UNDER-clocking gtx260m safely - by how much?

Hi guys,


it seems that everyone is talking about about overclocking GPU a lot, but what about under-clocking? I have Asus G51Vx-x3a (Windows 7 64-bit) from new egg. It seems like the battery is a weak point of this PC for obvious reasons.

I have tried to run this laptop with:
- powermizer ON,
- WiFi On,
- screen brightness at 5% (still visible in my room),
- browsing and switching pages every 5-10 minutes,
- Hard drive always On

and I got full 2 hours 40 minutes, unlike with out-of-the box setup battery runtime reported (1.5 hours).

Now the PROBLEM: I have read in this thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=401345

that ratio of Core:Shaders for gtx260m should be 1:2.5, but when I checked powermizer maximum powersaving settings I saw that Core was 200 MHz and Shader was 400 MHz (using GPU-Z). This is 1:2 ratio though.

So,
1) Will it be safe to force this ratio manually with nTune? This way I can set these frequencies while on battery and get at least 2.5 hours, which is pretty good in my opinion.

2) Also, the memory with powermizer max power saving was 119.6 MHz. How can such frequency be set in nTune?

3) Is it possible to go even lower? Did anyone try?


Maybe GPU-Z does not report frequencies correctly for the powermizer maximum power save mode and thus the ratio is 1:2?


Thank you!

 

It couold be possible to go lower, but i dont see the need too with your amazing battery life. I mean i believe you could go lower, but i dont know if anyone has. Hope you get the answers!! Man i wish my powermizer would go to 200mhz and 400mhz. Mine only downclocks to the 383,301 etc. Drives me nuts cause ive tried so many drivers . Good luck and you should get more input.

 

Hi bobbyp, I'm using Dox drivers version 195.62 currently, but all previous drivers (from asus and nvidia) also underclocked to these levels through built-in Powermizer feature. For the other drivers I had to enable powermizer through registry.

Are you sure that your videocard doesn't downclock the same way? It takes a little time for it to happen. While running GPU-Z I observed the following levels of down-clock:

CPU:Mem:Shader
1) 500 : 799 : 1250
2) 383.3 : 300.9 : 766.7
3) 275 : 300.9 : 550
4) 200 : 119.6 : 400

It takes around 20 seconds or so to see card jump from one level to the next.

Maybe you just did not wait long enough? I mean, there is no way I got some "miracle card", other 260's should do the same thing, right?


Anyway, I still wondering if Powermizer changes frequencies in some other way (not like nLite or Rivatuner software) which allows to use a different ratio for Core:Shaders.

Basically, I've read somewhere that a guy butched up his video card because of improper under-clock, so I'm thinking whether I should try forcing those frequencies manually/through software or not. I know it sounds strange "killing by down-clocking", but nevertheless...

 

Also, I'm trying to find this information for the following reason: while on battery, if something causes GPU to throttle up to 500:799:1250, then it takes around 1 minute to get back to the lowest power mode, and it needlessly takes battery power. During that 1 minute the card takes probably like x3 times more power.

If I would know that it is safe to set those frequencies with nTune, then I could force the card to not throttle up at all.

 

Hey guys, this is related:
I've been endlessly frustrated with nvidia drivers not clocking down correctly on battery and clocking up at the slightest demand for 3D. As such, I've been stuck with 186.03 since... forever. I just downloaded 197.13 yesterday, and I thought it was just like all the other releases from 18x.xx to 19x.xx but I think the thing locks itself in 2D mode on battery. I didn't notice any performance difference (didn't benchmark) but I have CUDA 3.0 and OpenCL now. I recommend it.
64bit here: http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/drivers/win7x64/197.13/disclaimer

 

It just started on windows 7 a while back and never knew why it did it. Vista it was perfect but from windows 7 it just kinda messed up. I will sit with nothing up watching the clocks and temperature lol. No lie. It just jumps from full clocks to the 367 2d clock. I have been tempted to even reformat also

 

Ok. My impatience finally took over and I decided to force low frequencies.

I've first set 200:120:400 in nTune, but it did not let me apply those frequencies and said that they were invalid. Apparently nTune won't let you set the wrong frequencies.

Then I set Core=200, Shader=400, and didn't touch the memory. nTune let me apply those changes. I started lowering the memory and found out that the lowest frequency for the memory can be set to 199MHz.

Then I got excited and just moved all sliders to their lowest possible positions (I can never stop lol). I set frequencies 125:199:312 respecively. nTune let me apply those frequencies, BUT as soon as I've launchecd GPU-Z my screen went crazy and started blinking with random colors. 4-seconds power button reflex immediately kicked in.


Then I booted pc again. Thankfully it didn't die. I thought that if core:shader ratio of 1:2 was working before, then that's what I should do, so I set the following frequencies and verified that they work:

//============
Core: 156 MHz
Memory: 199 MHz
Shader: 312 MHz
//============

312 MHz for shader is the lowest that a slider should go, so I set core to be half of that and memory to the lowest slider value of 199 MHz.

//=================================================

Now there's is another problem that I've noticed. If you set the above frequencies and wait for the powermizer to kick in, then you will notice that powermizer will actually raise the frequencies from 156:199:312 to 383:300:766, then it will go a level lower and will do so until it reaches the max power saving level.

So it seems like no matter what frequencies you set, the Powermizer will always bring them to some bios-hardcoded levels step by step.


Therefore, I see two solutions:

1) Disable powermizer altogether and manually force frequencies while on battery, or
2) Somehow lock the powermizer in its lowest power mode while on battery.

dtdood said that the new driver from laptopvideo2go seems to be capable of doing the #2 above, so I will have to try those drivers sometimes later.

 

I just found out how to force powermizer into a specific power saving mode.

I wanted powermizer to be ON with AC and throttle from in a normal was, so my card will chill when I'm not playing games, and I wanted powermized in lowest possible power mode while on battery, so here's what I did:

NOTE: I AM NOT LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGE THE FOLLOWING GUIDE MIGHT DO TO YOUR CAT, WIFE, COMPUTER, OR ANYTHING ELSE!!!

This involves editing the registry:
1. In registry navigate to HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\***
2. instead of *** in the path find the branch that has a lot of keys in it.
3. If you have powermizer enabled, you should find the famous 4 powermizer registry keys:
PerfLevelSrc - I set this to 2233 in hex, adaptive freq. on AC and preset freq. on batt.
PowerMizerEnable - I set this to 1 in hex
PowerMizerLevel - I set this to 3 in hex, always low power on battery
PowerMizerLevelAC - Iset this to 1 in hex, adaptive freq. on AC

4. Reboot

If you want lowest power mode on battery and highest power mode on AC, then change the "PerfLevelSrc" above to 2222 in hex. Other settings should be the same.

Now, you might have heard about PowermizerSwitch program posted in this forum and you might wonder if it does the same thing. PowermizerSwitch does not let you force video card to lowest power mode on battery. Furthermore, if you will run PowermizerSwitch then:

PerfLevelSrc - will be set to either 3333, or 2222, or 3322 depending on preferences
PowerMizerEnable - will be set to 0
PowerMizerLevel - will be set to 0
PowermizerLevel - will be set to 0

Finally, if you don't have powermizer enabled at all, then follow the guide for PowermizerSwitch program to enable it and then change other keys as you like.

 

Hey premudriy,

Thanks for posting that guide. I was going to try following it on my G51Jx-A1 (same sys except GTS360M instead and only 1 HDD but more ram slots) but I wasn't able to find the "PowerMizerEnable" key anywhere in my registry nor was I able to find any PowerMizer setting in the nVidia Control Panel. I thought maybe with the move to Windows 7 it was built into the OS since I haven't seen 'PowerMizer' anywhere. I thought maybe you were using XP, but I see in your first post that you are using Win7 x64 as I am. It could be though that nVidia hasn't released a driver that lets the GTS360M use that feature yet - or possibly not released one that lets you modify how it operates.

So I wanted to ask, where is it that you Enable/Disable PM without using the registry so I can enable it and add those keys (after which I'll mod them). I have found a bunch of different entries under Video and I can't tell where to insert and what sorts of values to give (DWord, etc...) so that's my planned first step in getting it done.

Thanks a lot,
Peter

 

Hi, CCz_Cataphract. It is true, if you just installed the official nVidia drivers in Windows 7, then you won't have Powermizer enabled and you won't be able to find those registry keys. I'm not sure why nVidia driver for Windows 7 doesn't have it enabled by default. But you can enable it quite easily. I also have Windows 7 (64-bit) and the above guide was for windows 7 as well.

So, there is a little program, called PowermizerSwitch, which I mentioned in my previous post. Once you run the PowermizerSwitch it will determine that the registry keys mentioned in my guide are missing and the program will prompt you to apply a fix, which basically adds those registry entries.

Here is the link to this program:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=273276

Once the program will apply the fix, you will be able to find and modify the registry keys mentioned in my previous post.

Also, you can use PowermizerSwitch to cycle between 3 modes:

-powermizer ON for battery and AC
-powermizer OFF for batter and AC
-powermizer ON for battery, but OFF for AC



But as I said, with that program you still won't be able to force the lowest power saving mode of Powermizer. This means that powermizer will work and it will throttle from highest to lowest frequency, but my goal was to "lock" the powermizer to its lowest setting (200 MHz core, 119.6 MHz RAM, 400 MHz Shader). This goal can be accompished with my little guide in previous post.

So, all you need to do is download the PowermizerSwitch from the link above and then proceed to modifying those registry keys per your preferences.

 

CCz_Cataphract, you might also want to look at this link:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=261929

It clearly explains where those entries should be in the registry. There are many folders (keys) in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\ which look like bunch of numbers, but only one corresponds to your video card. Those sets of numbers are different for each user and once you enable Powermizer you must go into each of those branches, expand it and click on folder (key) "0000". Then look on the right side and you should see significantly more entries in the proper branch that corresponds to your video card.

 

Thanks very much premudriy . I used PowerMizerSwitch to automatically add the keys, and then edited them from there.

I have noticed in using your exact settings from editted guidepost that it would lock the settings @ 135/270/135 (Core/Shaders/Mem) on my GTS360M G51Jx while on battery - except when running a movie in WMP which bumps it up to 2D Application clocks. I've been trying to check if games are playing at the lower setting, but I haven't been able to see the clock while running a game (no games that run in 'Windowed Mode').

Is this the behaviour you observed as well?

Thanks,
Peter

 

Interesting observation, CCz_Cataphract. Indeed the frequency jumps up when playing videos. I've tried different player (KMPlayer) and in both cases frequency went up to 383.3:766.7:300.9 correspondingly for core:shader:memory (sceenshots 1&2).

Also, in case you didn't know, you can move the mouse anywhere on the graph of the temperature in GPU-Z to find a frequency at that moment in time (see screenshot 1). And you can also click on the frequency in MHz to to display either Max, Min, Average, or current frequency (highlighted in blue in screenshot 2).

Then I've tried playing a game and the frequency stayed the same, i.e. at the minimum (see screenshot 3). I have also tried running the FurMark and still the frequencies didn't go up (see screenshot 4).

So, it seems like playing videos is the only thing that will bump up the frequency, though still not to its max at least in my case.

 

BTW, I've just noticed that your video card throttles to even lower frequencies than mine, which is really cool. I wonder how long your battery will last as opposed to my results with lowest settings. See if you can do such a benchmark.

 

Yes, I have been getting the current frequencies via CPU-Z's Graphics Tab. I installed GPU-Z awhile ago but haven't used it outside of one or two tests for my G51Jx review when I bought it back at the beginning of February. I will give GPU-Z a try as well, I like the fact it logs things on screen like that, but I suspect m result would be identical to yours.

From what I've seen though Mass Effect also does not bump the clocks - but it seemed pretty smooth in normal not very intense gameplay so that's a plus.

I noticed my clocks were a fair bit lower than yours when I posted them - it's interesting as well since most of them at full are higher than yours at full - so it might be that the GTS360M does at least go slower and with a lower power requirement than the GTX260M at the minimum - even if the GTX260M still wins in raw power on most older benchmarks.

I wonder, if we overclock the GPU manually will that override these PowerMizer settings? I'm assuming so - and if so that gives us a good method to override these settings in the rare cases that we want to game at full blast while on battery (even if it it's only 20 minutes, I could see it being fun to show someone something for example).

I may try such a benchmark, will have to think about it a bit more to get a fairly consistent drain while still using my notebook and not watching a video.

Peter

 

Another small detail: playing videos online, even HD ones like on Hulu.com will not bump up the frequency of the GPU, which is a good thing.

P.S.: Now I also wonder how I can lock the CPU in its lowest power mode as well Mine runs at 800 MHz in lowest setting. I can set it manually to 800 MHz in Linux using cpufreq, but how do I do this in Windows? Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Bleh - Half finish post got posted when trying to switch windows:

Besides setting the clock multiplier to minimum 7x and set for very low Max and Minimum processor states in Power4Gear? Those certainly do disable Turbo Boost (anything under 13x multiplier does that) and prevent the CPU level from clocking up. I think that's what you want, though it's late and I don't recall exactly what Mhz rating a 7x multiplier gives off hand.

Peter

 

You can use SetFSB to underclock the FSB (and hence CPU and RAM), and then in the advanced dialog of Power Options in Windows 7 you can set the processor maximum frequency to 50% and it'll never go over 6x. For example, while on battery I tell SetFSB to lower my FSB to under 200MHz (vs 266MHz) and with the power saver thing from windows it never goes above like 1200MHz at 6x, and at 3x it's sitting at ~600MHz. Another 10-20 minutes of PDF viewing.

 

Hey dtd00d, thanks for posting. Your way is very true for the CPU on the G51Vx-x3a that the OP has. I thought he had a G51J for some reason, same G5X260M GPU but has the i7 as my G51Jx does. No such luck for my i7 though, no SetFSB there. But the process I mentioned works for me, and the process you set forth will work for him .

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

I had no idea what I was talking about and just assumed he had a Core 2 instead of an i7. I guess I should read next time, lest I not be so lucky >.<

Happy underclocking,
--Joe

PS: I envy your 8 threads.

 

Thanks a lot to all of you, guys, for your great help!

LOL. I should have called this thread "How to get the most out of your battery" because now it involves CPU underclocking as well

I will try SetFSB - never used it before. Can you, guys, tell me what Clock Generator I should use for G51Vx-X3A? My chipset is ICH9-M.

 

Haha best of luck with everything

I have a G50vt-X1 with an ICH9 and my clock generator is ICS9LPR604ALGF. Yours might be different but since we have the same chipset perhaps there's a similarity? I think the G51VX is just a 260M in a G50v chassis.

 

Specified generator is working for my mobo. Thank you, again!

 

Ah sorry about that. Check out this thread, maybe it'll help more than me: http://www.xoticpcforums.com/showthread.php?t=4920

 

I actually wrote that it IS working for me.

 

Oh. I can't read. Crap. lol well happy OCing then!

 

WARNING!!!:

This trick with PowerMizer does not work with driver 197.16. Setting PowerMizerLevelAC = 0x00000001 (adaptive throttling) causes BSOD on boot. I submitted a bug to nVidia.

If you set the registry key above and now unable to boot then do the following:

1. Boot into safe mode.
2. User DriverSweeper to remove nVidia Display driver
3. Reboot into normal mode
4. Uninstall nVidia drivers from normal Add/Remove Programs (Programs and Features) dialog.
5. Install previous driver version or re-install 197.16, but don't use PowerMizer at this time.

 

Powermizer works as I'd expect it to in 197.16, no regediting. That's actually why I updated from 185.85dox (would constantly be 500/1250/800 and 10C hotter @idle). Yes it goes up to 3d game clocks intermittently and then down to 383/766/300 to 200/400/120, similar thing on battery but the max is 383/766/300 (i.e. the 3d game clock profile is not used)

The only gripe I have is the threshhold at which it jumps up to 3d game clocks (twice while I was typing this post !!?), but I don't think any of these registry settings deals with that...

Turning off all the Win7 Aero crap stops the clock-up. But looks uuuuuugly.

I could *underclock* the 3d game clock in 195.62 to 440/1100/750, and then use the osbootpf.nsu profile to auto-overclock based on load up to 560/1400/950. But since update to 197.16 cannot underclock 3d game below 500/1250/800 - but overclock up to 560/1400/950 still OK.

FYI due to lame way fan delays spinning up until it's already toasty - GPU only 1 or 2C hotter with the >10% overclock.

 

Hey, bennyg, are you saying that powermizer was enabled in 197.16 by default right after you installed the driver? No registry tweaks were needed?