macbook for engineering

I am buying a macbook 13 inch for engineering and i have talked to my college and they say it should work as long as i am in windows. My question is, does installing windows software through the cd drive work? What i mean is if i have windows install and i am in windows, if i put a software cd in there will it work. Since the college provides all the software i am just wondering if all the windows software will work just like it would in windows?

 

1: windows is not near as friendy on a mac as OSX is, drivers SUCK, battery life is halfed and the touchpad takes utils and tweaking to make it IMO usable, and a few other anoyances.

as a designer/CAD user if you need to run windows engineering apps etc, GET a windows lappie, ideally a good workstation unit

for engineering apps on a 13" look at the very bottom of my sig. especially if battery life is important

 

Yes, you can install Windows programs using the optical drive under Windows. The MacBook Pro (MBP) runs Windows just like any other Windows notebook out there. The only difference is that Apple provides poor drivers so you don't get all of the trackpad functionality, the processor and integrated graphics aren't used to their advantage (so the battery life sucks), and there are a few other things. Windows software will work all the same though as Windows is Windows, Windows 7 Home Premium x64 running on a MBP is technically no different than the version of Windows 7 Home Premium x64 running on a Dell, Acer, Asus, HP, etc.

As previously stated, if you are going to be under Windows the majority of the time, you should just purchase a Windows notebook. The only real reason to every buy any Apple hardware is to run their software. There are much less expensive notebooks on the market that can run Windows better (thanks to better drivers) and have similar build quality to the MBP. You buy a MBP to run Mac OS X. Sure, there are a few people here on the forums that purchased a MBP to solely run Windows but the majority of people would disagree with them.

On a side note, there are quite a few engineering programs that are available for Mac OS X. AutoCAD 2011, Office 2011 (Excel), MATLAB, and many others. ArcGIS, WinFlume, HEC-RAS, HEC-HMS, and all those various structural design programs are still Windows only but the big names are starting to migrate over.

Still, there would be no point in buying a MBP if you are just going to run Windows the majority of the time especially since all of your provided software will be Windows only. Now, if you truly are interested in buying a Mac, you could always go with a Windows notebook and then a Mac Mini or iMac for your primary desktop at home.

 

so you do not recommend a macbook for engineering? and you are saying that the mac can not run windows good enough?

 

if running windows engineering applications NO.

you would have to define good enough, any advantages of battery life, quiet, touchpad are all completly negated, and the touchpad actually IMO becomes pretty sub par.

a good high end windows unit or proper workstation is a much better plan. also check and see if any of your engineering apps REQUIRE a profesional GPU such as a Quadro or Fire Pro. some applications are horrid without them

 

In other words.. if you run Windows on a Macbook, it runs just as bad as any other Windows machine and not up to the better Mac standard...

 

And you are then overpaying for no reason at all.

 

Right. MacBook Pros are more expensive than the competition for what you get. The specs in the higher end 15" MacBook Pro can be had in a Windows notebook for about $1500 while Apple charges $2200. You are paying a higher price so that you can use Apple's hardware along with their software. The hardware is only half of the equation, the other part is Mac OS X. Not using Mac OS X as your primary OS defeats the entire purpose behind buying any Mac. Having the ability to run Windows on a Mac is a neat feature that can come in handy but it isn't something that should be used as the primary means of computing.

Its kind of like how a Toyota Prius will use only its electric engine when you are traveling at 10MPH or less. A neat feature but you shouldn't be going down the highway at 10MPH just to conserve gas.

So yes, buy a MBP if you are going to run Mac OS X the majority of the time as that is what they were designed to do. Do not buy a MBP if you are going to boot up into Windows most of the time.

I was a civil engineering student (I graduated in 2009) and I will be going back for my masters degree here in September. I went with a Mac for a few reasons (Mac OS X being a major one) but also because the bookstore of the university I will be attending sells both Mac and Windows software for extremely cheap prices. They are selling Office 2011 Mac for $10, AutoCAD 2011 Mac for $15, MATLAB Mac for $10, and so on. All of the software that I will ever use is available on OS X.

 

well i plan to run any engineering software i can on the mac os x but what i can`t will be runned on windows. This will be my first mac ever though. if you had to decide between this or the lenovo x220, which one would you get?

 

because of the warranty available, options ( expresscard to run external GPU and WWAN ) and battery life ..... x220

 

I'm an upcoming engineering student too. Does anyone know how much engineering software undergrads run? I heard that professors do a lot of stuff in the computer labs. But I don't know how many programs students will have to run by themselves...

If undergrads use engineering software like 3 times a semester then I'll lean towards the MBP. If undergrads use it like every class then I'll lean towards PC.

I've asked a couple professors and counselors but they always give me unclear answers! Gah. I don't care about compatibility! I can always download W7. I just don't want to switch every hour or so.

 

I know here in Canada they run pretty much everything and dont use lab much except for extreme renders. My oldest daughter is heading into civil engineering and we found for her courses and school we pretty much had to go to an actual workstation and not a light duty laptop.

but since every school is different I would say se what other people in the courses found best and keep at the professors

 

Check your university engineering department for free or cheap software since they are very expensive if you get it yourself. University of toronto offers mostly if not only windows software.

 

As does UBC, NAIT, SAIT and U of C. in the case of SAIT they give you student editions of all the windows based software.

 

^^ and your forgot UofA, really big eng department there as well...

and yes it's all windows, they tend to do most if not all in the labs, as most people can't afford a workstation class machine to run this software. a Mac is not a good option. if it needs to be portable, X220, if you can manage a heaveir computer HP's 8460p/w or /8560p/w are good machines.

 

that was fairly thicked skulled of me my husband has double engineering degrees from the U of A, Electronics and structural

seconded.

 

Oh, I can download W7 for free from my school's engineering department. However, they only have like 3 real engineering programs for personal download so I dunno how often they run eng programs...

 

Either way, most engineering programs favor windows over mac. So unless you really like os x and dont mind doing all your homework in the computer labs (if you live on campus this is viable), stick with a windows based machine.

 

A Windows-based laptop would definitely be the best choice for an engineering student. Departments usually don't offer engineering software support for non-Windows versions of their programs. Consider looking at Lenovo's ThinkPad lineup for Windows-based laptops that have some similar qualities to the MacBook Pro line.

 

I'd just want to add that 2011 or 2010 models can do anything that HP workstations-laptops can do for similar cost.

Acutally I found that vmware was superior to Microsoft's virtual PC solution. This became practical when programming ARM and Motorolla using legacy software.

And the battery lasts longer in OSX checking email/problem sets online.

my $.02

 

It really depends on what your specific university/department offers. Like one of the posts above mentioned, if your bookstore contains all the engineering software you'll need in Mac formats for cheap, it might be ok with going with a Mac. However, I think it's safe to say that engineering software are written first in Windows then transported to Mac. A Windows would be safer because there's less chance of you running into an engineering program on Mac that doesn't have a windows version.

I'm currently an engineering student myself and my department offers free software for students. However, they only have the windows edition available. My friends who came to college with Macs and don't want to use boot camp are forced to do their homework in the labs which may not be convenient (think final exam and the labs are packed).

You might also want to ask the professors about what type of platform they are using in their labs. In your four year career, you'll end up working in a professor's lab eventually and it's a lot better to have a system that's compatible with what he or she is using. Some professors use very special software and some even write their own for their respective OS.

I might even suggest waiting on your purchase until after you've arrived at your college campus. If you have a laptop/machine right now, you can bring it with you to use for a few weeks. If not, perhaps use a computer lab for a week or two. You won't really know the feel of what you need until you're at college. You won't really know if you'll want a highly portable laptop because you're dorm is far / you have to go from class to class very quickly. You won't know if it's entirely better to just use their computer labs. However, I suggest getting a laptop VS a desktop because you'll end up working with your friends; mobility is very helpful. Also, if you like working in the library, library computers won't typically have specialty software installed.

It might also be possible for you to remote access a computer in your engineering lab with your Mac (I've never tried this with a mac). I often use my windows machine to remote access into linux machines at the CS department.

If you find that you spend a lot of your homework hours in your dorm, I suggest getting a cheap 2nd screen. Having a 2nd screen does wonders when working with Data collection software / excel / Word / Finite Element Modeling all at the same time. You'll also want at least 14-15in for the screen size for modeling work. Screen space is important when trying to analyze multiple aspects of your work.

Personally, I'm using an Acer Aspire with pretty mediocre specs. It runs programs like Pro/Engineering/Mechanic, Matlab, and Eclipse alright (start up times for some of these programs can be quite long though). When I need more computing power, I typically go to specialty labs.

As far as specs go, if you decide to go with dual screen, you'll want to pack in some RAM to make sure all your programs (a lot of these can be huge resource hogs, especially the 3D FEM programs) can run smoothly at the same time.

Wow, that was wordy on my part XD. I hope this helps.

 

The only issue in regards to staying in line with what professors and universities use is that you can still be stuck in the past. For example, many universities are still using Windows XP yet you can't buy a new computer running that these days. Even then many computers in labs are still running Windows 95, 98, or even 2000 as that is what the specific hardware requires. For example, at the university I will be attending, a professor is using a Pentium 4 (non-HT) tower with Windows XP SP1 (they haven't upgraded to SP2 or SP3 as he fears it will change too many things). I can go across the hall and another professor has a 17" MBP with an external Apple display. However, I can walk into either one of their labs and the primary computer in there is running Windows 98 as it is hooked up to a machine that analyzes metals in water samples. The machine requires Windows 98 so they have never upgraded beyond that.

I do agree that it might be better to just wait to get to college before making a decision. That way one will know for sure what computing platform they will be using for the next ~5 years (as most 4 year degrees now take about 5-6 years). I have known some students whose parents purchased them a nice Dell XPS notebook only for them to go into photography and everything in the art department is being run under Mac OS X. I have also known people to buy an Apple computer to go into mechanical engineering when all their software (aside from AutoCAD and MATLAB) is Windows only.

At least the MBP gives people the option of running Windows or OS X but there is no need to go with one if you will be constantly booting in and out of Windows just to run this software or that. Windows 7 is a very compitent OS and there are many notebooks on the market that are almost just as stylish as the MBP, have almost the same build quality, and come in at lower prices (or the same price with more features).

 

You're saying a 2010 or 2011 MBP can do anything a HP Elitebook can do? Definitely not true nor at a similar cost. HP can give significant discounts on prebuilt models or even customized laptops via phone (or even 24% currently online). The biggest thing is that you get a lot better customization and options with HP. Other than that, there is a workstation GPU, superior 10-bit IPS panel, 4 DDR3 SODIMM slots, and much better build quality - to name a few.

 

please tell me your kidding. I own both ... see sig. your trying to compare a consumer laptop and an outright business class machine?

Apple still wins on touchpad and has a SMALL lead on the new SB based Elitebooks for batery life.

even my 2 year old 8740W with its non SB based CPU still makes my 2011 17" look like a childs toy.

the biggest differences for me are:

1: WARRANTY and Support I killed a unit on a jobsite by having a 2x4 jammed through the screen. I call in and the nice HP lady says " im sorry to hear that Mrs. ***** I will have a technician out for you at 9:00am tomorrow with a fresh screen assembly, will that be all today? were talking an expensive DC2 Screen here and not your run of the mill TN panel

2: PORTS .. expresscards, USB 3.0 etc, etc.

3: screen .. you can only get top notch IPS screens in workstations and a handfull of new lenovo business class units

4: screen realestate - the FP equipped workstations run FIVE displays without any mess or fiddling

5: Docking ports - clip your laptop on to expand ports and features = instant desktop without cables and bottlenecks. you can also clip on a battery slice for that nice warm all day running feeling too.

6: DURABILITY ... ive lived it many times you can not expect a machine designed to milspec drop tests, and having a very sturdy framework to be exactly weak compared to a unit whos ENTIRE structure is from a thin anodized skin only on the outside. think of 2 carbord boxes and one has the nice gridwork inside for holding bottles. which can you stand on better?

7: COOLING ... when encoding videos -- 40c difference even comparing i2010 tech to i2011

8: keyboard ... my biggest complaint ... where the heck is a number pad to enter alot of numbers in ... sure is nice for entering vector data, coding and even my accounting.

9: a freaking PROFESSIONAL GPU, yes their awfully expensive but never having a driver crash or being able to offload obscene amounts of rendering information to one is a godsend. I am aware more apps are going D3D and will use a standard " gaming " GPU but many high end apps are still HUNDREDS of percent faster on the Quadro's and FirePros.


ok enough of that ... I WILL agree with you on the MS VPC solution, I tend to just use Vmware as well or virtual box.

as for price ... lets just say way too close to the same. until I upped my workstation to 32GB of RAM, admittedly I did call into a rep and get my 24% discount like most others as the above poster mentioned

 

how about a 15inch macbook pro baseline model, would that be able to handle auto cad in windows? I plan to use OS X all the time except when i am doing engineering software....

 

I'm a little concerned with the Video card memory being only 256MB.

 

good point, with a serious amount of polygons or a large frame render its not hard to fill VRAM up with A- Cad, 3DsMax eyc. you would need to know your projects. I would call 512 a minumum if you dont want a big performance hit having to swap textures out of vram and back to dram and vice versa. light gaming is fine on 256 but actually generating the games or a large wireframe can eat video ram horridly. I can attest to some architecture and 3d mechanical models killing off 1.25GB of video ram.

if we knew exactly which apps you would be running and on which OS as well as how large projects and/or renders would be some of us could possibly help more. but for those details you would need specificinfor from your shool, or instructors.

 

Having been through an engineering school myself, I think it's unlikely that you will need anything more than a basic consumer laptop. That's what 90% of your classmates will have. Any work that your instructors expect you to complete on your own computer will be chosen with that in mind. When I had to go to a lab to do coursework, it was not really for better hardware but because the software wasn't available freely/cheaply for students. That was relatively rare as an undergrad, but I did spend a lot of time in the lab in front of workstations when working on my senior thesis and as a grad student.

 

AutoCAD has no issues running on even the 13" 2011 MBP when 2D drawings are in place. I have loaded some complex 2D floor plans, machinery sketches, etc. into my MBP and it didn't have any issues. The only time you will really see any problems is when you are doing complex 3D modeling. Then again, you would want to be using something with Nvidia Quatro graphics or something else along those lines built for 3D modeling.

ArcGIS, a program that is easily more resource intensive than AutoCAD's 2D mode, also runs fine on my 13" MBP. So, if a 13" MBP can handle that, a baseline 15" model would have no issues. I don't really know of any engineering class that would require complex 3D modeling anyway. At most, you would need to sketch floor plans, waste water treatment facilities, etc. and they would all be pretty simple. There are even many engineering students who go through their undergraduate and graduate careers without ever having to even open AutoCAD.

 

I have learned that i do not need to use a laptop for my course but my teacher advised it would be beneficial. Cad work will all be done in labs... But matLabs will be done on Laptops, is the 13inch good enough for this and how good is the processeser compared to a intel core i5 650 3.20ghz which is my desktop right now?

 

your desktop will eat it for lunch simple...

but form matlab I think the 13 is fast enough... especially if there is a good lab at the uni/college for AutoCAD.

 

Even AutoCAD, so long as it isn't complex motion modeling with textures, will be fine on the 13" MBP. As I said, ArcGIS runs fine on mine and that is a program that requires way more resources than AutoCAD even when working on simple projects.

 

Honestly, I think you're really keen on getting the MBP. If you get anything else, I think you'll still want the MBP. If this is so, it's probably best to go ahead and purchase the MBP. You'll be happiest this way : ) . Anything the MBP can't run, you'll be able to find a computer in a lab that can.

About MatLab, my 2 year old acer with mediocre specs can run Matlab decently (please see sig). The MBP should be fine with running Matlab. The processor on the MBP is more powerful than what I have in my acer.

 

Cool to hear stories from Engineers! I'm definitely gona buy the 15''. My worries are assured.

 

Ok I just want to address what someone said about Windows being bad on Mac.

I can't attest to the battery life differences, but as far as the experience itself, Windows on a Mac is very, very good. There was one problem with some of the drivers but it's a "one time" pain. To be honest, I loved Windows on Mac so much that I deleted Mac OS X for some time and I still don't like it. Games run better on the Windows side too.

All you have to do is stick the Windows CD into the Mac (you can even torrent the iso and burn it to a drive if u feel like it) and it should begin loading up. =D

And the Mac comes with this amazing CD (the one that installs the operating system) that has this tool called Disk Utility. You can basically delete Mac OS X and wipe the whole thing and call it Windows =D Windows forever =D =D

But yeah, Macs are expensive. The one nice thing is that Apple has amazing customer service. For example, my Macbook's rubber bottom came off and, just a week later, they announced a "free rubber bottom replacement" program for free. What luck. =D

 

As I said, there are some people that will solely use Windows on a Mac but they represent the extreme minority. How is that trackpad working out for you? Not as fluid as under OS X and it is missing a large portion of features. What about the ability to use Intel's IGP over the AMD option to conserve battery? Not going to happen in Windows. The keyboard layout was built for OS X as well. There are just so many things in a Mac that were built specifically for OS X (kind of obvious) that running nothing but Windows on it would limit the experience.

It is not the fault of Windows but rather poor driver implementation by Apple. That and they designed their software around their hardware. The trackpad is a completely different experience under OS X. People with a 15" or 17" MBP have severely limited battery life as the AMD graphics are up and running the entire time while the Intel graphics are essentially locked out. Even on my 13" MBP, the battery life is about twice as less under Windows as it is under OS X.

 

I have decided on the x220 because i have been told that there is not enough accessible outlets in my classes. I plan to keep it for 3 years then upgrade to something else. Hope everything turns out well and thanks for the amazing help, i will some day join the apple community but for now will rock windows. lol thanks everyone