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    $600 Inspiron 5402 14" - A wolf in a sheep suit

    Discussion in 'Dell' started by Not-meee, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    There are also people that simply like the experience of owning a higher-end product. I could have gotten more hardware for less money by going with a more conventional gaming laptop over an XPS. Every one I've tried over the last 12-18 months has had a compromise (or several) that I wasn't ultimately willing to live with, be it the keyboard, trackpad, screen, fan noise/thermals, software, or battery life. I have no issues with any of these things on the XPS 17. Sure, the maximum 130W charging capacity is something of a downside, but I've yet to experience battery drain in my workloads.
     
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  2. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Gamer or not, you have raised questions, which I have followed along and came back with my own findings, as I got around to them. If I had a group of gamers asking this or that, I would be side tracked, and doing what ever for their curiosity. Let alone get a lot of back and fourth deviation. I do not do well with groups, and manage along at my own pace. I am fairly well done here... so if gamers and fanboys want to have it out, they can take over.... like I really doubt much will be said any further.

    I guess you misunderstood me as much as I misunderstood you. I never intended to compare high end with mid range, both on CPU or GPU. Was stating with mid range in all its worth, newer CPU options are better when given a choice, so there is no need to go dedicated especially on mid range laptops, unless they offer a more serious gaming option, as an alternative to Iris xe.

    As for what GPU you order, really does not make much difference. It's medium level hardware, and in price structure. To the level of capabilites, medium grade, does not mean low to mid range performance. I have seen, higher priced laptops with all the bells and whistles, just come down to a few better components. Though even with higher end laptops, a cheaper drive may have been installed in a base model which would make it seem to perform no better than a mid range laptop. I may have allowed for comparisons loosely, but I never intended to make you think I blanketed high end being the same as mid range. Gaming never was on the table, I just made comments at times to allow for casual gaming experiences, as if I wanted to try a a game or two, that is not so intensive on gpu capabilities. To me it's insane to even think it would keep up against a Razer or XPS on on higher level gaming, equally. Though it does not keep the laptop from doing very well against some dedicated GPUs offered on mid level laptops.

    I can't compare as to how much difference on plus minus scale, but just saying time and time again, reviews on the 11th gen Intel hardware are less to be desired. Yet nobody is surprised either with my hardware findings or with the lack of proper information in regards to specs.
     
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  3. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Here is another update... I found Windows sucks at allowing for full performance mode on laptops. I don't know how the schema fits as such but I found through trial and error, the Dell battery management is stupid as ... you fill in the blank.

    Removed the POS, and added a tweak to allow CPU speed overide in performance settings. I tested in increments from 4000MHz up to 4600Mhz and will be keeping it there. I know my CPU is only capable of 4200MHz with turbo boost. Well low and behold I broke through the barrier.

    Major improvement that reflects full potential of the Iris Xe, i5 setup. Beats the i7, but that's because nobody has unlocked the power on their new system.

    Here is the latest numbers on top, and the standard numberd below.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    I'd love to see some screen shots of your CPU exceeding the max turbo frequency as defined by Intel.
     
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  5. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Never said I exceeded Intel's cpu limitations. I am forcing windows not to limit or throttle down maximum frequency. I am not sure if Windows is defaulting limits with hardware, on laptops, or if Dell battery monitor utility has hosed the windows power management features. None the less from the data seen from reviews and sites, it looks to be a windows thing, or bios. I have set my bios to be AC powered, as with the Dell battery management utility before I started bench marking. Now the utility is removed, though I had to enable the old windows power management feature to limit or unrestrict maximum frequency of the CPU when under AC power.

    Basically by pushing beyond the CPU limit, your forcing windows not to throttle at the limit. The CPU is in control of its throttling. I hope you see the reason why I pushed beyond the 4.2Ghz limit in power managment,

    Though one wee thing puzzles me, there are two or more benchmarks that show lower than original. I assume Defender or windows update had a process. Unlike most who setup for gaming, I do not disable features I rely on more than games.

    Also I may need to check game mode, even though I don't plan on games, I leave it on. I will try out another set of benchmarks without game mode enabled. Also I think intel graphics management has game mode or something like it in the settings.

    I may have to do 4 benchmark run throughs, fully disabled game mode, windows xbox only game mode, intel only game mode, and back to both game modes enabled. All with my CPU frequency override on power managment. It may be enlightening, to see what is going on in Windows and all with various settings.

    Now I am only down to just using non intel drivers from Dell, and Dell's phone connection manager application, outside of Intel managment and drivers.
     
  6. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    I'm confused, you say
    "I hope you see the reason why I pushed beyond the 4.2Ghz limit in power managment"

    Do you mean you're setting it to ask for more than 4.2GHz or are you saying it's running at higher than 4.2GHz.

    Sorry I thought windows uses a percentage and not a gigahertz.
     
  7. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Ah, I see now... I never thought about the battery on the task bar. I am old school. Control panel, system, power, advanced power management. CPU Power management. The trouble is winows now makes it dumbified. You must enable the bloody thing to show CPU power management. From there you can manually enter in MHZ the frequency for maximum on both the battery and AC.

    I haven't the time now to do my test runs with finding what works best on the benchmarks. Though having the Dell power manager and the CPU override on power management seems like a good to for any machine. Just don't know why limits were active under AC power. One thing I also don't like is balanced. Since when does any one want balanced power to be your only option when plugged in. Crimey!
     
  8. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    Curious if you've used ThrottleStop before? It's one of the best applications for any Intel laptop in my opinion.
     
  9. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Oh, I try not to use any tools other than what is needed. If I can manage on my own, I won't bother. Just never had to mess with power managment before. Use to get what I wanted from it with no issues, until I moved away from Windows 7, I did mention windows 10 is as new to me as the laptop.

    Not sure if some of the issues with noticing performance fluctuate though my testing as I go methods. I think some of it was on Dell's updates. There was a lot of them since early December.

    As long as I am able to control the system's power management in the bios, in setting it and leaving it. Dell's managment app being removed, should help in keeping that part stable. Just windows needed a wee kick in the arse.

    I just never thought about it, as it's been hidden. I did notice through performance counters I was hitting proper frequencies, so I never bothered to go deeper. Don't ask me why I bothered to go into Windows power managment to do what I did, it was one of them old school ways of managing battery when unplugged, when I noticed the lack of CPU control. So once I enabled it, I started tinkering, mostly because it defaults to 000000 on both battery and powered. Which really confused me, once I saw it. So I plugged in some starters and did a test run. Which I saw a minor increase with 4 ghz to start, so I figured even though the system hits max frequency at the CPU, there is some shortening of the time it is allowed. Knowing turbo boost is not a constant speed, I figured windows may be holding back, not the cpu. So I push it to the 4.2 limit and tested again. Which did even better. Now with 4.6 set and no issues, I will test with gfxbench even more to see what is best on the settings. Though I find GFXBench a wee problematic. Sorta unreliable with server connex. The only reason why I use it, is to get a good idea of capabilites across the board. Other bench tests combine too much as one big result.

    Anyway... I am not really tweaking for games, just tackling troubles as I see them more clearly. I am almost positive it's Dell's management messing with the laptop, even though there was a bit of updates from MS and Dell. I still think the 3rd bios update mess with it as well, but the Dell managment also had been updated around that time.

    I am glad I found a cause of concern for all Dell users, who have not removed the Power management application. Though it requires tweaking the registry, to correct what dell has done, when it was installed.
     
  10. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Well, I cleaned out my intel graphics settings and reinstalled the drivers. Cleared out power management, and toggled windows game mode, before running gfxbench twice, to get a base line.

    Unfortunately gfxbench servers are a bit wonky. Unable to grab data from the two tests remotely with my android tablet. I can grab old data, but nothing recent.

    I did find that Dell battery management application is nothing special. I am begining to think a bios update or hardware update from Dell is the culprit... but I will continue further. Just the laptop now is in general use, so having it go back to being a test bed, is a bit more difficult than isolating the performance issue.

    One thing I have not done is restore windows advanced power managment features that are missing.

    You can restore them by using command shell as Administrator.

    Here are the commands for each feature

    powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 12a0ab44-fe28-4fa9-b3bd-4b64f44960a6 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 06cadf0e-64ed-448a-8927-ce7bf90eb35d -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_SLEEP 25DFA149-5DD1-4736-B5AB-E8A37B5B8187 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes 9596FB26-9850-41fd-AC3E-F7C3C00AFD4B 03680956-93BC-4294-BBA6-4E0F09BB717F -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_SLEEP A4B195F5-8225-47D8-8012-9D41369786E2 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_SLEEP d4c1d4c8-d5cc-43d3-b83e-fc51215cb04d -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_SLEEP 7bc4a2f9-d8fc-4469-b07b-33eb785aaca0 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes 2a737441-1930-4402-8d77-b2bebba308a3 d4e98f31-5ffe-4ce1-be31-1b38b384c009 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes 2a737441-1930-4402-8d77-b2bebba308a3 0853a681-27c8-4100-a2fd-82013e970683 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_VIDEO A9CEB8DA-CD46-44FB-A98B-02AF69DE4623 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_BUTTONS 5ca83367-6e45-459f-a27b-476b1d01c936 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_BUTTONS 99ff10e7-23b1-4c07-a9d1-5c3206d741b4 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_DISK dab60367-53fe-4fbc-825e-521d069d2456 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_DISK 80e3c60e-bb94-4ad8-bbe0-0d3195efc663 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_DISK 0b2d69d7-a2a1-449c-9680-f91c70521c60 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes 9596FB26-9850-41fd-AC3E-F7C3C00AFD4B 10778347-1370-4ee0-8bbd-33bdacaade49 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes 9596FB26-9850-41fd-AC3E-F7C3C00AFD4B 34C7B99F-9A6D-4b3c-8DC7-B6693B78CEF4 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes 19cbb8fa-5279-450e-9fac-8a3d5fedd0c1 12bbebe6-58d6-4636-95bb-3217ef867c1a -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes F15576E8-98B7-4186-B944-EAFA664402D9 -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_VIDEO aded5e82-b909-4619-9949-f5d71dac0bcc -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_DISK 6b013a00-f775-4d61-9036-a62f7e7a6a5b -ATTRIB_HIDE
    powercfg -attributes SUB_VIDEO f1fbfde2-a960-4165-9f88-50667911ce96 -ATTRIB_HIDE

    If your features do not populate, then you will need to adjust the registry.

    Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power

    Set CsEnabled to 0

    You can check to see throttling is enabled, PowerThrottlingOff and change the dword to 1 to disable.

    Then reboot, and you should be able to adjust power managment indepentantly by device or within advanced power managment.

    I should have some results over the weekend. Just clearing out and rechecking wee details as I start to isolate the cause that's effecting performance. I will reset/override pci-e windows power management settings, as there seems to be a global issue with data throughput, not just cpu on power managment.
     
  11. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Alright, I have gotten more than I bargained for. I forgot to add... we'll here is a link to get the hidden features in power managment.

    https://appuals.com/how-to-restore-missing-power-plan-options-on-windows-10/

    Here is a the bookoo list of cpu adjustments, though I am missing NVME and PCI-E adjustments, which I feel are just as critical. Now you can see why I go through the trouble of looking deeper into the system, before throwing tools and what not at it. I will have to dig deeper, as it looks. Though just the CPU stuff is a bit mind boggling as it is. I will have to print out a list of MS features at a granular level to sort out all the configs proper. I have noted that there were some settings about power save policies within the performance mode. I think Dell power managment overrides a bit more than expected. Here is just 1/4 if not 1/5 of the CPU settings now available on my laptop.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    Or you could just install throttle stop and change speed shift values, lol.
     
  13. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Like I said, I don't use tools for settings I can do on my own. In fact you can stop throttling, very easy by adding a registry value and key. Though it effects battery. Thus the reason to enable various options, for personal use as to your needs.

    Do as you may, I am just pointing out, what can be done to change or fix what may have done in battery managment and power settings.

    Just disabling throttling, is great for game systems, I have tried to point out this is not a game system. Without having to go all out to prove anything, I am stating more or less, that some underlying features or background adjustments need to be done, and it is pointing to dell managment. I thought I would need it to utilize the fast charge and thunderbolt capabilities better, than just letting them be enabled. I could just revert back by uninstalling the updates from the begining of the month, as a fix, but I like having the ability of tweaking a wee bit more to adjust for better performance than just be bandaiding, with a utility.
     
  14. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    The bandaid you refer to is an easy way to set all aspects of your CPU. You don't have to use it, I was simply pointing out it's much better than digging around and probably more effective.

    Having said that, you still have to do some registry stuff because of Dell's inability to let user's control their own system. It really is cancer drivers/firmware that hold these laptops back.
     
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  15. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend hours (in your case days, apparently) making deep changes to my computer that can be just as easily done with a piece of software. Even better, said changes changes done with ThrottleStop can be completely undone by deleting a single file.

    If you want to mess with registry edits and installing/uninstalling other things, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect others to follow you off the cliff when there's a much simpler and more user friendly way.
     
  16. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Like I said I am old school. Been dealing with Windows Registry since Windows NT 4.0. Put it this way, some Linux peeps prefer a non gui interface to tweak and manage from, the windows registry is a more direct way, than to rely on apps. As for regedit, it is simple and can be easily reverted if so inclined. Just save a copy of the key you edit and you have a perfect backup for safety.

    It is not that much time to mess with a registry with a lot of changes. You can make a copy of your backup, and edit it, using a search and replace, save as the tweaked version, and there you go.

    The only time consumming issue is adjusting for my taste in perforance in battery mode, and tweaking for heat generation and fan use under AC power. Using full blown desktop mode is not an option for a thin laptop with limited cooling.

    I don't know why my option cannot be as accepted equally as i am with your own. Never said anything negative, or too deeply compare with. Just explained why I prefer to do how I do things. I am just showing there is a lot already baked in windows.

    My thread was done, just adding stuff I found late, and may or may not be any concern to others. I do believe there is more to power schema, than just disabling throttling. But it seems no body is interested in finding out but me.

    It was out of my kindness to bring it up, so to speak. I am fairly sure I found the issue, and I will work at getting it resolved, just making a point that you can adjust deeper if wanting to. Its not a big concern anyway, as the laptop does go into performance mode. After all I never liked the limited power schema of 10, and now I am liking it even more than 7. Just had to dig a wee further into enabling some features.
     
  17. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    I finally have a complete revert back to bios firmware 1.1.5, which performs the best under Windows 10. I am able to have consistent 6720 to 6800 read speeds now.

    Here are the steps to keep bios updates in check and remove the blasted Intel management system from playing with power management.

    1) In device manager remove all firmware devices (3 in total). Be sure to remove driver when prompted. This firmware driver has been a problem long before my new Dell.

    2) Install the older dell bios 1.1.5.

    3) Once rebooted, verify in device managerk the presence of the recreated firmware devices. If the system firmware shows a revision number, perform steps 1 and 2 again, in order.

    4) If no revision is shown in the firmware devices, disable all 3 firmware devices.

    5) Verify bios is 1.1.5 by runing the older 1.1.5 bios utility. If any of the firmware revisions show a difference between updated and installed, allow the utility to perform the update again during reboot. All should be good from now on, once a complete revert back to 1.1.5 system bios is done.
     
  18. staarek

    staarek Newbie

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    hi everyone,

    I was wondering if anyone can help. I've got exactly this unit (5402) with i7 processor but i don't seem to find anywhere if usb-c is also a Thunderbolt. I know that Tiger lake has Thunderbolt 4 capability, however this is a budget laptop and i was wondering if dell disabled it somehow or if works "out of the box"? Thanks!
     
  19. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    The first post of this thread clarifies that it is thunderbolt 4.
     
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  20. staarek

    staarek Newbie

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    Thank you very much.
     
  21. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    @Not-meee , I read back through this, you new inspiron has 2 SSD slots correct?
     
  22. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Correct! Not many have two full sized m.2 slots. Though it seems, the secondary is limited to pci-e 3.0 speeds. I assume next years models will be full pci-e 4.0 on all ports

    The choice of using the 980 Pro over the 870 Evo Plus, was that the pro will run cooler being ran at half speed. It's not over driving the hardware.

    When you weed down all the available options with laptops, the Dell is perfect for end user growth. For those who want a more robust build, the Vostro version should show less wear on the surface and be a bit stronger. With the new intel chips coming, I would expect a big improvement for xps lovers, assuming late last year's XPS will be overshadowed by the upcoming Inspiron.
     
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  23. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    Awesome. That device is the best bang for the buck out there for someone wanting decent speed, upgradability and a device that don't look like startrek's enterprise and a ti-fighter had a love child.
     
  24. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    That's what I have been explaining for some time through my thread. For the slim design and light weight. Tiger Lake is the evil step chid of Rocket Lake. Look for the Dell Vostro / Inspiron Tiger Lake laptops, as they become available as used. They are true sleepers, that can do games, when properly setup. I chose the 14 because I am not a gamer. The offset keyboard and touch pad, just is not me. You could get a ten key or learn to use the top row, like I have. The 15, would be the norm for gamer laptops, though I have no clue if the 15 panel is the same in performance as the 14. The 14 IPS display is pretty darn good for a mid priced laptop.

    When you look at the features and performance as a whole, not many offer a laptop that can compare with price scheme. HP 14 / 15 come close but far from being cost effective once you make the options equal to the Dell. I wanted to compare the HP, but it's battery and power option lacks, the m.2 port options are not equal, and RAM limits cost savings when upgrading. The Dell gives up performance by cheap & slow SSD and single channel memory setup. But once you lift the hood, and add ram to complete dual channel memory, and upgrade to a fast NVME, with some bios changes. BAM, you got more than what you paid for. If I was all interested in games, i7 would be the choice. Mainly due to the increased graphics capability. AMD lacks decode for AV1, which is important, and many are unaware until you watch online streaming. 1/3 more battery time does make a difference.

    It's not a convertable, or 2 in 1. But it does make them envious.
     
  25. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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  26. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    As long as it's thunderbolt 4 capable, I see no reason not. Remember thunderbolt on AMD systems is only 3.0, so Intel will kick AMD bum on upgradabliity. If your worried about the capabilities of Rocket Lake, then wait for the next gen coming out late in the year. It's going to cost more, but gamers will eat it up for light weight hot pluggable expansion, that does not need huge cooling systems.

    Games and video conversion are the only things that kicks in the quiet fan. It's petty close to being a convertible with the lack of noise and heat. With AV1 built in, heat rarely is an issue with long bouts of HDstreaming. Weights 1/2 the weight of my G6 with high capacity battery, and longer battery run time, with x2 the speed, since the G6 is only PCI-E 2.0. Remarkably windows 10 makes the G6 much more speedy than all the other Windows versions. Only NT4.0 is faster and more stable, but no drivers for newer than 20 year old systems. MS screwed the pooch when they made NT plug and play with bloat. Them Linux peeps, should have invested all their time and efforts in reviving NT, into something bigger than linux for what it is now. After all they complain about MS being too closed source and like console commands to feel in control.
     
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  27. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    OK. I want it for video and photo editing. Instead of building a desktop I will get the new 2 in 1 and a eGpu for editing setup with another 24" monitor.
     
  28. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    From what I gather, you probably be best off with an i7 as to use it on the go. As for desktop, a thunderbolt egpu dock and hdmi connected monitor. The Intel graphics is good enough to allow HD displays, and being thunderbolt 4, the video processing can be offloaded to the egpu. I would wait for the next gen laptop, as Intel Iris is growing into a fairly decent GPU.
     
  29. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    As far as I can tell, the i7 2 in 1 up here in Canada has IRIS. I would be getting the i7, installing 64gb of ram, and 2 SSD. Then running 2 24" ultrasharp dell monitors off that. I have one already which is touchscreen and I love it, I will be getting another without the touchscreen, for secondary purposes. Having a one plug dock connection will be awesome for my situation. Will the egpu run through a dock?

    The other great thing for me is the full size SD card slot. All of my cameras run SD and being able to just pop them right into my computer is a much needed feature. I have realized the limits of my older cheap dell in video editing. She struggles with it. It will do it but it's a LONG time doing it compared to what I have seen on newer versions.
     
  30. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Depends on dock... the newer laptop will drive 4K HDMI, and two 4k monitors through Thunderbolt. On just one 6K through Thunderbolt. But that may increase due to intel's new chip design.

    What you have on your older laptop is nothing comparedto iris Xe, and what will be released soon. Last year insider knowledge said don't by any laptops until 2021, and beyond. Stuff has changed dramatically. That's why I waited til the late release of the 5402.

    Rocket lake is going to be pretty cool for new laptops. I am happy with my Tiger Lake. Which will become the lower segment for upgradable laptops, and mid range tossers like Acer.

    I suggest waiting it out as long as you can to see a Rocket lake laptop up close and personal. I would not say this until I had my laptop go through all of what I done.

    As for egpu, there are inclosures, you can customize your setup with. It's like building a disk storage box, but instead it's a graphics hub or dock. Just search for Thunderbolt 4 egpu enclosures. Some have multiple outputs and hubs for other thunderbolt connectivity.

    The new laptops use micro SDCard slots, so you will need to invest in using SD cards with their adapter in the camera. Or obtain a multi card hub, if you run into CF, SD, and other types of memory.

    Also you can obtain m.2 storage, run raid 0 m.2 devices for background video conversion, without effecting working on edits or other work. IBM was the first to provide external backbone bus for external adapter cards for PC XT based systems, back in the early 80s. Firewire, and Thunderbolt is nothing new to that concept, just light years better.
     
  31. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    I think im going to jump on the current dell 14 2 in 1 and move my laptop now to my son who needs a more reliable device. That way I will still get my full SD card slot, new 11th gen i7, iris graphics, 2 SSD slots, USB C to run dock, eGPU and 2 of my 24" dell ultrasharps, and then have a nice portable processing package for in the field. If I wait, I am afraid they will remove some very important items for me.
     
  32. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    I truly doubt the new 2 in 1 will have all the nice features. Maybe 1 full sized m.2 slot, but in reality 2 in 1 laptops are beefed up tablets with keyboards.

    The new thin and light laptops are more laptop than tablet. Thus the few that have two m.2 ports.

    Also 2 in 1 may not have all the thunderbolt 4.0 pci channels. Look at the video specs. If it can't do 3 monitors, most likely it's crippled.

    I dunno why your bent on 2 in 1, but to each to their own.
     
  33. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    I use it....that's why.
     
  34. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    This is the model I am looking at getting in the next month or so....

    Add 64gb of ram, a larger SSD or two if it has the slot, a dock, pen, egpu and extra 24 inch ultra sharp monitor. Perfect setup for me.

    Dell Inspiron 14 5000 2-in-1 Laptop | Dell Canada
     
  35. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Back to my modded 5402... had recently updated my dual 980 Pro NVME drives with new firmware. At first Samsung servers had the wrong package, it took some time later on in the day to fully upgrade the drives. No noticable speed increases. Which I doubt I can measure any better than 8200 for the pci-e 4.0 bus. It may help people with slower or slightly not optimized setup compared to mine. I don't know, but it may resolve the delay to flush the cache, of which some have reported slow downs.
     
    custom90gt and kojack like this.
  36. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    Coming back to this for a min. not-meee. My 5406 has the same graphics as your machine, how do I make it use 8 or 16gb of ram?
     
  37. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You can't. That stuff is fixed in the BIOS, and even if it were adjustable, there's typically a hard cap of 2 GB depending on how much RAM is installed.
     
  38. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    He claimed he did something with the drivers and bios that opened up the ram to the video card.
     
  39. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    wanna check out my question above?
     
  40. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Consultant

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    Sorry for being away from this thread. I figured it was dead, plus i have been busy, also i started a thread in the HP area, with advanced modding scrap pieces parts to make a snazzy take away note book for biz work.

    I mentioned in a few posts about graphics capabilities and drivers. The BIOS has plagued me once I upgraded it in January. M$ will force a firmware update from Dell, even though M$ has no part in 3rd party hardware support. This is worse than Google! WTF!

    Now I am getting forced into automatic BIOS updates through M$. Once you update your forever locked into updates. All this is without Dell management and few Dell drivers, that are manually downloaded and installed.

    The only automated 3rd party services are from Intel and Samsung only.

    5406 is not the same as 5402. Because you have a 2 in 1, there are limitations. Its more of a tablet build than a notebook build. So power consumption will be limited by the hardware limitations to keep thermal and performance within limits. Less memory consumption by the graphics capabilities. Not sure as i did not go too far in digging in the hardware of the 5406. I believe 2 displays can be used simultaneously or a limit to only 4K resolutions. No HDMI. While the 5402 can do one 8K external display, and one hdmi 2k, with the lcd panel resolution.

    As for graphics memory allocation... since its integrated, it is done through the driver. Any thing above 16GB will have an aperture of 8GB and greater to support 4 displays, that is including the lcd panel. Its not dedicated, its shared with OS. The bios will show 2GB, but Intel GFX driver will allocate the memory directly once OS is loaded. MSinfo and Igfx manager control panel will show various memory allocations being setup for the internal graphics. The more intensive your graphical use the larger the aperture being setup, depending on available system memory. I don't consume system memory with very many TSRs. Most applications are set not to run in background.

    Note, all drivers for Intel hardware are from Intel, not Dell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  41. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    Ok, thanks for the information.
     
  42. nemt

    nemt Notebook Deity

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    Do you have benchmarks for the stock m2 NVMe drive the unit comes with? is it really that bad? I'm looking at this same model now with the 512GB drive (no additional SSD, though I'm glad to hear it has slots available) and a replacement NVMe drive is a somewhat pricey upgrade.
     
  43. kojack

    kojack Notebook Prophet

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    Speed differences in SSD will only be noticed two ways. Transfering many TB of data at once, like an 8k video file (a few seconds longer for slower NVME) and during benchmarking. You will not see a difference in speed while just using your computer for 99% of usage. I don't notice a difference in my A400 sata and NVME in most situations.
     
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