V1JP and Lenovo T

In terms of build quality, how does the V1JP compare to the T series? (T60p, T61, T61p)?

 

This is a quote from MysticGolem's review about the V1JP.
"Firstly, the lid exhibits a considerable amount of flex, I personally am disappointed. Even though the lid is made from magnesium alloy, the lid flexes, and then shows ripples in the screen. I do feel a bit weary of the lid not being able to protect the screen at its highest potential."

"Secondly, the hinges seem to exhibit some flexing but no creaking sound or anything, I do feel comfortable with the hinges, but I would have liked to have the same hinge design of the ASUS W3 series."

 

IBM is winning on the Asus forum! Oh no!

What Thinkpads lack in style it makes up for in durability and functionality.

 

lol

I voted for the ThinkPad. If it wasn't for the video card and no DVI out I would've gotten a T series back when I was deciding. And yes, I've actually handled multiple T series notebooks. Besides the reinforced industrial notebooks there aren't any that I can think of that are more solidly built.

 

In terms of build quality, Thinkpad.

 

It's no contest here, they are both aimed at similiar but different markets.

 

I voted for the V1Jp, but I think the build quality of the Lenovo is much better. I voted for Asus because the specs are better. The reason I would probably never go for a Lenovo is the lousy gpu's they use. Maybe if I was just interested in a pure business-notebook I'd go for it.

But I didn't really read the OP, so my mistake here.

 

Ouch, poor Asus///it's 6-1 (and that 1 was sort of conditional too). And here I was hoping you guys would persuade me back into getting a V1 instead of the T61p =P

I hear what you're saying Druif. The GPU that's set to come out on the T61p is making me cringe. Hopefully Asus will come up with a few surprises (and battery fixes) with the SR refresh soon.

 

The V5250 is a recommissioned X1700 ... it's not that much slower. Perhaps only 5-10% slower.

 

The V1JP is definitely a sexier notebook

 

I think people arn't reading the OP's post before voting but alright the V1JP is sexier.

 

Ah it's alright. I'm just trying to make a decision between the two, so any sort of opinion is fine

 

Shouldn't you be comparing V1JP with the T60P? The T61P isn't out yet and I think we're just guessing on the specs. I'd expect the GPU in the T61P to better than the V1JP, but the V1JS (when it's announced) to be better than the T61P. The T61P should have Robson but we don't know about the Santa Rosa V1.

 

Probably. I'll be buying in about about a month, possibly waiting til 2 months, so hopefully the V1JS is out by then. (hopefully? maybe? possibly? please be out by then?)

 

I've heard July. I'd like to purchase before then too but I'd be willing to wait for a V1S if the specs are right. Hopefully it'll have 2mb of ram at this price point.

 

To those who are voting for the V1J because it has "better features" or "looks better" - while these may be true, the person who wrote the poll asked the question, "which laptop has better build quality," not "which laptop would win a beauty contest."

Please don't lead him astray here.

 

I'm concidering to buy either the vj2 or t61 aswell...
My conceren is manly weight and size (lookwise i prefere the asus!) - is the v1j much bulkier than the t61? Thicker?
And in case anybody has an opinion - what do you think about the compaq nc6410 compared to these two?

 

Well the T61 is a 14.1" laptop, whereas the V1Jp is a 15.4" laptop. It's basically comparing apples and oranges ... "Tell me which fruit is more orange!" The T61 will, of course, be lighter and smaller. Perhaps a better comparison would be a T61 and an Asus V2Je, which is Asus' 14.1" business laptop.

The Compaq is more like the Thinkpad than the Asus. The Compaq will also only come with a Radeon X1300, which is in a different league when you compare it to the Quadro NVS140M in the T61, the Radeon X1450 in the V2, or the Radeon X1700 in the V1 (for Santa Rosa refreshes, the V2 will likely have an 8400M GT and the V1 will likely have an 8600M GT).

Perhaps you should try some of the newer Compaq laptops with the Santa Rosa refresh:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=121909

 

Wonder if I can edit the poll to include the HP nc8430 or something.

 

Fren, thank you for your help!

Though i missread the poll - i was assuming - given the size and the specs of the of the v2j - that it was about the t61 vs. the v2j anyway. Is the v2j much bulkier than the t61?

And isn't the 6410p with the santa rosa chipset? It seems to me to be a good alternative to the t61 (i'm having a tough time deciding on which of the three to get right now..) - both size and specs seem simular.And only 4 pounds light, a supposedly long battery life and the 1440x900 res.
Does anybody have any opinion on the 6410p in contrast to the t61 (vj2?)

 

[HP and HP/Compaq are here listed as HP and Compaq single brands are Compaq]

Compaqs are trouble. They always have been. They are sort of the Daihatsu of the Computer industry, you can get them cheap, but remember that they are made even more cheaply. Cheap build plastics retain heat and cause drive malfunctions, the stylised chassis both retains heat and forces the engineers to place components awkwardly, often grouping hot components together. HP, on the other hand, learned the hard way (I bought one of their notebooks in about 1998, during their growing pains) how to take away from less important areas to add to others. They take deals on older graphical equipment and CPU platforms in order to allow much more average (average being good for a budget laptop) heat handling abilities and richer feel. Lately they have taken a more component driven route and opted to price up their higher models in order to take small hits in the budget department in order to maintain a decent build quality and overall acceptable performance levels. (This is what it looked like from the outside at least, I am not an employee of the company nor an industry analyst). You aren't looking at the budget market though, so Compaq itself is out of the question and the other issues are notwithstanding. The importance of it all is the following: HP does have a small price hike (only possibly 100-200 dollars at the extreme most) in the range you are viewing and Compaq is absolutely not relevant. If you are looking for a ThinkPad type computer, get the ThinkPad, certainly. If you are looking for a performance laptop with a business attitude then the V1 series may be what you need. A word about Compaq and its critical reception though: The Presario series has been lauded for great prices for above par performance/portability/whatever from many respected reviewers. The problem here is that these reviews are VERY short-term, one month at the longest. This is simply because they have to write so many reviews in a month they only get each product for a limited period of time. The compaq will run great out of the box, but give it a year, a longitudinal comparison study between these laptops would show, IMHO (as all of this is), these rankings (accounting for OPs original question about build quality):
[All MTBF's calculated using ghetto reliability functions related to the known failure rates of similar components (MTFB of components: 70,000 hours) then scaled using values I approximated in the 15 minutes it took to write the previous paragraph] {These are based on the models in discussion and do not relate to the company's other laptops which may be much better or much worse}

1. ThinkPad - MTBF: 45,000 hours - Before Replacement: Non-upgradeable Parts being phased out will end this compy's life - I am personally acquainted with ThinkPads pushing 7 years old and still quite stable. These have a proven track record of being terribly resilient.

2. HP - MTBF: 35,000 hours - Before Replacement: Mediocre plastics will show signs of age around 2.5 years, they will become a replacement issue around 4. The current plastics used by HP have not been out for 4 years though, so I have not been able to see how they take aging, I would be willing to see another half of a year in this computer's life.

3. Asus - MTBF: 30,000 hours - Before Replacement: These computers use high end parts, which induce high end heat. The above two keep temps below 70 in almost all but the most system intensive processes. Asus tries to deliver performance for all the years of the systems life, forward thinking parts. Unfortunately they do sometimes cut a hinge too thin or use too much plastic in the wrong areas (to push down prices) and when heat gets to them some screen wobble, keyboard flex and system instability may occur. At some point, heat as well as cheaper build plastics around crucial parts (the power source, though I have seen these often break in HPs as well, I hear that this has been fixed) will probably cause a system failure. This will happen in the 3.5 year arena for the V1 series.

4. Compaq - MTBF: 15-20,000 hours: Before Replacement - I have seen these break 2 weeks after coming out of the box and I have seen them run for 2.5 years without problems. One thing I do know is that what ever problem it does have will be a lethal one. I was first acquainted with the Blue Screen of Death with a Compaq and it remains the brand where I have seen the most of them. The poor heat control and build materials mess up the memory modules/HDD (which can be replaced but buying a new one for an old laptop may not be fun). The majority of these break out of warranty unless you shell 350 bucks for the 3 year extensive plan.

Other Rankings, in my experience:
Comparing the models listed, regardless of what type of fruit they are.

Performance (business):
1. ThinkPad
2. HP
3. Asus
4. Compaq

Performance (Gaming)
1. Asus
2. HP
3. ThinkPad
4. Compaq

Battery Life
1. ThinkPad
2. HP
3. Compaq
4. Asus (The V1 will eat your battery's breakfast)

Portability
1. Compaq
2. ThinkPad
3. HP
4. Asus
(though none of these can be thought of as uncomfortable to travel with, some are just easier than others)

Value (qualitative performance/hours/price):

The Compaq's exorbitantly low prices threw off the scale (the dollar amount percentages at that rate did not scale accurately to the value of each hour of performance. Below a certain theshold the rating was skewed making the ThinkPad the least economic though it is the same price as the HP which would have been second. I don't have a good value formula on hand =P) These are qualitative assessments:
1 - ThinkPad
2 - Compaq
3 - HP
4 - Asus (V1J model)

Again none of these are going to break the bank, but the Asus does have better components for its shorter lifespan. The ThinkPad will net you so many hours before it fails (failures may not even be critical failures) That being over one and a half times the Compaq, still (I believed) to be the greater value.

Overall (weighted by satisfaction and brand history, accounting for what you want):
1. ThinkPad
2. HP
3. Asus
4. Compaq

If you are running a tight budget now, but will have money for a nicer model later then the Compaq may be for you, it will do you right for at least a year, and for a low price. If 1.5k is your price area, my suggestion would be that the ThinkPad is worth the stretch for the businessman, and save your money for the excellent G1S coming out soon if you are a serious gamer, that will be 2k. (professionalism being an issue then you should wait then for the V1JS, it has elegant styling and is geared for productivity it has the parts for running the latest games if you are not the discerning type who needs to the blackheads on Gordon Freeman's forehead. Santa Rosa really unlocks the Merom's power and will be worth the buck).

I hope all of that could help some!

 

Wow, very detailed analysis. Thanks for the info!
Although you don't rank the Asus very high in any single category except for gaming, your description of it appeals to me immensely. Let's hope the v1JS comes out before summer's over and has a few nice surprises

Thanks!

 

I'd say that's a pretty fair comparison. I'd list Asus a bit higher in some of those comparisons... but overall it's pretty accurate.

We'll still need more reviews of the T61 before we can make a fair judgement though...

 

My rankings were for business purposes. For those reasons many of its features are superfluous. If you are an avid gamer or a designer, but are looking for a professional looking alternative to the flashy (some might say gimmicky =P) styling of the G series then I have heard many good things about the V1.

Edit: Thanks for your compliments =)

 

Alexonfyer, many thanks for the help. I've been looking for a comparison like that since a few days.. seems your my savior

I got confused again with the names and wrote 6410 - it should have been the new HP Compaq 6910p. 14", 1440x900 res., about 4 pounds light and other than that average (business notebook) specs.

Given your comparison the hp compac seems a solid choice. I wish i could get hands on on one though.

The same with the asus - I've read all the reviews but never actually seen the vj2 - can anybody give me some idea bout how it feels like traveling around with the vj2 instead of a t61? Much bulkier?

Thanks!

 

T60:
14.1 x 10 x 1.3 in :: 358 x 254 x 33 mm
5.5 lb :: ~2.5 kg

V1J:
14.3 x 10.4 x 1.4 in :: 363 x 263 x 35.7 mm
5.95 lb :: 2.7 kg

So while the v1j is not one that you could just throw under your arm like the T60 is made to be, they are both fairly equivalent in the portability department.

The reason Asus recieved last in my comparison is that it was the ONLY lappy in question that was not meant to be able to slide in with your books and binders naturally. I should have made the disclaimer that though some ARE better than others, these are all business notebooks and are made to travel. Some of them are just easier to bring to a quick lunch and to have in business meetings than others. For particularly long meetings, the Asus would probably have a rather non-elegant AC adapter running across the floor, but for me (I love far-sighted performance [that is a machine that is made to be on the average in a year's time instead of only a few months like other companies do. This is important to gamers, graphical designers and transistor heads.])

Also reexamining my Value rankings I believe I need to explain again. The Asus is worth the money. OP happened to choose 4 of the best values (though one of them is just hands down the cheapest) in the industry. Ranking many computers in the same way, the rankings would have been very much the same. Compaq was better in that be cause you could almost get three of them for the price of one of the others. Value did not consider time costs for shipping for repairs dealing with customer service and eventually buying a new computer when the time came. I could not fairly integrate those variables without unacceptable margins of error (without owning all of them at the same time for a period of 2 years I would be able to accurately predict this kind of data). I could squash the margins of error using older models but that doesn't give progressive companies like HP an equal footing. They used to be in the shop all of the time, also one drop and they would be ruined, but lately HPs have become entirely different animals. They have also done wonders with the atrocious value line in Compaq. Before that merger I would not have even recommended them for the year and a half that I did in my review.

Lastly, the t61 and the v1js should be very close to their predecessors in dimensions and relative performance so I don't believe those rankings should change when they are released. But please do wait for those Santa Rosa releases, Core 2 Duo is crippled (almost) by the 667MHz FSB, the 800 should see the phenomenal performances that we have witnessed on their desktop counterparts. I understand if you need a computer NOW, but if at all possible wait it out, you won't be sorry!

 

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3590&review=Asus+V2Je

V2Je Weight: 5.1lbs with 6 cell and 5.4lbs with 9 cells
V2Je Dimensions: 13.5” length x 10.7” width x 1.3”/1.5” height (front/back).

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3708&review=ThinkPad+T61

T61 Weight: 5.1lbs with 6 cell
T61 Dimensions: 13.2" length x 9.3" width x 1.09"/1.26" height (front/back)

 

So where would the Compal IFL90 fall in that lineup?

 

The Compal IFL90 is not meant to be a business machine. However, it'll definitely be more powerful than the T61p, and will be on-par with the V1Jp Santa Rosa refresh when the V1 is updated with the 8600M GT next month.

The IFL90 is also a great value. It has a 3-year warranty, and you can choose the parts yourself.

 

Wow..it certainly has a nice set of misc. features for a nonbusiness machine.

Thanks.

 

Yeah, I totally agree. It's on the heavy side for a 15.4" laptop, at nearly 7 pounds with the 9-cell battery, but it is equippable with Robson turbomemory, the latest Core 2 Duo processors, bluetooth, N-wireless, Vista Business, the DX10 Geforce 8600M GT, AND tops that off with a battery life of over 3.5 hours.

I'm sure you've seen this already -

http://www.powernotebooks.com/specs...urce=nbr&utm_medium=compal&utm_content=thread

 

I would not buy any notebook with turbo memory until after it comes out and has been reviewed. Although it sounds like a great idea I have heard it is giving manufacturers nothing but trouble. Of course it has only been out (technically speaking) for 11 days, which equates to about 5 or 6 months at the most in the company's hands, so they really haven't had time to sink their teeth into it what with all of the other features of SR.

 

At the request of the OP, I have added a third option: the HP Compaq 8510p, the new Santa Rosa update of the HP nc8430

 

Thank you AuroraS

 

I'd hope by the time the V1 comes out, someone will have tested turbo memory with some positive results.....well...hopefully =p

As far as the V1 goes, does anyone know if it'll use the 8600M GT, or stick with an ATI card again? (if it uses the 8600M GT, just how will it differ from the VX2, other than the vroom vroom startup sounds and that wheel under the base?)

 

Well the VX2 is a "Luxury Laptop" with leather accents a nice presentation, case etc. It would basically be the difference in buying a Honda with a 3.5 liter engine and buying a Benz with a 3.5 liter engine. Same power, one just has a premium for its creature comforts. (Those are the most expensive of the comforts)

 

True, but in the case of the Benz vs Honda (or rather the Lambo vs a Honda), those "luxuries" actually do things besides provide looks and a brand label--such as comfort, ease of use, pleasure and enjoyment, safety....mostly.

In the case of VX2 vs V1..isn't it just purely aesthetics? I guess the nearly 2x price just seems a bit extreme to me (i'm poor!)

So I just found out that the HP 8510p won't have an expresscard slot and it'll only have the HD2600, not the XT version , and no glossy screen. I guess this pretty much narrows my choices among these 3 to the V1 only...

Any other laptops out there that are well..almost exactly the same as the V1 but not the V1 (in case it doesn't come out fast enough this summer)?

 

The Lenovo Thinkpad T61P may actually come out later during the summer. That'll probably be a 15.4" laptop with a Geforce 8600M GT-comparable workstation graphics card. I realize it's in the T61 series, but it'll be a big step forwards.

I really can't think of any other 15.4" laptop that could have an HD 2600XT or 8600M GT that has been announced yet. Look for LG's refresh of the S1; the old S1 had an X1600, it's reasonable to assume the new one will have the HD 2600XT or 8600M GT. There's the G1S, but that's a gaming machine ... There's the C90S, but that's big and has terrible battery life ...

 

Apparently LG announced a refresh of the S1 in Korea, though I have no idea of the specs.

 

Hrm, according to the chart from this article, the FX 570M of the T61p is based off the 8400M, not the 8600M...

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2984

Can anyone confirm? NVidia's page just lists them all completely separately without any real comparison.

 

Can you post the link where you saw the T61p being equipped with the FX instead of the Quadro-type card? Because the T61's Quadro NVS 140M is based off the 8400M. The T61p is supposed to be more powerful graphics-wise, it would make no sense to put something that resembles an NVS 140M in power.

 

Well the Fx is a Quadro type card - Quadro FX 570M.
Mostly I got the impression the t61p will carry that card from this thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=122152

There are a few links in it pointing to some sites with that listed as the gpu.

 

All signs point to being based off the 8600M, here's why I think that's the case -

1. Logic - a T61p will not equally powerful graphics-wise as a T61
2. Specs - 256 MB of 128-bit memory sounds awfully close to an 8600M GS. Although the 8400M GT also has a 128-bit memory bus, the 8400M GT has a memory bandwidth of 19.2 Gb/s, but the 8600M GS, 8600M GT, and FX 570M all have a memory bandwidth of 22.4 Gb/s.
3. Other cards - the FX 350M and FX 360M both have 64-bit buses, which the 8400M G and GS series share.

This is purely academic speculation by me, but it just doesn't seem possible that the FX 570M is based off the 8400M.

 

what does number 2 have to do with anything?

 

It proves the FX 570M can't be based off the 8400M GT, which also has a 128-bit bus, but whose memory runs slower than the 8600M series. By process of elimination, then, it should be based off the 8600M series.

 

Blech, either way I'd take a 8600M GT or a x2600XT over that anyday =p

 

I always have the problem of shopping for a notebook right at the point where the graphics companies are switching the top dog position. Last time I got the Radeon 9700 right before the GeForce Go 6800 came out. This time I think I am getting an 8600M GT right before the x2600 comes out (which is supposedly vastly better by early estimates.)

 

I'm still hoping the V1 will come with the x2600XT (the old V1 used ATI after all), even though an early review claimed it would use the 8600M GT.

I still haven't found a single notebook confirmed to use the x2600 XT though...even the HP 8510p simply says "x2600". Ah well.