Laptop won't boot - no activity other than flashing power button & led

Hi, looking for some tips/pointers for further troubleshooting.

My laptop won't boot. When powering on, the power button and power activity led would light up and immediately turn off. This flashing pattern repeats every ~5s and continues indefinitely until power is removed.

I've tried disconnecting AC, battery and CMOS along with pressing and holding power button for >30s.

I've also tried removing wlan card, ram, ssd, hdd, swapping ram dimms.

The very last thing I did before the laptop wouldn't boot was to try changing active cores from 6->4 within bios then hitting f10 to apply and exit. Prior to that it was fine.

It's a clevo p960rf with i7-9750h and rtx 2070 max-q.

battery voltage and cmos voltages are fine. No prompt of 'no boot media detected' or similar when hdd is removed.

 

It sounds like clearing the CMOS didn't really clear it. This can be difficult to accomplish on newer laptops. Certain settings get saved "permanently" and clearing NVRAM doesn't actually clear everything in terms of restoring factory defaults. Certain values are persistent once changed. This is one of the many things that suck about newer laptops. I wish we could go back to the old days when firmware was simple and nothing was ever permanent. It was much better the old way, before UEFI filth.

The fastest and easiest (and perhaps ONLY) solution would be to use an SPI programmer to force flash firmware with defaults to the BIOS chip. You would need someone with the same system to dump their chip using an SPI programmer for a "dirty" flash or have someone prepare you a clean bin file that can be flashed using an SPI programmer.

 

Thanks mr fox. I have been able to clear cmos before using the remove battery method and also the fn+d keys method. Not sure what’s different this time but will try hardware flashing.

i’ve got a clean bios backup from before any changes were made. That should work with spi yeah? Do you have any links or guides you’d recommend for first time spi flasher? I ordered one previously and it’s coming in the mail soon. Have seen a few guides but they’re quite varied in tools and approaches.

 

If you took a chip dump before that should be fine. It depends on how you made the backup.

The important thing is to identify the chip correctly, and the SPI flasher may do it automatically. If not, get a magnifying glass that will allow you to read the tiny print on the chip to see which one it is. Read from firmware from the chip and save it just in case (even though the save settings are wrong).

Is your Clevo the AMI or Insyde BIOS?

 

Original backup was via fpt in windows. Have a bios-only dump and a full dump.

Mine has the insyde bios.

 

Let me see if I can find out if there is anything that would prevent you from using an SPI flasher with Insyde BIOS since I have not done that. I have only flashed AMI and GPU BIOS.

 

Thanks in advance! Really appreciate the assistance.

 

Sure, glad to help. I will reply back as soon as I find out, maybe later today but possibly tomorrow.

 

That is not an option in the stock BIOS. It would not be an exposed menu option on a proper BIOS unlock.

OK, you can use the SPI programmer. I was concerned that maybe Clevo has used Intel BIOS Guard cancer like Dell has, but they have not.

Be very careful using unlocked BIOS hacks modded by amateurs as you can end up bricked again by applying settings that are not applicable to your system. That is what seems to have happened here. At the least, be ready with the SPI programmer and a clean firmware file ready for flashing, as you could end up needing it.

 

oh.. so you reckon that's why it won't boot. still curious about why it doesn't reset itself when all power is removed though. personally was quite baffled that after all the things i was doin to the laptop, its was this bios 1 setting change that got it stuck. In terms of the other changes, i wouldn't necessarily rule it out but i did have the laptop running a full day with multiple reboots prior to the last change to active cores. timeline of other changes:

• cpu undervolt using throttlestop, gpu undervolt using afterburner. settings only apply after booting into OS and starting respective applications.
• LM -> laptop has had LM for a couple of months now. i initally did it without barrier because i tried foam but didn't have the right type/thickness and had bad contact. i re-applied recently and did the kapton tape straw barrier when i saw your post on it.
• mild mem OC -> my mixed ram sticks wouldn't tolerate much OC, got it from 2666->2800, have used it on this setting for 2 weeks
• shunt mod -> 18-24 hours, survived multiple reboots. laptop gpu able to draw more than rated power but laptop ultimately power limited to ac adapter & platform power limit of 180w. reverted this as part of troubleshooting my 'can't boot' problem.
• active cores: 6->4, part of my experimentation with shunt mod. was contemplating buying beefier ac adapter but in the meantime wanted to try limiting cpu power consumption so i can test out gfx limits with undervolt in afterburner. i did not physical move laptop before/during/after this setting change so not likely to be LM shorting anything. i also confirmed there was no LM leak as part of troubleshooting. laptop wouldn't boot immediately after saving this last setting.

How i got the option to show up is i used h2oueve to set "Setup Menu Insyde Full Show" from hide to show. bios itself was unlocked (able to flash using fpt) but this setting wasn't visible prior to edit.

good to know. and yeah i do see a bios setting for bios guard and it was disabled.

i'm the amateur in this case *sheepish grin*. i'll definitely be more careful about what settings i meddle with after i recover it this time

still waiting on my spi programmer. estimated delivery is next monday.

was looking at this link on how to do it. is it really just clip it on and run a command providing my backup img file? https://www.win-raid.com/t4287f16-G...H-A-SPI-Programmer-Flasher-With-Pictures.html

i do still need to find where the chip is on the mobo.

 

Kudos for your adventurous way, bro. That's how we make it to greatness. Having a good SPI programmer dramatically diminishes the danger of tinkering. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I have only used programmers like the SkyPro and TL866, not the small USB thumb drive type. They usually come with software that is very useful.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/XGecu-TL86...FLASH-AVR-MCU-GAL-SPI-10-Adapter/202292773957

https://www.newegg.com/p/2S7-00VK-00B41?item=9SIADG45WH9977

Settings that will be particularly "dangerous" and may require an SPI flash recovery relate to the Intel GPU and switchable graphics. Those will easily brick your system if you're not careful.

The BIOS chip should be somewhere near the CPU. It will be an 8-pin SOIC chip, but there are other things that have similar chips (like Thunderbolt BIOS chip). If you pull the firmware from the chip you believe to be the BIOS you can open it in a hex editor or SPI flash software and compare the code at the beginning of the file to what you dumped with ftp and verify you have the correct chip for the motherboard BIOS.

If you are going to be flashing GPU vBIOS chips you also should have a 1.8V adapter.

 

cheers! and definitely noted on the igpu/switchable graphics. i know my display is wired direct to igpu. seems only the newer gen stuff comes with mux switch feature.

will keep those spi programmer links handy. i'll test out the one i've got on the way but it is one of those usb thumb drive types. would be a shame if it turns out a dud cuz i paid about the same as your 2nd link. price of trying to get it locally for quicker shipping.

 

Here is some useful information regarding the inability to clear CMOS/reset NVRAM on newer laptops, and how it can be dangerous to tinker with settings on modern trashbooks without access to an SPI programmer.

BIOS and Tuning: Warning and Guide
by Tom Fichtner, Schenker Technologies GmbH

While it was published by a representative of Schenker, the same warning applies to all notebook owners. The firmware architecture being utilized by notebook manufacturers is severely flawed. People with these systems either need to buy an SPI programmer or use only an excellent software solution (that does not have APIs that write values to the BIOS) such as ThrottleStop.

This firmware engineering defect also makes the concept of most users having a BIOS mod with all of the menus exposed (instead of carefully selected menus) especially hazardous. The fault for this issue rests with the BIOS authors (Award/AMI, Insyde, etc.) and not the notebook manufacturers.

TL;DR - buy an SPI flash programmer and learn how to use it. Take a BIOS dump and save it in a safe place before you start tinkering. That's not new advice, it's just more important than it used to be.

@Papusan @jc_denton @B0B @OWNORDISOWN @unclewebb @Spartan@HIDevolution @Johnksss @thattechgirl_viv @Donald@zTecpc @Prema

 

It's interesting that 10th gen chips become unbootable with -80mV, I have a suspicion this is due to TVB and VID optimization being enabled at default.

"VID optimizations allow the CPU to reduce its requested VID by 1.5mv, every 1C temp drop, starting at 100C and going down to 0C. Therefore, there is a 150mv VID spread, between 100C and 0C. So as the processor cools, the requested VID decreases."

So instead of the -80mV you actually get around -150mV with the VID optimizations, which in turn causes the CPU not to initialize. Since this undervolt subtracts the VID voltage throughout the entire frequency/vid table.

At least that's my speculation for it as of now.

 

This! I have warned about XTU before but some say it isn't dangerous. Yeah, just undervolt until you get BSOD/freze and pray to God that it will boot afterwards ThrottleStop is the Gods gift. @unclewebb

Can even software tools cause such a scenario? Yes, even certain tuning software (including Intel XTU), using standardized Tuning/Overclocking APIs are able write values into the BIOS that are not able to revert if the system becomes unbootable.

 

I know that there have been some noobs that have claimed ThrottleStop bricked their systems. While that is ludicrous, what most likely happened is they used ThrottleStop to apply temporary settings that were inappropriate and unstable with XTU installed before using ThrottleStop. I suspect what happened was XTU somehow pushed their unstable ThrottleStop settings to the BIOS. To avoid any nonsense XTU should be removed with a program such as Revo Uninstaller or RegOrganizer. Programs that use XTU (trashbook "Control Center" garbage) services and APIs are also questionable and may cause problems.

 

So this is what owning a laptop in 2020 is like, truly disgusting.

 

Yes. Disgusting is a kind way of putting it.

 

This is disgusting as well. If they don't support overclocking then stop the small talk about the advantage of the more expencive unlocked chips.

Conclusion: we do not support Overclocking on our laptops. Any attempt at Overclocking might void your warranty.

 

Yes, that is bad. Very bad. What is worse though is the person that doesn't even want to overclock. They only want a system that does not overheat. They want to find their max stable undervolt, and in the process, they brick their laptop and cannot reset the CMOS simply because the firmware developer provided a flawed product to the companies selling laptops. And, they find out later that they should have had an SPI programmer and chip dump for backup. The brick won't (shouldn't) be covered under warranty, but now they have to pay for the repair at a cost much greater than an SPI programmer that they never knew they needed.

And, even worse yet... they listened to some idiot on Reddit that told them ThrottleStop would brick their system, recommending that they use XTU instead. Little did they know, had they used ThrottleStop to begin with (for undervolting or for overvolted overclocking) they would not have had any problems. They would not have to pay for a repair not covered by warranty, and they would not have to worry about the warranty being voided. All they needed to do was use ThrottleStop, ignore the bad advice from an idiotic noob on Reddit, and everything would have been A-OK.

 

Did someone summon me?
I heard someone talking about VID and boot loops and unstable bios settings in the void somewhere...

Certain settings are saved in low level NVRAM like Mr Fox said. And a "Clear CMOS" doesn't always clear these settings. It just restores the UEFI options, but if something is still in an unusable state, that may not make it usable. One example is trying to disable the MEBX (Management Engine bios extensions) in an unlocked BIOS and then having it "stuck in an error state", when you tried to re-enable it, which SVET had to fix for me by rewriting the BIOS with his confidential tools.

Prema Bios options are tested and working as stable in options exposed to the user. For stock Bios, unlocking options that are not tested has its risks. The reason "most" unlocked options in MSI Bios work is that MSI tests the options that are unlocked by the "4 finger salute" key combination, so most won't soft brick the BIOS.

Even on desktops, there is a right way and wrong way to clear a CMOS.
Just powering off and pressing the clear CMOS button for half a second does nothing but wipe the UEFI. NVRAM settings may not be reset properly (e.g. some strange low level RAM settings or other strange stuff like on Asus or Gigabyte boards). The proper way is to unplug the power supply/power supply rocker switch, wait 30 seconds, then hold the clear cmos button (Or short the jumper) for 20 seconds. That usually fixes most stuff.

MSI has a pretty "Decent" recovery on most of their GT (G73VR, GT75VR, GT75 Titan) laptops of a clear cmos, by holding down the power button for 60 seconds. This wipes everything, including the current time/date, so that's how you know it works. I don't know if this works if you try to set a manual "0 volts" into a CPU however. I saw someone brick a GS66 this way and the "power button" trick failed to recover the board at all. They had to tear it down completely. I think this type of recovery matters on if the EC is capable of overriding the 0 volts mistake and putting a proper vcore into the CPU. I mean I entered a too low vcore once (I think like 0.5v or something) and had to power button clear CMOS, but 0.5v isn't 0v...

 

That's a useful write-up from Schenker about the scenarios where an offline reset can't recover the machine. In my case I guess "number of active cores" also falls into the "advanced" no-reset category. Thanks!

p.s. spi programmer still somewhere in transit.

 

would you happen to know of any other common reset methods aside from disconnect all power and hold power button for 30s or longer? though i've tried removing all power sources for up to a full day at this point.

 

Sorry I don't have a clevo. If @Mr. Fox doesn't know, it doesn't exist.

 

Refer to what is posted here and the associated document. This is not a "Clevo" issue. It is something that is now occurring universally due to screwed-up firmware engineering. It affects newer laptops with Award and Insyde BIOS and it is not OEM-specific. Older systems are not affected. It may also explain why some laptop OEMs are choosing to lock down undervolting capabilities, even using Windows programs, just to save themselves the headaches of having to help customers sort their problems.

 

Remind me not to get one of these newer systems .

@OP, I know you mentioned you removed the CMOS battery. But have you tried turning the machine on while the CMOS battery is out?

 

Yeah I’ve tried that variation. Just checked again to be sure. Same no-boot/post behaviour. Just power led flashing periodically.

 

EVGA and ASUS desktop motherboards even have a feature that allows you to reflash the BIOS on a bare motherboard with no CPU, GPU or RAM installed, only power needs to be connected. There is no legitimate excuse that this is not possible on all computers, whether desktop or mobile. This should be a standard bit of functionality on all PCs.

 

The $5 usd increased costs is hard to swallow for the joke book makers.

 

I hate to ask, but how did your laptop exactly get screwed over? Arent there any local stores that can do cmos modding?

 

Asking me? I changed active cores from 6 to 4 in bios and laptop wouldn’t boot after applying that change.

There would be local stores but I would guess they’ll ask for a couple hundred dollars to fix it.

 

Ya I hate it when local stores ask for that amount... might try facebook or craigslist to see if anyone will do it there to.

 

I’ll try that if I can’t work it out. I should have my spi programmer by Monday.

 

Re-flashed my bios and back in business! Thanks all & especially @Mr. Fox for the help!

*fixed borked formatting due to using tapatalk on mobile.

 

Great news. Glad to hear it.

 

Hello guys Im hoping that you can help me I have an Omen 15 i8750h with a GTx 1060 max Q that took a bad vbios flash using nvflash64.exe
this laptop has a dedicated GPU and no igpu option Hp stated thats only for gtx 1050 or lower
After the bad vbios flash I have a black screen I cannot get into bios I aquired a ch341a usb programmer and clip with 1,8v adapter I dont know
Wether to flash the vbios file or regualr hp system bios
and I dont know if there are seperate chios for my mothoer board L10770-601
So my dilemma flash a vbios file or bios file and where is it ? I hope someone can help me out I really love this laptop and right now in this pandemic I gotta try and restore it please help out

 

A few questions:

• Did you save a backup of the original vBIOS? If not, you will need to get one from someone with the same product. They can dump it with NVFLASH or GPU-Z.
• Have you tried an external monitor? It is common on laptops for the output mapping to be disrupted when flashing a foreign vBIOS and it is possible you may get display output on a monitor or TV over HDMI while you are working this out. If so, you can use NVFLASH to re-flash a stock vBIOS.
• The vBIOS chip should be near the GPU on the motherboard and will look like the image below (although the name and numbers printed on it may differ). Pin #1 has a dot next to it. You can use the programmer to dump the firmware and view it in a hex editor to confirm you have the right chip. You will find something like the name "NVIDIA" in the code near the top.

 

Hello Mr Fox need your help I have pics of 2 chips i found one near the gpu its and MXIC 25U4033E M1I-12G and the other is on the far left of the motherboard away from the GPU AND and CPU way on the other end of the motherboard its a winbond 25Q80DVSIG 1806 I was gonna try to upload pics here but the forum says upload not available. I managed to read the MXIC 25U4033E and it does have vbios in the hex file which comes in at 532kb ..i believe that file is too big and might be the bad vbiso flash ...the issue i have now is I tried to flash a ce198w vbios onto the chip and I got an verification code 18 error I was using asprogrammer to read and attempt the write onto the chip but it says error failed verification 18. Im so close but i dont know what to do now.

 

Are you using a voltage adapter? The verification error may be simply that the programmer cannot verify the code that was written to the chip. Have you tried to boot again with what you wrote to the chip? If not try it.

 

To be honest it wouldnt even write to the chip it just says error validation code 18 but the weird thing is that it does read the mxci 25u4933e chip but it wont write to it..another thing found its the vbios inside the chip is above 500kb and the one for the ce198wm gtx 1060 max q is half the size around 233kb.
1 That error code it wont write but it does read the chip
2 The vbios inside is double the size Im not sure but i believe thats why it failed to black screen the
actual Omen 15 ce198wm bios is 233kb or 232kb GTX 1060 max q
3 Im suing a 2.0 usb port on and old lenovo do you thinks its underpowered
4 I have a 1.8v adapter but I dont know how to use it I tried the ch341a with the clip solo and thats how i got it to read..

 

I tried even the Ch341a software program it said chipwith not in agreement ...I used the 1.8v adapter it reads the chip but wont write another vbios to it. It all reads vga bios in hex code .Im thinking maybe using a usb 2.0 is the issue maybe not enuff current ?
I put it all back power in rgb keyboard fans are on still black screen. I really am so close just need help.

 

Might have already damaged the chip if you didn't use the 1.8v adapter..
Are you sure all pins are making proper contact on the clip?
Maybe you are better off ordering a ZIF socket for the chip and program it desoldered from the pcb..

 

But I used the 1.8v adapter it reads the bad vbios and saves but when I try to write to chip it says Verfication error on Addresss:00000018 then execution time 0:00:00.
in Asprogrammer..I dont believe the chip would read the vbios on there and save it if its damaged its gotta be something other. Is there anyone or anywhere i can get a pre flashed vbios chip.

Heres a pic of what I believe to be the system bios chip Winbond 25Q80DVSIG 1806

 

The problem may be the programmer itself. I use a TL866A and have not had any trouble. If you are using one of the inexpensive USB stick type programmers it, or the software it uses, may not be working correctly.

You could flash a new chip off the motherboard using a standalone programmer with a socket then solder it on. SPI programmers like the TL866A generally come in a kit with an assortment of sockets.

 

Got any links to a good one with clip I guess a 1.8v model TL866A and what software do they use? ..I dont have a soldering iron I guess if you could recommend whatever flux ,quikchip, iron smallest tip w proper , safest wattage for laptops unless you recommend heat gun man ..truth be told this is a tiny chip Id be willing to mail the motherboard if I cant do it to you if you could do it that would be great to then Id just the mobo install it back on

 

Update My Omen 15 is back baby yes ..I had to unprotect , erase x write, verify the vbios Mx chip I appreciate all your help and input guys thanks! @Mr. Fox @senso @B0B Bob of All Trades for pointing me here awesome sight for help and info.

 

Awesome job! I knew you could do it.

I have been insanely busy at work, and with a special project outside of work. I barely have enough time to sleep and use the bathroom right now. I apologize for not seeing/replying to your previous question. But, I am glad to see you figured it out without my response. Way to go, bro.

@Papusan @senso and @B0B will always give good advice. They're super-smart guys.

 

Thanks bud your insight was appreciated and I totally understand the hectic work situation were all in a grind be safe and God Bless hope we all share better days soon with family and friends and our mutual enthusiasm of PC/ Laptops on Notebook Review forums

 

Hi @TheSentry I responded to you on another forum but am facing the same problem as you; I have the exact same model laptop as you and had a bad vbios flash, I am purchasing the same chip programmer as you linked, it seems like the right one, but I am lost with what to do, I have read through everything, though not sure where to find the vbios MX chip. Do I need to remove entire motherboard from my laptop shell? Or just the heatsink to find it?
I've never used a chip programmer before and am a little wary, but your posts give me hope that it's possible to recover!!! I feel so lucky to see someone with literally the exact laptop and problem I have, I scoured the internet trying to find info and only have you to bring me hope!