07/04/11 - Update to throttling XPS 1645

Hey guy's so after getting Dell to fix our bios reset problem fixed with revision A13 lets try to get Dell to fix the XPS 1645 throttling issues. I want to know your outcomes.

Please look at post #5 from gpig to learn how to do the test.

- 150w / 130w / 90w ac adapter
- bios revision
- ATI 4670 / 5730
- i7 processor ex: i7-720QM, i7-740QM
- motherboard revision number (found right near the upper left of the gpu)
- mods done ex: thermal paste change/ none /vent holes etc.
- options set in the two programs

I am hoping we can get some good results off this thanks
Note: I don't want a monster thread like other ones haha Just want to draw a conclusion if different motherboards and different alternatives help out. Any irrelevant comments will be removed lets just keep it plain and simple

 

no to hijack but they give out 150w adapters now?

 

Here are the basics of throttling on the S-XPS 1645.

There are two kinds of throttling, one due to lack of power, and one due to overheating.

Power Based Throttling- Sometimes the system needs more power to operate at full performance. When it can't draw enough power, the CPU reduces its performance. In some cases has been shown to sometimes reduce its performance level down to way below 0.5GHz.

Hardware configurations that use more power are more likely to have this kind of throttling. The more hardware you have with the (+) symbol, the more likely you may experience power based throttling.

Hardware-------------------------------------------
i5 and i7 dual core processors (S-XPS 1647 only)
i7 quad processor (+)

ATI 4670 (+)
ATI 5730

WLED
RGBLED (+)

90w adapter (+)(+)
130w adapter
-------------------------------------------------------

Dell's "fix"- 130w adapter with BIOS update (A06 and later I think) to allow the system to use the 130w adapter. The fix helps but doesn't eliminate power based throttling in every configuration.

Thermal (Overheating) Throttling- There are temperature limits that when hit, the system lowers its performance levels to cool off. This is for the CPU and GPU. In basically every BIOS for the SXPS 1645, when you hit the temperature 84C on the CPU, the CPU reduces its performance. When you hit 84C on the GPU, the GPU reduces its performance.

The trick is, on BIOS A09, your GPU won't throttle until 100C, and usually the GPU is the part that runs hot.

How to cool off your system- http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-xps-studio-xps/500027-how-keep-your-sxps-cool.html . I particularly like points 4 and 10. Try the dust filter trick first since its free, easy, fast, and you can always put it back. If you keep your GPU and CPU below 84C (GPU can go to 100 on BIOS A09), you won't be affected by this kind of throttling.

I don't think so, but the BIOS wouldn't allow the system to draw any more power from it than from a 130w. You can use the 210w adapter that some Dell business laptops use (and it functions like a 130w).

 

good job gpig so now we need a testing environment any recommendation on the process to test both types of throttling? I'm really curious if some board revisions are immune...

 

Software:
Prime95 (stresses CPU 100%)
Furmark (stresses GPU 100%)
GPU-Z (monitors GPU clocks)
Throttlestop (monitors CPU clocks & more)
Optional:
HWMonitor (monitors temperatures but Throttlestop can do this as well)
Your favorite game or other application

The way to make sure that the system is completely throttle free is to max out both the GPU and CPU at the same time. Some people might not care, because even the most demanding game or application won't push the system to the max, so you can substitute your game or application for Prime95 and Furmark.

What you want to do is open up GPU-Z, Throttlestop, and (optional) HWMonitor, and set GPU-Z and Throttlestop to generate a log file.
To check for power related throttling, set all settings in Windows to ‘maximum performance’ including the brightness. Then open Prime95 and run 8 threads of the Small FFTS Torture test. While that’s running, open Furmark and run a Stability Test, and feel free to check the ‘xtreme burning mode’ and ‘post fx’ options. After you run these two programs at the same time (1 minute is enough), close them, and check your Throttlestop log. For the i720QM, your multiplier should stay at 12.000, although slight variation down to 11.900 is fine. You can also check the GPU-Z log to see if the clocks for the card went below max (675/800 for the 4670), but the power related throttling seems to only affect the CPU.

To check for Thermal throttling, run Prime95 (8 threads, Small FFTs Torture Test) and then alongside that, run Furmark for 30 minutes. Afterwards, check the Throttlestop and GPU-Z logs. (Alternatively, you can play a game or a different application instead of running Prime95 and Furmark, but it won’t stress out your system as much. If you do this, the multipliers in Throttlestop will move around a bit.) If you post the log on the forums, someone can tell you if it’s good or not. The GPU-Z log should show the maximum clocks the whole time.
If you have HWMonitor running, check the temperatures. Above 83C on the CPU is bad, the system is about to throttle. Above 83C on the GPU is bad unless you’re on BIOS A09, than above 99C is bad.

If your CPU multipliers stay steady and the GPU clock stays at the maximum for 30 minutes of Prime95 and Furmark, you don't have a throttling problem.

*Note- If you want to know which kind of throttling you may have, lower your screen brightness when checking for Thermal Throttling. In my particular case, full brightness means I will get some significant power related throttling, and minimum brightness means I will get no throttling.

 

thanks a lot gpig alright so the above instructions are the approved method. Please post your results along with the following information.

- 150w / 130w / 90w ac adapter
- bios revision
- ATI 4670 / 5730
- i7 processor ex: i7-720QM, i7-740QM
- motherboard revision number (found right near the upper left of the gpu)
- mods done ex: thermal paste change/ none /vent holes etc.
- options set in the two programs

 

I'll get it done once i receive my 130W adapter (previous one died).
But basically, I've been able to eliminate all throttling on my XPS 1645 (specs in sig).

How?

-Use external monitor (now it won't even throttle with prime+furmark, because it has enough power AND the output vent isn't blocked)
-Use Bios A09 (just in case my GPU does get above 84c)
-Use throttle stop (100% ckmod/chipmod, 13x multi)
-Sleep my laptop (when i hibernate/shutdown, i get severe CKMOD throttling, even with throttlestop)
-I've also removed the dustfilter below my GPU. Now my GPU hits 90c max, rather than 100c.

 

Mine throttles, i can stop CPU throttling using throttlestop, but cant deal with GPU throttling on 5730, when GPU temps reaches 85C it automatically downclock itelf to 450mhz. A12 bios tested. 130W adapter, i7-840QM

 

So try removing the dust filter

 

dust filters are gone long times ago

 

well then you probably game with LCD up or you live in the sahara.
My 4670 doesn't get above 91c with OCed clocks

 

840 QM with ~40 watt consumption at full load, maybe thats the problem? want some realistic ideas, not related to sahara.

 

- 130w ac adapter
- bios revision - A13
- ATI 5730
- i7 processor ex: i7-720QM
- motherboard revision number (found right near the upper left of the gpu) - In hardware or wat?
- mods done ex: None
- options set in the two programs - Small FFTs 8 thread torture test, Burn in 1920x1080

Results : Definitely power AND thermal throttling.

ThrottleStop logs show a constant 12.00 for about half a minute which falls to 10.00 and stays for a minute and then falls further to 8 and then even 7.

GPU-Z logs are a bit weird as it shows GPU clock at 150MHz which keeps jumping to 799MHz ever 5 seconds or so.

Regarding temperatures, CPU & GPU temps are both over 84, with CPU peaking at 92 and GPU at 88 ( Temps are in degree Celsius).

 

that is weird with your GPU, if its not modded, it cannot raise to 799MHZ, as it is set to 650mhz as by default. try to stop CPU throttling with throttlestop, and see what happens to your GPU when it gets to around 85C

 

Can please someone tell me if my gpu is throttling?
I am attaching the log file.. View attachment GPU-Z Sensor Log.txt


thanks..

 

Looking at your GPU load, you've logged a lot of time where your GPU wasn't used (= not gaming etc)
While under load, you GPU stays at 675/800mhz, so no it's not throttling.
I assume you use A09? Your gpu hits 85c

 

first few minutes i played sfIV and then crysis at 1280Xsome resoultion...hardly took minutes to start stuttering...
[/ATTACH]

 

does not look like your GPU throttles. it doesn't even get as hot as mine))

 

Very interesting that it allows temps above 84C. Anyone else try out the new BIOS yet? I'll try it out sooner or later too.

 

at 00:14 your CPU starts throttling. Have you tried turrning on throttlestop and forcing 100%ckmod/clockmod and 13x multiplier?
You're using the 130w adapter right?

 

Tried it out, still throttles for me like the all the other BIOSes except A09 if I hit 84C (although I rarely hit it anymore). So I'd still recommend A09 for 4670 users.

 

got a new heatsink with stock cpu and gpu thermalpaste weird that the stock heatsink keeps the temps lower than arctic silver.... really strange. I applied arctic silver perfectly and yet seems better with the stock.. operating temps are under 50 degrees (CPU & GPU) something I didn't see with arctic silver which was usually more around 55 degrees (CPU & GPU)..

no mods on my unit completely 100% stock and still has dust filters..

 

I have been fighting XPS 1645 performance for several weeks now, specifically because the game Rift runs much more slowly than expected, given that the 1645 exceeds the recommended requirements. On paper, I should be able to run it in Ultra quality, but I get poor framerates even running on Low quality. I have the i7 quad-core and the ATI 4670 video card.

At first I concentrated on the GPU and the game itself, since there have been many reports of Rift (the Gamebryo engine) performing terribly with ATI cards. I've updated the video driver and I've tried several tweaks with Rift itself, but nothing worked.

Then I learned about the XPS throttling due to lack of power. I installed the latest BIOS (A13), and it gave me a 10 frames-per-second improvement in the game! An improvement, but still terrible performance compared to what I should be getting -- I still have to run in Low quality to avoid slideshows. I still had the 90w adapter, so I called Dell and they shipped me a 130w. I assumed that once I fixed the other half of the problem (weak adapter), the machine would get lightning fast. I switched it out yesterday and...no difference whatsoever.

So then I found accounts of people still having throttling issues due to heat, even after the BIOS/adapter fix. And our 1645 does run very hot...the area just below the keyboard is surprisingly hot to the touch after playing for some time.

I installed monitors to check my CPU and GPU temperature. I turned on the 1645 this morning and immediately launched Rift, so that I was starting from a "cold state." I had exactly the same crappy fps as always. I checked my monitors; the GPU was 50 degrees celcius and the CPUs were around 59 degrees. Apparently the throttling starts at 85 degrees, so it would appear I wasn't suffering from heat throttling at that time.

I'm running out of ideas, but I'm starting to think the problem may go back to the original theory of Rift being terrible with ATI cards. I guess I'm posting here out of desperation, in case anybody has other ideas on how the 1645 might be to blame rather than the Rift software.

 

Have you tried BIOS A09? That's step number 1.

 

No, because my understanding is that the only reason to revert to A09 is that it lets your GPU get to 100 degrees before throttling, rather than 85. I have problems when the GPU is well below 85, so I don't think A09 is relevant to my issue. (Although, like I said, I may exceed 85 after extended use, in which case A09 would be a next step...I still need to monitor that)

 

Well is it just 1 game that is having a problem?

 

1) download bios A13.5 from here: (it's bios A13 with video bios from A09 )
1645_A13W2_NC.zip
Just use winflash like always: WinPhlash 64-bit (turn off Flash only if BIOS version is different)

2) Use throttlestop and force 100% clock modulation, 100% chipset clock mod and turbo multiplier
Downloads | Tech|Inferno

Just a note though, I'm unable to play any game for an extended period of time with the LCD up or with the XPS on a flat surface. I've put my XPS on a stand and use an external monitor. Only this way I can run the XPS at full potential

 

The only resource-intensive thing run on this PC (my wife's) is Rift...otherwise it's just email and browsing. So I can't really say how badly other games are affected. I have some more information though...except for the first point this is mostly Rift-specific, but hopefully this is still some use:

* When I said that upgrading to the A13 bios improved my fps by 10, I forgot to mention that I also upgraded my Intel chipset driver at the same time. So I don't know for sure which one of those resulted in the improvement, or if it was a combination of the two. You don't hear much about chipset drivers, so that might be something to look into for those that haven't?

* I did some extensive testing/tweaking with the 1645 last night, both Rift settings and messing with AMD Catalyst. Even though the laptop got hot to the touch after a while of running the game, neither the CPU nor the GPU got anywhere close to the 85-degree throttling cutoff. So I'm not really concerned about the higher A9 GPU cutoff at this point. The only thing special we're doing for cooling is resting the laptop on a cooling pad.

* People say that Rift is very CPU-intensive, but using the AMD System Monitor I found this not to be true. The GPU was constantly at 90% capacity or higher, but the CPU had lots of power to spare. However, I've since read that the CPU/GPU ratio is affected by screen resolution. At lower resolutions the CPU will do a lot of work, but at high resolution it passes off more of the work to the GPU. I was running at the highest possible resolution for the game, 1920x1080. So when benchmark sites are testing CPU, they will run their reference games in lower resolution so that CPU does more of the work.

* The solution I came to last night is to use the Low Quality Renderer provided with Rift. Normally it looks terrible. However, I learned that if you crank your graphics settings to the max before you turn on the LQR, then it actually looks really good...not only is it a performance improvement, but the graphics actually look better than we were able to run with the regular renderer. You have to crank the settings before you enable LQR, because enabling it will actually disable a lot of the settings so that you can't change them anymore. This is working great, I'm getting 50 fps in most of the game, and 30 fps in busy areas...which is much higher than I was getting before despite all the 1645 tweaks and Rift tweaks that I'd tried. And the graphics are actually a substantial improvement even though we're using the "low quality" renderer...so it's sort of a non-intuitive fix.

 

Well, instead of doing all that testing and writing that huge post you could've just downloaded throttlestop and play rift for a while. It will easily tell you/us whether your XPS is CPU-throttling.

And downloading/installing the A13.5 bios won't hurt you at all and will make sure you won't get GPU throttling..

 

Huge post? Really? Sorry for trying to be helpful.

 

Trying to be helpful? I thought YOU were the one who needed help here