C90 vs G1s

So i've been looking at both. (My overall price max is around $2000 at the moment)

I like some of the features of each laptop better, for instance the look and custamizability (is that a word? ) of the c90 (+TV Tuner, Finger Print Reader, 2.0 Web Camera, etc) while i like the longer battery length of the G1s, semi-like its style, etc. (Overall there are reasons to like each laptop, would take too long to list)


Each laptop seems to have its benefits.

Basically to sum up my questions:

1. Performance wise what is the difference between the C90 and the G1s?

2. Which is more cost and time affective?

3. Milestone has the c90 listed with the 8600GT (not 8600M? is that just a typo) with 512mb vs the G1s w/ the 8600M GT 256mb, which graphics card is better (a semi-rhetorical question, more for conformation)?

4. G1s Santa Rosa Laptop core 2 duo vs C90 Conroe PC Dual Core. Which one is better (performs better/faster, excluding battery life as a factor)

5. And most importantly which laptop is the better route?

6. Portability of each laptop? [Considering: Weight (i know with HD CPU etc it'll be heavier), battery (is it upgradeable), dimensions with all the extra fans (besides 15.4"), etc]

Thanks for your responses

Edit: Also note that I do realize that neither of these laptops are officially out yet.
Also note that I chose these two because they are both being considered "gamer oriented" laptops.

 

2. Building the C90 should not be too hard. If you want to save some money you can buy the other parts like CPU, Ram and hard disk from other places since milestonepc is not the cheapest for these parts. I think if you know what you are doing the C90 will be more cost affective. The G1s ofcourse takes no time to build....

3. I think it is a 8600M GT for both. The 512MB version will be slightly faster for futuer games but the effect is not that great.

4. The Desktop CPU is faster but ofcourse also gets hotter. You said exclude battery life so I will just mention that I expect that the cooling of the C90 will require the fans of the C90 to be run more and possible louder then the G1s.

5. Better route depends on you. If you are confident that you can build the C90 yourself then it is a good deal. The G1s is more of a laptop to take around once in a while where as the C90 is more of a compact desktop with build in LCD screen and a small battery.

 

thanks, lots of good insight, editing portability in as a factor (i'm going to be off at college)

i've built a couple pc's before, so building isn't an issue

 

1 - The current C90 comes with a 8600GT MXM, so I think the GPU performance is almost equal.As for the CPU performance, throw in an E6400 and I don't think any mobile GPU would match it's power.However, the C90 will be upgraded with a high-end 8800/8900 GPU.So the performance of C90 can be improved greatly.

2 - Well, you are not going to spend any time, on the G1s assembly, but I think you will have to spend 3-4 hours to make sure you have done everything right on the first assembly.

6 - I think their weight is equal. [correct me if I'm wrong]

 

If you haven't already, the Compal IFL90 is another great option.

 

This might help your 256mb vs. 512mb question: http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=33

So memory-intensive games like FEAR (and others in the future, of course), will really benefit from the extra space.

 

i would need to know more information about it, from what i've seen i'm not sure

 

Have you built laptops before though? Huge difference there. Things have to go in exactly the right place and also in order (unless you want to take it out everytime you put a new part in). It will take about twice the time (including testing connections and making sure parts are snug and airways are open) to put together the laptop as it would an average desktop. You also have to be pretty familiar with copper-pipe cooling systems (though usually they are one piece assemblies nowadays).

As for your question. Asus has done this C90 thing before, with the Z series a couple years back. I got one. It is really powerful and the upgradability is nice, but the heat handling (because really even with 3 big fans, a laptop isn't made to handle 90+ C temps, like mine has forever). The screen frame will probably crack, it will fry some memory and expect to RMA it at least twice for stuff like that. I'm sure they think they have finally solved the puzzle, but it is simply impossible with current technology to load up a 15 inch laptop with a desktop processor, mid-high end graphics card and quick RAM and not have serious heat issues. I found all of the tricks they did to keep the heat down on mine (severely underclocked the GPU, undervolted the processor ALOT [for an AMD], big fans that blow air everywhere, and I know they are just doing this same junk again).

I have literally used my computer to boil water before (more proof of concept than convenience).

Wait for the C90 to be out for about 6 months and see if these issues do, as I suspect they will, show up.

 

Wow alex, lol.

Ive seen pictures of the c90 and i have to agree with you. I bet they undervolted everything and underclocked the gfx card... + its got 4 MAJOR fans, i mean for a laptop thoes are enormous . From what i have observed i can't come to any other conclusion: the c90 isnt gonna be efficient. And in the laptop market...its all about efficiency. Balancing: power-cooling-battery life-portability/weight. Their all intertwined. If they come out on top i'd be surprised and happy for 'em but my guess is they won't. We'll just have to wait and see...

 

I'm confused, the C90 uses desktop processors that have FSB of 1066MHz but what's the point of having a FSB of 1066MHz if it can't take in desktop RAM?

 

because it sounds better to say you have a conroe in your laptop than just a vanilla "Merom."

Also, 1066/2 (the speed the ram should be to max it out) is 533. So laptop RAM will suffice.

 

so I should just get 533MHz? Why not 667MHz?

 

I have a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 HT in my notebook and, yes, it is big and obnoxiously LOUD but it runs surprisingly cool (I guess that's why the fans are so loud). According to Intel's specs, a 3.2GHz P4 operates at approximately 68W; a Conroe 2.4GHz E6600 operates at 66W. The whole point of having lower clock speeds is to also have lower energy consumption (i.e. heat).

Honestly, I doubt that the C90 is going to be that bad. Cracked screen frames, fried memory? Please, let's just wait until this notebook actually shows up before making judgements. And, with all due respect, if people want to speculate and make predictions, let's see some facts and numbers, not just opinions.

 

I own Asus first attempt at the C90. 15 inch fully customizable screen and all. Desktop processor, mid-high range graphics card, very good parts. The ventilation system looks very similar to the C90. Mine runs ludicrously hot (over 100C). My screen frame is cracked and I have friend 4 sticks of memory (RMAed by Asus, which was nice). I don't expect the C90 to be that bad, but I don't expect it to be good.I would say it will run in the mid-high 80s possibly into the 90s while gaming. I just think this whole desktop parts in a <17" laptop thing is at least a generation or two away from real fruition. In order for it to work it would have to be very thick, and probably ugly, or have turbine fans running at bandsaw sound levels to keep it cool enough to last for a period of more than 2-2.5 years.
I'm not coming up with these scenarios out of thin air, I am basing them on my past experience. You either have a laptop, or you have a small form factor desktop that is loud and never leaves your house, an attempt to compromise, I don't believe, will happen with the currently available parts.

P.S for a similarly sized and a speced G1, but with a Merom processor (35W), the temps are around 65-75.

 

so in conclusion which laptop should I choose? considering i have no idea how to upgrade a notebook, the best I can do is to go to a specialist

 

Honestly, I don't think anyone can say. I think it'd be best for you and the rest of us if we read the reviews first. As of now, I'd probably say the G1S because it's more portable, but the C90 I think, is definitely more powerful.

 

it is definitely true that no one will know until they come out and get put through the paces

 

To Alex

They were using P4 processor in the Z series. you cant compare P4 and Core 2 Duo. Pentium 4 cpus are one of the hottest(literally) cpu ever produced. Pretty much all the attempts end miserably. Allienware tried it, HP tried it. They all failed. My friend has one of those alienware laptop, that is noisy and gets so hot that it has to shut itself down. However, Core 2 Duo is much cooler than a P4. They have come a long way from few years ago. I believe they should already figured out what to do with the heat issues. But I could be wrong, we just have to wait and see before reaching a conclusion.

SamsungFTW, to ur question. Even a 1066 MHz wont fully utilize DDR2-800 memory,which is the mainstream now. As intel says when they release santa rosa, that the performance increase isnt worth it to put in DDR2-800. Desktop rams simplely creat too much heat.

 

ya i think i've definitely eliminated the c90, the portability of it doesn't seem promising. on the other hand i've been taking a closer look at the IFL90 and that is looking more and more like a laptop I would enjoy (when it comes out)

I'm hoping reviews will come out when the G1s finally ships

 

so am I, I haven`t seen the c90 so why do you say is not portable? is it 17"

 

no it's not a 17", it's a 15.4". The reason he says it lacks portability is that it has the 4 fans in the back and that makes it difficult to find a case for it. In addition to that it weighs 6.8lbs which isn't that much to me but maybe he has to travel a lot or something so that might not be ideal for him.

 

My Z has an Athlon 64 3700+. It is still no Core 2 Duo, but the Z series has supported almost all of the desktop chips of the past 2-3 years.

 

so what does that mean....the fans stick out of the back ??

 

The C90s is not meant to be a portable notebook in the sense it can go without an outlet. It is a DTR notebook using desktop chipset. IMO most people buying notebooks around these forum should get the G1s when they compare the C90. The point of the C90 is to have a movable desktop that you can plug up when you go somewhere. It wont last without an outlet. As for the heat issue, im going to give my opinon and say it wont be that bad as people say. Sound issue might be equal or a little louder then the G1s, but there two things people need to realize. C90s meant for people with access to outlets always, G1s can be without one for awhile and is actually mobile.

Also laptop weight shouldnt really be a problem for people 7-10pounds is not that heavy, if it is a good workout for you

 

C90 is still mobile. It weighs less than 7 pounds and actually the the g1s battery life doesn't blow away the c90s, g1 will probably at most get an 1:15 more and at least a 35-40 more battery life, so its not the g1 is blowing away the c90 in terms of battery life. Also once the 8800m comes out even the gtx which tops out at 25 watts it wont be a drastic hit on the battery life and will then far outperform the g1s tho some might argue that g1s has the looks though I'm a guy who likes the simple beauty so c90 is great for me.

 

C2D are really cool running chips IMO so I have faith in the C90 and all of its future models.

I dont think they would be releasing a product thats going to bomb since they have past experience to go off of.

 

But he's right, you know. A laptop is meant to be mobile. This is just so you can carry the C90 from one place to another. Here's to hoping there's a similarly priced laptop (aka around $1500) that comes out this summer with an 8800M inside of it with a better battery.

I just wished ASUS would offer bigger batteries for the C90. Why can't they bust out the 8, 9, or even 12-cell batteries?

 

just wait,there will be one soon..

 

First of all it is a desktop replacement notebook, so I don't understand why people are questioning its mobility. Its like complaining that a 13 inch laptop cant run high end games. What did you expect about mobility when it has a desktop processor with significant overclocking abilities? Secondly, it it still very mobile for what your getting your getting a laptop that is a little under 7 pounds, and has a battery life of 1.5 to potentially 2.5 hours which is not bad at all especially if you factor in that battery life with an 8800m which will be my case. And any competitor to the c90 isnt on the horizon unless u count the c91? Only current competitors are the clevo d900c which for similar spec (i have done exact same setup) is $1200 more for a 17 inch, sli compatible with a 7950gtx. The clevo m570 ru is also a competitor because it can take the 8800m but it uses santa rosa and is another 17 inch so u can still the price to be $600-$1000 more. I figure some of you need a laptop that can run for 5-6 hours in case u get lost in the woods and have no power outlet?

 

Actually, I heard that the battery on the C90 is from 15 minutes - 80 minutes (on power saver mode). I don't really know how'd you get 2.5 hours on it, but I guess we'll have to wait for it to be said later.

I'm just personally questioning it because I'm a college kid, and wonder if it's worth going to 8800m for a small battery life. If it plays Crysis at high settings, then I'll very likely buy one anyway, though.

 

I don't see how hard it is to find a power outlet. You can buy car adapters and practically never run off battery. Ok I'm exagerrating but still not hard to find outlets.

 

Ya even though I go 95% plugged in, that 2 hours of battery life is quite valuable to me
it means a quick email check
Not that the c90 wouldnt be better for those 95% than what I have

But then id need another machine to fill in the 5%

 

Are you guys sure that the 8800M will fit in the C90S? I know that the C90S uses MXM II but which version is the 8800M? I know the C90S can handle it as far as thermals go because it can handle any MXM II GPU up to 25 watts and the 8800M is 22W but what about the size of the GPU?

 

No one knows for sure but I have read in other threads that asus has confirmed that c90 will be upgradeable to all 8m series. I've tried finding a source that confirmed that but have found none. Though like earlier stated that asus planned to have 5 cards for the c90 by January 2008 it seems fiitting that these fit. First of all since it is 22-25 watts nvidia must have made this mxm2 compatible or else they would have made it mxm 3 and made the cards more powerful. It seems odd that they make this 22-25 watts but then not have it be mxm2.

 

You can always wait a month and find out in that allotted time. The 8800M won't be out until August at the latest (I believe), so I'd rather buy my laptop with that then have to worry about it later.

 

No I've read that people who were at computex with computers with the 8800m (thats how the inquirer found about it) had the little card with the info about the comp and it says the 8800m is scheduled for late july. If this is true and nvidia keeps the schedule on time this means we just wait another month then the rest of the c90 users for a much better card.

 

Well, was there any report for a bigger cell battery for the C90? Or is it just right to carry multiple batteries in case? This laptop is obviously not meant for those wanting big batteries, but having the options open would really boost this laptop in the coming months.

 

I know anyone's post will just be pure speculation, but, how much more expensive do you think the 8800M will be?

 

Estimated 500$ card much like the desktops price.

But thats just a guess, nobody can say for sure.
Depending on what kind of scores it turns out if the performance is close to the desktop version tho it may be worth it, this thing at that point could be a desktop replacment.

It would look strange to have a small notebook hooked to my 37" screen and have my big desktop sitting in the corner collecting dust.

 

It makes me wonder how much the 8600M GT costs at GenTechPC right now. If it won't be a big jump, I'd definitely grab it.

 

Id think you can get the C90 with the 8800 in it here in a few months, if you buy it all in one as a barebone it should save you some money.

 

8800 for $500? don't think that expensive,my speculation is that it will cost at a maximum of $400,since it can be bought separately.

 

Hey,

At this moment, I dont know if I should choose the g1s or the c90. I can buy the c90 with this battery:11.1V 4800mAh A32-C9...
Will it last 2hours -without playing ofcourse-?

I just need a laptop to go to college, so I probably will move it between my house and where I study. I want to use it as long as possible and an upgradeable, cheaper laptop as the c90 seems to be, now look more appealant to me.
If you guys can tell me that this c90 is good quality and it doesnt have heat issues, and will rest minimum 1.5 hours of batterylife, I think c90 is the best choice...

(c90 will have these specs

Processor & Cache Memory : Intel Conroe Core2 duo (Core2Duo S775 Fsb1066 4MB l2 )
Chipset : Intel 945G+ICH7
Operation System :
Main Memory : 2*SODIMMDDRII6(Max.3GB)
Display Size : 15,4"CSWSXGA+(1680x1050)
Video Graphics & Memory : NVIDIAGEforce 8600M GT 256MB (TC 1GB with 2GB memory)
Hard Disk : 2,5" 9,5mm SATA5400RPM
Optical Drive : 5,25" 12,7mm 8x/6x,2,4x/2,4x DVD Super Multi
Fax/Modem/LAN/WLAN : V,92MDC/GL/802,11aBGN/BT/TPM
Video Camera : 2.0 MP Swivel+mic
Interfaces : 3*USB2/E-SATA/VGA/TVO/HDMI/1394/SPDIF/Mic-in/4-in-1CR/Xpress/Finger print
KeyBoard Layout : C90SKB-BE: 04GNMA1KBE00 with vista key
Battery Pack & Life : 11.1V 4800mAh A32-C9 NEW MODEL
AC Adapter : 19V 4,73A 90W
Dimension & Weight : 367x268x34 mm 3,1Kg
Supplied Accessories : Bag & USB mouse with connector from USB to PS2, Soft Pouche

heelp me

 

If your comparing c90 to g1 in terms of portabiity, they weigh the same and c90 actually has slimmer dimensions. If you mean both than its your own preference. Some people it is too heavy while I take mine to campus everyday with other books and am fine.

 

Do you have a c90? Is it just because of the cpu that the price is lower?

 

The C90 uses a desktop cpu which is cheaper and more powerful that most, if not all, notebook cpu's, and will be for some time. Both The Forerunner and I have C90s.

 

CPU price on C90S is one of Asus's marketing campaign:

 

thanks for the explanation, but can I have some info about batterylife? :s

thanks

 

I get about 90 min. of battery life, but you could probably add another 15 min. or so if you play around with some of the power-saving options.

 

So you can still get 90 min even if you play? Good enough for me! Thanks for response!