Watt consumption 1640

i need a tool to measure my systems current watt consumption. according to some people even 1640 systems are in some cases affected by power throttling... so i would like to see how close it gets to the 90 watt maximum ...

shukran in advance

 

If you don't mind running on battery, there are plenty of tools that can tap into your battery's charge/discharge circuitry. Personally I just use RMClock. If you absolutely need to be attached to an outlet, your best bet is a physical watt meter like the Kill-A-Watt.

 

If you want to identify throttling directly you can use throttlestop in this thread here, under verify you have a problem. Its not just a anti-throttling program, it also displays the data on screen so you can easily identify throttling.

Its for C2D's as well and should work. If you dont enable the anti-throttling features it can monitor for drops in multipliers and/or clock modulation etc.

 

thx guys for ur quick answers, by using furmark and prime i found out that even my 1640 with p8600 has severe throttling issues causing the processor to go as low as 3 in the multi field... damn what an annoyance

 

Is that true ? P8600 has throttling issues?

 

When I had mine (still not back from accidental repair) I did a test of running orthos and furmark at the same time, ran it for like an hour and according to RMclock my processor was still runnning at full 2.4ghz and the graphics were fine too. The temperatures were about 80 on the processor and 75 on the graphics though (nothing too alarming) but the south bridge was at 95!

 

sheikhstone: Can you post a screen shot of ThrottleStop while testing so I can explain to you what it is saying.

If it is showing a multiplier of 3 in the monitoring panel, that means that your CPU is using a multiplier of 6 but SLFM (super low frequency mode) is also being used so your effective multiplier is equivalent to only 3.

SLFM takes the typical bus frequency and drops it in half internally from 266 MHz to 133 MHz. Software can have a problem properly detecting this since externally the CPU bus still seems to be running at 266 MHz.

When you see this:
266 X 3.0 ~ 800 MHz

Internally your computer is actually at:
133 X 6.0 ~ 800 MHz

When more users start testing with ThrottleStop, I think there is going to be a long, long list of laptops that have throttling issues.

A Kill-a-Watt meter or similar is the best way to keep an eye on power consumption when testing. What GPU does your 1640 use. The ATI 4000 series are power hungry when pushed hard.

 

hey, thanks for ur comprehensive explanation ;D

i have a 1640 with p8600, 4GB DDR3, 500GB @7200 a HD4670 and a RGBLED screen...

sorry for being stupid, but how can i upload a screenshot here?

 

Printscreen and paste it in Paint or any similar program. Save it then upload here.

 

I like uploading stuff to www.imageshack.us

Just post the link that they give you.

Edit: Printscreen means if you push the PrintScreen button on your keyboard, it will put a copy of anything on your screen into the Clipboard so when you open up another program, you can Paste that image or snap shot of your screen in there.

If you only want to take a snapshot of what you're working on then hold down the ALT key while you push the PrintScreen button. If ThrottleStop is highlighted when you do this then only it will be included in your snap shot.

 

thanks for explaining, i uploaded the screenshots to imageshack: http://img512.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=stresstestmaxbrightness.jpg

the screenshot where the processor is at level 9 was taken when the screen brightness was at its minimum. power setting was at max performance at all times btw. the other two screenshots show severe throttling that i experience whenever i set the screen brightness to its maximum.
i think now at this point its pretty clear that the 90 watt power supply is not suitable even for the 1640 series with P cpus, 4670 and RGBLED...

is DELL trying to publicly fool customers here? what an insult...

 

The next question is does it throttle when playing normal games?

Have throttlestop log in the background while you play games, as described in the 1645 post, just enable the logging checkbox and then run the game and play like normal. It will generate a "throttlestop.log" file with the infor. Post up the log when ya get it.

 

Another user on the Dell forum was gaming with his XPS 1640 - P8600 / ATI 3670 and was experiencing severe throttling down to 800 MHz just like you are seeing.

The 90 watt adapters are proving useful as door stops and little else. They are not adequate to power a large number of laptops that Dell has sold and continues to sell.

If you buy a 130 watt adapter and a Kill-a-Watt meter to keep an eye on things, you should be able to use ThrottleStop to maximize your performance. Most of the feedback has been from Core i7 users so far but ThrottleStop should be able to help you out. Here's ThrottleStop 1.89

 

I also have a Studio XPS 1640 (specs are in signature) and using ThrottleStop 1.89, furmark and prime95 produces the same results as sheikhstone.

The Multiplier would change from 6, to 7, to 8, then back down to 3 when all furmark and prime95 were used. From the other thread, if only a CPU intensive or a GPU intensive program is used, the multiplier would jump to about normal... for me would be 10.50.

This would explain some drop FPS in some games that I'm playing (COD:MW2, CS:S).

From the solution, just purchase a 130w adapter and use ThrottleStop to get maximum performance.

Am I correct?

 

thanks very much for your feedback, and a very special thanks to uncleweb for the throttlestop tool!!!

what wud be the cheapest way to get an original Dell 130 Watt power supply? 130€ for a cheapass power supply is nothing short of a barefaced impudence...

my system is 4 months old and was bought via www.dell.at, do you think that if i complain to dell that they wud actually replace my laptop or give me a stronger power supply? the way the system performs now is almost equal to fraud to the customer since it cannot be used to its full potential.

 

oh and btw, i just plugged my power supply into a watt o meter and when i perform the furmark, prime and full brightness combination, the 90 watt supply draws actually 101 watts. when i activate throttlestop and lock the cpu to level 9.5(max) it draws 105 watts!!!
I definitely need the 130 watt power supply...
i also measured the consumption of furmark and prime with lowest display brightness and i had something like 93 watts...

 

I've actually just ordered a 150w PA-15 Dell AC adapter from Amazon.com. It is brand new, and costs me a little over $40 here in the US.

I'll do a more intensive mark with pictures and throttlemark.log logs tonight when I get home.

 

Keep in mind that an adapter that is rated at 90 watts is designed to deliver 90 watts to your computer. They are somewhere around 90% efficient at full load so a 100 watt draw from the wall is equivalent to the adapter delivering 90 watts to your computer.

You might be able to get by with a 90 watt adapter in normal use but it doesn't give you anything extra to charge your battery when you are using your computer.

A T9600 has a default multiplier of 10.5 and if you have C3/C6 enabled in the bios then when lightly loaded, one core can go to sleep while the other core can use a 11.0 multiplier if everything is set up correctly.

With background tasks kicking in, you usually end up with an average somewhere between 10.5 and 11.0.

tyh: I haven't had much feedback yet from Core 2 owners with this problem but I'm pretty sure that a 130 watt adapter combined with ThrottleStop will fix things for you. Post or send me a log file when gaming. Dell still doesn't see this as a problem that affects people in normal use. I think you would disagree with that.

 

I'm getting my 150w PA-15 Dell adapter on Friday, from which then I'll put up an intensive review of the throttling in the 1640.

I'll also be getting my Kill a Watt meter at that time also, so I can't wait.

 

I'm looking forward to your testing tyh. It will be great to get some more data on this problem from users with Core 2 laptops. Hopefully a 150 watt adapter combined with ThrottleStop if necessary will give you the kind of performance that Intel intended.

Intel are the ones that should be complaining the loudest. Dell's excessive throttling schemes are making Intel's great CPUs look bad.

If you get bored waiting for your new adapter, can you post a ThrottleStop pic showing Intel Dynamic Acceleration mode in action? Just enable C3/C6 in the bios and run a single threaded benchmark like SuperPI mod and see how high the multiplier goes. I just want to make sure this is working correctly. Take a screen shot about half way through a 1M test.

 

I am new to the forum but also own an xps 1640 with p8600 and the 4670.

When i run prime95 and furmark at the same time the multiplier drops from 9 to 3 inside the throttlestop log. If i try using the laptop again with those benchmarks but this time with throttlestop locked on at a multiplier of 9 the laptop lasts about 2 seconds then crashes, presumable because the stock 90w supply runs out of juice. Anyone one have any settings they can get the machine to be stable at? Throttleing is not as bad when i turn the brightness right down but still happens.

I called dell tech support, (had to anyway since my dvd drive is playing up) and when talking about this issue got escalated 3 times. The guy i spoke to then told me that this is a known issue and that they are releasing a bios update in a few weeks that will fix it. I asked if he knew how, but he didn't.

I think i read something on a forum saying that the update enables the machine to run closer to the 90w limit when throttled. So how this is actually a fix is beyond me, the laptop needs more power to run at max speed so a better throttling algorithm is great, but not a fix!

I mentioned this to the tech guy and he stated that they have tried to use the 130w supply with these models and that they burn the cpu out after a few weeks. I dont see how this is the case since the cpu can run at higher power than it currently is, thats why its getting capped. Unless he was referring to the rest of they system not coping, i.e cooling or even voltage regs over heating and dieing.

So i am very interested in your results tyh!! Let us know how you go. Tech support basically said, hold tight for 2 more weeks then it will be ok. No mention of the first 3 months i have had with a hamstrung laptop!! Its like selling that 6 cylinder car that can shut its cylinders down to save fuel, except the dell version would be when going up hill decides it too hard so turns off 4 cylinders instead of using all 6!

On another note i read some stuff about undervolting. Anyway tried this with this laptop to see if it helps draw less power enough that throttling goes away?

 

I have not noticed any throttling issues. This has peaked my interest though. I can play WoW and raid for hours with no issues. I'm going to load up Left 4 Dead 2 right now and play it for a couple hours. Was going to on the desktop. but now I'm going to try on the laptop instead and see what happens.

 

Well after an hour and a half of L4D 2 at max everything at max resolution I had no issues. I'll try a few more games and see how it goes.

 

make sure your logging the multipliers.. or are you?

When the multipliers drop on the 1645, there is reduced fps. No real stuttering or anything. So if your throttling you may not notice, since it plays fine at 50fps then 60fps.. if that makes sense. With a game like l4d2 should always be at max cpu multipliers.

throttlestop is very good at monitoring for multiplier/clock modulation type throttling. Just dont enable the ant-throttling features, and enable the logging checkmark. And it will log to a text file.

 

I ran Dragon Age Origins maxed, Shattered Horizon (extremely demanding DX10 only game by Future Mark, Star Trek Online, Unreal T 3, all fine.

AvP, ME 2, Far Cry 2, Red Faction Guerrilla are also on my list to get soon. I don't use the laptop to game as a first priority as I've got my desktop. But I bought the laptop to eat what I'd throw at it at max or reasonable for a couple years for when I'm in the hospital, etc and can't use the desktop.

I did play LFD2 for about 5 hours last night with no issues though it did get hot. Also about 40 hours of Star Trek Online with no issues. As goes for about 30 hours worth of WoW raiding.

I think the biggest test will be when I toss Far Cry 2 and AvP on it, though Shattered Horizon maxed will cripple most machines just as Crysis will.

 

Its very important to monitor the multipliers your cpu is running at to verify not throttling is taking place, while gaming that is.

but yeah that is quiet a list to be testing and good you dont seem to be affected. I dont know much about the mobile C2D or the power consumption yours currently draws, but that may be another factor as well.

 

Yeah the P series Core 2 Duo is the "medium power" mobile processors. I believe it's 25watts max. I do know the P series is very effitiant. I also have the 1920x1080 WLED display not the RGBLED, so that probably takes a bit less power as well.

I got this in late September, just before the Core i7 stuff came out in laptops. With all the reading I've done on them with people having so many issues with heat and power I'm very happy I did not go that route.

For gaming, office/web/streaming, I would never notice any difference anyhow. I've got the high end desktop (I build computers) for music/video editing. I will say though this laptop with the 4670 card in it does include ATI Stream for GPU computing and it eats the Adobe Master collection with no issues at all. Same goes with transcoding. With the GPU computing stuff already out with much more on the way with OpenCL, DirectCompute, processors like i7 won't be needed much if at all for this type of stuff.

 

The watt rating usually seen is the TDP. That is how much heat the CPU puts out. Actual power draw in watts can be much higher. Think i saw in one of these throttling thread the i7 can draw 100w on its own.

 

That is the i7, TOTALLY different. They can't even be compared. Their foundation is completely and utterly different than the Core 2 series. Max TDP = 25w is Intel's spec of the P8600.

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=35568

Here is a link to the i7- 720q - as you can see the Max TDP is almost double that of the P8600. at 45w. Which is why I am not surprised in the least that the i7 XPS laptops being sold with a 90watt adapter is not adiquat. But I think it's definitely sufficient for the XPS 1640 - especially with out the RGBLED.

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43122&processor=i7-720QM&spec-codes=SLBLY

Even desktop wise the i7 920 is almost double the wattage of my OC'd Q6600.