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    SSD mSATA cache - no IRST

    Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by davide445, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    I've read countless times "got a SSD replacement for your whole HDD" or "reinstall your OS into a SSD" or "move you OS partition into a SSD"

    But I don't want to do anything of that: a 512 GB SSD will be a waste of technology and money for my needs, and I don't have the skills, time and commitment to enter into the world of OS and or partitions configuration.

    So I wanted some simple SSD mSATA cache I can use to speed up my Lenovo X220, without touching my current HDD.

    I can't use Intel RST since the chipset don't support it. Lenovo ExpressCache its available only from X230. Searching for mSATA solution I can't go for Nvelo Dataplex. Read really bad things about VeloSSD. EnhanceIO it's only for Win Server. MS ReadyBoost appear to be not a solution.

    Also don't want a hybrid drive solution: the only retail available is Seagate Momentus Thin, mount only 8GB SSD cache (no retail availability of the 32GB cache version) and the HDD it's a 5600 vs 7200 of my current Hitachi.

    The only solution I found is MyDigitalSSD Super Cache 2 that contain a FNet Hybridisk license.

    Anyone does have idea if can be a good solution? Or if there are any other solution?
     
  2. Marksman30k

    Marksman30k Notebook Deity

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    I tend to find the vendor caching solutions are very unreliable and inefficient mostly because of the software. They were practically rendered obsolete when Intel released the IRST technology.

    For mSATA, I honestly don't think it is worth the effort to setup a caching system vs a 128gb mSATA and full install. On a good day, you'll get a performance speedup, on a bad day you will be tackling BSODs. Hell, IRST is as streamlined as it is and people still have problems.
     
  3. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    If I can't find any other solution than unknown Mydigitalssd probably I will go for OS install.

    But I'm a complete newbie, first I haven't the original installation CD, need I to create a recovery disc?

    Also there are any way to do all the process leaving my current OS installation untouched, so if something go wrong I can at least simply return to my previous config?

    Also I estimate my current OS installation it's about 90GB, I read will be better to don't use more than 50% of SSD space, a 128GB SSD will be anyway good for my needs?
     
  4. Marksman30k

    Marksman30k Notebook Deity

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    Well, the optimal performance bracket for 2.5inch 8 channel SSD designs is 256gb at the moment, Though I would imagine with mSATA you can get away with 128gb since most are 4 channel designs. However, 128gb is really tight for space so I would recommend 256gb.
    As for installation, is there a really good reason as to why you can't fresh install? If it is Windows 7 then what you do is download the Windows 7 ISO (there are a few floating around), you then use a free tool to find your OEM Cd-Key (unless it is on a sticker somewhere on your laptop) and Microsoft generally lets you reactivate the Windows installation via phone.

    However, if you are keen on migration, then I recommend whichever tool comes with your SSD. In this regard, Samsung and Intel have the best tools I've used to date, however, both will require you to pre-shrink your Windows Partition using Raxco's PerfectDisk beforehand.
    If you buy an SSD with no manufacturer migration tool then I recommend the Acronis Migrate HDD to SSD, I've used it on 3 occasions and the only problem that came out were a few OS bugs that got automatically corrected by Windows 7 itself.

    You will hear a lot of people arguing the pros and cons of migration but I believe it is a personal decision with no right or wrong answer.
    Migration is generally harmless if you use proven tools and you get the bonus of not needing to configure anything.
    Fresh install is the most foolproof against random unexplained errors but you lose a lot of time re-configuring.
     
  5. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    256GB obviously cost more than 128GB, apart from performance impacting implementations of the different vendors there are a general reason why bigger SSD can be better? The 50% empty space it's a point?

    I'm simply afraid about clean installation for too many open questions: I don't know where to find a Win7 ISO (it's legal?), I need also to find a specific one for my Lenovo (as I know he mount specific drivers etc)? Also I need after that to reinstall all my programs and reconfigure everything? This will be a real pain, and also I don't have a original Office CD (mine was a ex corporate laptop).

    Migration can be done using recovery disc? Using recovery I don't need to reinstall all my programs? The migration programs simply copy the directories I need to define or they also take care to discover where are the OS files that need to be migrated?
     
  6. Marksman30k

    Marksman30k Notebook Deity

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    The speed is to do with the number of available Channels enabled on the controller (think of SSDs as mini RAID arrays) and the number of NAND flash packages per channel asssuming the controller is the same. 256gb on 2.5inch drives is the minimum configuration that fills out the whole 8 channels with the maximum number of NAND packages per channel cost effectively. mSATA only uses 4 channels due to the size restraints so 128gb is the minimum, 256gb will require the use of higher density NAND which may be slightly slower but definitely more expensive. However, I don't recommend less than 256gb simply because you need breathing space.

    Usually drivers are found on the Lenovo website, and yes downloading ISOs is legit because it's the CD-key that matters. The reason Windows 7 has to be downloaded from third parties is because Windows 7 is no longer officially hosted by MS because they want to transition to windows 8.

    The built in migration in Windows 7 doesn't like migrating from HDD to SSD, you'll get a lot of errors.
     
  7. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    Benefits of a 'bigger' drive (240/250/256GB for 'older' drives - 480/512GB for 'latest' drives) are

    - the nand channels are fully populated and interleaved giving a very strong real world performance boost (sustained, over time...) vs. smaller capacity SSD's.

    - much, much higher total TB's written capacity limit (which is not linear with capacity bought in my experience - unless your workload is 100% constant...).

    - room for a real O/S + program installation... + free space (Windows needs at least 25GB free to operate optimally) + ~30% 'unallocated' capacity setup.



    Benefits of 'clean' install:

    - If you can't figure out what drivers to download (and what order to install them in... hint: download the Lenovo Solution Center and/or the ThinkVantage System Update to give you a head start), then you can 'pause' your upgrading pursuit and put in the original drive and continue using your system (almost any other method will leave you with a potentially crippled/unusable system).


    See:
    Lenovo Solution Center for Windows 8 (32-bit), 7 (32-bit) - Desktops, Notebooks, Workstations

    See:
    ThinkVantage System Update 5.02 for Windows 8 (32-bit, 64-bit), 7 (32-bit, 64-bit) - Desktop, Notebook, Workstation


    To download Windows 7 ISO's 'legally' - simply do a search to find this:

    See:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/win...-digitalriver-windows-7-sp1-13-languages.html



    Hope some of the above helps.


    Good luck.
     
  8. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    One thing that maybe I need to clarify: I don't want to substitute my HDD even with a clean OS install.

    mSATA SSD will have his OS installation and maybe some data and programs there, but the original HDD will remain in place to maintain all the other documents and videos I'm working on.

    This will change my clean installation or migration steps?
     
  9. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    That setup will greatly reduce the performance gain promised by going to an SSD...

    But what will change is that once the SSD is fully working (and thoroughly tested) - you will format the original HDD (after copy/backing up the data to at least two different locations - never trust a single copy - ever) and then use it purely as a data drive.

    Make sure that the original drive is not attached to the system when you are installing Windows to the new SSD.
     
  10. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    More I think about more I'm doubtful about the whole operation.
    Installing the new OS, reinstalling all my programs, redo all the old configurations and settings, formatting the old HDD a retransferring the old data...
    Will be a mess of time and prone to any kind of error.
    I think I will wait for some safe caching or hybrid solution to come out, next time I will buy directly a hybrid SSD+HDD solution with OS preinstalled into SSD.
     
  11. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    And the OEM SSD will most likely be garbage (vs. what is then available) and you'll be in the same performance/platform deficit that you are in now.

    Don't be lazy; learn something new, take a chance and maybe improve yourself and elevate your computing experience.

    Too hard? What - your time is that valuable?
     
  12. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    Simply my peace it's valuable as my time, don't want ending shouting to my unusable laptop after countless hours of frustrating and non understandable technical activity.
    Ok suppose I need to fresh install and that can be not so difficult. But: how many partitions on the SSD? And after finishing need I to delete the old OS installation from my HDD? I don't want to transfer back and for any data of the whole HDD.
     
  13. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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  14. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    I finally decided to go for MyDigitalSSD SC2, for $88 I can "test" the 64GB version, will let know how is going.
    Even if the speed will be not as a pure SSD installation will hopefully much better than my current HDD, and will avoid time consuming configurations.
     
  15. Quix Omega

    Quix Omega Notebook Evangelist

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    I guarantee that this will be more work than simply installing a new SSD and installing Windows on it.

    Every time someone tries to "save time" and do things lazily when it comes to computers, it just ends up working out poorly and requiring constant maintenance. Be prepared for a huge time sinkhole here.
     
  16. davide445

    davide445 Notebook Guru

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    It's not that I don't want to invest time into reinstall Win. I simply don't trust my skills into reinstalling everything. Winth a fresh Win installation I will need to reinstall Win, Office (I also doesn't have a Office installer, this was a corporate laptop) and every of the dozen of applications I got in the last couple of years.

    This mean days of work, and a lot of things not only to install but to reconfigure, and a lot of possible errors. A mess, and I don't understand if there are a way to avoid all this manual activity. Nobody here give me advice to easy all this steps or to avoid manual reinstallation of all the things. Not all here are geeks that love to be involved into a lot of technical details, maybe there are easy ways to do all.

    Caching if work doesn't need all of that. Will not speed as fast as a Win installation on SSD, but more than enough to make a lot of difference. And don't need a lot of knowledge. Just backup all, plug in the cache, activate the caching sw and restart working as always.

    I'm preparing all the possible backups and recovery systems are possible, hopefully I will not need it, but in case I will anyway experience a lot of reinstallation if something will became corrupted. But this will be the last, not the first, choice.

    I will let all know how is going.
     
  17. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    Your 'attitude' towards a clean install (or simply: 'doing it right') is that you want the benefits of modern tech, without the knowledge that is needed to use it fully. You are headed off a cliff without knowing why...


    A clean install involves:

    Remove your original HDD from the system (along with all other storage drives...).

    Install the new drive (HDD or SSD). Install the O/S, install the drivers, install the programs, install all Windows and program updates as applicable, then (finally), after thoroughly testing the new configuration, install your day to day data you need to keep you productive.

    At this point, you should have a much better O/S & Program installation than the original HDD/SSD you're replacing has. At any point in the above procedure - if you get stuck, simply remove the new drive and put in the old one and continue working as usual. When you've resolved the issue on the clean install, move to the next step as outlined above.


    While this may seem like days/weeks to get a new system up and running - it is usually a matter of a few hours (if you're installing the O/S from a USB key and your programs likewise), including updates, etc..

    You also have the benefit of having a 'live' backup if you really screw things up (and one that can't be touched with all your fooling around - if you've removed it completely as mentioned above).


    At the end of this; you'll have learned how easy/straightforward this really is. You'll also see the best performance possible from your new storage subsystem device.



    With the path you're following now: any mistake you make will have huge consequences on your only 'live' setup. This is more scary to me than having to learn a new/better method which you think is harder simply because you don't know what it really involves.


    So, you don't trust your skills to do things in the right way (with almost no chance of failure when all is said and done - assuming you know how to remove and replace a drive properly) - but you trust your skills with experimenting on your live install huh? Note that I'm not worried about your data being safe here (I hope you have multiple copies of it somewhere) - I'm worried about your only working setup going down the drain (and maybe/possibly unrecoverable too).


    To me, your logic does not hold water. Lazy is the label that most applies here.


    Tools you need for a proper clean install:

    Original Windows installation disk (recommend to create a USB bootable version)

    See:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/win...-digitalriver-windows-7-sp1-13-languages.html


    Free tool needed to create bootable USB drive:

    See:
    Microsoft Store


    Download latest drivers for your notebook (or, for example a Lenovo system, download the Lenovo Solution Center and/or the Lenovo Update tools to get the most important drivers for your system automatically).


    Install the programs you use/need (only) - including the following for 'most' setups:

    CCleaner
    Java
    Flash Player
    Quicktime Player
    Acrobat Reader


    Do all Windows Updates (including the 'optional' MS updates such as .NET 3.5 etc...)


    At this point, you'll have a very good idea how the new system is running (we should be around the 2-4 Hr mark here, depending on your internet connection for the updates...). If all seems good; go ahead and put your data on the system and enjoy.

    (I would recommend leaving the system on overnight with all sleep/hibernation disabled for the first few days for Windows to fully configure itself to your workstyle).

    (I would also highly recommend leaving at least 30% of the nominal capacity as 'unallocated' from the first installation attempt you do - if you want the system to stay as fast and responsive as possible (sustained, over time)).


    Hope some of this helps.


    Good luck.