Advice needed 9100 vs d800 vs 8600

Hi all,

Could do with some unbiased advise ... after much looking for a new decent laptop I keep coming back to dell ...

... wanting laptop will last 3-4 yrs before upgrading ... need it to do webdesign, macromedia, photoshop, and similar programs and programming ... regard myself as power internet/computer user but at this stage no gaming ... dont have time ... watch lot dvds, and do lot of multimedia type stuff ... ideally looking at desktop replacement but do like long battery life ... will be carrying in backpack so weight not that big issue ... will be using wireless keyboad/mouse as well

at this stage considering 9100, 3.2, SXGA, 256mb (upgrade to 512/1g later), DVD/RW, 80gb, (would like 60gb 7200rpm but this option not available in UK)wireless

Heres my questions:
1. How does 9100 above compare to similar spec'd D800 or 8600 (ie with 1.7kh), 256mb, ...
as my other option is getting a refurbised D800 and upgrading hard drive etc myself to keep costs down
or should I go with 8600

2. What does including bluetooth allow you to do that wireless card doesnt?

3. Any other other laptops I should consider?

Thanks
sleepy

 

Hi Sleepy,

I'm in the UK as well, so my advice might help somewhat. In fact, you CAN get the 60gig 7200rpm drive, but you have to phone and REALLY badger them that you need this drive. Don't order online, order by phone as then the order will be processed much more quickly. But, when ordering from Dell you have to be savvy. They have an extremely confusing and hit-miss pricing policy which you really have to know about before you buy. For example, I have an I8600 with following specs:

PM 1.7 GHz, 1GB RAM (2 DIMMs), WUXGA screen, 60GB 7200rpm Hitatchi Travelstar HD, 4X DVD-RW, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro graphics card, Dell 1450 wireless b/g, XP Home, free 64MB MP3 player/memory stick.

If you ordered that straight from the website it'll cost around £2000. I got it for £1450. That deal is also on the website, but it's under "Awards and Reviews" (in the Home/Small Office section). If you want an 8600, start from one of the featured deals in that section and then customise it - it'll be so much cheaper! Then, phone Dell and tell them the deal you found online and that you want to order the same deal by phone instead (the sales assistant will be very happy to do this; they make commission on every sale!). If you want an 8600, I'd definitely go with the setup I ordered myself, but instead get an a/b/g wireless card and also bluetooth, and not just the b/g card. The "a" standard is 20 times faster then "b" and four times faster then "g", and it's only £10 more. It's not standard everywhere yet, but probably will be in the future, so it's worth getting. I don't use bluetooth myself, but it doesn't cost that much more to get a bluetooth card, so I would definitely also order that. What bluetooth does is allow you to use peripherals (e.g. mouse, full size keyboard) and PDA's wirelessly.

I noticed that you're thinking of ordering the SXGA screen instead of the UXGA one. My advice would be to go with the latter, it's a really beautiful screen -- when you first turn on the computer the text will be quite small, but after some tweaking you can normalise the text size in all your applications and in windows iteself whilst keeping the graphics resolution the same, and then it'll be really amazing! (see previous posts on how to do the tweaking...)

Now.... You asked about whether to order the 9100, 8600 or D800. I'd also consider the Precision M60 (if you really want a Dell). The build quality of the D800 and M60 are much, much better than the 8600 and 9100, with the M60 being the best. If you want you're laptop for the next 4 years, the M60 will take almost any abuse you give it, it's built really well. The 9100 and 8600 cases and chassis are made from plastic (the former two are made of trilaminate metal), so you have to be careful with them. Also, they have a tendency to creak when you move them about (like any other plastic laptop, which includes most out there...).

The problem with the D800 is that you cannot order the ATI 9600 card with it, the included graphics card being well, crap. I think this rules out the Lattitude series for you. You have to choose between 9100, 8600 and M60. The fully loaded M60 performance is exactly equal in computational power to a fully loaded 8600. In fact, the 8600 even has a slight edge over the M60 as it uses the ATI graphics card (if you order it with one) instead of an nVidia card. The M60 uses an nvidia FX 1000, which is a souped up version of the 5650, featuring faster OpenGL graphics. However when I ran Cinebench on my 8600, the OpenGL was just as fast as the M60. Factor in as well that the DX9 performance is waaay better with the ATI card, and you have it that the 8600 is actually a little better than the M60 performance wise. But the build quality of the M60 makes up for this.... The BIG caveat is that the M60 will cost about twice the price of a similarly specced 8600. Phone Dell and see if they can do a deal for you........

Now, the 9100. Performance wise it is MUCH better than the 8600, but it comes at a price; ~1-1.5 kg extra weight, 50% of the battery life, much bulkier, noisier. The 9100 really is meant to be a desktop replacement instead of an on-the-move laptop, but if you can live with these downsides, I would go for it. For me, I needed computational power but something with good battery life that I could take everywhere with me to use just like say a book. The 8600 definitely fits the bill which is why it was my choice.

If you want a desktop replacement, there are plenty of machines to compete with the 9100. Go to WH Smith's and buy the latest laptop magazines, one of them does a review of the latest desktop replacements. Some of them are really decked out, for example with 17" screens, so I would advise looking around first before you finally order. Another brand I'd also strongly consider is HP. The Sony Vaio's are also really nice, with much better trackpads and keyboards than the Dell's (this is the only problem I have with my Dell; I hate the keyboard and trackpad/trackstick, sort of uncomfortable to use. They're much better on the D800 and M60...). Also, I'd strongly look into the IBM R60 and T41p series, but they're REALLY expensive.

You mentioned that weight is not really an issue as you'll be carrying your laptop in a backpack..... My advice, think about that a little more! If it's over 3kg, even if you're carrying it in a backpack, it might become a burden on you!

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask more questions!

 

Magiciaen,

Thank you very much for taking the time to give me some feedback and for your very helpful suggestions.

The M60 sounds great but unfortunately a little pricey was hoping to spend around £1300. The UXGA, bluetooth and 60gig 7200rpm drive definately seem the way to go if I get 9100.

Have had look at few mags recently and most were recommending uk branded machines Id never heard of for best desktop replacements. Dont particulary like the hp thin wide based models or sony viao for that matter. The acer 2003wi was recommended but didnt like the controls on front of it.

Starting to look bit more like 9100 vs 8600 although still not sure which way to go.

Some more questions:
1. Do you know if its possible to get a remote control for use with dell laptops.

2. Is there any difference ordering by small business vs home user. ... as the 9100 recomeended system Im looking at is in smalll business section

3. When you ordered via phone did you make any specific requests in getting it down from 2000 to 1400. The customised 9100 I mentioned 3.2, 80, 256, is currently listed for around £1320. The only things I can think of asking is for free shipping and seeing if theyll throw in logitech keyboard for £10 (which is one of their current outlet deals) or should I simply ask for their best price.


Cheers,
sleepy

 

Hi Sleepy,

First of all, there is quite a bit of difference between ordering as a home user and a business user; the latter means your after sales support will be MUCH MUCH better (no transfers to call centres in India for example). The caveat is it is then a bit more expensive....

Now, I've logged on to the website and found some deals for you. Check out the following page:

http://commerce.euro.dell.com/dellstore/default.asp?s=uktra&l=en&m=gbp&n=&cu=uktra&v=d&cc=&ogn=&kcd=&ad=&mc=&rs=&cuid=&cg=&pch=1&pn=-1&demo=&gc=&sbc=ukdhs&co=&c=2637

You can get an i8600 with the following specs for £1445 (quote promotion number IO8REV):

PM 1.7 GHz 1M on-die Cache, WUXGA screen, 60GB 7200rpm HD, 1GB RAM (2x 512MB DIMMs), 4x DVD-RW, 128MB ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 Pro, TrueMobile 1400 Wireless Mini-PCI card 802.11 a/b/g, Internal Bluetooth Card + free delivery, free MP3 player/camera/printer (pick one).

This is even better than mine!

You can also get the following 9100 for £1526 (quote IO9REV):

Pentium 3.2GHz 800MHz bus 512MB Cache (Northwood), WUXGA screen, 1GB RAM, 80GB HD (phone and ask for a 60GB 7200rpm, no difference in price!), ATI Mobility RADEON 9700 128MB, 4x DVD-RW, TrueMobile 1400 Wireless Mini-PCI card 802.11 a/b/g, Dell TrueMobile 300 Bluetooth Module + free delivery & free accessory.

These are both really decked out machines. The 9100 will be much faster, but I prefered the 8600 as it is still really fast, but much more mobile -- just what I need.

The other thing you have to note!!!! The LAN on the 9100 and 8600 is only 10/100 Mbps. On other desktop replacements I have seen in mags, it is 10/100/1000 Mbps. Big difference if you're going to be connected to a LAN.

Also note that in the deals I've quoted, there is 1GB of RAM thrown in.

 

Another thing, whatever you do, DON'T GET AN ADVENT!!! They're heavy, crack ever so easily, and are well, rubbish basically.

Have no idea about the remote control...... Maybe someone else on the forum can advise?

 

Magiciaen,

Thanks again for your awesome help its much appreciated. I had been so busy watching 9100 via business link Id forgotten the home specials ...

Was looking at
http://commerce.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config/frameset.asp?s=ukbsd&l=en&m=gbp&c=605&n=5691&cu=ukbsd&v=d&cc=&ogn=&kcd=&ad=&mc=&rs=&cuid=&cg=&pch=1&pn=5691&demo=&gc=&sbc=ukbsdftdppnotebook3&co=&b=49259

which gave
Pentium 3.2GHz 800MHz bus 512MB Cache (Northwood), WUXGA screen, ONLY 512B RAM, 80GB HD (ATI Mobility RADEON 9700 128MB, 4x DVD-RW, TrueMobile 1400 Wireless Mini-PCI card 802.11 a/b/g, Dell TrueMobile 300 Bluetooth Module + but no free free delivery & no free accessory.

for £1419.

I also noticed the i8600 (IO8REV) for £1,451.43 might also come down another £200 to £1251 if I asked for 1 year return warranty rather than 3yr alothugh 1year option isnt listed. So I guess that will be £300 difference to 9100. What do you think?

Can you remember how long your 8600 took to ship it says on site 9100 will take up to 4 weeks but I assume thats bit quicker now.

sleepy

 

Yo sleepy,

It took one week for my i8600 to arrive, which I was really chuffed about. Unfortunately, I've checked the IO8REV deal, and it comes with 1 year collect and return warranty as standard; so you can't get £200 off!! The deal you mentioned for the 9100 is good except for the memory; sure, it's 512MB but it is two 256 DIMMs. That means you'll have to throw them both away to upgrade to 1GB. In contrast, the other deal I showed you was less than £100 more but had the RAM sorted. It's £100 difference, but you'll have to spend that amount anyway if you want to buy 1GB of RAM from another online vendor, so I think the other one (IO9REV) would be your best bet if you want the 9100.

Still thinking about which one to get? All I can tell you is that I'm really happy with my 8600, mostly because it's a proper laptop (has such good battery life, can take it with me anywhere and do some work). If you deperately need to do some serious computing (e.g. Monte Carlo simulations, 3D graphics emulation) then the 9100 is much better (although the 8600 is still really powerful -- I do those things I mentioned on it!), but you lose mobility big time (remember, it's not just laptop weight; also battery life and noise. The power brick on the 9100 is REALLY heavy, and you'll need to take that with you on top of the 9100 weight if you want to go anywhere because of the poor battery life. In contrast, the 8600 has 4.5-5hrs battery life, so you save the weight of the - much lighter anyway - power adaptor). Have a think about it.........

Remember, no matter what you decide, configure your final specs on the website, PHONE Dell and tell them how you got to the review deals website, quote the deal number, and then order (will arrive more quickly). Also absolutely make sure they send you the 7200rpm drive, you have to really clarify that with them! And try and bargain with them and see if they will take any more money off, or throw in the logitech keyboard....

Good luck!

 

Magiciaen,

I was actually referring to the (IO7REV)deal. As the IO8REV deal only comes with 60G Hard drive whereas the IO7REV deal had the 80G Harddrive which Id change to 60/7200 and currently has 3yr waranty pre-selected. Although there isnt a 1yr option for some reason. I assume I could change this on phone.

Taking it to £1,545.43 with 3yr warranty ... down to ~ 1345.00 1yr warranty (inc printer upgrade + cable ie +£30)

Or have I missed something ... If you could take a look Id appreciate it.

Had been looking more at 9100 but with your help I am now leaning towards the 8600 as it looks like you get a similiar specd machine with greater mobility and im not even a gamer. Was a little conscerned about the thinness of 8600 and the flex of keyboard etc but as I will be using the logitech thats probably not even an issue.

When you ordered yr 8600 did you speak to salesperson in UK or does it go through to someone in India or is that just for customers support.... and did you call their 0870 907 5819 to order.

I also noticed it has a 4x DVD-RW burner ... is this the same as the CDRW /2x DVD-RW or does it mean it only plays DVDs and no CDs. As I could see this being a major hassle as all my software/files are currentl on Cds.

And with regard to the logitech MX keyboard buyers have a wireless or bluetooth option. Do you know whats the difference and should I be getting bluetooth one?

And what do you lug it around in ... I was thinking of targus deluxe sportsbag ...

Thanks a heap [ ]
sleepy

 

By the way, I tested the processor speed for the PM 1.7GHz and it's exactly equivalent to a Pentium 2.6GHz desktop. Not as fast as 3.2GHz, but remember, that speed is only true for the 9100 when you have it plugged on. On battery it's much slower, whereas the PM 1.7 will increase/decrease speed to conserve power; if you need more computing power while on battery, the PM 1.7 will give it to you whilst the 9100 will not.

 

Hi sleepy,

Yes, I see it now.... What a mistake I did; I got the IO8REV instead of the IO7REV. They were doing a free HD upgrade offer at the time, so I thought I'd save the £30 and go for the IO8REV, thought they were both the same otherwise. Bother!! Could have gotten free 3YR warranty.... Oh well, will try and phone them up tomorrow and whine, and try and get them to give me the warranty for free.

You might get some money off if you phone them, but I'm not so sure, I wouldn't count on it. I think it's something Dell have bundled to make the offer more attractive, not to give money back as it were. But it never hurts to try! But you know now of course, that even if they don't agree to give money back for the 1YR warranty, to get the IO7REV as it's a great deal.

As I mentioned, the 9100 is a REALLY fast machine, faster than the 8600. But the 8600 is so much more portable. About the thinness, it doesn't make it any weaker robustness wise. The keyboard on the 8600 is exactly the same as on the 9100, a little flexible. Whichever one you get, it will be really loose in the lower left corner. If you phone Dell for support and you send the machine in, all they will do is put some stick on foam under the keyboard. Don't even bother to send it in, I removed the keyboard myself and did it in a few minutes, and now the keyboard is fine, much more comfortable to use.

About the 4x DVD-RW. This is the fastest DVD-RW available for laptops on the market. Other laptops only have up to 2x. Don't be fooled by the "DVD-RW" acronym. It is multiformat and will play anything and write anything including CD-R and CD-RW, and really fast for those as well (the 4x is only the DVD-RWriting speed). There is a more advanced version coming out for laptops later this year which is 12x, but if you kept waiting for the latest thing you'll never buy anything in the computer industry! (As well as being a medical student, I'm also a physicist and do research designing the next generation of nanoprocessors -- going to San Francisco this summer to give a lecture on my work so far at the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors meeting! These kind of chips will really kick laptop butt when we get round to building them in 15 yrs!)

Yes, that phone number is the same one I used. You will be put through to a UK sales representative for the sale, but once you give your credit card number, AFTER that you are at the mercy of the India call centre people!! (sneaky tactic)

There's only two days left for the free printer offer, so if you want that you have to order soon. The thing with Dell printers is that you have to use Dell cartridges (that's why they're giving them away for free), have no idea how much the cartridges cost. I much prefer HP printers myself, just bought a deskjet 5150. Check how much the cartridges are before you get it, they might cost a bomb. If they do, get the MP3 player, as it doubles as a 64MB "floppy drive" (remember, the laptop has no floppy), so it'll save you having to buy a memory stick for a while. The camera is quite a cheap one, not majorly large pixel wise.

All the best!

 

By the way, forgot to answer your last two questions! :

I bought the Dell rucksack for my laptop. It is built very ruggedly, and is worth more than the £30 I spent I reckon, but it is a bit bulky, so I wouldn't recommend it. The best bag I know of is the Victorinox WebSak 2.0, which I hope to buy eventually. Problem is it is a couple of hundred squid! They talk about it on the forum here at:

http://www.notebookreview.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=983

A picture of it is at:

http://www.swissarmytravelgear.com/webstore/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=2549&category=130

As for the keyboard, wireless vs. bluetooth. I'm not to sure it makes a big difference...... Wireless and blutetooth are discussed (the future of it anyway!) also on this forum at:

http://www.notebookreview.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1190

Have no experience with using bluetooth, so you might want to ask others on the forum about which way to go on this!

 

P.P.P.S....

By the way, the 8600 is actually an extremely respectable gaming machine, even for DX9 games. It's reviewed at the following website, but the version reviewed had a crappy nVidia 5650 card. They said they would have given the 8600 top marks for gaming if it had had an ATI 9600 pro card, which of course they are now available with.

http://www.gamers-depot.com/hardware/notebooks/dell/8600_ati/001.htm

I think this review is now updated to reflect the ATI 9600 card...