4GB Sticks?

Any word on when 4GB SO-DIMM will be available? If they are already available somewhere, anyone know where? I've seen references to some on the Kingston site but can't find anyone selling them.

Just to clarify this is referring to a single 4GB SO-DIMM, which when doubled, would be a kit of 4x2, or 8. Not a 2x2 kit.

 

Are there even any laptops that can support 8GB of RAM?

 

AFAIK all current mainstream notebooks have a maximum ram amount of 4Gb, that translates to each memory bank holding a 2Gb ram module at max. There is a reason why 4Gb ram chips don't exist for notebooks and that is because none of them can use them. I also suspect ( but I maybe wrong) another reason why the max right now is 2Gb is because of the size of a so-dimm module it is far smaller than it's desktop counterpart; therefore space is limited, so until they learn how to cram more memory onto the so-dimm modules the max might stay @ 2Gb (of course this is just a theory).

 

I also doubt that there are any programs out there that can benefit from >4GB of ram.

 

No normal laptop will support more than 4GB of ram. Also, to my knowledge there are no 4GB memory sticks that exist for laptops. The only 4GB stick for desktops I have ever seen is made by GeIL (listed HERE at NewEgg).

It would be monstrously difficult to fit that much memory into a laptop size memory module. Current technological constraints just don't seem to allow it.

Maybe next-gen memory (DDR3) will support this.

A 64-bit File Server could make use of this. Servers can handle and utilize much more memory than a normal computer. In order to work with massive online databases some of them need 16GB or more of memory to function effectively.

But no, no laptop should need this kind of memory in the current technological generation of 32 bit computing.

Anandtech.com has a fantastic article HERE detailing one of the limits of the current generation of 32 bit operating systems and memory usage.

 

It's not a ram limitation I think. They make 1gb individual chips already, and they're working on 2gb ones. Slap four of them on a stick and you have 4gb. It's just that Intel and AMD decided that notebooks don't need 8gb, so they didn't make support for it.

 

4gb is ALOT of ram, spread it among two sticks. I cant see why you would need anything more than that unless you are running a 64 bit OS

 

Right. Yeah that's not correct, most motherboards should have no trouble handling 8GB RAM. Remember that most Notebook chipsets are actually just slightly more compact versions of desktop chipsets.

The limitation comes from OSes, that is correct, however, I run a great deal of development software,a and generally tend to be Memory Intensive overall. I would benefit from 8GB of RAM (I know my habits very well, and am not an uninformed user).

It IS possible that the north or southbridge of the mobos are simply not able to handle 8GB, due to some stupid cap.. Much as how my Desktop Mobo can only allocate 8GB total between RAM and GRAM (thus, due to my videocard, i can only have a maximum of 7.5 GB of RAM usable)...



I find it unlikely, however. Most manufacturers probably say that it can only have up to 4GB because there are either simply not 4GB chips currently available, or, more likely, they're dumbing it down for the consumer.

I would personally like to have 8GB of RAM if possible.

So, has anyone seen/heard of the 4GB SO-DIMMs?

 

http://www.intel.com/business/casestudies/proof_of_concepts_dcs.pdf

Centrino Pro supports up to 8GB.

So, anyone seen 4GB SO-DIMMs?

 

I believe the 4GB limitation in most laptop motherboards is imposed, not technologically impossible. You mentioned that Centrino Duo is capable of 8GB and it may well be, but most previous mobile chipsets have an imposed limitation of 4GB. Practically, this isn't really an issue considering there are no actual 4GB sticks of memory for laptops commonly available (this is what you'd need in most laptops to get to 8GB because they only have two DIMM slots).

Also, 8GB, even with a 64bit OS is iffy considering the 2GB barrier on most programs. If you are running specific 64 bit Large Memory addressing aware software, then you have a strong point.

 

And this is what datasheets are for:
PM965 Santa Rosa Datasheet
Max 4gb total.
Same with AMD since March last year, don't feel like looking it up .

Thus they cannot exist, unless there's a third chipmaker who supports it (edit
: Centrino Pro does?). If we're lucky, next year's Intel chipset might support it, but it's most likely two years down the road.

32bit can't even handle 4gb, it ends up only seeing somewhere around 3.5gb depending on the mobo... It's kinda stupid Vista 64 is not standard, you're gonna get upgrade problems either way, why not go the whole 9 yards? 64-bit computing set back again .

 

Centrino Pro _is_ the Chipset. And, I am asking if there are any, and I believe I've seen one, but I can't find it again... I wanted to see if anyone heard, not just if they're out there, but if there's been any industry news of when they're coming out. 4GB cap has been around awhile, as I recall.


In regards to "you're crazy for even wanting it!"...

I tend to run 2-3 instances of VS, an instance of GIMP, around 20 Firefox windows, sometimes an instance or two of VMware, SQL Server, and various other programs at the same time.

It's not about a single program, it's about multitasking.

I don't wish to be rude, but.. Why are you telling me I don't want a large amount of RAM when I obviously do?


64/32
-----

Yes, I run 64 Bit Vista on my Desktop. I don't have my new laptop yet, but I plan on triple booting Ubuntu 64, Vista 64, and XP 32.. Possibly XP64 instead.

I understand the memory limits as imposed by the OS. I also understand that the memory limit of Centrino Pro is 8GB, which is what I'd like to target.. I'm trying really hard to not be rude, and if I'm coming off that way, I'm sorry.

 

I don't know if you were talking to me, but sorry if I came off pushy. I didn't realize you were using Linux.

I also seem to remember some tech news referring to 4GB ram modules for mobile chipsets, but I can't remember where I read it.

I read a bunch of internet tech news sites, so I have no idea where I heard it from. Maybe anandtech? Extremetech? Bit-tech? Is it just me or do these guys all have 'tech' at the end?

 

Yeah, Patriot has some. For example, this.

http://shop4.outpost.com/%7BxnDrP7ddudypQjU12s+E1Q**.node2%7D/search;jsessionid=xnDrP7ddudypQjU12s+E1Q**.node2?query_string=&cat=-49914&sort=price&order_by=p03a&order=asc&pType=pDisplay&resultpage=1&from=25&to=49

Eh...so what if it's from Fry's heh.

 

@storm
They do like the word tech... ArsTECHnica

I hope i can find them again, but they'd probably be 800$ bleh...

@Azn
Those are 4GB kits (2x2). Thankyou though...

 

Oops, oh well.

 

that is 4x2gb

each stick is still 2gb

though quad channel sounds pretty damn cool

no single 4gb stick is out AFAIK

and even if there is, most laptop chipsets do not support that much memory (and its likely to cost exorbitant amount of money too)



1 question though, why would you need 20 firefox windows when you can have 1 window and 20 tabs?

lol

 

I actually meant 20 tabs, but was simplifying for a matter of example. Actually I tend to have 2-3 windows each with 5-15 tabs..

The memory footprint of each tab is less than a single window, but still significant regardless. I believe my friend and I found the footprint to be about 70% as large for each tab .. ie, a tab is 70% of a window. I could be misremembering, and it can be easily tested.

 

I'm doing that right now, using only half of my 1gb. Than again I'm not running VMs left and right, those suck memory.

 

20 tabs isn't a lot

 

I guess you've never heard of CAD, CAM, audio / video editing, VMware, or raytracing? Not to mention that some folks use laptops as disaster-area servers, hence the market for animals like this: http://www.tadpole.com/products/notebooks/bullfrogdp.asp
which can accept up to 16 GB of RAM.

The Apple Mac Pro can be configured with up to 16GB of RAM. I'll bet there's plenty of Mac Pro owners who wish they could ditch the bulky box in favor of a dual-core 16GB notebook - except they can't because of Santa Rosa's limitations.

Just because you cannot make use of > 4GB doesn't mean others cannot. Not everyone is a l33t gam3r, some people actually use their computers to perform serious work. Hard to believe, I know.

And your average Linux installation can use up to 64 GB of RAM, yes, even on 32 bit Linux.

That said, most new business and consumer laptops are based on the Santa Rosa chipset which cannot use more than 4GB.

But what about Santa Rosa sub-notebooks that only have one SO-DIMM. I'm sure they're eager for a 4GB SO-DIMM.

I just ordered a 4GB kit for my dv9500t because 2GB just isn't nearly enough for what I use it for. I imagine a year or two from now I'll be wishing I had 8GB.

 

Right. But 2-3 instances of Visual Studio, GIMP, some VMs, ... It tends to add up.

It's also not a matter of hitting 100%. By the time you start approaching 80% of memory capacity, you're going to be hitting a lot of Page Faults, which in turn will slow down your performance significantly.

I like to be unencumbered. Memory is one of the largest bottlenecks.. Let me give an example.

I have 4GB on my Desktop. When it boots up, Vista is (without bloatware) using 40%, or, 1.6 GB.

That's sorta crazy, isn't it? Sorta makes you wonder, how in the world, then, can someone with 1 GB of RAM run Vista?

Because vista purposefully handicaps itself on Memory less than 4GB. I'm not even sure 4GB is a point where it stops handicapping itself. The reason for this is that the OS will Cache things in the memory that, if it had less memory, would be of smaller priority and it'd leave on the Hard Drive until it actually needed it.

By having the higher memory, all of these apps can reduce significantly the amount of space-optimization they need to perform, and thereby allow one to run the apps in a non-handicapped state.

 

I debunked this earlier. Santa Rosa, or rather, Centrino Pro, according to Intel itself, can use up to 8GB.

 

It's weird how Intel contradicts itself...

 

Reminds of this otherwise normal-looking laptop I saw that used desktop ram...

 

Yes the tadpole uses desktop RAM. My point is that the market demand is there for > 4GB in a laptop form factor.

 

installing 2x2GB sticks in laptops is also not always going to work...........

we've not been able to get any Sony, Toshiba and limited amount of HPs to work with 2x2GB config

the bios doesn't have a memory remapping feature so even if the chipset supports it i don't think you should automatically assume it will work

we'll test the santa rosa ones in the next round of testing and report but as things stand now....it's not looking good

 

That thing you linked isn't a notebook that 22lb monster is a portable server and IMO has nothing to do with notebooks(even though it may resemble one). Also as I said in my previous post desktop ram dimms are far larger than the so-dimm modules used in normal notebooks therefore with the current manufacturing process it is harder to fit more than 2Gb onto a single so-dimm module the memory density would have to be very high. Now I am not saying it couldn't be done but it is simply more expensive as everything is smaller and the mainstream demand isn't there right now.

Intel can claim that santa rosa can use up to 8Gb of ram but do you guys have a notebook that you can actually test that in or 4Gb ram modules Intel should be working on replacing that ageing FSB as that is their biggest memory problem now instead of making claims no one but them can verify.

Wow you got some serious bloatware running there my vista on boot up is only using 550Mb of the available 1918Mb of ram even my brother who has 3Gb of ram on boot up he is only using ~670Mb. I suggest you learn to control vista, do you let countless programs and services start with windows(these are bloatware as well ). I disable alot of the ram hogging programs and have a clean startup with only anti-virus, Realtek HD and RMclock being the only non windows startup programs.

 

i don't follow
are you saying FSB is affecting performance on intel platform

 

Yes FSB is a big memory bottle neck for Intel platforms it only operates at half duplex(unlike AMD hypertransport which runs at full duplex) and thus limits the memory bandwidth(memory performance). Intel are working on their version of an IMC (integrated memory controller) to sort this problem

 

Ouch Evolution, what'd he do to you? Heh.

Vista is rather memory hungry, but it scales pretty well. It is possible to minimize usage, but I'd just let it take what it needs unless it is using said memory for pointless tasks. It was an uncommon approach to let Vista gobble up memory in proportion to available resources, I wonder if it will pay off in the end.

 

Ok. You regularly see SODIMMs with 8 chips on them right? The 512M ram chips are selling for $20 a pop at one place right now. 8x512=4gb.

Yes, the 1gb chips are pretty expensive ($100 each now), but I seem to recall 2gb sticks being sold last year for a grand or two. What stops them now?

 

Good for you.

I did not buy my computer, i am a 1337 g33k who built my own computer. I have no bloatware of note running on my computer. As I tried to explain, if you read what I actually said, is that Vista changes its memory footprint based on your memory capacity. I'm also running Vista 64, not Vista 32.

Vista professional, from the MSDNAA. I am a master's student at Georgia Tech. We get it for free.

 

You can purchase 2x2GB chips from New Egg for 200-250$. They're really not that expensive.

You are correct, the mainstream demand is not currently present.. but.. I'm.. not a mainstream consumer.

...also, yes 1337 g33k was tongue in cheek, but also somewhat accurate... I have rather high demands, I don't.. need.. my need for large capacity of RAM questioned, I was just hoping people might look around for something, or report if they've heard any news.

 

Call it what you want. It has an integrated keyboard and LCD and folds closed. It's a notebook. Manufacturing processes, memory density, blah blah blah. You're missing the point.

There are plenty of users hungry for > 4GB in a notebook form factor, and it's just not available today on any mainstream consumer or business notebooks.

 

4 GB sticks on your laptop? Wow. You're already looking at performance matching those of workstations.

 

Darn straight.

 

Ok I will call it what it is "a portable server" like I said in my previous post even though *it resembles a notebook at the end of the day it isn't one so how then can it be compared with everyday notebooks so then I think unfortunately you missed my point . Also this thread was about 4Gb so-dimm modules not the dimm modules found in that.

FGLRXandYou as many users have told you 4Gb modules don't exist for notebooks (at the moment) and even if the ram manufacturers started to make 4Gb modules the motherboard and chipset manufacturers would also have to release hardware that can actually accept more than 4Gb. Unfortunately we might even have to wait until DDR3 for notebooks comes out to get 4Gb ram modules

 

4GB RAM modules will probably not be a big deal until the Windows OS is 64bit only. That means post-Vista OS, as many Vista installs are 32bit and thus limited to a 2x2GB configuration.

 

I think you're the one who's missing the point here. Several folks stated that there is no demand for > 4GB in a notebook because no one can make use of that much. I contend that people can certainly make use of that much, and the demand is there for it (and more).

Tadpole resembles a notebook, but yet it isn't one. Mmmmkay. Whatever makes you happy. No one was comparing it to a gam3r notebook, or a business notebook. I think you made that assumption on your own. Neither was anyone comparing SO-DIMM's with deskop memory. Of course the tadpole uses desktop memory - there is no notebook memory that can provide 16GB in a laptop. That's precisely the point I'm trying to make!

The point, once again (I'll type slowly so you get it this time): The demand is there for > 4GB in a notebook form factor, but there are no memory products available yet to meet that demand.

 

I couldn't put it any better...

 

True dat. Even most workstations have only up to 3 to 4 GB of RAM since Windows can't utilize more than that. Well, some of them have two quad-core Xeon processors with 8 MB of cache, 15K RPM hard drives, the good stuff, etc. Bleh. So much for power...

 

In the workstation market though, Windows makes up only a small fraction of total machines. It's sharing the market with HP-UX, Tru64, Solaris, Linux, IRIX, and OSX.

It's not like regular peecee's where Windows has 90% market share, OSX has a few points and Linux has a few points.

Heck my old SGI Octane2, built 10 years ago in 1997, I just sold it last year. It had two CPU's and 8 GB of RAM. And that's a 10 year old workstation.

 

Oh, I forgot about that fact.

But then again, OSes targeted at the workstation market, that's something a laptop isn't optimized for.

Just out of curiosity, what were the specs of your 10 year old workstation you just sold?

 

evidently there is not much people demanding >4gb and therefore its not profitable for ram companies to research and manufacture them

doesn't matter that a few select minority needs them. majority rules

and no single 4gb stick is out

end of discussion

 

that's not at all true

i'm an experienced overclocker and have been around for a long time...senior member at XtremeSystems, OCAU, i4memory and a few other forums. I can tell you right now that FSB does nothing for performance at all

if you know better you should do some tests yourself........the only thing that would affect pefromance at different FSBs is RAM speed and latency. if all else equal there will be no difference in FSB performance however if you increase the RAM speed and lower latency at the same time you will see some gains

it's a pitty that laptop manufacturers don't give people better bios files to control RAM timings, ratios and FSB strap (a hidden bios feature at least that only experienced users should be able to access if they wish so like Gigabyte CTRL+F1 from memory)

it would help increase performance considerably if we could tweak the RAM ratios and latencies in bios ......

 

>4 GB of RAM will be relevant when 64 Bit processors are commonplace and become the mainstay of production across the major manufacturers.


Oh wait :|

 

Also, Laptop.Au is right. Your memory speed is marginal in terms of performance increase compared to more Memory, a lower-latency Hard Drive, or a faster processor....

And, as respectfully as I can word this, I want to express, no, my question wasn't answered. What I received was a few of people who were also interested, and a few people who told me either
a) I don't need that much RAM (Not true-- I know my needs better than they)
b) People telling me they didn't exist/it wasn't possible.

Well, you can't really... prove a negative, nor will i ask you to, it's possible they don't exist. I find this unlikely, because 8GB 240 PIN chips exist. But telling me that Santa Rosa can't accept 8GB because the OEM told you so when their White Papers clearly state that it can.. It's just.. not right..

I'd be really interested, though, if anyone could find news briefs or press releases in which mainstream companies are announcing higher-capacity modules. I've not found any, yet-- in fact, I've not found any news briefs for any capacity module, which is rather odd...

Oh and.. Please don't say that no 4GB stick exists, when it's fairly obvious you haven't.. looked.. you've just looked at the consensus in the forum i was hoping to harness our collective searching talents! Not just.. parrot each other.. blar ::weep::

 

problem with sodimm is size and density of ICs

there are no ICs big enough to be able to make SODIMM 4GB yet

 

Or dense enough-- You think so? That seems unusual to me... I wouldn't be surprised if they exist in tighter markets, but are outside the reach of consumer markets..

If only I knew someone at Kingston.....