation is worth the hassle.

Its way too expensive and its just easier to get a new system than keep meddling in with these buffoons (no offense to the actual animals) who probably want to rip you off.