Core 2 Duo ULV compatible whit VGN-SZ48GN?

Is the Core 2 Duo ULV U7700 compatible whit the Sony Vaio SZ48GN laptop? I read that the ULV is made for the 945GM chipset but whit the M0 stepping that has "Intel Dynamic Front Side Bus Frequency Switching" lower idle speed and less watt used in idle to.


But my question is. Will it work whit on a VGN-SZ48GN model?

 

Are you sure you want to go from a 2ghz system to a 1.7ghz (that is what the ULV specs call for)?

cheers ...

 

Is that laptop having Socket P or Socket M CPU socket?

Because all those ULV CPUs I've seen are BGA-mods for Socket M (old Napa systems)

Even if the sockets fit - beware that all ULV CPUs found on e.g. e-bay, etc... are BGA-mods, which means that the pins were not factory-made, but instead they were soldered manually to the CPU, since all ULV CPUs come in BGA (Ball Grid Array - for soldering on the motherboard) packages for OEMs.

Problem with those BGA mods is that the quality of the job is often very poor (and, in general - the quality can't be high since it is a manual re-work) and the soldered pins tend to fall off.

I'd stay away.

Actually, you can make "ULV" chip by yourself without changing the CPU, by undervolting and limiting the maximum frequency.

For example, if your CPU works at, say, 0.925V all the way up to 2 GHz, you can just use undervolting software, set all multipliers up to 2 GHz to the 0.925V and disable anything above it and, presto, you got yourself an "ULV" CPU with TDP very close to the 10W.

There are quite good undervolting tools available - e.g. CPUgenie or RMClock. CPUgenie even has a wizard that automatically finds the lowest stable voltages for you.

And, the great thing is that most Core 2 Duo CPUs are so good that they work on very low voltages already! Intel is even artificially limiting the lowest voltage on C2D CPUs in order to be able to get a price premium for those "ULV" parts. In reality, most of the notebook CPUs (except the worst-binned ones) would be able to operate in such way.

 

#psyq321 Didn’t know about the ebay moded CPU. But I can say that i have an Socket M/FCBGA6 on my Sony. And the reason I was looking for the option to install a U7700 on my Sony was to get lower CPU temp and even hop that the laptop could run whit out having the fan getting turned on. But I could try out the CPUgenie before thinking about the option of getting me a ULV CPU.

I was lookint at this one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-INTEL-CORE-DUO-U7700-1-33GHZ-2M-533-MOBILE-CPU-PGA_W0QQitemZ230329876634QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230329876634&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Can u say if it is a BGA mod version.

 

It has to be a modded BGA because Intel never sold ULV cpus in retail, only in OEM and only in BGA packaging.

Look at the picture - it says SLAUR for the CPU stepping

And then, go here:

http://www.cput-world.com/sspec/SL/SLAUR.html

So, yes, unfortunately it is a mod...

Basically, buying this is a gamble - it might work well and you might install it nicely and it would never break...

Or, it can be already DOA, since those pins could easily fall off during the transport...
Or, the pins could fall-off during the installation...
Or, worse, they might detach during the operation and leave your socket unusable...

My honest advice is to stay clear of BGA mods - unless you really are ready to experiment and can accept one of the consequences stated above.

By the way, that CPU is >slow< (I had it/still have it in my old Vaio TZ) - if you are using Windows Vista/Server 2008 or if you are using your notebook for anything more demanding than MS Office - you'll feel quite a slowdown compared to a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo.

 

Thnx psyq321 I will stay clear of the moded ULV. What about the Core Duo LV L2400. Dos that CPU work for me?

I found one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intel-Core-Duo-mobile-CPU-L2400-SL9JT-D0-BGA-15W-TDP_W0QQitemZ270366367970QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item270366367970&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177

It looks okay but i dont know much about the mods. So I cant say if the old Core Duo LV series also have mods out there on ebay.

 

Ouch, this one is actually a BGA, not even a mod:

And the picture shows it:

http://images3.bilder-speicher.de/show.php?type=image_org&id=08102416751039

You can't install this unfortunately - BGAs are meant for soldering - so the only way to mount a BGA on a PGA socket is to solder-on the pins, which makes it a "BGA-mod"

--

Unfortunately there are no PGA ULV/LV chips All ULV/LV chips that Intel offers/offered are OEM-only BGA SKUs.

Why is so, I really don't know - I actually suggested to my Intel contacts to consider the "Undervolting" crew and start selling very low voltage and/or undervoltable CPUs in Retail as PGAs... I'd even be willing to pay a premium - say, the same way they make "extreme" CPUs they could make VID-unlocked "extreme low power" CPUs as well

 

I've seen a few PGA modded Socket M LV/ULV chips... here's a modded L2300 for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-mobile-Co...hash=item350177348574&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

I've actually wanted to try out a PGA modded Socket P processor, but I've just never gotten around to it. There may still be BIOS issues that prevent these processors from being used in conventional Socket M and P machines. I'd love to see retail chips with unlocked VIDs as well. That'd be great.

 

I'm waiting for someone to offer SL9500 as a BGA-mod...

If the price is very low, I might just buy it to try it out and even to risk my HTPC mobo - it would be an awesome low-voltage performer - I guess they would have to enable VIDs below 0.9V for that CPU

 

So from the look of the picture I need to cut of one of the pins at the corner? Because of the fact that a normal Socket M CPU misses 2 pins at the corner. Is that correct? But will the CPU work after such a mod? Because that mod looks safer then adding a new pin that could fall of at any given time.

Looks like no ULV or LV versions of the Core Duo or Core 2 Duo will not work on a Socket M platform So the only option is to undervolt a normal CPU and hop that will get the CPU to go down in temperature and the CPU fan will stop spinning. But the real problem is most that the temp is set to 40 C degrees at level 1 fan (Low fan Speed) and at 55 C degrees the fan will be at level 5 (max fan speed). Maybe the best option is to mod the bios to 55 C for low speed and 70 C for full fan speed to get the fan idle speed down.

 

Are you sure that some of this noise is not coming from your HD?

 

Are you talking about the PGA modded L2300? You should NEVER, EVER cut or add pins to a CPU. If a CPU isn't pin compatible with a Socket, it means it WILL NOT WORK with your machine. The PGA modded chip I linked should be pin compatible with any Socket M motherboard; I'm saying that BIOS limitations may still prevent you from using it.

 

Nooo! Socket M and Socket P are completely incompatible, since the pin arrangements are completely different - although the number of pins is similar, the electrical layout is quite different, so forcing Socket P CPU in Socket M (and vice versa) by means of "cutting pins" will only result in fried CPU or fried motherboard - or both.

By the way U7700 and that Core Duo Mobile are Socket M.

And that Core Duo L2400 is BGA (besides, this is a very old 32-bit architecture chip, approx. ~20% slower than Core 2 Duo clock-for-clock) - which means that it does not have pins at all. Instead of pins, it has small "balls" made of soldering material, which is supposed to be soldered on contact array on the motherboard.

Actually many of them are indeed Socket M - however none of them are originally with PGA pins.

Try the undervolting - if you are lucky, your CPU already has a low minimum VID at which Intel locked it - if you can get e.g. 0.900V or 0.925V min. VID, you are already in the territory of LV/ULV CPUs.

 

#psyq321 So what you are saying is that all LV, ULV Core duo, Core 2 Duo CPU's out there are whit out PGA pins? And look like Socket 775 desktop CPU's on the backside?

But when I google "SL9JT" i get this picture:
http://www.cpuol.com/asp_bin/pro_img/200811121029185.jpg

And from the look of that picture the CPU looks to be a 100% socket M compatible but it could be a modede PGA version.

#rachuk Its not the HDD. I can hear the HDD at load but it’s just a growling noise and not a loud whine noise. The sound of the HDD is pleasant. But the sound from the fan isn’t so pleasant.

 

Yes, I am quite sure Intel never released PGA SKUs for their LV/ULV CPUs.

You can check it for yourself - go to Intel's "Processor Spec Finder" site:

http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ParentRadio=All&ProcFam=2643&SearchKey=

And look for any LV/ULV version of the C2D / Core Duo CPUs - you won't find any of those with PGA - all of them are "Micro-FCBGA" packaging.

L7400 - SL9SM - http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9SM
L7400 - SLGFX - http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGFX
L2500 - SL9JU - http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9JU
L2400 - SL9JT - http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9JT

Nope... all BGAs, so the only way to stick that in the normal PGA mobo is to use the pin-mod... and then, you risk quite a lot.

 

But the T7200 CPU that the sony SZ48GN is born whit has also Micro-FCBGA. So what is the differs?

Link:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9SL

The T2300E uses "Micro-FCPGA" and that is my current CPU I am running whit. because it has lover work temps. The T2300E runns from 41 c to a full load of 62 C. Were the T7200 was hitting 50 C to 82 C at max load.

Link T2300E:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9DM

So "Micro-FCBGA" and "Micro-FCPGA" are working on my Sony sz48gn whit out any problems. I got the T2300E from and old laptop were the MB was dead.
But I am confused of the "Micro-FCBGA" socket type when my T7200 CPU witch the laptop was born with has the same socket type as the L2500. Can u explain that?

 

No...

You can't have both - BGA and PGA, because BGA is simply soldered on the motherboard and there is no way to fit the PGA CPU on that.

BGA is not a socket at all - there is no socket at all on the board, all you can see is CPU soldered on it, like any other chip you see on the motherboard! BGA packaging is supposed for factory soldering with special industrial equipment (you don't want to manually solder 400+ pins), and has no possibility of CPU upgrade, unless you really want to risk and try to desolder / resolder a CPU, for which you really risk completely destroying the system. The "balls" you are seeing on the BGA CPU photos are not "pins" and not even connectors like on Socket 775 - instead, that is the soldering material that "softens" and creates the solder connection between the motherboard and the CPU. As you can imagine, this is definitely "one time" process.

Some people actually did BGA CPU replacement on some XBox systems, but the failure rate is extremely high since any excess in heat during the soldering process will just destroy the new CPU - and, since most people do not have access to the industrial soldering appliances, burning is very likely. To give you some taste - it involves heating hardware in oven, etc... Crazy.

By the way, T7200 has a PGA version - which is this one, and this is most likely the CPU in SZ48GN when you refer to T7200:

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9SF

 

Btw, useful reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_grid_array (BGA means Ball Grid Array)

There are also few pics of BGA mounted chips - and, as you can see, they are really not meant to be easily replaceable

 

Okay thnx for the help psyq321.

I have tried the CPUgenie wizard voltage test. And something is strange here. Because my T2300E can run 0.712 Vcore on all speeds according to the test. But when I tried to run at the speeds and look whit the CPU-z Vcore monitor and power monitor in CPUgenie and according to the two programs my vcore is still 0.950 to 1.250. So it looks like the setting aren’t being saved or used. Looks to me that the Bios on the laptop is using its own setting no matter what.

So my conclusion is that when the CPUgenie voltage wizard was running the CPU wasn’t running at 0.712 vcore but at default speeds. Because the tested was to good. It showed that my T2300E was even better then at ULV hehe. Or its the limits of the Trail version of the program.

 

Hmm... did you check the "Unlock the voltages" button on the voltage screen?

Because this would actually enable you to select the lower than minimum VID - however, in most cases this would NOT really switch the voltages, because of the hardware VID lock built into the CPUs that prevents setting the lower than "factory allowed" VID. I suggest not to turn that ON as it is useless for anything other than early Engineering Samples of the Intel CPUs (where it works, because those CPUs are not programmed to block the low VIDs).

To see the real current VID (Voltage ID), just start the "Power Monitor" in CPUgenie - it will show you the current voltage / frequency and temperature - if the voltage does not go below 0.95V, it means that this is the limit of your CPU, which is the most likely result.

By the way - you need to enable the power management in CPUgenie in order for it to take over your BIOS/Windows Driver (setting on the main page)

The best would be just to run the voltage optimization wizard, without voltage unlocking - and it will find the lowest stable voltages for all frequencies.

Most likely, your CPU will be able to run @0.95V at all frequencies - in the worst case, it would run @0.95V for all but the highest ones where it might require a slight bump - say, 0.962V or a bit more....

 

But I did all that. But during the wizard I didn’t have enable the power management in CPUgenie. First after the wizard was don i did that. Was that wrong of me to do? Maybe my sony power management is conflicting whit the CPUgenie program. Maybe I should disable the sony power management software.

But I just ran the wizard whit the standard test options. And yes i dident use the unlock VID setting option. And i cant go under 0.712 vcore even whit unlock VID.

 

Okay I have tested the CPUgenie wizard were i disabled the Sony Power management software and turned on CPUgenie program Power management. And now it worked. But stil my CPU passed on 0.712v but in the CPU-z program it said 0.950v all the time on every speed. But the temperature was lower then when running the wizard whit sony Power management on. Now the max temp was 64 c and before it was 92 c after 1 hour. So it looks like it works only if I kill of sony Power management software ect. But now I am going to try the same test whit my T7200 to see if it has better Power management skillz then the T2300E.

BTW what tool is the best for VID control? NHC, RMclock, CPUgenie or something totally ells. Isent it posibal to edit the reg info in windows or som setting in the Sony Power management software so that it runs whit the low VID setting by default?

 

I bought a U7700 PGA mod from Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-INTEL-CORE-DUO-U7700-1-33GHZ-2M-533-MOBILE-CPU-PGA_W0QQitemZ230329876634QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230329876634&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

It is a Socket P CPU. Unfortunately the pins were soldered like it was Socket M CPU (the other missing pin is at wrong location).

I still put it in my notebook to see if it would work somehow...and it couldn't boot or even go to BIOS. Power turned on for a moment the first time, but after that it didn't turn on anymore.

Does this indicate that the CPU was hardware incompatible as supposed? Or can this kind of computer behaviour also mean that BIOS just didn't recognize it or have microcode to support it?

By the way, there are both Socket P and M versions for most L- and U-C2D CPU's. The U7700's, that I bought, sSpec number is SLAUR so the stepping is M0. It is obviously Socket P version, since all the M0 stepping CPU's are Socket P (and L2 stepping CPU's are Socket M).
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#.22Penryn.22_.28Apple_iMac_specific.2C_45_nm.29)

**** Intel for having those locked VID's and not even selling LV CPU's in PGA, making everything so difficult!

 

#psyq321 What about using a T2700 will it not have a lower idle temperature then my current T2300 CPU. Because the T2700 runs at a higher clock speed but still has the same TDP as the T2300. So I was wondering if the T2700 would run at lower idle temp then the T2300 and that the T2700 would run at lower temperatures when throttling up in clock speed?

But I found this T2700 on ebay and it looks 100% PGA socket compatible no moding on it ect. But it says it is a ES edition. Dos that mean that the VID is totally unlocked?

Link to T2700 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intel-Core-DUO-Yonah-T2700-2-33G-2MB-667-SL9JP-479M-CPU_W0QQitemZ150336227992QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_LaptopMotherboards_CPUs_CA?hash=item150336227992&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

Your best chance would probably be a modded socket since it is hardly every possible to stray far from what model series of chipset you currently have... Best of luck in your upgrade.

 

Zorror, I can confirm that the U7700 SLAUR is infact a socket M processor, I just received mine today and installed it in my Asus R1F. It works flawlessly and performs almost as well as the T5500 it replaced. I modified my bios prior to receiving it so I believe that it is necessary to update the microcode for it to work, unless your bios already supports M0 stepping and U7700.

I've been following threads on this forum for a while now and decided that this would be a good time to post, as I cannot find anymore information on this processor and thought I could help you out with getting it to work.

Let me know what make/model of laptop you have and maybe I can offer you some help/advice on how to modify your bios to support your new ULV CPU. If it's an asus model I can guarantee you that I can help.

 

thnx rsul my laptop is a Sony Vaio VGN-SZ48GN whit the bios version "R0112N0" don’t know if that helps you see if the laptop works whit the M0 stepping. BTW did you get your U7700 from ebay? The same person/company that are selling the modede U7700 CPU's that were discussed in this tread?

Link to laptop specs ect:
http://www.sony-asia.com/product/vgn-sz48gn

 

Yes it's the same U7700 linked in ebay on this thread. I wasn't having any luck getting to Sony bios when I was trying to find the right microcode update, so it might be a bit tricky. I've also heard that some of their computers use UEFI instead of bios so that might be an issue. If your computer uses an AMI bios I suggest looking online for the AMI Bios tools. Look for tool_8_RC1.rar. I think the sony utility was blocking me from getting to the actual bios files, but with those tools you should be able to extract your bios from memory and check or modify it. The microcode update that you need to have in your bios to support the U7700 is 06FD, I have revisions A1 and A3 on mine just in case.

If you get access to your bios you can check your microcode with the MMTOOL.EXE utility found in the AMI Bios Tools mentioned above. If you have the 06FD microcode I think you're all set, if not you need to find a sony bios that contains the microcode you need and patch it back to your bios.

 

Ok, it seems like it is Socket M CPU after all if it works on your notebook. Strange though that everywhere it is said to be Socket P and stepping is M0:
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupID=33920
http://www.hardware-specs.net/index.php?option=com_fabrik&Itemid=324

So it would have not have worked on my Thinkpad T61 which has Socket P. I sent U7700 back to the seller and he will send me back modded L7700 which is definitely Socket P CPU. I think it might work without modifying BIOS since L7700 is similar to the original T7100 in my notebook and my motherboard supports CPU's with same stepping as L7700. In case it BIOS does need modifying I would appreciate the help a lot.

With this CPU replacement I'm trying to make my notebook run without fan but still maintain very comfortable temp (<~45C). I love the idea of completely silent notebook, of course I need SSD too. Rsul, how much difference in temp did it make with ULV CPU (with or without fan), in case you monitored them? My CPU (T7100) temp without fan is 50C at lowest VID. I just wonder if LV CPU is big enough improvement, or do I need ULV CPU.

Ravelab, Your motherboard has Socket M so the U7700 mod is compatible. I think your notebook BIOS would work with M0 and many other steppings because there are SZ models that use CPU's with those steppings and all SZ models probably use same BIOS updates. So there's a good chance it would work (BIOS might still need some modifying to identify CPU speed etc. and motherboard jumper needs to provide low enough voltage, which it probably does). There's also other low voltage Socket M CPU mods for sale on japanese auctions like L7500 mod.

I don't think T2700 would run at lower temperature than T2300 because they have same TDP and VID range. T2700 probably has same voltage/temperature at minimum and maximum clock speed as T2300, but T2700 has higher minimum and maximum clock speed. The ES edition means engineering sample and auction says it's same as original so it's not unlocked.

 

My temps before with T5500 would hover around 45C at idle (no fan) and go up to around 58C at load (with fan). Now with the U7700 the idle is around 35C (no fan) and load tops at around 45C (no fan for a while, until other components heat up more). Basically the fan rarely comes on anymore above about 800 rpm, and when the fan does come on it's not triggered by the CPU temp anymore, as the peak load temperature is about equal to the designed idle temperature.

So now with my Samsung SSD I have a near silent PC and the fan rarely ever ramps up above 800rpm, where it used to be on about 1600 rpm constantly, and full load every few minutes.

 

#zorror: Why not just update the CPU on your T61 to an 45nm Intel Penryn CPU? My work laptop T61 has a T8100 CPU in it. And it runs quit only the HDD maks nozie. So don’t think you need a L7500 CPU in the T61 to make it run quit. Just get a Penryn CPU in it.

The T61 fan compared to the Sony SZ48GN laptop is totally silent. But the SZ48 fan makes a lot of noize. But from what I can see in the laptop. The fan in the SZ laptop is a 2 pin connector whit out RPM pin. So the fan is controlled from the bios whit volt. So basically it should be possible to make a resistens mod on the SZ fan to get ½ volt from 2 pin connector over to the fan. And that way get the fan to run at 50% in idle mode and at 50% from the original idle RPM speed and load RPM Speed. Would such a mod work?

 

That's perfectly ideal for CPU temp. Your notebook seems to have great heatsink/passive cooling or something, despite it's small size. I got my L7700 week ago. Good thing was that it worked right away. Bad thing was that it dropped temperature from only from 50C to 46C. I'll try ULV CPU next. What is the lowest voltage on your CPU, 0.75V I assume?. L7700 has 0.85V. I only need a little bit cooler CPU to be satisfied.

I'm not sure if Penryn CPU would be better, it has same TDP range and voltage (roughly) as T7700 that my T61 had. I can keep the fan silent in my T61, but then temperature is at least 50C all the time. 50C is only warm not hot, but I want notebook to be cool. Fan keeps it cool, but I want it to be silent too. The fan makes as much noise as HDD at lowest speed 3000RPM.