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    Samsung 830 vs Crucial M4 SSD

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by thejamesjr, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    I have a Dell XPS M1530. Which SSD would you recommend I buy?

    Samsung 830 256GB or Crucial M4 256GB
     
    thejamesjr, Mar 31, 2012
    #1
  2. baii

    baii Sone

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    Cheaper one. If money not a factor, Samsung.
     
    baii, Mar 31, 2012
    #2
  3. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    Amazon has Crucial for $289 and samsung for $367.
    From what I've been hearing, the read and writes on the Samsung are slightly better, but not much to really notice.
     
    thejamesjr, Mar 31, 2012
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  4. Kaso

    Kaso Notebook Virtuoso

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    ^^^ You've answered your own question. Get the Crucial (I'm happy with the five drives bought at different times for different laptop/desktop upgrades).
     
    Kaso, Mar 31, 2012
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  5. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    Yeah, I think so too.

    I've Just been hesitant because of all the good things I keep hearing about the Samsung 830. Read and writes are faster, they use they're own controllers, Magician software toolbox, slimmer design to fit in both ultra books and laptops, comes w/ Norton Ghost. Only negative seems to be the price.
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 1, 2012
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  6. Sam_A_1992

    Sam_A_1992 Notebook Evangelist

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    Im running an m4 and have nothing bad to say about it, fantastic drive ;)
     
    Sam_A_1992, Apr 1, 2012
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  7. Thors.Hammer

    Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thors.Hammer, Apr 1, 2012
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  8. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    thejamesjr, Apr 1, 2012
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  9. baii

    baii Sone

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    for laptop you dont need kit (unless you need a data cable or w.e) .
    bare drive aka OEM is 10/20 cheaper than the 1 with kit.
     
    baii, Apr 1, 2012
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  10. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    Laptop kit includes: Samsung SSD Magician software and manual CD, Norton Ghost 15.0 software CD, quick user manual, drive spacer, and SATA-to-USB adapter cable.

    Basic non-kit includes: Samsung SSD Magician software and manual CD, and documentation.

    I don't need Norton Ghost or the data cable, but wouldn't I need the drive spacer? Because it's only 7mm without the spacer and 9.5mm with it.
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 1, 2012
    #10
  11. baii

    baii Sone

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    Not sure if the 830 have screw hole or not,if it does and your laptop have hdd caddy, it will be fine.
    If missing either, well clear tape or scotch tape work. Or you can spend the little bit extra.
     
    baii, Apr 2, 2012
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  12. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    I went ahead and purchased the Samsung 830 256GB w/ laptop kit today.

    The difference maker for me over the Crucial M4 is the software. Management tool includes, manual TRIM and Garbage Collection execution, OS optimizations, Secure Erase, FW update and more.

    I don't fully understand why, but from my understanding is that SSD's aren't capable of security encryption and secure drive erasers. Does this mean I won't be able to use Windows 7 BitLocker?
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 2, 2012
    #12
  13. Thors.Hammer

    Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast

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    No, it doesn't mean that. You can use BitLocker volume encryption.
     
    Thors.Hammer, Apr 2, 2012
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  14. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    Really? I saw quite a few posts from people complaining that drive encryption on SSD's slow the drive down tremendously. Also that drive erasers such as DBAN will not work on most SSD's.

    I'm gonna do a clean install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit when I get the drive. Is there anything I need to manually setup in BIOS or Windows? Such as, does TRIM auto enable and will Defrag auto disable?
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 2, 2012
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  15. madmattd

    madmattd Notebook Deity

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    Sometimes is the answer to both cases. Best to install Windows (make sure to do this with the HDD controller in AHCI mode - in BIOS), then run Windows Experience Index (you can install drivers first if you like). This will kick TRIM on in 99% of cases. Sometimes it will properly turn off defrag, but this is hit-or-miss in my experience. Just turn it off in the control panel. You can double-check if TRIM is enabled by doing this in an elevated command prompt (right-click, run as admin!):

    If the result is '0' TRIM is enabled.
     
    madmattd, Apr 2, 2012
    #15
  16. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    Okay, I will do that. Thanks for the advice.
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 2, 2012
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  17. Thors.Hammer

    Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast

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    I was referring ONLY to BitLocker.

    You should take some measurements before turning on Bitlocker. Then turn it on for a large volume on the Samsung SSD. Run the same measurements and then report back the amount of overhead you see.

    Have any of those complaints you see reported that? Did they do a good job of testing the Series 830?
     
    Thors.Hammer, Apr 2, 2012
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  18. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    In all honesty, I'm not even sure if I will encrypt my SSD. I just became curious more then anything because I noticed a few people on forums saying it will slow the drive down.

    On Crucial's forum, one person asked about encrypting his entire SSD and someone replied confirming it will slow the drive down. I'm not sure which encryption software they were referring to though, might have been TrueCrypt. I also think there was someone on Amazon.com, saying the same thing about the Samsung 830.

    I was also surprised to see people saying you cannot securely erase SSD's with DBAN, Eraser, or other drive wiping software. I typically like to do this when rebuilding/re-installing my OS. This is one of the reasons I decided on the Samsung 830 over Crucial M4, because of the software which has a Drive Wipe feature.
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 3, 2012
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  19. mpalandr

    mpalandr Notebook Consultant

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    I've used Diskpart to wipe my SSD before a clean install. The Diskpart docs say this about the "clean all" option:

    "Specifies that each and every sector on the disk is zeroed, which completely deletes all data contained on the disk."


    From my setup notes:

    Clean the SSD
    Boot from USB and run DISKPART in WinPE.
    List disk (to make sure the SSD is really disk 0)
    Diskpart > Select Disk 0
    Diskpart > Clean ALL
    Diskpart > Create Partition Primary Align=1024
    Diskpart > Format Quick FS=NTFS
    Diskpart > List Partition
    Diskpart > Active
    Diskpart > Exit
     
    mpalandr, Apr 3, 2012
    #19
  20. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    Does anyone know if Intel Matrix Storage Manager (currently known as Intel Rapid Storage Manager) works with or needs to be installed for the Samsung 830 SSD?

    I'm re-installing my Windows, drivers and originally had this installed with my HHD for SATA AHCI mode. I had someone tell me to use the Windows 7 driver for AHCI. Someone else told me to Install the Intel Rapid Storage drivers and another person told me SSD's should not run in AHCI. Now I am a bit confused.
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 8, 2012
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  21. Sam_A_1992

    Sam_A_1992 Notebook Evangelist

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    Anyone know what the best image cloning software is for free? as i want to make a backup image of my current setup. Is it possible to image 2 drives at once? as my users folder is on my hdd.
     
    Sam_A_1992, Apr 8, 2012
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  22. rockyrobin

    rockyrobin Notebook Enthusiast

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    You could try Parted Magic- Parted Magic

    It has Clonezilla and Ghost4Linux which should allow you to do what you want to do.

    I've just used it to image my L501x over to my new SSD and had no problems FWIW.
     
    rockyrobin, Apr 8, 2012
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  23. madmattd

    madmattd Notebook Deity

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    If someone told you not to run the SSD in AHCI mode (but instead IDE?) they didn't know what they are talking about. SSD perform terribly in IDE mode, AHCI or RAID is the way to go.

    Installing the Intel RST drivers has no bearing on if you are actually in AHCI or IDE btw, that's set in the BIOS.

    Sometimes you get better performance with the Intel vs Windows AHCI driver. YMMV. FWIW, I just install the Intel RST on my systems and let it go.
     
    madmattd, Apr 8, 2012
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  24. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    I've always had Intel RST (never tried Windows AHCI driver) installed, running with my old HDD and just wanted to make sure it's okay to install with an SSD. Thanks for the info.

    On a completely different subject, my old HDD is beginning to fail.

    Each and every time I run dskchk, it finds new bad sectors and repairs them.

    When I run DBAN, it goes for about 12 hours. During that period there were over 100 verify errors. It completes with the following message: "DBAN finished with non-fatal errors. Check the log for more information. *fail ATA Disk SAMSUNG (w/ model #)."

    What does this mean exactly? Should I just throw the HDD out and be done with it?

    In BIOS "HDD Acoustic Mode", Should I change my settings to "Performance" or leave it at "Bypass"?
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 8, 2012
    #24
  25. Jubeltrubel

    Jubeltrubel Notebook Guru

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    What we all should consider is, that the XPS 1530 does not have the benefits from Sata 3, the "old" XPS 1530 only got Sata2, so a Max of ~250MB/s is the peak you can get, so performance wise any of these SSDs should do the job well enough. However there are two factors that you might think of. One is Money. Get the cheaper one. The other factor is power consumption. The M4 consumes less power in idle and under load(however i only red tests with Sata 3...).
    I would choose a SSD like the M4 for your laptop.

    IF your gonne buy a new Laptop within a year or a half you can go with the Samsung 830.

    Jubeltrubel
     
    Jubeltrubel, Apr 10, 2012
    #25
  26. thejamesjr

    thejamesjr Notebook Geek

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    I'm aware of this and do plan on buying a new laptop within the next year. I also only paid $10 more for the Samsung over Crucial, to me it was worth it.
     
    thejamesjr, Apr 10, 2012
    #26
  27. rockyrobin

    rockyrobin Notebook Enthusiast

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    FWIW the power consumption figures pulled from storagereview are:

    Crucial M4 256GB- 2.93w (Constant sequential write activity), 1.55w (Constant sequential read activity), 0.84w (Constant random 4k read activity), 0.60w (Idle).

    Samsung 830 256GB- 3.47w (Constant sequential write activity), 1.77w (Constant sequential read activity), 1.02w (Constant random 4k read activity), 0.31w (Idle).

    Data sources-
    Crucial m4 SSD Review (256GB) | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews
    Samsung SSD 830 Review (256GB) | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews
     
    rockyrobin, Apr 10, 2012
    #27
  28. echoblack

    echoblack Notebook Consultant

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    Software Full Disk Encryption

    Wear: Should have no effect on MLC life.. really this is nothing you should be considered about anyway. It would take years of constant writing to actually wear out any chips beyond reserved amount.

    Slow Down: Would probably really slow down SandForce SSD's that use Compression. I would assume that encrypted data is not vary compressible. I could be wrong, maybe it is super compressible. I just figure it is mostly random, so it can not be compressed. However, nether the M4 nor the Samsung use compression.

    TRIM: I know for a fact that Linux dm-crypt/LUKS DOSE support TRIM with file-systems that have it like ext4 and btrfs.

    CPU Bottleneck: The slow down some may see is probably do to the encryption software or CPU. If your CPU has the new AES-NI and the encryption software your using makes use of it correctly there should be no bottleneck from ether, provided you are using AES. With dm-crypt on Linux, which correctly uses AES-NI, it can push 570MB/s through AES 256. Without AES-NI a fast CPU will only do like 100MB/s (and use loads of CPU time) which is well below the speed of the SSD.

    Full Disk Software Encryption Conclusion: No problem at all, as long as your CPU and software support AES-NI. and you ether enable TRIM (In dm-crypt off by default because it leaks some minor info i.e. file-system type), or just leave like 10-15GB unpartitioned and leave TRIM off.


    More Power Consumption Tests
    Show that the Samsung is a power hog compared to the M4. This is a big deal for me because I need max battery life.

    Crucial M4 256GB
    techreport Idle-0.7W, During IOMeter-1.5W
    AnandTech Idle-0.66W, Seq Write-3.01W, Ran Write-3.32W,

    Samsung 830
    techreport 256GB Idle-1.0W, During IOMeter-4.8W
    AnandTech 512GB Idle-1.22W, Seq Write-5.12W, Ran Write-5.8W

    dm-crypt
    Intel AES-NI dmcrypt benchmark with i7-620M on Debian Squeeze

    Power
    Samsung's 830 Series solid-state drive - The Tech Report - Page 11
    AnandTech - The Samsung SSD 830 Review
     
    echoblack, Jun 25, 2012
    #28
  29. muktimahat

    muktimahat Newbie

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    Im also deciding between these drives. Thx for posting all the info :)
     
    muktimahat, Jun 27, 2012
    #29