Which XPS 13 would you go for between these

Price being the same, the Skylake 9350 i7 with 16gb of ram, 512gb ssd and QHD display, or the Kaby Lake 9360 i7 with 8gb of ram, 256gb ssd and QHD display?

 

I have a 9550 with a 256GB SSD and it is quite small.

You will need to keep about 30% of that drive empty for max performance. And maybe need 50GB reserved for Windows 10-updates. That gives you about 125GB for programs, files, pictures, songs.

8GB RAM is fine for general use today but 16GB is better for "power users" and future proofing.

The KabyLake and SkyLake processors don't differ much.

But do some research on graphics / reliability improvements with the 9360

 

Considering the Kaby CPUs are only about 5% more powerful, I'd take the extra memory and drive space. In addition, if the drive is a PM951 then the 512GB one will be significantly faster.

 

The 9350.

A Kaby Lake processor is so insignificant of an upgrade, it might as well not be there. Meanwhile, a 512GB SSD is something you absolutely will notice.

 

I'd consider the Kaby Lake one only if you're invested in the idea of using this machine for gaming, and even then might lean towards the Sky Lake one. On that noe: Do they both come with the Intel HD, or does either come with the Iris?
If gaming isn't a major concern (which it honestly shouldn't with this machine), this is a nobrainer, take the Sky Lake one.

 

How stable are the 9360 drivers/firmware compared to the 9350? How long did the 9350 drivers/firmware take to become reasonably stable?

 

This is just a CPU upgrade - everything else remains largely the same - even firmware.

 

For additional storage, I expanded the storage of my 256GB 9350 with a 128GB microSD card in fully-flush SD adapter and a 128GB mini USB 3.0 flash drive. Not as fast as the SSD so I put the stuff on these that doesn't change much (music, photos, etc.)

 

I have all 3 of the current generation XPS13 models. I haven't functionally been able to distinguish Kaby vs Skylake like I can between Broadwell vs Skylake. In my opinion a refurbed/lightly used 9350 is one of the best values out right now.

I personally wouldn't get too hung up on SSD capacity - it's a pretty easy upgrade with a $10 screwdriver set and some dexterity, and the aftermarket options are much cheaper than what Dell OEM provides.

The 9360 is still fairly new - Dell is releasing updates fairly regularly and will be for another few months. The biggest patches to date have been to improve the stability of the Killer wireless module, and a BIOS/Audio driver update to improve battery life (which I can vouch for - I'm seeing an extra 60-90 minutes).

 

You can always upgrade later. That's what I am doing with my 2 dells. Putting in 1tb SSD and 16gb ram.

 

Thanks for all of the input.

Chris, Are your Skylake and Kaby Lake XPS 13's the same configuration? If they are, can you tell me approximately the difference in battery life you're seeing between them? Thanks.

 

Make sure you can upgrade the RAM in the 9360 (XPS13)...it was not upgradable in the previous generation.

 

Remember confusing economics of selling used SSD (I suppose it is a few dollars in your pocket although a lot less than you "paid". But buying the larger drive in the open market will cost less than buying from Dell...)

 

Do you notice any difference between the wireless performance of the 9350 vs the 9360?

 

All three are Core i5 with 256GB SSD. I bought the 9343 and 9350 with the UHD touchscreen, the 9360 with the non-touch HD screen. I swapped the screens on the 9360 and 9343 so I effectively have an identical 9350 and 9360 other than the processor and wireless module (I didn't pay attention to the SSD branding when I had the 9360 open).

9343 before the screenswap was yielding ~8 hours on a charge
9350 yields ~10 hours
9360 after screenswap yields ~10 hours
9360 after screepswap and BIOS/driver update ~12 hours

All using a slightly modified 'Dell' profile with display at 30% (adaptive brightness on when available)

Slightly better range, better signal quality, higher throughput speeds with the Killer. I had stability issues with the Killer software on the factory image but there was an update released the day I received the laptop.

I've heard the 9360 uses a different antenna configuration within the display - if that's the case I would expect to see some difference in my 9343 which now has the 9360 display. I honestly can't tell a difference if there is one.

The wireless card and battery life improvement (post BIOS change) are the biggest differences I've noticed between the 9350 and 9360.

 

I am not 100% on the xps models. I know some are, I only have the inspiron 13 5000. and inspiron 11 3000. I know both can be upgraded with new SSD and Ram. As far as I know from reading the new xps models are upgradeable.

 

RAM is soldered to the motherboard for both the 9350 and 9360.

 

As well as 9343

 

you cannot upgrade the ram on the 13 inch models, unfortunately. only the 15 inch models. so whatever ram you configure your 13 inch xps is what you'll have

 

It's been so instructive to read this thread as I consider upgrading to a newer ultraportable/convertible. But I find myself on the verge of a decision to purchase one or another of the recent XPS13 variants, I am once-again reluctant because of my perception (based largely on statistically significantly aggregate owner ratings) of way below average owner satisfaction - see below - that this is a masterpiece of design that often a very unpleasant model to own. What say you, experienced, apparent devotees of this celebrated model?

What has caused me to pause with my finger over the "Purchase" button on several XPS 13 versions now, and over the past 2 years (new, used, 1080p, QHD, etc) has been the rather poor owner experience reports on sites like Amazon, which while never a perfect reflection of model reliability, is the single best repository of a large number of owner surveys about a given model. While there are variations by configuration and model year, there is no version, with 100s and 100s of reviews compiled, which doesn't show 30-40% of owners rating the computer between 1 and 3 stars, with dissatisfaction reasons ranging from noise (what was that cpu whine called?) to wifi to general build, hardware and driver issues. With certain design limitations excepted (eg, the location of the webcam), I consider this a masterpiece of design, as do the great majority of professional reviewers. But actual owners place it as one of the least desirable models in its class to own, due to what amounts to QC problems, perhaps some design flaws, and still heavily panned Dell customer support reviews (it wasn't always that way, but it's been almost a decade now...) By reading the content of many of the reviews I am inclined to glean that, for the 60-70% of owners that get "good ones," this is a joy to own. But those numbers are far too daunting to a person who no longer has the time or patience I once did to go through multiple replacements, hours on the phone with (bad) customer support, hours downloading new drivers, uninstalling, re-installing, etc. There are competitive models that have 80% - 85% 4-5 star ratings (again, with near or over-1,000 aggregated reviews) and I really prefer those odds since the field has plenty of very good-to-excellent designs, even if this Dell is the sexiest.

Thanks for any inputs you may have. Am I too focused on statistics?

 

There is a lot of bias in those statistics. Happy customers might not bother rating or ranting. This site is filled principally with people trying to solve problems. I don't trust ratings on Amazon to be independent or correct.

Also, Dell released a bunch of XPS laptops that were absolutely in beta and not ready for public use. Most of the issues were resolved by BIOS and driver updates but it took over a year for Dell to sort the major bugs (e.g. Dec 2016 4k flicker for 9550 largely fixed). So a lot of the early complaints are resolved and not relevant.

Still the XPS laptops are nice but not perfect. So drop the stats and read through the forums to understand what current issues exist that might bother you. The 9350 and 9360 are very similar, so you can think that a lot of market beta testing has been done over the past 1.5 years...

 

Thank you so much, @pressing for your thoughtful and informative response. You absolutely filled in the gaps between not just what I read in Amazon and other owner reviews, but much of what I've read in forums over the past 2 years. I personally think it's unfortunate that none of the tech media who do the reviews gather any insight over the question of product reliability, particularly as they heap more praise over each successive product update, providing the impression that Dell has just been making a great laptop better, when the more accurate reporting would review the design, performance and configuration enhancements with each successive model while mentioning whether irl there remained bugs in the product and specifically reporting which of them have been resolved and which remained, much in the manner you just have.

If you would indulge me, I want to comment about your view of the value of looking at owner satisfaction reports, a subject I have given a good bit of thought to over the years though forums like this one (proud member since 2009!) have always been a mainstay for me, particularly when the product I own is giving me issues. While it's true that the reports of owners on vendor sites like Amazon and Best Buy may not be individually very informative and reliable, I think it's fair to say that such reviews taken in aggregates of 100s, and with easy comparisons from year to year, are consistent among major brands and their most popular models. Thus, if more people tend to post owner reviews when they are unhappy, there is no reason to expect one product's collection of hundreds of owner reviews to be any more or less biased than a similar compilation of owner reviews for a competing product. In my view there is some meaningful information conveyed when hypothetical product A's collective reviews comprise 80% 4/5 star evaluations vs product B's showing only 60% 4/5 star evaluations. It's far from the whole story, but if one is vacillating between the two, and both meet one's overall criteria, there might be a solid case for choosing product A. Moreover, as many of the vendor sites do a decent job of aggregating major negatives of a given product as cited in owner reviews, one might glean from these data what are the most common achilles heels of each given product, aiding one's ability to reject the model which, though equally appealing on it's face, contains a substantially larger proportion of complaints about features or characteristics that are most important to any prospective buyer. I guess I see it like the repair records of cars on Consumer Reports; I would never make a decision to purchase a car solely on the basis of those data, but neither would I buy one without having reviewed their gargantuan database of owner experiences and taken it into account.

Nothing I've said here is meant to contradict in any way your enormously responsive and useful comments on the subject. Thanks again. Jeff

 

Thanks Jeff.

Lots of review magazines and web sites have conflicts of interest with advertisers. Profound reviews over a long time-frame are expensive and complex to execute, particularly for technology products. But there are a few places that stand out. For example:

A. The NBR forums have lots of great info and plenty of helpful people as well. I don't see many paid shills here

B. Look at these brutal Dell XPS professional reviews for entertainment and to learn a bit:

" High-end without high-end performance"

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-X...HD-InfinityEdge-Notebook-Review.156462.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-2016-9550-InfinityEdge-Notebook-Review.156354.0.html
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Regarding the quality of current internet reviews in general, I think about books as a fun example.

When Amazon was emerging, I remember how exciting it was to have such a huge virtual bookstore with massive discounts. Readers spent a lot of time crafting thoughtful book reviews. It was abundantly obvious lots of these reviewers were not shills.

Now that Amazon has killed virtually all the local bookstores (and big box bookstores), the book culture is slowly dying. On top of that, with no real competition, Amazon has taken the opportunity to increase prices.

As the novety of writing long book reviews for free on Amazon has worn off, readers probably spend a lot more time on social media sites commenting.

As Amazon's sales (and margins) have gotted so big, incentives for high review scores have risen. Sellers and competitors have gotten really good at fake reviews. And those recent "Vine" reviews of course are just paid shills which have no work if they don't issue glowing reviews. Certainly Amazon has an interest in having as many products with high ratings as possible; that will boost sales. So the ratings system has some biases that are difficult to remove.

But to your point there is some value in ratings. For laptops, I think you can do a lot better research by reading a few reviews then digging deep into forums. The lousy laptops and subpar components have a tough time hiding here. Then once you have your hands around a few products can ask for opinions on a good forum. I like Reddit a lot but I find a lot more experts here at NBR.

In closing, these examples may look trite and trivial. But I spent years running statistics at a well known university. In stats, the most basic definitions are fiendishly difficult to nail down. The real math gets tough fast. But I found the best statisticians and most credible analysis centered on logical, well researched storylines....