not Mac bashing but wow...

Please Please don't take this as mac bashing because it isnt. But I just configured a MBP 17in to the same specs as my dell and it came out to $3800+ vs $1300 for my dell. Now this was without any software or any real options, as well as it had 2GB of ram to my 3GB. Before you bash my dell its construction is exactly that of a tank, and Ive had zero issues with it. Now without all the software how is this justified? Dont say OSX as Ive played with my wife's MB from work and its nothing special, as well as it crashes a decent amount (kinda reminds me of vista pre SP1). Now I dont hate Mac products or anything but what is it that gets people spending ~ 3 times as much for a Mac?

 

They like to have the apple on their notebook.

 

They pay premium for having the Apple brand; the logo on it. And ofcourse, the OSX..

 

I love how people think that including the disclaimer somehow makes it true.

 

Read this

 

1. They like the style.
2. They don't care about the price.
3. They like OSX.
4. Something about Macs that I don't know about.

 

At this moment in time the Macbooks are poor value for money in terms of hardware. This is because Apple, in contrast to other manufacturers, do not reduce the price of their products over time. Instead, they upgrade the hardware while maintaining the same price.
The Macbook range haven't been updated for quite some time, so the pricing of the models are not competitive hardware wise. Rumours have it they will be updated in September (monteniva, new design, new GPU, etc.), by which their value for money will significantly increase.

 

Take it however you will, but asking a simple question does not imply hatred. Now if you would like me to get into a debate about company policies and other stuff I could...but I wont get into that right now. I simply wanted to know why the prices are what they are and mac people always say software and OSX, and I know OSX is not worth it from experience and this price was without software.

 

I guess the name fits; hes not bashing, hes wondering why Macs generally cost more than PCs, and the link that khris provided is pretty informative of why for the most part.

 

Guys,please,not again...

OP,just use a mac for a week and you will understand

 

Yes it was and it shined some light on the subject, but they also compared a 17in XPS with better graphics vs a 15.4 in. The reason I was wondering is that Ive used Macs all my life (the school system I went to uses primarily Macs), as well as PCs and just don't see all the hype. I understand the fanboy theory and all but from an economical/performance stance I just wasn't seeing the connection.

 

Lol thanks for not reading my post . My wife has a MB that Ive used for many days as well as my k-12 school system uses primarily macs. So I can say that Ive seen apple IIe to MBP, and I think that is more then enough experience with Apple products. Plus this isnt supposed to be negative its just a simple harmless question, and if some mac people get offended then they need to check their attitudes at the door.

 

Don't the Macbook's have good build quality, nice screens, and thin and light bodies?

Edit: Forgot to mention the backlit keyboards.

 

That link is full of crap based purely on the fact they think the 8600GT is better than the 8700GT. And they forget that the 8700GT is in SLi.

 

1300 vs 3800?

i didn't even look at it, and i seriously doubt it.

i mean, you MIGHT be able to configure some crazy macbook pro to be 3800, but you are a moron if you do. basically all of the macbook pro's are the same spec now. the little differences just don't matter. $1799 is the price of the macbook pro, and it comes with a free $300 ipod touch. how much does the comparable dell machine cost? i dont know. but the mac just doesn't cost 3800 dollars. thats insane. obviously anti-apple fanboy hype skewing the results. i remember something like this from about a year ago.

 

There are tons of obvious things that make macs "worth" the money. There are tons of arguments for and against their "value". There are tons of reasons to get a mac as well as tons of reasons not to. If you would like to see them there have been 1000000000000 threads on this forum as well as others that outline clearly all of the pros and cons.

No one is offended, people are just annoyed. You are being captious and antagonistic. The fact that you veiled your petty attempt at provocation in some ridiculous insincere caveat means nothing.

To answer your question, the relative value of Macs decreases the longer it's been since an update. Because, as a few people have said, instead of heavily discounting the price of their notebooks as time passes they keep the price point static and update them every 4-6 months. We are close to a refresh so the relative value of a MBP to your dell would probably be at it's lowest right now. At release MBPs have in the past been more expensive than an equivalently specced (and featured) notebook, but not by all that much. MBPs also offer tons of features that your Dell does not.

If you still can't wrap your head around that. People buy macs because they can and want to. Apple is trendy and hip. Why spend 40k on a BMW when you can get a Ford Focus with the exact same engine under the hood for 15k?

 

this thread is becoming a flame war and should be closed.the point is-Apple is unique,and thats why it can set the price to whatever they want.Dont like that?then dont buy.and turns out that lots of people like that.

- Microsoft (MSFT) - $255,648,204,000
- IBM (IBM) - $169,964,678,000
- Apple (AAPL) - $157,012,662,240
- Google (GOOG) - $156,392,862,560
- Cisco (CSCO) - $142,125,692,160
- Intel (INTC) - $135,658,860,000
- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $111,866,423,760
- Nokia (NOK) - $97,746,699,520
- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $71,143,935,000
- Disney (DIS) - $59,257,501,500
- Dell (DELL) - $50,483,256,060

The practical significance of this ranking of market cap is little, but does always revive a famous comment by Michael Dell in 1997 when asked about what he would do to fix the then money-losing Apple:
"What would I do? I'd shut [Apple] down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.

 

The price included a 23in apple display which the 1300 I spent included a 24in LCD that I use with my vostro. My dell is in my sig and with dell rebates it was ~$1k, and about $300 for a 24in. Plus the 17in MBP starts at $2800 so please dont compare the 15.4in version like the link had. I was trying to compare apples to apples(no pun intended) and my 17in vs MBP 17in and thats the price comparison (not including the options that my dell had that the MBP didnt).

 

Its sad because all I wanted to do was learn why there was a price difference. Ive used macs since before I can remeber and I personally dont see the price/performance ratio, and I was hoping someone would shine some light on it for me. But no people interpret things wrong and automatically assume the PC guy is bashing Macs when I never did.

 

The 23'' Apple display is most likely vastly superior to the one you bought with your Dell.

EDIT:
If your only criteria for buying a computer is price/performance then Apple is not for you. That isn't even something that needs explaining. Apple hardware costs more. Apple offers other things that make their computers worth buying.

 

How so? mine has 1920x1200 resolution has zero dead pixels and looks amazing. What do apple LCDs offer that make them superior? Again a simple question and nothing negative...

The LCD I have
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112011

 

well,you cant compare cheapest budget notebook to top notebook just because they have same screen size.sorry,but your price comparison was not "correct"

EDIT:again,if they have the same res doesnt mean that they should have the same quality.

 

OP: It seems as though you are happy with your Dell and dont need an Apple. You have recieved more than enough justifications and yet continue to compare your Dell vs Apple for the pure purpose of exacerbating debate for unneccessary reasons.

I understand you simply wanted to know economical justification but to keep chewing this issue (on the Apple subforum nonetheless) is a bit troll-esque to get attention and what not.

If you dont want to buy or dont like an Apple, dont- others do, and for the reasons already mentioned above should be suffice - you want every hardware component compared with your Dell to prolong this thread for the sake of debate? You have a Dell, live with it and go away

 

How is mine a budget laptop? I have a C2D penryn with 45nm 3mb cache. I have 1920x1200 res LCD, 3gb ram 4-4-4-12 timing and an 8600mGT, sound blaster audigy built in. Seems like the same hardware as a MBP, so please tell me how mine is a "budget" model and the MBP is "top notebook"? Same hardware and the construction of the vorsto is VERY good, and no the MBP is not better or worse in that comparison. So please explain how my notebook is lesser of a rig then a 17in MBP.

 

Again /search and you will find at least 5 threads comparing the apple studio display to many many many other monitors. Resolution and refresh rate are not the only things that are important when buying a monitor.

It's been said a million times. You are obviously making some juvenile attempt at trolling. Apples price to performance ratio will never beat a dell or an HP or even a lenovo in most cases. Your dell is NOT the same laptop as a MBP. It may have the same processor ram and grahpics card, but it is far from the same.

I will reiterate what I said before. Why buy a BMW when you can get a car for 1/4 of the price with the same internals?

 

I have yet to get an answer other then style, and no I was only using my dell because its similar to a MBP. Basically what I was looking for was a response like micro kernal architecture or something like that and not a bunch of mac people getting all huffy puffy. But hey I guess I came to the wrong forum for discussion.

 

What we're saying is that based on your criteria of what makes a laptop a "good deal" macs are not a "good deal". They use the same internals (processor graphics card etc). Your gauge of what is a "good deal" or what is "worth it" is not necessarily the same gauge that everyone else uses. Macs offer many things that dells do not. If you need a list do a /search, there are numerous threads about this topic.

Stop trolling.

 

Why are people taking this the wrong way? I never once said PC or my dell was superior EVER. I just wanted to learn more about Macs and why the price is different and instead of what I wanted I got a bunch of people calling me Juvenal and childish. All I wanted was an educated discussion about the pros and what the justification was for Macs. I dont see how this can be misconstrued into a Mac bashing fest and a "troll" post when all I wanted was a simple discussion for educational purposes.

Before I leave I just wanted to let you all know that just because a PC guy comes over here with a price/performance thread dont take it as a negative post. I know there is alot of Mac bashing going around, but that wasnt my intention. Not once did I say one product was inferior or superior, rather I simply was looking for information.

 

"Vostro" is Dell's budget business line.

 

Have you even read anything i've posted?

 

Fair enough, but I was comparing hardware not model. Does Apple offer a business model(s)? Im sure they have to or at least have a deal since the school system here uses only apple til high school. I vaguely remeber a few apple labs back in college.

 

After the trolling comment you could have had the recipe to properly splitting an atom and I wouldn't know because I don't read much after I see insults.

 

m8,i think we should really stop this-it is becoming pointless...

 

Bad analogy. Car companies like BMW make most of their internal and external components. Apple makes external only.


OP, why do people buy $300 dollar jeans? Because they can, and want to be happy. That's basically it.

One reason I can see justification with a Mac is reliability for people who don't need to spend any time configuring/rebooting/etc. and want almost 100% uptime.
(rendering).

But OSX isn't THAT special as many believe; and Vista isn't bad at all as many also believe.

People just need to stop falling for fanboy/marketing propaganda and lies.


It's an operating system, afterall.

 

Thread failed please close it.

 

no no not failed.

listen- if you are a performance person and windows works for you, there is no reason to switch to the mac. its more expensive. thats it. problem solved, go pc.

the mac really just represents an opportunity to try things differently. the normal mac pricing is not as bad as you made it out to be, but you have to keep in mind that with apple, you don't want to use custom configurations. just stick with the models they offer. then compare those specs to equivalent dell specs. you will see the price difference drop from 300% to about 25%.

but yes, its unquestionably more expensive. the advantage is in the hardware and software that you don't normally consider. you have the nice form factor, thin aluminum case, good (comparatively) internal speakers, clean lines, backlit keyboard, and OS X. thats what your 25% extra cost gets you. its not cheap, but its worth it to some people. if you are mostly concerned with graphics cards and gaming, you should not look at the mac.

OSX is a very powerful operating system. animation is done with opengl, there is a lot of work done to make things work well for developers (and a ton of work to make it easy for new developers to make powerful applications), and there is unity in the software (applications tend to work well together and interface with each other). also- a lot of things are built into the operating system that require an additional download on windows. and there is no registry. most applications contain their entire package and preferences (some have a separate "preferences" file) but essentially installing and uninstalling software just involves a drag and drop to the hard drive or the trash, and no conflicts. and there is a security advantage. no facebook virus for mac

 

I just really like the idea of micro kernal OS's. Windows works great for me, and Im not here for advice for a new PC rather Im here to learn. As an IT guy I want to know as much as I can about different technologies so I dont end up being a biased person.

 

I saw you edited your post . This is exactly what I was looking for. I did notice my wifes MB has MUCH nicer speakers then my dell. That is also a nice feature as far as the applications are concerned. I have run ccleaner on my PC's every once in a while and the registry fills up with all sorts of crap.

 

Basically comes down to this...

1. OS X
2. Service Integration
3. Design
4. Apple logo
5. Community
6. Open Source Software (linux, unix, and os x)

Happy? I suspect not.

 

its the little things like that. they add up to provide a lot of value, and apple rightly charges extra for it. and despite some people not knowing much about unix or osx, it really is a very robust and powerful operating system. it is not just flashy, although since it uses opengl, it is pretty flashy. the crazy thing is that since all the UI stuff is offloaded to the gpu, its really not a hog of an operating system. it doesn't need very much in terms of resources, and at the same time provides a very wide array of functionality.

doesn't change the fact that you can accomplish the same tasks in windows on a dell as you can with a macbook pro and osx, and that the dell computer will cost less.

 

"also- a lot of things are built into the operating system that require an additional download on windows. and there is no registry. most applications contain their entire package and preferences (some have a separate "preferences" file) but essentially installing and uninstalling software just involves a drag and drop to the hard drive or the trash, and no conflicts. and there is a security advantage. no facebook virus for mac "


This, to me, is a perfect answer to the OP's question as to what makes a MAC more expensive. Especially for those who may not be as computer literate (I am sure there are a lot of us I am willing to pay a higher price not to have to worry about bullshi* viruses and reboots etc etc. shouldn't this answer be enough to satisfy the question?

 

They use different panels that provide superior colour accuracy. (Can't remember what they are called, but it's been discussed a thousand times.) Clearly adding one of the most expensive (and one of the best, and probably worth it) screens to the price and saying that this price was that of the MBP itself was an attempt to just make them seem more expensive than they really are. Especially considering you didn't mention it in the OP.

 

I got the first part, but linux/unix is open sourece for every platform. As for the bold and underlined portion, that was uncalled for.

Oh I wasnt doubting the power of OSX, but yeah between the design of the kernel it shows some nice capabilities but also leaves out legacy support (the current bane of MS software moving on from old kernel design). Personally I would love MS to take a step towards newer better kernel as we no longer need legacy support for really old hardware as well as OS effeciency is better with micro kernel design, and if you do there is always vista and older OS's for such tasks. So heres to a new setup for windows 7...oh wait its too late they are basing 7 off vista. Oh well one can hope.

 

S-IPS panel and SWOP certified.

 

Typing fast is always ftl. Either way I dont really surf the apple boards, but Im sure there has to be something to justify it. I wonder if the proprietary interface has something to do with performance, and if they ever plan on going to VGA/DVI.

 

Aside from the first couple of pages I feel more informed when it comes to Apple products. Thanks to those who gave nice intelligent responses, you have not only informed me of what I sought after initially but also showed maturity in an Apple vs PC bashing world. Very much obliged

 

True, but not all Open Source software gets a Windows version.

I've seen people like you here before. You come in, start up this kind of discussion, when everybody knows that you've already made up your mind. When people give their opinion, you continue to antagonize.

We get it! You bought a PC that can do everything a mac can for half the price. The urge to come in here and tell Mac users off must be unbearable.

 

Apple's aren't immune to viruses, but yes that response was part of what I was looking and masterchief has been most helpful in my queries +1 for him.

 

Nothing is truely free for windows anymore.

Buddy I bought my dell almost a year ago, I wasnt trying to buy anything or rub anything into anyones face. I never said anything was inferior or superior. Please read my posts and youll see all I sought after was information and what i got for the most part was a bunch of defensive Mac guys. Its people like you how take jabs at people for no reason and get on the defensive before understanding the situation that make this "unbearable".

 

This topic appears to have strayed quite off topic and has been reported for having a high risk of turning into a flame war. As a result, it will be closed.

The question to the original topic has been answered in the first page of this discussion, both from the various responses and from Khris' link (explaining that Apple does indeed overcharge for upgrades - which is why people usually upgrade their Macs themselves).