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    I have an XPS 15 9550 working with a Razer Core. AMA

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by Eason, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    AMA = ask me anything :)
     
    Eason, Jun 27, 2016
    #1
  2. Galm

    Galm "Stand By, We're Analyzing The Situation!"

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    I've heard of other people having it kind of working. Did you just plug and play or do anything? The people who tried it on the XPS would have it working but it would stutter a ton and crash every few minutes.
     
    Galm, Jun 27, 2016
    #2
  3. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    It took me 3 days of trial and error. Now it works smoothly.

    First I had to update the TB drivers and firmware. Had trouble getting Synapse updated properly.

    Had trouble with Windows 10 rolling back to the wrong drivers for the 960M. Had to delete the cache in system32/driverstore of all nv___ files. Once I was running the most current drivers, it was working well enough to detect the core/card long enough to install the desktop drivers.

    Then it was working but not consistently and with poor performance- the missing key is to install the razer blade 14 (2016) intel drivers from Razer's website. Those are the only intel drivers I've found so far that work properly. The other ones work to varying degrees less.

    Now I'm getting 9100 on firestrike on external monitor with the 970 in the core (i7/16gb in the XPS)
     
    Eason, Jun 27, 2016
    #3
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  4. dansi

    dansi Notebook Consultant

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    Which XPS15 drivers and bios you on for TB?
    My latest 1.2 bios seems to have disconnecting issues with Dell USB hub. :(

    Is Core have disconnecting issues now? Or work as perfectly as perfect?

    Does we need to reboot XPS15 if connect/disconnect the core?

    TY!
     
    dansi, Jun 27, 2016
    #4
  5. joseph_lin

    joseph_lin Notebook Consultant

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    can you give us detailed steps? Thanks a lot!
     
    joseph_lin, Jun 27, 2016
    #5
  6. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    It seems stable with the 1.2 bios once it's awake. Sleep seems ok; The exception is waking up from hibernation- that seems to cause problems because it reenables the 960m. That's got to be disabled or you get bsods/performance issues when connecting the core.

    The core is not a very good usb hub, unfortunately. You can only run an external monitor while the gpu is in use, there is no audio out. You can't charge the xps 15 at all with it- it won't deliver any power.
     
    Eason, Jun 27, 2016
    #6
  7. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Steps:
    edit: I recommend Dell BIOS 1.1.19 as it has a more reliable TB3 connection. On 1.2.0 I was getting lots of BSOD's due to disconnects.

    1. update TB3 controller driver
    2. update tb3 firmware
    3. install intel graphics driver (4364) through the device manager. You can get this from razer's support and drivers website.
    4. install latest nvidia drivers (mobile)
    5. install razer synapse
    6. open synapse, update
    7. attach razer core - it will need to update again as well as you giving permission to the TB3 software
    8. disable 960m in device manager
    9. install nvidia desktop drivers
    9. reboot
    10. Go to the device manager. enable the gpu in the core
    11. go to the device manager any time you want to change GPU. it is not reliable to use the switcher app as it sometimes fails to disable the old GPU leading to BSODs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
    Eason, Jun 27, 2016
    #7
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  8. madaimer

    madaimer Notebook Enthusiast

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    Is there a link to download the older BIOS?
     
    madaimer, Jun 28, 2016
    #8
  9. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Eason, Jun 28, 2016
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  10. madaimer

    madaimer Notebook Enthusiast

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    madaimer, Jun 28, 2016
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  11. Punchdrunk

    Punchdrunk Notebook Consultant

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    How are the thermals when gaming using the Core? significantly lower presumably?
    Do you also notice less noise from the fans?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
    Punchdrunk, Jun 29, 2016
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  12. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    CPU goes up to 59C or so. It's quieter as well.


    edit just played 2 hours of doom. Max temp 54C. The core is significantly louder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
    Eason, Jun 29, 2016
    #12
  13. Punchdrunk

    Punchdrunk Notebook Consultant

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    do you mean the Core is louder than the laptop was when gaming without the Core attached?
     
    Punchdrunk, Jun 29, 2016
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  14. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yeah roughly. The core makes a lower-pitched noise so it's less noticeable, where as the XPS 15 has a high-pitched fans (which I'm sure you're familiar with)
     
    Eason, Jun 29, 2016
    #14
  15. joseph_lin

    joseph_lin Notebook Consultant

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    Does it worth it in your opinion? I saw HP is selling 6700 CPU with 980Ti for $1,000. I wonder how much you spent on your setup?
     
    joseph_lin, Jun 29, 2016
    #15
  16. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    700 for core, 400 for gpu, 1500 for laptop. Of course it isn't worth it for the money :D
     
    Eason, Jun 30, 2016
    #16
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  17. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Nice!

    Since you disable the internal 960m I assume it cant be used as a dedicated PhysX processor? It's a shame if thats the case. I guess this is a conflict with the Optimus stuff?
     
    Demostrike, Jun 30, 2016
    #17
  18. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yeah you can't have both active at once. It causes a resource conflict and it will blue screen. The nvidia software can only detect one card at a time as well.
     
    Eason, Jun 30, 2016
    #18
  19. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Ahh, that kinda sucks. I wonder if they'll get around to making them play nicely together in a driver update.

    Could you share + post up a link to your firestrike results? :) I'd like to compare it to some other benchmarks.

    Also, have you tried overclocking the GPU in the core (or if you don't want to, do you know if its possible)?

    Wish these things were out in the UK already!
     
    Demostrike, Jul 1, 2016
    #19
  20. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Overclocking is possible.

    10573 graphics
    9973 physics
    4119 combined

    (i7/16gb, geforce 970)

    It's worth noting that the 1.2.0 BIOS is about 50% slower in graphics performance over tb3 than 1.1.19. Good job, Dell!
     
    Eason, Jul 1, 2016
    #20
  21. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    That performance drop is mental o_O I really hope they address that in a future bios update!

    Can you link the 3dmark URL? e.g. http://www.3dmark.com/fs/9007593 (My XPS)
    I'd like to compare it to a similar PC running on a desktop CPU if possible. :)

    How are the game framerates - do you see the CPU being or becoming a bottleneck for the GPU?

    Thanks for the information by the way, I've been thinking about doing this setup for a while.
     
    Demostrike, Jul 1, 2016
    #21
  22. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    I'll post a link in a bit.

    Doom runs great (60+) on ultra, overthrow same on epic.

    The 3d mark score is 9100 with latest drivers and 1.19 bios, which is not a bad drop from the 9700 I had on my old itx i5-6500k/970 desktop.
     
    Eason, Jul 1, 2016
    #22
  23. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Alright thanks. Those game results are very good.

    Most people seem to have ran' Firestrike Ultra' to test, so if you could run that I would greatly appreciate it! Will make comparisons a lot easier.

    Still seems to be quite a performance hit considering the set from 970 to 980, I wonder if the dell bios/software is limiting it more than a Razer Blade's would?

    How are you feeling about the setup, are you fully happy?
     
    Demostrike, Jul 1, 2016
    #23
  24. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    I haven't pirated 3dmark yet unfortunately, so I don't have access to ultra benchmark. :(

    What do you mean "considering the set from 970 to 980"? Same GPU, just different CPU with the core, and lost something like 8%? That's not bad.

    Here are the results btw: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/12837830? Note that the 970 is being incorrectly identified as a 960M :)

    How am I feeling about the setup? Well, I like to tinker, so it doesn't bother me when things take a long time to work. It's definitely not "plug and play", though. It is mostly workable, though there are a couple strange issues like not waking up from sleep while plugged in, and poor chrome performance. It's definitely something I can live with as long as it's temporary and will be fixed soon with drivers from Dell.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    Eason, Jul 1, 2016
    #24
  25. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Oh, sorry, I must have picked up the 980 from another post. Yeah 8% is a good trade-off for portability in my mind, although I'm sure some others won't agree!

    Thanks for the results - your Firestrike score is very good. Especially considering the review here: http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10761-razer-core-review/ that claims the Razer Blade 14 only scores 8742 with a 970 in, you're pretty much matching his desktop score. (Could be different clocks perhaps though.)

    PS How is your turbo clock 3.3Ghz mine displays 3.1Ghz in my results?
     
    Demostrike, Jul 1, 2016
    #25
  26. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Might be a misread regarding the # of cores active. 4 cores should be 3.1ghz, so maybe mine was only on 2? Or maybe I accidentally overclocked with ts :p
     
    Eason, Jul 1, 2016
    #26
  27. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yeah I wasn't sure you could do that, I guess you were running 2 cores when it did the CPU turbo boost lookup.

    For anyone else who would like to see the benefits of using the Razer Core and a Geforce 970 with the XPS 9550 i7, here is the comparison I did: http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9058006/fs/9007593#

    PS If you dial down into your score details the 970 shows up as the 2nd GPU, it also lists the iGPU.
     

    Attached Files:

    Demostrike, Jul 1, 2016
    #27
  28. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    That's a good OC. I got the same by using nvidiainspector and having it open every time the laptop resumed from a low power state. Is that what you use to overclock consistently?
     
    Eason, Jul 1, 2016
    #28
  29. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    I just have MSI Afterburner open...I haven't actually checked that the clocks persist after resume...I'll check tonight.
     
    Demostrike, Jul 1, 2016
    #29
  30. gametime10

    gametime10 Notebook Geek

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    Any chance you could test the Core with an XPS 9350?
     
    gametime10, Jul 1, 2016
    #30
  31. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    If you wanna send me one :)
     
    Eason, Jul 1, 2016
    #31
  32. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    New thunderbolt 3 drivers warn "External GPUs are not supported by this computer" when I plug my core in. It still works, though.

    I have not run the firmware yet. If Dell releases a firmware update that disables EGPUs on the XPS 15 I will throw it off my balcony.
     
    Eason, Jul 2, 2016
    #32
  33. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    "The Dell Guy" must be reading your posts!
     
    pressing, Jul 2, 2016
    #33
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  34. Kikuri

    Kikuri Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yes. Dell must read this.
     
    Kikuri, Jul 7, 2016
    #34
  35. Kikuri

    Kikuri Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yes. Dell must read this.
    Thanks @Eason for this thread.
     
    Kikuri, Jul 7, 2016
    #34
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  36. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    I updated my BIOS, fw, and drivers; it still worked but I get a pop up warning.
     
    Eason, Jul 7, 2016
    #35
  37. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Do you get the popup every time you connect it, and does it run at similar performance to you testing on 1.19 (you said 1.20 wasn't as fast)?

    Cheers
     
    Demostrike, Jul 7, 2016
    #36
  38. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yeah, was getting ~9100 firestrike with the 970. I went back to 1.19 though because of the display flicker. So you can update the BIOS, update the tb3 firmware/software, then downgrade to the 1.19.
     
    Eason, Jul 7, 2016
    #37
  39. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Ahh alright, I can probably keep this version on then, I have a FHD version.

    They obviously didn't test the bios update, if it was meant for my FHD version it didn't even fix the low power level flickering.
     
    Demostrike, Jul 7, 2016
    #38
  40. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Someone asked what issues remain.

    1. doesn't wake up reliably because the core will not correctly power-on after it's been off a while. Plugging in the TB3 cable doesn't do it- you need to physically cut its power to the wall and restore it after a few seconds
    2. seems you need to disconnect it before sleep, wake it up, then reconnect the core to get it to work
    3. doesn't run very well on the laptop's screen. Maybe 50-60% speed? It loads things very slowly when its showing on the internal screen, strangely enough. I'm not sure why the GPU connection would limit loading of games.
     
    Eason, Jul 7, 2016
    #39
  41. Skywise

    Skywise Notebook Consultant

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    How does BIOS 1.21 work? Any changes compared to 1.20 and 1.19?
     
    Skywise, Jul 7, 2016
    #40
  42. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    If you read prior posts he's already answered that ;)
     
    Demostrike, Jul 7, 2016
    #41
  43. Skywise

    Skywise Notebook Consultant

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    You're right, sorry, I missed that. At least it means that if you don't have display flicker (I don't), 1.21 is probably the bios to get for now, since I assume it fixes other things as well.

    EDIT: to make this less of a space waste:

    But there's no issues with disconnecting or bandwidth, right? Like if I hooked up a couple of HDDs, keyboard/mouse and USB sound card? If you transfer files to and from external HDDs while gaming - would that lead to stutters or frame drops?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
    Skywise, Jul 8, 2016
    #42
  44. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    I have gotten no issues with bandwidth. Stuff copies slower through the core, but framerates aren't affected AFIK. my 3dmark score is the same regardless of having 4 things plugged in or not.

    A couple things to add: Better to keep the laptop open to prevent the GPU from dropping connection I think. Also, it doesn't seem to overclock much. I got lots of GPU crashes even with a mild +150 core/memory OC with nvinspector
     
    Eason, Jul 8, 2016
    #43
  45. Demostrike

    Demostrike Notebook Enthusiast

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    I suppose the 3dmark score may only be affected if you were actively transferring large files at speed? Perhaps between a USB3 SSD and your internal one.
     
    Demostrike, Jul 8, 2016
    #44
  46. y2jdmbfan

    y2jdmbfan Notebook Guru

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    I didn't see any posts regarding 1.21
     
    y2jdmbfan, Jul 8, 2016
    #45
  47. y2jdmbfan

    y2jdmbfan Notebook Guru

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    Also, have you tried this bios?

    Dell XPS 15 9550 A10 System BIOS 7-5-15

    XPS 15 9550 01.02.10 BIOS
    Fixes & Enhancements
    1.Fixed Dell Thunderbolt Dock (TB15) device will lost after S3 resume
    2.Fixed LCD flickering when in lowest brightness
    3.Fixed After McAfee encrypted, the PCIE NVMe SSD \ SATA SSD can't boot to OS issue
    4.Fixed Wake on WLAN takes a long time with Intel 1830/1820A Wireless card
    5.Fixed USB audio/mouse may be lag while connected to Dell Thunderbolt Dock (TB15) and Dell Dock (WD15)
    6.Support for Windows 10 Enterprise features
    7.Fixed incorrect Thunderbolt security level reading from Driver
    8.Fixed Touchpad may be lost after Dell Thunderbolt Dock (TB15) device connected
    9. Add passthrough MAC address shows on BIOS Setup feature.
    10.Fixed System will become shut-down with connected to Dell Thunderbolt Dock (TB15) after S4 Resume.

    Version
    Version 01.02.10, 01.02.10
    Category
    BIOS
    Release date
    05 Jul 2016
    Last Updated
    05 Jul 2016
     
    y2jdmbfan, Jul 8, 2016
    #46
  48. y2jdmbfan

    y2jdmbfan Notebook Guru

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    And a new TB3 firmware

    This package provides the firmware update for Intel Thunderbolt 3 and is supported on Latitude ,Precision, and XPS systems running Windows 7...
    " style="box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: 400; line-height: 22px; color: inherit; margin: 0px 0px 10px; font-size: 18px; display: inline-block;">Intel(R) Thunderbolt(TM) 3 Firmware Update

    This package provides the firmware update for Intel Thunderbolt 3 and is supported on Latitude ,Precision, and XPS systems running Windows 7...
    View details
    File Name: Intel_TBT3_FW_UPDATE_NVM16_A04_2.16.01.003.exe
    Importance: Optional



    Description: Windows/DOS (532.33 KB)
    Release Date: 08 Jul 2016



    Version: 2.16.01.003 ,A04
    Last Updated: 08 Jul 2016

    Other versions
     
    y2jdmbfan, Jul 8, 2016
    #47
  49. Skywise

    Skywise Notebook Consultant

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    Couldn't you just turn off sleep when closing the lid? I think I'll probably shut down the laptop properly when switching GPUs to avoid issues.

    Overclocking is something I think I'll only do in borderline cases if I need more juice. I think overclocking the CPU would have more of an effect, but not like we have any options in that case.
     
    Skywise, Jul 8, 2016
    #48
  50. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Of course, it's already set to not sleep with the lid shut. I was just getting disconnects with it shut, and none with it open. Perhaps it was just the overclocking though, I'll run it more today to see how stable it is.
    This is the BIOS you were talking about. Yes, I have tried it. Performance is same as 1.19 and the TB3 might be more stable, but I had to roll back to 1.19 because of the screen flicker.

    update: seems to be fine with the lid shut. I guess overclocking is just a no-no.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
    Eason, Jul 8, 2016
    #49
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