Thunderbolt 3 eGPU solutions arriving 4th quarter 2015, mainstream in 2016

Greetings!

After several false starts, thunderbolt 3 will finally officially support external GPU (eGPU) - This is only possible with Intel's endorsement. This mean we'll soon find affordable aftermarket eGPU enclosure base on thunderbolt 3 with hot-plugging capability through USB 3.1
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbolt-3

Now, intel has thrown a curve ball - Not all laptop with thunderbolt 3 will support eGPU - This is now known as Thunderbolt 3 eGFX extension. In a nutshell, you need to be running Windows 10, the BIOS and thunderbolt firmware must support eGFX hotplugging on thunderbolt 3. You'll also need use active thunderbolt cable for eGFX.

Adding to more confusion, AMD is branding Thunderbolt 3 eGFX standard as XConnect (AMD Xconnect device drivers for Radeon GPU). I'm expecting Nvidia to be branding its eGFX driver support as something else entirely.

The lowdown:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10133/amd-xconnect-external-radeons

Thunderbolt 3 eGPU Demo


I'm so excited. No more messing about with DIY eGPU workarounds and crazy driver issues

Tentatively, there are two thunderbolt 3 eGPU offerings:

1. Portable thunderbolt 3 eGPU enabled dock port multiplier with mobile class GPU
2. Non-Portable Thunderbolt 3 eGPU enclosure that will take full size PCIe desktop class graphics card

MSI thunderbolt 3 eGPU Prototype:
http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...phics-solutions-with-thunderbolt-3-interface/

 

This will be the holy grail for many people I think. Once companies start putting USB C on their ultrabooks, something with a 950GTX/equivalent in 2016 will be fine for mobile graphics for a long time (compared to the current ultrabook performance standard of an 840m) as long as we can use the external dock.

 

This is one of the biggest things to look forward to in the new platforms for me. More powerful gpu, external cooling (zero throttling), upgradability, portability when not gaming, and most importantly no hassle with drivers (hopefully) anymore with egpu. H

 

I'm not sure if the following 2 can be compared, so please correct me if I'm wrong:

> Anandtech image shows the USB-C connector got 40 Gbps
> A geforce 860m has 80 GB/s bandwidth

That means only half of the performance of a 860m can be reached... which is totally not worth a consideration. Not even for pure business laptops.

 

You're confusing how fast a graphics card can process / generate images and how fast it can send those images to the screen. Bandwidth regulates how fast the card can send images to the screen, not how fast those images can be processed or generated. It's also important to consider how much of the bandwidth is being used by that card. While I agree that the bandwidth is going to be a bottleneck or limiting factor to high-end desktop graphic cards, such cards are capable of high enough image processing and generation power that they will still provide noticeable improvements in playability, especially compared to the integrated graphics the target notebooks will ship with.

 

But CPU is already bottlenecking higher end mobile GPU's, limiting bandwidth will do even moreso. While I agree that it's a good solution to have a thin and light on the go and gaming at your desk, it will still be quite limiting in performance compared to a dedicated mobile GPU onboard the laptop itself.

 

Ye guys, from experience the bottleneck is weirdly not an issue. this may be because I connect my screen directly to my eGPU

to explain I have a alienware 15 and 17 both with graphics amplifier with GTX 980

It seems the more i throw at the videocard the less the gap between a desktop and my performance.

To explain, the GA runs at PCIEx4 which is horrible compared to 16x on a desktop.

But on firestrike standard I get 15262 on GPU score (have scored higher but thats with and older driver) which is alittle of a loss to a desktop with similar clockrates etc

but on firestrike ultra, I get 3536 GPU score which is pretty damn close if not better.

So the more GPU dependent (i.e. 4K etc) the less the bandwidth is an issue.

Also a very simple way of knowing the pci bandwidth isnt limiting me is on Black ops 3 i get around 110FPS everything on MAX on the GA, then I overclock and get over 155FPS all the time.

So that massive performance bump wouldnt happen if the PCI lanes were saturated.

I am not a fan of this setup though, I want the plug and play of thunderbolt 3 egpu (currently I have to shutdown to unplug)

 

The PCIE Bandwidth is not a problem.

My desktop (Sandy Bridge 2600K) is running a 980Ti (EVGA Hybrid) in PCIE 2.0 x8 mode (same amount of bandwidth as PCIE 3.0 x4 which is offered in TB3, minus the efficiency improvements from 3.0) and you'd think it would suffer badly. It doesn't....not even a little. I also had a 980 in this machine (reference model) and it scored comparably to grkstyla above.

For those who wish to know why it's running in x8 mode, it's because I have a HBA controller in the other PCIE slot (ASUS P67 M Pro mATX board) which forces the 2 slots into x8/x8 configuration.

My Firestrike scores are damn near the same as most review units. Hell, mine even overclocks higher than some review units and scores higher.

980 Ti Hybrid scores with PCIE 2.0 x8:
Stock clocks (1140mhz): http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5982456
Overclocked (+210 core + 500 mem): http://www.3dmark.com/fs/6052759
FS Ultra (4K with OC settings above): http://www.3dmark.com/fs/6052815

980 scores with PCIE 2.0 x8:
Stock: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2806413
Conservative OC (+205 core + 10 mem): http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5805954
FS Ultra (4K with OC settings above): http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5805978

EDIT: should also note, the difference between the overclocked cards is about 34-35%. This difference remains in both 1080p test and 4K test. So there's no PCIE bottlenecking there or you'd expect this difference to decrease or cap out the 980ti in some way, which is doesn't.

No problems at all. I'm looking forward to TB3 eGPUs. People are getting too hung up on the numbers of PCIE lanes and thinking "it's 4x fewer lanes than my desktop therefore it must suck!"...
Fact is PCIE has been well in front of whatever we could throw at it for a LONG time now.

 

I just wonder when we will be able to buy one of these, I am about to refresh my alienware setup, and im not sure if i should go amplifier again, or another model of laptop that has thunderbolt 3 and get an thunderbolt egpu solution when it comes out

 

It's more than likely that Alienware will drop the amplifier setup, or possibly just re-badge it onto a thunderbolt connection. MSI is dropping their current GS30 system as far as I know.

Currently I've got my eye on the refreshed MSI GS60:
http://www.msi.com/product/notebook/GS60-6QE-Ghost-Pro.html#hero-specification

The spec shows a USB3.1 "superport" for "dual 4K monitors". I'm assuming this means it's likely a TB3 combo port but Intel haven't given out the Thunderbolt certs yet for marketing materials (Clevo are currently in this boat

I'm a big Clevo fan but they haven't put the TB3/USB3.1 ports on their P650RE and P640RE refreshes which is annoying from a longevity perspective. My desktop (i7-2600K) is getting long in the tooth and I'm hoping I'll be able to replace it with a TB3/eGPU setup in the next year or so (but get the laptop sooner as I need more mobile grunt than my W230SS provides atm).

 

With the increased bandwidth of 40gps I cant wait to see what can be done. Been thinking that a sli/crossfire set up may even be possible. Its not practical but those who want 60fps 4k may have a chance to reach that with a notebook dock now. Hopefully as the intel video states we will see some enclosures mainstream sometime in 2016.

 

well lol
but really i want to put pcie processor via thunderbolt
keep rocking laptop with hundred cores to do cpu based computing and do gaming session via amplifier will be awesome and useful for some

 

Now that we're seeing laptops with tb3, is this going to be easy to actually set up?

 

Well, if they adopt the same approach as Dell with their Graphics Amplifier, it should be a casing with room for a PSU and GPU. Then it should just be plug and play, if it's done right. Might require a reboot, so the system can switch to the eGPU.

 

According to Intel its "supposed" to be hot swappable. Will there ever be a scenario where we would be able to use both at the same time? Doesnt Win 10/DX12 support using the "integrated graphics" along with an add on card in desktops?

 

I'm seriously considering buying a TB3 laptop just for eGPU purposes...
hence I first wanted to make sure any laptop with a TB3 port can support eGPU.

Here's the answer I got from the official TB account on twitter
https://twitter.com/GetThunderbolt/status/655070155353919488

Just thought I'd let you guys know before other people buy a laptop now just to discover it doesn't support eGPU

 

Obviously you will need more than just tb3 connection for it to work. Still going to need a PSU and enclosure. I seriously doubt you will need anything special other than Win10 support considering people have been doing eGPU on tb1 and tb2 for a while now.

 

All laptops with tb3 will be able to run egpu with probability 1.

 

It might just be someone from marketing team replying to my tweets....but:
https://twitter.com/GetThunderbolt/status/655069224361066497

That's clearer than the other tweet, eGPU requires a certification. We probably will be able to hack around systems which don't have that certification, but if they have a special certification for that (and from that tweet it seems they do) then they have to have something special (or it's just all marketing, which is possible)

Any reliable source? (I agree with you, I also think TB3 should be enough, but I'd rather have that confirmed, to avoid bad surprises after spending a lot of money on a laptop just for that)


There is also (from Wikipedia):
"Intel will offer two versions of the controller: one that uses a PCI Express 4x link to provide two Thunderbolt 3 ports; and another "LP" (Low Power) version that uses a PCI Express x2 link to provide a single Thunderbolt 3 port."
Yet no manufacturer has specified which version it is shipping on the laptops currently on the market...

 

Finally! I can get a business-class notebook without having to sacrifice gaming

 

Sorry to through sand on the fire, but...

The Alienware Graphics Adapter connects directly go the CPU graphics PCIe bus. This is why the host laptop must shutdown and restart to see it and they disable the on board GPU that would otherwise use this bus. The firewire 3 connection is using the chipset based PCIe bus that is shared by everything except the memory and the graphics bus gpu. The connection between the motherboard bus and the cpu is more or less a 4 chanel PCIe 3 connection.

If you have a 14nm CPU, then you have PCIe 3 that is much faster than PCIe 2 if your software can take advantage of 128/130bit packets over the old 8/10 bit packet size used before PCIe 3.

So the AGA 4 chanel PCIe 3 connection would operate like an 8 chanel PCIe 2 connection. Chatter shows that no GPU has actually implamented 16 channel PCIe 2. The CPU is already the choke point at 8 channel, but DirectX 12 will change that, eventually.

 

Anyone heard any news on these new docks yet?

 

bump on this... any news?

 

just another side question: do I have to use an external display with such eGPUs? this would be a major drawback. If you could "just" plug in the eGPU (and the PSU for it) and start gaming on the notebookscreen, THIS would be the most useful solution for gaming on the go. I would really like that. but the video in the starting post suggests otherwise.

 

This is possible if you do not have a Dedicated GPU in the laptop, in other words 2 GPU's in the laptop.

If you only have say Intel graphics, and you add an eGPU its possible to route signal back.

 

The point of the egpus is to allow you to have a thin and light notebook that is capable of handling daily tasks, but when connected to an external monitor on your desktop give you the ability to game -- so you can realistically buy a $500 laptop that can have graphics chops when docked.
I've seen nothing along th lines of what you've suggested -- rerouting the signal back to the laptop, but I guess it's theoretically possible.

Keep in mind these things were never really intended for gamming "on the go". there are some of these out or that have been available, and they are not small-- even the ones that include an integrated graphics chip (i.e., you don't drop in your own graphics card), they seem way too large to me to be portable. Seems to defeat the purpose of buyinh a small and light laptop, at that point may as well get a 17" capable gamming platform. And while I'm sure prices will go down, the cost of a graphics card (or chipset) is still going to be the floor for pricing, t least several hundred $$$ to a laptop. Again, if you're looking for mobility, better option is to get a capable gaming machine.

 

Just a heads up. Razer are demoing an actual TB3 eGPU dock connected to their "ultrabook" at CES.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/06/razer-blade-stealth/

Not long now

 

that is awesome, and exactly what I'm looking for. Hopefully it won't be proprietary, or be so massively expensive that it's not worth it...

Maybe I jumped the gun getting the MSI-- this really is a game changer (no pun intended)

 

I'm really looking forward to hearing more and when something like this becomes available I can use with the XPS 15 9550 thunderbolt 3 port.

 

Razer seems to be saying that it should work with other laptops with thunderbolt 3 but that manufacturers might need to do some work to support it.

 

I'm pretty confident razer will screw it up somehow-- either by making it proprietary or by charging way too much for it.
I'm hopeful about it, but most likely will end up waiting for the MSI box, if that ever gets released.

 

From PC Gamer about the Razer Core

"There are no special graphics drivers required to make the system work—you’ll just be using the normal AMD or Nvidia drivers for the GPU you place in the enclosure. The one catch is the laptop BIOS. According to Razer, the laptop BIOS will need to properly support Intel graphics switching, so the system can recognize and utilize the dedicated GPU when plugged in, and operate on the integrated GPU when unplugged. Right now, the system only works with the Blade Stealth, but once the Core is released, nothing should prevent Dell or Lenovo or Asus or anyone else from supporting the hardware, too."

 

Theoretically it is just a generic TB3 eGPU enclosure. The only reason it's important is it's the first one that has physically been demoed and display to actually work.

I believe this is only in relation to the automated graphics switching, as well as re-displaying the GPU framebuffer onto the laptop display (ie reverse-optimus).
The enclosure itself should work as a standalone PCIE system on any TB3 laptop (ie. eGPU functions on it's own and Intel IGP gets disabled).

The trick is that first bit. You basically need to enable Hybrid graphics switching drivers so that you get Optimus seamless switching.

 

@zadillo I have also a DELL XPS 15. The version with the 4K Screen and 512 GB SSD. But still there is inside a dedicated GPU. The most threads and news say it only works with an intigrated gpu like intel.
What do you think: Will come a possibilty für two dedicated gpu (one intern/ one extern) soon?

 

According to a previously posted tweet, the XPS 15 is already certified for eGPU use.

Historically, it has been possible to use eGPU with laptops that already have dedicated graphics, but it's necessary to either disable the internal GPU or use an external monitor connected to the eGPU on these systems.

 

What about systems which use their dedicated GPU for any external display signals? E.g. the ThinkPad P50 - very interesting for eGPU purposes (high quality, quad-core, not to bulky, easy upgradeable ram/storage) - but the M1000M/M2000M is needed if u want to use external displays. Can u imagine any infos about eGPU and the P50?

 

I don't know if you can count on it, but I spoke to a Lenovo sales rep today who said the P models (70/50) don't support eGPU...

 

Are 4 pcie lanes on the controller part of the 16 lanes direct to CPU or the 20 lanes of the chipset passing through DMI?

Sent from my Micromax AQ4501 using Tapatalk

 

It depends on the design of the laptop. I'm not sure about the Lenovo P series, but my XPS 15 routes the 16 lanes from the CPU to the onboard GPU and uses chipset lanes for the Thunderbolt controller. Previously, Intel recommended using 8 lanes for the GPU and 4 for Thunderbolt straight from the chipset, but I'm not sure if this is the case for HM170.

DMI is a potential bottleneck, but it doesn't seem to be a problem in practice with I/O-heavy desktop boards, so it probably won't make much of a difference in practice.

 

will there be a time this year where you can just plug in a USB HUB sized block that contains a notebook graphics card like the gtx GTX 990M SLI (notebooks graphics card) and a fan (size of a USB hub)
with external power plug ?


Usb Hub sized EGPU that contains a high end notebooks graphics card with colling and external power
adapter with thunderbolt ?

 

nVidia started supporting TB3 eGPU systems officially! Still beta but it's finally coming.

 

Very cool. I'm really hoping to hear more details about how/if this will work with a laptop like the Dell XPS 15 9550, which has the requisite Thunderbolt 3 but also has an internal GPU already (which some have suggested would be a problem).

 

This link indicates that the XPS is "eGPU certificated" - whatever that exactly means.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GetThunderbolt/status/655069224361066497

 

Yeah, I'd like to think that means that once some formal products start coming out, the XPS 13 and 15 will support them. Certainly they seem like some of the highest profile Thunderbolt 3 laptops around.

 

That is what I'd like also

An mxm hub that is powered by the laptop. Room for a 980 laptop card with a fan or two in it . overall fits ins a bag you can keep with your laptop

 

hey all
i dug this up recently, been researching the best laptop/egpu combination. seems to me that the acer aspire v15 nitro packs a GTX960M and i7-6700HQ, and Thunderbolt 3 and can be had for less than $1000. Reasonably powerful without an egpu at that price. I found this reply from an Acer tech to the question about eGPU over their V15 thunderbolt: http://community.acer.com/t5/V-and-VN-Series/V15-Nitro-TB3-eGPU-possible/td-p/412512

EDIT: and found this even handier googledocs someone made that tracks egpu thunderbolt 3 laptops- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12G1VTFWkTL5tb8nxUAtnDHwTLyya9I3Vw-OXXrIN4e4/edit?pli=1#gid=0

 

Well a similar laptop is the dell xps15 I just bought

I got it for 1250. I feel like it's a better deal for the extra cash than the Acer although I'm inclined to think they are made by the same oem called wistron

 

Which XPS is that? I'm trying to find the cheapest possible egpu thunderbolt 3 candidate, preferably with at least an i7 and a gtx 960m

 

Xps 15 9550

I got one arriving Thursday.

Uhd izgo screen
1250 on eBay.

 

I just don't want to spend that much on a GTX 960M, I don't really care about UHD. Basically I'm just hunting ebay for the lowest price 970M with thunderbolt 3 that I can find. Any ideas?