looking for a windows MBP expert

i have been looking at the santa rosa MBP, in particularily the cheaper 15.4" and spec wise it fits what im looking for quite nicely. although i have been using windows my whole life, and my uni teaches/forces me to use programs that are windows only. so i'd imagine i'd probably be using windows 85% of the time and OS X 15%, and i have a few questions concerning this:

- windows compatibility, exactly what works and what doesnt, (i would probably be dual booting vista).

- the amount of space OS X occupies, and how small can the smallest functional partition of OS X be?

- battery life in windows compared to in OS X? i know how much people are getting in OS X but was unable to find out about windows.

- does anyone know if features such as no tap-clicking in windows and accidental input and other unsupported issues will be supported in future versions of bootcamp?

- are the heat issues really a problem, especially in windows with the fans, or has this issue just been sensationalized, like most problems generally are.

- also any feedback about windows on the MBP, seems like the rest of these questions a quite negative, i want to hear about what people think of Windows on the MBP?


i know this sounds pretty bleak towards the OS X side but i do want to give it a chance but i know i will have to keep windows as my primary os because of certain constraints and ease.

i have been hovering around this mac forum for quite some time trying to gather information and this is the left over stuff that i havent been able to come across.


Thankyou for reading, i know its long.

 

1. I have not found any device that does not work but the fan control in Windows is not as good.

2. No idea. I would not make it smaller then 25-30GB. Also I think your 85% to 15% will turn into 50-50 or even 20-80 after a while. I was planning to mainly use windows too and changed my mind quickly.

3. Windows gets about 3.5-4 hours and OSX 5.

4. No idea... I use an external mouse.

5. Heat in windows is not a problem that will make the MBP crash or burn. But it does get hotter then in OSX. I use RMclock to undervolt the CPU and that helps alot.

6. Like i said everything that I expected to work works. The sound in OSX is even better then OSX. One thing i hate about Windows mode is that I have a German keyboard. The @ sign can only be reached with ALT Gr and ö under OSX. This is fine. On a PC it is Alt Gr and Q... stupid by Apple to do it different but doesnt matter. However in windows i need to press Alt Gr + Ctr and ö. Even more stupid and you keep needing to switch in your head.

 

5. say im just web browsing in windows over wifi using the notebook on my lap how would the heat be with that? i have heard people saying they can game on their lap with no worries and also the complete opposite, i dont know what to think.

6. i will have the australian keyboard which i think is the same as the US keyboard so that should be alright, just a question what do you mean, "the sound in OSX is even better then OSX"?

anything else i should be aware of??

and also i dont really see it going to primarily OSX because of incompatiable programs and knowledge of windows.

thankyou

 

Sorry I ment to say the sound in WINDOWS is better then in OSX. I have small problems with the sound in OSX and non in Windows.

When surfing the net you wont notice the heat. Just make sure power saving of the graphics card is turned on. I think this is where many people mess up.

 

1) Everything that works on Windows will work on your MBP should you install Windows on it. It just becomes a Windows PC after the install.

2) You can make the OS X partition pretty small, around 10 - 15GB maybe? I would never make it pretty small as you may need it in the future anyway as something would probably go wrong on the Vista side and force you to use your OSX partition to fix it. Also remember Boot Camp is in BETA and should you not pay for it or get Leopard when the BETA runs out, it'll be unable to update. Also VMware and Parallels allow the use of Windows whilst in OSX without having to dual boot.

3) Vista has a lot of problems with battery life and Vista on all laptops. Apparently the power options aren't very good. On my Macbook and also other people's laptops there have been issues with the battery meter on the Windows partition not recognising when the laptop is plugged in or not, which is pretty much a big problem. Nothing like this on XP though.

4) Not as yet.

5) Heat is bearable. It was pretty much the first Macbooks and Pro's that had heat issues.

6) Using Windows only on an OSX laptop is a waste of money IMO. You are pretty much paying for the operating system when you get a Mac and to use it for Windows is a waste. You'd be better off getting a Windows laptop should you not want to use OSX and partition it as small as possible.

 

i guess i want the MBP because it isnt actually that bad a deal, although mainly because of the design and form factor, i mean its a 15.4" with the weight and volume of a 14.1" and according to this poll http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=139488 it has become more common to buy a mac for alternate reasons than just OSX. although i am going to give OSX a chance i just want to start off with it a bit and if i like it i may re-partition the drive accordingly,

will i have to format the drive if i want to re-partition it?

do u think its a good idea? or should i just get a windows machine?
anything i should know?

also some other peoples opinions of windows of a MBP would be nice?

also would i have any problems installing a vista version that i got from a mate that im pretty sure isnt 100% legal?

thanks heaps, very helpful

 

I guess I should've posted a minute later, but those questions have been answered above.

 

sorry i was writing that while you posted then i editted it after i saw your post, thanks for the info mate.

 

The Macbook pro wont cause any more problems then any other PC. Ms and Vista activation is what will cause problems.

 

lol true i might just invest in a legit one.

 

I'm in the same position sheldon. I just bought a MBP yesterday but have yet to open it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go ahead and step into the realm of MAC. I too invision myself using windows more than mac. I've heard a few people on this board say its not worth it and we're paying for OSX but find me a 15.4" windows laptop with the same form factor and power of the MBP for 1600 (education discount)...and i'll gladly get it.

 

You can easily get a Dell Inspiron for less than that.

 

No 15" Dell Inspiron has the "same form factor" as the MBP (style, weight, size), or the LED backlights, or OSX (assuming you consider this to be a pro and not a con) or power (T7700 vs T7500, 8600M GT w/ GDDR3 vs GDDR2).

Of course, for some people, those differences don't mean anything and thus won't be worth the money. For others, those differences are priceless.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

don't get a macbook pro to run xp as your mobile productivity operating system.

the trackpad will severely hamper your ability to get things done in windows. the trackpad itself is fine, but the driver basically makes it inoperable. the mac trackpad in osx is actually more functional than any pc laptop trackpad i have come across. in windows, the mac trackpad is less functional than some of the worst implementations i have come across. this will likely be fixed with drivers, eventually. hopefully. you will therefore need an external mouse, which severely limits your mobility.

i can easily get 5 hours of battery life in osx. i think 3 hours in windows is a little too optimistic. i think more like 2:30-2:45 max.

you will probably need an external keyboard depending on what you are doing. there are no home/end/insert/ delete keys on the macbook pro. that limits the usability of the keyboard in windows. on top of that, your palms will cause accidental trackpad input relentlessly, if you get lazy at all and rest them instead of keeping them up.

it does get hot in windows. its not a big deal unless the fans kick up and it annoys you / your company. its not going to fry the components though. i probably wouldn't sit it on my lap while gaming. it can get really hot and i wouldnt want to risk it on my lap.

of course, at a very minimum take your hard drive space (120 gigs)

subtract 10 gigs for manufacturers labeling gigs their awesome way. (110 gigs)

subtract 20 gigs for the osx install (90 gigs)

subtract 5 more gigs for the bare minimum boot camp forces you to reserve for you os x installation (85 gigs)

subtract however much your OS installation size is (5 to 10 gigs? maybe more? i will call it 5- that is conservative)

80 gigs.

and that is how much hard drive space you will have in windows if your intention is to dedicate your machine to windows.

in summary, the macbook pro is not a very good mobile productivity oriented windows laptop.

the usability of windows without being plugged in, without an external mouse and keyboard, is very low in my opinion.

 

Doesn't sound like you will be using it much at all in terms of OS X. Keep in mind it is a "Mac computer" and not in just brand name. The keyboard, the trackpad and the Firewire ports which are used to power and control many peripherals on Mac OS X. Don't fool yourself into believing you have a full fledged Windows computer because you can install Windows on it. The bootcamp utility is really to help bridge the gap for people who are truly going to switch to Mac OS X. Many people need to still use certain programs but want to switch to OS X but don't want to get burned by going cold turkey.
The Mac computers are not designed to be turned into Windows computers otherwise the keyboard, trackpad and ports would be exactly the same for both the Mac side and Windows.
One other note, Apple is not going support issues with Windows instead they will only support the bootcamp utility.
Apple does make beautiful computers but they are designed to be used as Macs. If you are buying just for looks and design it's a bad choice. You should buy a Sony Vaio. Sony makes beautiful PCs. Their prices are on par with Apple's.

 

Well the problem with the SONY's is their specs are not near that of the MBP. I think the big allure of the MBP is the unrivaled performance and style/size blend. I am also in the market for a new laptop, and like many others I want a notebook that can run new games at least decently for the next 2 years. However, style, size and portability are all extremely important to me as well, and it is absolutely ridiculous how hard the MBP destroys the competition in this area. The PC notebook that it is closest to in terms of specs is the ASUS G1s, and the MBP is a great deal smaller, and lighter, and has a great deal longer battery life. Obviously, while gaming I would have a external mouse in the very least, and mac keyboards don't bother me in the least, because I am somewhat used to them (A funny side note: My college actually recently updated all of their computers to MAC mini's and bootcamps XP as the main OS on the vast majority of them). Now it seems to me that for my purposes the MBP is perfect except for on small hiccup, the price. Even with a student discount once i factor in the cost of Vista I am still looking at $500 above what I would pay for the slightly better performing G1S. The price to me might be worth it if I had a bit more money, but as it sits now I think it is just a bit too steep, which sucks because the G1S is a friggin monstrosity compared to the MBP (not to mention the sucky battery life).

 

Well to you the MBP is not a good deal then. How can you boast how the MBP kicks ass against all other PC notebooks and is unrivaled against the rest of them and then say it's too expensive? You get what you pay for. You can't expect the MBP to be competitively priced and still kick the pants off their competition.

 

Vista runs soooooo smooth on MBP. My friend recently bought one and put Vista on it, it runs very smooth and very COOL on MBP, despite some ppl say the machine runs at a higher temperature in windows compare to OSX, totally not the case. He said vista actually cranks up the fan speed as temp go up compare to default 2k in OSX until 85C.

 

Well, no, the fan control in OSX is actually pretty good. Any sort of sustained temp will make the fans go up incrementally as necessary, so I've had my fans slowly go up from 2k to 3k and 4k etc. Vista just runs a whole lot hotter - it's not surprising for my fans to just jump to 4k right away from even light use (i.e. web browser open with a few tabs, music, video, database, email, utorrent etc.). Soon as I run a game like nwn2 or something, fans jump up to 6k real fast. Whereas in OSX, the fans rarely *need* to be on that much because it just runs cooler in general.

Vista does run quite smoothly though - actually faster than OSX in some instances. Oh well, can't have it all.

 

alright this is my defence to the allegations here.

price is not a problem, i dont mind paying the extra.

the only other notebook that comes close imo to this is the Asus V1S the problem there being i dont have the time to wait for the release, and then to get to australia. and even there the battery life and weight are beaten by that of the MBP.

Sony's are a no go because they dont have the specs i want and none of their products appeal to me.

masterchef341 you seem to be very biased towards this and my thoughts are cemeted by "hasta la vista, vista" you have in your personal bio area, that maybe you just dont like the os and want true mac convertors, and are fearful of the future of OS X. i have seen people who claim that with their MBPs under vista can get 3-3.5 hours and believe that even 4 hours is possible. and what is so bad about the trackpad under windows other than the fact that it doesnt support accidental input or tap-clicking although it most likely will with future driver upgrades. also i dont use the home/end/insert/delete keys anyway.

MBP is still a notebook and OS X is just an operating system i have dual booted windows and ubuntu before as well, they are just operating systems. what is so hardware specific about the MBP, the keyboard for me is practically the same, and i prefer the 2 finger click to the right click button. cpu, gpu, hdd, ram, etc is the same as a pc notebook.

i think taelrak understands where i stand all those things are the reason for the extra price for me. and atm OS X is not a possitive or negative and when i use it with the MBP i will develop whether it is a pro or con.

pinwanger i remember a while ago you had a post about pure windows on the MBP so im guessing you would be using windows more than OS X, also bobz99by if you want to give me some feedback it would be greatly appreciated. so how is Windows on the MBP? and how much battery life do you get in windows? does it get warm whilst gaming? anything to report that you found strange, or annoying?

i have used other os's before and will give OS X a go because i do actually quite like it, i just dont have a reason to convert from windows and just think it'll make things harder for me.

i know my posts sound very negative, this one and my first one, but im just trying to find out the absolute worst, to the greatest extent, ie using windows 100%

thanks in advance.

 

i don't have some philosophical problem with you trying to use the macbook pro as a 100% windows machine. if money doesn't matter primarily - you are more interested in having a good laptop experience - then just "being an apple laptop" shouldn't stop you from using it as a windows machine. If money is no object- hard drive size doesn't really matter either, because you can always get a larger hard drive if you need it. They aren't that
expensive anyway.

this is my first apple. i switched over a month ago when it was released. i could honestly care less whether or not you switch to apple osx or stay with windows xp. it makes no difference to me whether you get a sony or an apple. if you plan to use windows primarily; it doesn't change the software base of osx. in fact, the only ulterior motive i am conscious of would be to convince people to get 8600m gt hardware, because the more popular that card is, the more developers will target it.

in either case - it would be sick for me to attempt to convince individuals against what is the "best" solution to add one person to the software base of osx or the hardware base of the 8600m gt.

believe me, it really doesn't affect me whichever route you choose.

i certainly don't hate windows. i have windows xp sp2, and that is rock solid. if you inspect my signature closely you will see that i dual boot osx AND windows xp sp2. "hasta la vista, vista" applied more when vista was still REALLY BAD for gaming. now it is becoming acceptable, slowly. i have vista ultimate shipping to my house as a result. i will install it when it gets here and i most likely won't switch back to xp.

i seriously doubt you will get more than 3 hours in windows if you make battery life your top priority. If you actually plan on using it, i think 2:45 or less is a pretty good estimate.

However, let me be the first to acknowledge that aside from the keyboard config (which may or may not be a big deal to different people) - all the current problems with windows are FIXABLE. They are entirely driver issues. Its all simple things too, that in aggregate make a huge difference to your ability to be productive (when portable) Boot camp is still in beta and it just needs better driver support for the trackpad, power management, and software fan control - of which there is approximately 0 for each right now.

none of that matters if you are going to be plugged in, with an external mouse and possibly keyboard. none of that will matter if they fix the drivers, either. but as it stands, there will be a lot of little things preventing you from using your laptop effectively on the go in xp. i could talk about them if you want, or you can just call the opinion that you don't want to hear "biased" and be done with it.

i speak the truth as i see it, no more no less. we are all biased. regardless, i think i can calmly step outside of that and attempt to be impartially accurate.

i have spent a lot of time with the macbook pro in both osx and windows.

the truth is hard to hear sometimes.

but i really do expect updated drivers to come out for boot camp, likely with the release of osx leopard.

 

I was saying the MBP kicks the pants off of the competition in terms of fitting the performance into a small, sleek package, not overall. In addition I was not saying the MBP is too expensive in general...just too expensive for my wallet at this juncture. I definitely think that the size and style in addition to the battery life make the extra $500 over a G1s well worth it, and that is what I was attempting to say...apparently unsuccessfully.

 

You post on a Mac forum in regards to Windows specific questions and your attitude about OS X is very negative. You even stated that you are barely going to use it. The Mac forum is not here to support Windows questions so naturally this forum will be biased towards the Mac. If a Mac user goes to the Windows side with even one Mac question the Windows users get a bit rude so what do you expect?

You are asking very deeply about how the MBP reacts to battery life and heat when using Windows, you have asked those questions more than once. Would it really matter if the battery life and heat weren't so good?

Some of the posters have tried to get you to understand that spending the money to turn a "Mac" notebook into a pseudo Windows laptop isn't really worth it just because you like the looks but you keep on being defiant about it so it shouldn't matter to you how important the battery life and heat are because the price and trouble of installing doesn't matter to you.

Sorry to tell you but an Apple Macintosh computer is not just any old PC that you install any old OS into. You have to have OS X installed to even use and maintain Windows with it. It's not just called "Mac", the OS and hardware make it a Macintosh.
One other note, Apple does not support Windows related issues just because you can install Windows, they will only support the bootcamp partition.
Now based on my posting and others who are not exactly supporting what you are trying to do this should further enhance your decision to buy the MBP and do what you want which is what your plan seems to be anyway.

 

i acknowledged that my posts were veryy negative. i know this probably sounds stupid after my other posts but i do like OS X. its just when i have tried other os's before they have been missing something small that would annoy me, albeit they had other features that went beyond what windows would provide me. i just have no reasons to use the os.
and it always seems like a get the same answer that its stupid, although in recent poll done in this particular forum it came out with the fact that almost as many people get a MBP to run OS X as people buy a MBP to run Windows. and the clear winner is that people get the MBP for the Specs/aesthetics/design.

 

yes i would like to hear them, but is it that unrealistic that i should buy it not for OS X, when most people buy them for the specs and aesthetics.

the poll i was talking about before is here http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=139488

 

I've been using Windows mostly on my new MBP...and so far its been very smooth. There still isn't any tap-clicking for the trackpad in Windows, and like others have mentioned here...the trackpad can sometimes collect inadvertant input from your palms while typing.

As for no home/end/pg up/pg down keys...they are not there as dedicated keys...but if you still need it...you can just hold Fn and whatever key to get what you want.

If money isn't a problem, i'd still recommend the MBP...even as a windows machine. I'd still suggest that you give OSX a chance though...it is a pretty slick OS.

 

how did you partition your hdd, how much for windows and how much for OS X? would you say other than the features that dont work the trackpad works well under windows? how is the heat, realistically? and hows your battery life under windows? and why did you choose MBP over windows based notebooks.

thanks in advance

 

I think i did 100gb windows/60gb OSx. I think the trackpad works fine on windows...i've adjusted to the 2fingers-down right click already and the 2 finger scrolling works too. Hopefully with future releases of bootcamp, the tap-clicking and other stuff will work itself out on windows. Unless your gaming or something, you should be fine...and then you'd probably have an external mouse for that anyways.

Heat is fine...i think it runs a little hotter on the windows side than osx...but i'm guessing that has to do with driver issues too. It isn't unbearable heat though. Again, unless you're doing some heavy gaming...it should be fine...and then if you are gaming...you probably wouldn't have it on your lap.

Battery life on windows is almost 3 hours for me...this can fluctuate depending on your batt. settings and what you're doing on the computer.

I ultimately chose the MBP for its design, specs, reliability, tech support, and ability to have both windows and osx on there. On the pc side...there really isn't a whole lot to compare it to...perhaps sony in the asthetics department...but i like the MBP design better. If dell came out with a 15" xps maybe lol? I keep hearing about Asus...but i'm not as familiar...so that might be an option. Even then, i think some of the pc laptops fall short in comparison...for instance, i have yet to find any laptops w/ 15" that are LED backlit.

Hope this helps, and let me know if you have any more questions.

 

any little annoyances that you think will get to you over time? also does your OS X/ windows partitions show up in the other os and how easy can you access them, say if i had all my music and movies on one side is it easily accessible from the other side. for example if i have my music on the windows side would i be able to integrate into my itunes in OS X?

 

I think its different for everyone. For instance, not having a dedicated pg up/pg down/home/end key while working in windows might be seen as a deal breaker for some. It was and is kinda annoying sometimes...but I can work around it. And if its really that big of an issue you can always get an external keyboard. But, I just try and remember the reasons I got the MBP in the first place...and i don't think the lack of these keys really spoils my laptop experience.

Like others have said, it IS a mac computer...and there will be some adjustment in using windows on it. But for me it hasn't been too big of an adjustment...and the cost of that is definitely outweighed by the benefits of the design and whats inside the MBP.

One other thing i am having to adjust to (not really a windows adjustment)...is that the keyboard is quite a bit different from the feel of my keyboard on my prior toshiba laptop. I type kinda hard and fast...and sometimes I feel like i'm typing too hard on the mac keyboard. It isn't something that would change my mind about keeping the MBP though.

You might want to try playing around on a MBP if a friend or relative has one and seeing how it is for yourself. Alternatively, you could buy it ...and you'd have 14 days to test it out...but if you return there is a 10% restocking fee I believe.

 

yeah i checked out the 14 day thing but i think it said if you get it customised, ie im going with the 160gb hdd instead of 120gb you cant, someone please correct me if im wrong.
thanks

 

100% sure that you cannot return any customized Apple product.

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespoliciesEdIndividual.html#CTO

10% restocking fee is a big chunk of money...but if you've owned any other laptops, you'll really appreciate how portable the mbp is for a 15 inch notebook and the amount of power it has in such a compact form.

I too also started off thinking I'd simply just use Windows only, and the more time I spent with Mac OS the more I liked it. Mac OS has similar problems like Windows, sometimes programs freeze etc. The difference is if you do a force quite, it'll actually force a quit and you'll be back up and running....unlike Windows where once your stuck, that's it-hard reset.

Fusion has been a great asset also, unless you're doing something with intensive graphic work, it works great and it rarely affects my battery life noticeably.

I'll be honest and the 120 GB is barely enough for me, but that's because I'm a torrent freak. I'd say keep your eyes peeled for a deal on a 2.5 external drive. Not long after I got my MBP Best Buy was selling 120GB passports for $70, that pretty much solved any problems I had.

 

yeah with 2 os's 120gb wouldnt be enough for me so im going with the 160gb and have even thought about the 200gb option but 4200rpm might be a little slow. i kind of dont want to prefer it because i dont want to become a windows hater and then end up in a job were i have to use windows, and it would become a chore for me.

 

I ordered my MBP 2.2 this week. Will install Vista Ultimate (does not cost anything for me anyway). Hate OSX. I can use it for a while, but after some time I would just get to the point where there will be no software that i need or websites that do not work on any other browser except IE.
I know most people do not need apps that I am using or special websites, but I am not the one that would settle for less (MacFans do not get too angry, but everyone knows that there is way less software for Mac than Windows).
The only good thing about OSX is KERNEL (cause it is a lot of FreeBSD , so in reality all that is good in OSX was not made by apple
It is true that MacBook is very good value for the money. Because of hardware design, screen resolution and video card - only HP 8510 series or Lenovo T61p are simmilar. And actually for the same money you get better configuration with MBP than other 2. It is pretty strange that Apple became value computers these days.
Somehow I feel that Microsoft might release EFI support for Vista, then we could install Vista without Bootcamp onto clean drive.

P.S. This is Apple hardware forum and not MAC software forum. So do not blame me for posting here and showing my hate to OSX.

 

u just made me realise that sometimes opera and firefox dont render websites properly and that i too use ie when this happens. shouldnt matter too much but that is something i hadnt thought about.

why do you think they will release efi support for vista? that would be perfect.

 

eventually vista x64 is supposed to have efi booting. maybe with sp1? who knows. its a toss up.

that eliminates the hard drive space issue, but that is the least of several problems.

the big, hard punches you will have to face are:

-giving up 2 hours of battery life (5 vs 3) - thats not rounding, either. you can get 5 hours in osx and 3 in windows, if you try really hard.

-its possible that firmware updates are NEVER going to happen outside of the osx environment (apple isn't supporting windows, only bootcamp, which handles windows drivers but not firmware)

firmware updates are often a big deal. one just came out that increased battery life significantly (30+ minutes) while also increasing the screen brightness.

the other problems are the ones i have been going over. key differences and trackpad woes, heat and fan management.

honestly, expect the single click button and trackpad to match some of the very worst windows trackpads you have come across. right clicking requires complex user input. left clicking doesn' happen on the trackpad, either, so even that requires you to pause to click the bar. there is basically no scrolling method, so you will end up using the page up and page down keys, which aren't optimal but are useable. you can do two finger scrolling, but only vertically, and its really funky. sometimes it doesn't respond and sometimes it will scroll way too far.

in osx, its perfect.

in windows, you can only expect that these issues will likely be resolved: specifically battery life, trackpad, heat, fan management. in the long run it *should* be very useable. vista (x64 only), should get efi support eventually, you can get some extra disk space. until then, you will give up a lot of portability to have mac-windows. so in the long run, you should be ok if you choose to go that route. thats a detail i think you missed when you skimmed over my first answer and decided that i was biased when my answer wasn't the one you wanted to hear.

let me tell you something genuinely good about mac windows, though. boot camp software. it keeps your drivers up to date without you having to hunt for them across your manufacturers website. also, im pretty sure it updates itself, so you don't even need osx to keep that software viable. there might be a glitch when the software gets its official release with leopard, but after that you should be golden on the windows drivers without ever needing to use osx. that is a really good convenience tool. doesn't change the fact that you won't be nearly as portable for the time being, but its still something to think about.

to alenas: there are a lot of people really dedicated to osx or just dedicated to making cross platform software. you can certainly find software to help you do anything you need to do within osx, assuming you know where to look.

i feel sorry for people who use IE in windows. you are opening the door to spyware, hackers, adware, blegh. use firefox to keep yourself safe(r) in windows. what websites are ie only? www.update.microsoft.com? i think we should agree that microsoft update sites will no longer matter in osx...

 

Agreed. IE sucks. Even MSIE 7 sucks. What sucks even more is they refused to adopt the accepted and standard set of keyboard shortcuts (ala firefox ).

I have 5 different sets of keyboard shortcuts memorized because each web browser refuses to use the same standardized set! (MSIE, firefox, camino, opera, safari) and i use them enough on different systems that it's not worthwhile for me to customize them...ugh!

People keep mentioning this, but note that while 5 vs 3 seems to be horrible in terms of the MBP, many 15" PC laptops simply have 3 hours as the default max regardless (i.e. without a multi-bay battery, and without a battery that sticks out)!

In particular, in the OP's case, the V1jp/V1S he's been looking at only has 3 hours of battery time in Vista as it is, so it's not a huge sacrifice there (okay granted the V1S offers a multi-bay if necessary). The G1S has even less.

So while a loss of 2 hours might seem to be a big deal to OSX users, a 3 hour battery life is actually quite a decent lifetime for battery for a 15" with a fairly strong dedicated GPU for a PC laptop.

 

You are perfectly welcome to post wherever you want but to just purposely say rude things to ruffle feathers just shows how childish you are. I left Windows years ago because I got tired of dealing with an inept OS that made BSOD a household word as well as dealing with the stupid registry. But I don't go on the Windows forum and say how jacked up Windows is just to piss people off.
You are dead wrong that there is no software on the Mac. Of course you would say that spoken from a true ignorant Windows user.
Eventually you WILL be using OS X. In case you haven't noticed all the popular multimedia products are made by Apple. OS X is built into the iPhone, Safari (the Mac browser) is on the iPhone so soon enough every website will be Safari centric. These products all run and connect better on OS X.

Windows has a lot more software in terms of games. Other than specific Windows software made for a corporation everything else run on both OS X and Windows.

Sorry to tell you but that's Apple's decision if Windows will run natively on the Mac hardware without OS X, it's not Microsoft's.

Learn how to read next time, this forum is called Apple and Mac OS X. That covers both hardware and software. It's not called the Mac hater forum.
Well even though you are going to use Windows only Apple sucked you in to spending a ton of cash. They suckered you one way or another.

 

thats true. if you just lower your expectations of what battery life should be, then it will be great!

 

One thing I don't understand is, how does OSX have a better fan control when all it does is keeping the fan at 2000rpm then rev up to 6000 when system heats around to 85c.

 

because that statement is false.

the fans will kick up as the temperature increases, or if the processor is under load (which will make the temperature increase) - the fans will kick up.

also, you have the option to manually take control of the fans in osx using tools like smc fan control. you have no access to the fans within windows. the only thing that will make the fans go faster in windows is a piece of hardware getting too hot and sending a request that the fans get turned on. which should be an emergency feature only, not a standard procedure.

also- if you boot into osx, manually set the minimum fan speed, and then reboot into windows, your fan settings will hold. that is because smc fan control does its work in the hardware firmware level. you have to keep the machine on for that to work though. a complete power off seems to reset it. of course, if you boot into osx, your smc settings are stored and loaded with the program, so it doesn't matter for that. that ability is very good for occasional windows gaming sessions, but useless (or at least highly inconvenient) for a 100% windows machine.

if you know you are about to do something that is going to heat things up, you can manually set the fans up within osx. if you are done and you want the machine to be silent again, you set the fans down.

in windows, you can do that, but it requires 4 reboots.

 

It doesn't do that all. It brings it up incrementally as necessary. I've seen the fans go from 2k slowly up to 3k as I increase the sustained load on the system, and then slowly up to 4k as I push it even more, and often hold at numbers inbetween for a while too. Of course, when I do something that makes the processors put out a lot of heat, it can jump to 6k all at once too.

The "as necessary" is key though. When I push the temp to 80 and then let it immediately fall back down again, the fans don't turn on and temperatures fall back down to 40-50 very quickly even without. If I keep the temp high for any amount of time however, then the fans will turn on.

Vista for some reason just seems to run hotter. The fans often do turn on quite quickly even when doing normal non-heavy tasks. When gaming, they ramp up to 6k rpm nearly instantly.

 

Except for the fact that the overall useful life of your battery will deteriorate irrevocably, and more quickly than if you'd used OSX. Sort of the way driving at 80mph will burn more gas than driving at 60mph, and even when you go back to 60mph, there won't be a way to recover the gas you already lost. In the OS example, we're talking about a 40% decrease in the useful life of your battery at a given charge level. Basically, if everyone uses OSX and still gets 4 hours max battery life after a year, the person spending 50% of his/her battery time between OSX and Vista will likely only reach 3 hours on a full charge in OSX at the end of that year, simply due to wearing the battery out more quickly in Vista.

But hey. At least you got to run Boot Camp!

 

i think i see what you are saying. 3 hours in windows or 5 hours in osx is still 1 cycle on the battery. you have a limited number of cycles, so you will only get 3/5 the total hours that battery could have given you over its life. in practice it will be even less than that because the battery is going to be hotter while you are running windows, just because of the ambient temperature.

good point.

 

I tried yes > /dev/null in terminal for both core in our local apple store. The system quickly heats up from 50c to 80c, during this period the fan stayed around 2k, and not incrementally from 2k to 3k to 4k to 6k whatsoever. And finally, when the 17inch MBP I tested on heats up to 85C, the fan kicked in to 6k rpm.

 

i don't know how to help you. i have istat pro and smc fan control which both monitor temps. not only can you clearly hear the differences in fan speed (2k rpms is silent, 6k rpms is jet-like), but smc also monitors and controls the fan speed. my machine doesn't even hit 80 degrees (because the fans will come in stronger incrementally with higher loads/temps, and bring temps down long before that), with the exception of the gpu when gaming, which can hit 80 degrees.

so... i dont know what to tell you.

 

Here goes:

My work needed to test on an OSX platform, plus we were in the middle of an equipment refresh. I 'swung for the fences' and told them that we could accomplish the same thing if we went with a Macbook pro.

A month later, a shiny new 17" 2.4 mhz 160 (5400) 2gb ram MBP was into inventory and I promptly picked it up.

We are a software/web application development company that does mainly windows development. We use mostly PC software at work (mostly M$ stuff, Visual studio, Source Safe, Office, Project, etc). So this jump to a MBP was a little scary to me. I planned mostly to do a 85% PC and 15% OSX split in time (mostly OSX for testing, and maybe some personal stuff, DVDs, photos, music, IM, blogging).

Vista installed perfectly (except the iSight camera). The keyboard is fine, i'm getting used to the home,end keys. I use an external mouse most of the time, but I don't mind the trackpad (it just takes some getting used to). Fans have yet to kick up (except when i block the rear vent while working on the bed - happens in OSX and vista). I have yet to test battery life. So far everything in Vista is just fine. I have recreated my development environment perfectly (even better now) on the Windows side. I don't think I'll convert to OSX as a work environment (even with parallels or VMWare). i have set aside 100 GB for Windows, and the rest for OSX.

I also use the MBP as a 'personal' machine. I am very used to the windows environment. Photo apps like Picasa are hard to beat in OSX. I have a personal windows license for Photoshop so i still use it on the Vista side. I'll eventually boot OSX for DVDs and authoring DVDs. I'm trying to give it a shot while just doing normal websurfing and blogging (using firefox and foxmarks). I use Adium for IMing (which is awesome).

But for me, other than some glam and glitz on the OSX side, I don't have a huge reason to switch to using that OS for my personal tasks. But, I'll give it a shot. I've just imported my photos (on the Vista partition) into iPhoto so i can display photos on the OSX side of things. And i think i'll do the same for my music and videos. But I think I will primarily do everything on the Windows side of things and just kind of sync up the OSX side so when i'm booted into OSX i can have access to my files over on the windows side.

Anyways, long story short. Work paid for this awesome machine. but I think there's just too much for me to stay on the windows side of things. I'll give OSX a shot, but it is too convenient to just boot into Vista and do everything I need there (unless it becomes way too unstable).

I guess to each their own. In my case windows will win out (but with NO offense to OSX).

 

true- but you are using an external mouse, right? that means you are also plugged in most of the time, right?

 

Actually, if I bring my temp up really high all at once, the fans don't kick in right away either. If I sustain it at that temperature for a while however, they do ramp up. It certainly has more options than 6k and 2k only.