Hard Drives: 7200RPM or 5400RPM + mSATA SSD?

Hello there guys! I'm thinking about buying a notebook, and one thing bothers me, both notebooks I want, Lenovo Y580 ( IdeaPad Y580 15.6" Laptop | Shop | Lenovo | (US))
And HP DV6T ( HP Pavilion dv6t-7000 Quad Edition Entertainment Notebook PC | HP® Official Store) can have up to 1TB 5400 RPM HDD + a 32GB SSD (for some caching magic it seems), or a 7200RPM HDD (don't know why I can't add a SSD to this 7200RPM HDD...). So guys, what do you think is better?

 

If you're a bit of a tinkerer, you could get the 7200RPM and add a mSATa SSD with a larger capacity yourself. That's what i'd personally do, provided the mSATA slot is easily accessible in the laptop.

 

Why don't they allow us to buy a 7200RPM + a SSD?

 

Because no one would buy their leftover stock of 5400 HDD's.

 

I see... but On HP's site it says it's not compatibile! Try it for yourself through that link!

Very strange!

But which would be faster, 7200 or 5400 + SSD ?

 

Without a doubt the 32GB SSD + 5400 RPM combo will blow away any 7200 RPM HDD - even a Hybrid (8GB SSD cached) HDD like the Seagate 750GB model.

Both are (much) below the sustained/overall performance you can expect with a 256GB or larger 'real' SSD like a Crucial M4 or an Intel 520 Series or a Samsung 830 series SSD 'solution'.

Good luck.

 

So should I stick with the 7200RPM option? It costs about the same. Isn't it louder, and hotter than the 5400 + SSD?

 

In todays world the 5400 RPM drives are obsolete. Profitable only for storage and/or backup.

 

5400 is mostly for lower energy consumption and larger capacity storage.
The cache will give you much better read/write speeds than the 7200 though.

I'd say go for the cheaper option and put in your own SSD to get the best of both worlds.

 

7200 RPM vs. 5400 RPM energy consumption:

In the last few years (at least 3 and up to 5 yrs depending on what drives we're comparing....):

Considering that both drives are the latest or up to one generation older than the one we're comparing them to (each other) - I have not seen any real world differences in energy consumption - 5400 RPM drives did not add any appreciable battery life to any of my notebook systems. Nor did any 7200 RPM drives add to the temperature of what the notebooks normally ran at.

(The caveat is that I only bought/upgraded to the highest quality drives - Hitachi/WD - and they were installed in systems that were designed to cool them properly too).

What I did find is that as Krane mentions: 5400 RPM drives are obsolete: I think 2009/2010 is the last time I had any notebook with such slow drives (up to 60% slower than a 7200 RPM drive).

Today, even with their small capacities: SSD's are finally faster in real world use than a HDD (so the compromises in capacity are finally worth the benefits of the speed increase SSD's give).

What SSD's have mostly offered my usage style is the regular maintenance that Win7x64 needs (mostly monthly updates) and the huge speed up in startup/shut down has been increased by a huge margin - up to 10x faster (for example updating .Net versions).


The reason an mSATA+ 7200RPM drive is not offered (at least by your HP link) is that the 7200 RPM drive is a Hybrid drive (Seagate Momentus Hybrid 8GB SSD + 750GB HDD capacity) and HP simply does not want to validate the use of both caching algorithms for it's products (and infinite possible uses).

Good luck.

 

The reason is probably that the 7200RPM drive you are selecting is the Momentus XT hybrid drive, and they don't want you mixing an SSD cache with a drive that has its own NAND cache like the Momentus XT. I'm actually curious how that kind of setup would behave, though.

In any case, your options are: get the SSD+5400RPM and swap in a 7200RPM on your own, or just get the hybrid drive and be done with it. You'll be fine either way.

 

Well, so actually the 7200RPM drive already has a SSD for caching! So it's clearly better than the other one! Thanks for your help guys!
And BTW, is that HP notebook good? I was thniking about this one, has a bigger screen (17.3"), and it's just as the one I'd customize: HP Pavilion dv7-7012nr Entertainment Notebook PC | HP® Official Store

 

Actually, the 32GB cache will still be better than the 4/8GB cache on a momentus XT, more space = more thing in the cache and more things will load at SSD like speeds. Once you're only using the platter HDD and not the cache, then the 7200RPM will outperform the 5400RPM.

 

Yeah, I know that the bigger, the better, but between 5400 + 32GB vs 7200 + 8gb it seems the second is a far better option

 

Not necessarily. Remember that the latency between the two HDDs is only about 1.5 ms. That is not very much unless you are frequency accessing data and, in that case, a larger NAND flash cache will do you much good. IMO, not only is the second option not far better, it is not better at all.

 

Greatly increased platter density will make a 5400 RPM perform near a 7200RPM of lesser platter density. mSATA cache drive will make most everything respond like an SSD except for rarely accessed files or huge files.

 

OMG, so what now? This is getting very confusing =(

 

It would help if you did not go on size. In electronics, size usually does not matter. We all learned through reading and listening. The same would apply to you

So according to me and if I may speak for the two others here, the 5400 hDD will be more useful for you. I and judging by what the others have said, them, would recommend getting the 5400 HDD.

 

the same as anyone else: now you make a decision. After all, its your money.

 

But this is very hard, because you actually didn't point out the pros and cons of both configs... some people said X is better, while some said Y is better. This doesn't help at all! If I knew that X is better on this and that, while Y is gets and advantage here, and there, it would be easier to decide between both. Size is not really that important, anything over 500GB is fine for me!

 

Your questions have been answered: learn to read for comprehension.

To put each in perspective (w/regards to notebooks):

5400 RPM drives will bring you to 2004 technology (storage sub-system) level.

7200 RPM drive will bring you to 2009/2010 technology (storage sub-system) level.

Hybrid HDD will bring you to 2010/11 technology (storage sub-system) level.

32GB mSATA cache + 5400 RPM HDD will bring you to 80% of 2012 technology (storage) level.

256GB or larger SSD's (though not all...) will bring you to state of the art 2012 levels in all aspects of storage performance.


How do you decide? With the size of your purchasing power.

 

So you're saying that 5400+mSATA is better? That's what I want! It's a simply question, I don't want to know which year i'm at, but which one is better (there are things made in 2010 that are better than new things lol). They cost the same, that's why i'm asking it!

 

Yes: everyone is saying that!

 

Between the 2 I would go msata + secondary HDD as I need alot of storage. Put OS on the msata (although 32GB is a tight fit) and use the HDD for data.

But being that I could NEVER use less then 60GB for an OS drive Id say go for a hybrid drive since the 32gb msata wouldnt work for an OS drive.

 

Thanks then, i'll get a 5400RPM + 32GB of cache.

 

Good choice, consider that with 32GB of cache you can fit windows, your frequently used programs and likely one game in there as well. Those will all perform at SSD like speeds, for the rest, media files aren't something you care about that much in terns of HDD speed and the less frequently used programs are as the name says not used often so longer load times will not make you cringe every day.

 

and does lenovo enables you to remove the drive from the cache job that is into?

I havent fiddled around this cache thing, thus the question

 

Does the cache drive act like another hard drive? I thought it stored whatever files you used the most, and replaced them.
I am interested in getting one to use as a normal SSD, there seem to be some larger capacity drives available now. Is this possible?

 

you can get up to 256gb of storage now on the msata SSDs.

 

Well guys, it seems there's another option:
1.5TB 7200 rpm Dual Hard Drive + 32GB mSSD Hard Drive Acceleration Cache !

What I don't get is why they don't allow me to do this with a 750GB HDD, but do on a 1.5TB one. This seems to be the best option available, right?

 

By default, the mSATA SSD will be installed as cache and there will be a layer of software responsible for analyzing your usage patterns and putting whatever you use the most in that cache. It's likely possible to remove the caching software to use the mSATA as a regular SSD and even replace the mSATA SSD for a larger capacity drive.

Is that a 17" notebook, looks like that option is a dual 7200RPM 750GB + mSATA SSD configuration. They probably allow that config for those who need a lot of HDD space and are willing to pay for it hence the 7200RPM drives.

 

That option is 2x 7200 RPM (regular, not Hybrid) HDD - each 750GB for 1.5TB total.

I would agree that that is the best option: because then you are guaranteed to have the required caddy and SATA cable necessary for a second HDD for when you want to upgrade either or both of the HDD's with SSD's.

Definitely gets my vote (at almost any price above a single drive configuration).

 

Yes, it is a nice option and if you replace one of the drives by say a SSD, put in an enclosure and you have an external for backups. That is what i do with my old HDDs, i put them in enclosures and use them for backups, good enclosures are dirt cheap anyways.

 

Well, so those drives are o Hybrid like the single 750gb option? That's strange, they should offer a single regular 7200RPM too. And, I was thinking, could those drives be put in a RAID 0 + 32GB SSD as cache? That would surely perform very well!

 

No, it seems like the dual 7200 RPM drives are not Hybrid drives like the single 7200 RPM drive option is.

Unless the system was used as a video editing workstation, RAID0 for the 2x 750GB HDD's would make no difference to the overall 'feel' of the system - especially with the speed up the 32GB mSATA SSD will offer.

Also, the chipset used in almost all the notebooks I have seen so far with the most commonly used IB cpu (the i7 3610QM), while supporting RAID configurations, is not supported by the notebook manufacturers (in the BIOS) - a somewhat notable exception is the MSI notebook that actually offers an mSATA RAID0 configuration.

See:
MSI GT70 0ND-214US w/ i7-3610QM, 16GB, 128GB SSD, 750GB, Blu-Ray, 17.3in HD, GeForce GTX 675M, Win 7 Home Premium 64-bit at Memory Express


To emphasize the point once again: a RAID0 configuration when a system is already enhanced with an mSATA caching SSD will offer little to no additional performance increase (except very specific situations like HD video editing/etc.) and may actually slow the system down for bootup/shut down operations too (because of having to initialize the RAID controller at startup - if the manufacturer even allows/enables that feature).

 

Thanks for the help!

Another thing, do you guys think it is worth to upgrade the 17.3" to 1920x1080? It seems that at this resolution, we only have the matte screen option, while the default resolution is a glossy screen. I've never had a notebook before, but I think glossy screens are better, aren't they?

 

Screens depend on the person. Some prefer glossy, some matte. I have a glossy on my laptop connected to an external monitor that is matte right now. I can see a bit of a dull on my external (which agrees with what the opinion is out there) but you can always fix that by increasing brightness.

The resolution - on a 17.3 I would get the 1920x1080 upgrade. If the only tradeoff is the screen type, I would definitely recommend the upgrade.

 

Well guys, I've been seriously thinking, this option (1.5TB 7200 + 32gb SSD) turned out to be much more expensive than what I thought it would be. I achieved this configuration customizing this notebook: HP Pavilion dv7t-7000 Quad Edition Entertainment Notebook PC | HP® Official Store and it ended up costing 1455 dollars. I can get the same configuration, except the 1.5TB + SSD (instead it comes with a 750GB 7200 RPM, that must be that hybrid drive) for 1174, which is 281 dollars cheaper, and besides, the tax that will be lower. Link: HP Pavilion dv7-7012nr Entertainment Notebook PC | HP® Official Store

So well, is this 32GB SSD + 7200 RPM worth 281 dollars? I know i'll be getting 750GB of extra storage, but 500Gb would be fine to me, I don't see why I need 1.5TB, I was only choosing it because it was the only way of achieving the 7200RPM + SSD combo. I don't know if the price is right, but it turned to be prety expensive to achieve this combo...

 

Hi I have just bought an Alien ware M17x r4 I got a 500gb 7200rpm +32gb msata caching ssd from what I have read the 32gb ssd just makes you're hard drive perform better by loading up your most used applications faster as for boot up times I'm not to sure if its the processer or the 32gb caching drive but my system boots in 30 seconds. I will be getting a ssd soon and putting 500gb drive into 2nd bay but even then if you have it configured right it will still keep the 7200rpm drive working faster.Hope that helps

 

Using the link to the DV7-7012nr, I find the option to choose either a mSata 32GB or a 160 GB SSD. Looking at the HP manual for the Lappy, it also shows the two being used by the same adapter. So is the 160 a mSata too? If so, you would be able to get a normal HDD and a larger mSata to use as an OS drive, thereby speeding up your system. And if this is the case, you could get a larger aftermarket drive and not only save $ but have a much better and faster system.

Google only shows me that HP is not very forthcoming on their info. Nowhere did I find any specs on the 160GB SSD. But it shows that it and the 32GB use the exact same adapter.

Again, if they are the same (both mSata) then you can get your own later and save money, and pick a larger size to put your OS on, get a normal 7200 HDD for storage and have a great system for less than buying everything installed from HP. For $281 you can get a nice 256GB SSD and a second HHD or even a 128GB SSD with a second HHD and still keep some cash.