Confirmed Security Threat on All XPS 1645!!!

*****NOTE PLEASE POST AND DISCUSS BEFORE ANSWERING NO TO THE POLL. NOTE THIS IS A PUBLIC POLL SO PLEASE FOLLOW THE RULES! Thank you*****

Hi I would like to get all the help from the community to get dell to fix an issue. All dell studio xps models are affected and perhaps more. All bios versions seem to show the same problems. I have gone through extensive testing calling up many people who have xps 1645's and seen the exact same issue on each of them.

Security issue: Bios factory defaults when restarting using only battery (no ac adapter plugged). This can let an attacker get into your system for ex. If you have the bios power on password prompt, an attacker can get into your system by rebooting your computer, The bios then factory resets and boom no more password prompt.

(Note A13 fixes this exact procedure from resetting the bios to factory defaults). First use no ac adapter. Then access the bios and put a setting like summary screen in found in the advanced bios menu. Save the bios settings, watch how the Dell screen appears and summary screen appears afterward. Then as soon as the windows login screen appears restart the computer and watch to see if the summary screen is present! Note do not try to enter the bios now! Just watch to see if the summary screen appeared or not. You may access the bios on the next reboot
We must get together and point out this flaw to dell. Thanks guys

Seems to be some sort of confusion...
The password NEVER resets!! Only the password prompt disables itself (ie: setting of password on boot gets deactivated) and no longer asks you to enter the password when booting the computer. If you access the bios the password is still present!

Latest Update: read the post in red on page 7... bios issue still present with A13 using a different procedure from before!!

 

Sounds like an awesome excuse to get a system replaced.. haha (mostly kidding, but not entirely).

I'll have to try this out sometime.

 

can u get the system replaced if it was purchased through costco lmao

 

If its under warranty, it doesnt matter where it was bought.

 

I heard someone that bought his from bestbuy and dell didn't cover the warranty. dont know about cosco though but IMHO I think costco's warranty is awesome

 

test out the bios guys lol easy do f2 access setup enable or disable something and go into windows press reboot (make sure u dont have power adapter in laptop) then check the bios its gone the setting!

 

Unless you're doing something I don't, this isn't an issue.

Reboot the computer and set HDD password. When I save and exit, it asks for it as expected. I then pull the plug and am on battery - reboot the computer and it asks for it again. I stay on battery and shutdown the computer - it asks when I restart.

 

A bios password is false security, it will never protect your data.

Use full drive encryption with a strong operating system password if you are worried about security.

 

You're right, AFAIK Dell doesn't offer warranty coverage for retail store bought systems (which is why they're usually cheaper). You'd have to return it through Costco and their warranty system.

 

Try the test it im really curious if it does it for you as well. F2 enter setup, enable like summary screen. Then go to windows and restart, make sure NO power ac adapter is connected and look it reset to factory defaults. Takes literally 2 seconds 2 do it.

 

maybe your not saving your bios settings?

 

lol im not stupid! I'm not a noob! I fix computers for a living Try it save it, it then works perfectly then restart and summary screen no longer there. OBV it saved else I wouldnt see the summary screen on first load.

 

it has been tested on several different xps 1645 including ati 4730 and 5730 revisions and A11 and A12 bioses and so far 6 people have had the same issue.

 

W T F?! Couldn't believe it. But you are right!
I set up an Supervisor Password and enabled the Boot Password. Save and Exit -> Password Promt. Windows -> Restart (Without AC) -> No Password promt!
Weird... o_0

Hm, 16 days of warranty left on my Dell. I'll give them a call next week and listen what they say...

 

lol you see!!!!!!! lol thanks Fusel for actually trying! This however is bad because every single setting gets reset!!! Must suck for ppl using bios mods and setting custom levels!

 

help me by writing on my thread on dells site SECURITY ISSUE Dell Studio XPS 1645 - Laptop General Hardware Forum - Laptop - Dell Community

 

yo can you give me your motherboard model number or rev date of north and southbridge? Use cpuz on motherboard tab. Also do u have ati 5730 or 4670? U never mentioned in your signature cause there are 2 motherboards for 1645. And finally what bios are you using.

 

Just to correct my previous post.

Yeap, it resets any value you change in BIOS as mentioned - except the passwords. The passwords I set remain for me.

 

Passwords always remain however the power on password prompt disables just a clarification

 

Anyone can reset a bios password. This is not the only way, if you want security, encrypt your data. Try TrueCrypt or Axcrypt

 

the point of this issue first off is to determine how many people experience the motherboard resetting itself to factory default with this glitch. Secondly to make people aware that this issue occurs which BTW is NOT normal. And lastly nobody can reset a bios password! There is only a master password which dell can provide you however to get this you need to confirm many security questions ex: name, address etc. So therefore it is a security flaw! and also can cause many problems for ppl using the modded bioses for the xps because the overclocking values may reset as well this way!

Also it should be noted that boot passwords are there to prevent people from using your computer. With a hd encryption utility you can prevent people from using your windows/hard drive however if i steal your computer, i could just format the hard drive and use it. Boot password I would need to call dell to get the master password and go through security else I would need to get access to the tpm chip by jtagging or something and changing the password like that which becomes more of a hardware hack, which requires more knowledge.

 

OH MY GOSH.

This finally explains why my WiFi button keeps getting changed back to all radios when I explicitly set it to just BT. AFAIK, this happens to me just through a sleep cycle (change, sleep, wake up, back to default); let me confirm.

 

Ya exactly no freakin settings remain!!! ITS SO ANNOYING lool Now I'm wondering is this affecting completely ALL dell 1645's or is it a bad batch? all 1645's I tested were manufactured or bought in september 2010 with the exception of mine but the motherboard was changed on mine so we can't exactly determine the batch. Or is it simply a bios glitch that is plaguing us. But it is so weird that with the power cable it works flawlessly...

So far motherboard part numbers:
Y517R is a parent part of Y507R is the component ie: real motherboard part number-> Motherboard for ATI 4670
WDH9C -> Motherboard for ATI 5730

so theoretically anyone with these parts are affected that may include studio xps 1647 as well...

 

Not a good idea if you're using SF based SSD.

 

point being this is a flaw lol im sure everyone agrees it is normal and something needs to be done.. Thats what I am trying to accomplish so any experts know how to proceed? Dell won't care about 1 guy having this issue im actually kinda pissed off at this laptop.

1) bios issue
2) speaker needs something to hold it down like a pad cause its not screwed down..
3) throttling issue which I don't think is fixed 100%
4) the actual palm rest has imperfections if u look at it under the reflections u can see several dents which appear like lines all in the front and towards the right near the pad for the screen a circular dent... got a new palm rest and same thing... + now I got no stickers how does that suck,, and ebay prevents and makes the sale of windows microsoft stickers illegal lol im sure u can still buy but ya dell should provide us with this. They say no stickers are available to be sent yet they take back my old palm rest with the stickers.. sad. In the end they are stickers but still the principle.
5) oh ya cant forget the new gpu throttling too

It starts off by having 1 bug, u accept it, get another bug, u work around it but comes time where u think about the price u paid and ur like yaaaa I expected better..

Anyways take my poll I guess its a good way of starting a list!

 

Here you go:
ATI 4670

Mainboard Model Number: 0Y517R
Chipset: DMI Host Bridge Rev. 11
Soutbridge: PM55 Rev. 05

BIOS A12

 

update- password doesn't reset but the 'enabled' resets to 'disabled' for 'require password on boot'
I tried this out myself, setting a Supervisor Password and switching the Internal WWAN to 'disabled.' Tried several restarts (and a sleep or 2) with re-configuring.

Supervisor Password- this never reset for me, and it ALWAYS made me enter it in (even on battery). So this is working perfectly on my system.

Internal WWAN- this resets to the default value of 'enabled' so overall there is some sort of BIOS issue.

 

Seems to be some sort of confusion...
The password NEVER resets!! Only the password prompt disables itself and no longer asks you to enter the password when booting the computer. If you access the bios the password is still present!

i.e: password on boot bios setting is set to enabled and gets deactivated after a restart on no ac adapter.

cpuz motherboard tab should have the rest of the info.

 

Actually, yes, there are other ways to reset a BIOS password on ANY computer. And there is NO security risk because a BIOS password doesn't protect your data. It's a false sense of security.

 

Bios password doesnt at all protect data, You can take the hard drive out and read it without any problems on another machine however a bios password makes using that motherbaord problematic.

actually the bios passwords are not resetting but the bios factory defaults to password on prompt -> disabled. Bios password is always active when you enter the bios.

But its still not right that our bios settings factory default... It means you can never change options in the bios...

 

It's not a security threat, it's a design defect. That's the point.

 

yup actually i'm just upset of the factory defaulting and bios resetting. I want to get this resetting issue fixed. It causes some annoyances, and bios to halt a little longer on reboots etc. Also problematic if u use a modded bios and set custom thresholds. And most importantly... it is not normal.

 

Alright, I set the 'require password on boot' to 'enabled' and you were right, it goes back to 'disabled' when I restarted on battery power. Oddly enough it wasn't reset after a shutdown, but when I restarted it was. I never used one of these passwords before so I was confused I guess.

BIOS A09, ATI 4670
Model: 0Y517R
Chipset: Intel IDD132 Rev. 11
Southbridge: Intel ID3B03

I'm guessing that the problem is Dell's ability to make a proper BIOS and not Intel's hardware.

 

lol nono its ok I think its the way I explained it haha. Again sorry for the confusion if you have any recommendations on posts that I can edit to avoid future mix ups pm me and let me know

also guys don't forget to write about this issue on the dell site if you are experiencing the same problem, perhaps they will do something there. Again that link is http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/p/19372537/19852226.aspx#19852226

 

So I know that something like this has affected me before, as there are settings that I know I've set (such as Wake on USB) which are then disabled at some point later. Unfortunately, I was not able to replicate the problem just now. I tried rebooting with and without having the AC power plugged in. I also tried doing a complete shutdown with and without the AC power plugged in, and each time the settings in the bios were as I set them.

I didn't try the bios password options, because I've never used those before, so if that is the only setting affected, then perhaps I'll try again.

 

Don't use the AC adapter at all for this test. Try the summary screen in advanced. Then reboot the pc from windows restart. I did it from the login screen. If this issue does not occur on your machine tell me ur motherboard specs from the cpuz utility as well as bios version. Don't try to access the bios on the reboot let it go and see if you indeed see that summary screen. If you don't its an indication of factory defaults!
Then reboot again and access the bios.

 

Interesting... after trying the "Summary screen" option, and rebooting (without AC power ofcourse), I lost all of my bios options. So yes, I can confirm that this issue affects me as well.

 

HAA such an epic fail on dell's behalf. Anyways RacingGun perhaps accessing the bios on next reboot prevents the issue.. Did you notice ur usb wake reset too? Make a post on the dell forum and vote on the poll in this forum too

 

Ya, it affected all of the settings that I changed in the bios.

In the past, I have disabled my bluetooth and WWAN adapters in the bios, because I don't use them, but at seemingly random times, they would be enabled again in the bios. This definitely explains what as going on there.

 

So Guys!! What's next do we all complain and get brand new studio XPS 15's lmao the only thing that sux on studio 15's is the laptop lid cover - gray. I haven't noticed a nice piano sleek finish like we got with our 1645's

don't forget to vote on this poll on this thread

I don't know why erick_e voted no.... hopefully he can write and explain us whats happening on his end...

 

Sometimes people are silly. Someone might say "I never use these options so it doesn't effect me" or better yet "I don't have an SXPS 1645 but I was browsing the forums and wanted to answer the poll question."

 

lmao u find the new xps 15 nice? Dell XPS 15 Laptop Details | Dell Canada

I don't like the gray and the black part look at the gallery second pic. That piece sticks out... not sure if I would even want the new one if dell even offered it to me. The pluses are the JBL speakers fixes that glitch, The metallic finish, fixes the dents from plastic manufacturing, and the screen only is either 1366x768 or 1920x1080. I have 1600x900 so they would have no choice to upgrade me to the 1920x1080. Other than that our system as AGN wireless card so they would have to give us the upgraded wireless card.. neways I don't think they would even offer me a system exchange since I didn't purchase directly from dell...

 

would they consider SXPS16 return as a full price? i bought mine fully packed at a price close to $2000 in august 2010. would they consider an exchange of system with similar price range?

 

im starting to think the poll was probably a bad idea! lol ppl post polls without even consulting! It's even worst when they say no ex: erick_e, sheikhstone both said no to the poll. Should we remove the poll lmao neways hopefully we can get a mod with the ability to justify votes lmao

If people aren't affected i'd be more than happy to know what bios version/motherboard model number/ chipset revision they have on their laptops.

 

I say keep the poll. Its a good indicator of how many people this is affecting. And whats to consult? I screwed around with this for 30 minutes and couldnt identify a problem. Boot order, wireless, and password all stay saved if change them.

 

Erick try this first stay only on battery power. Now access your bios and go to advanced, enable the summary screen save and exit.. you'll see the dell screen followed by the summary screen. Now go into windows and press reboot. Leave the computer on and watch as the summary screen will no longer be there. Now if u reboot again and access the setup you will see it disabled. Try this and get back to me. Thanks erick!

Again for the password it is the password prompt if you enable the password on prompt this window will no longer be present on a reboot. The actual password always remains but the prompt when you start your computer will not. I.E entering the bios will always demand you for a password

 

Does really someone believe Dell is going to exchange the systems?

 

just checked on mine! NO BIOS SETTING ITSELF TO DEFAULT. NO SUCH PROBLEMS AT ALL!!! tried using wireless button setups, summary screen enable and password setups. nothing went to default, neither from restarting, shutting down, or going to sleep mode. All done while running on battery. I guess this issue is not relevant to all 1645 users. Later models don't have such problem. purchased mine in late August 2010.

 

this one is from september 2010 and has a new motherboard... both did the same thing... weird what bios version you running?

 

Its original A12 from dell drivers website. but what bugs me, the GPU throttling issue still persists. when my GPU reaches 85C, it downclocks to 450mhz instead of 650. what i found out is that is a BIOS issue. still dont understand why they don't rise the threshold at least to ~95