Why i bought a MBP 6750m over a m14x...!

While responding to a question about my choice i was able to write down my view in words. The following is the extract of that response:

'I plan on doing a internship at a firm and a MBP would seem a better choice for the future. Taking the m14x in my hand would seem quite out of the norm.

The build quality of both is good but i was not sure about m14x being rough used. Since the laptop will have to my main PC all the time i needed something that can take abuse from pens and usb drives in my backpack.

Lastly the cost the m14x is only avalible in two models here "India" they are as follow:

Alienware M14x Laptop Details | Dell India

Since the 2630QM in the cheaper one is slower comapred to the 2.2Ghz found in the Macbook Pro not to mention the HDD space. The top end 15inch MBP had to be compared with the top end m14x and the following are the difference in m14x top end vs MBP top end:

Macbook Pro/ m14x
2720QM 2.2Ghz/ 2820QM 2.3Ghz "Min difference"
4GB 1333/8GB 1600 "Med difference"
1GB 6750M/3GB 555GT "Min difference"

INR 1,25,000 ($2750)/ INR 1,20,000 ($2650)


Now since RAM is cheap i can upgrade them in MBP with ease. The CPU speeds are not hugely different and will not impact performance a lot.

That leaves the GT555 which has a DDR3 memory and i have noted that the added 1.5GB over the stock 1.5GB does not matter a lot. So to verify this i saw the bench's on notebookcheck:

CRYSIS 2:
40.8
[X] M14x
Intel Core i7 2630QM 2GHz
GeForce GT 555M (590MHz), 3072MB (900MHz) Shadertakt: 1180 MHz, DDR3-VRAM, ForceWare 267.21
4096MB RAM

38
[X] Macbook Pro 15 inch 2011-02 MC723LL/A
Intel Core i7 2720QM 2.2GHz
Radeon HD 6750M (600MHz), 1024MB (794MHz) GDDR5, 8.812.0.0
4096MB RAM

StarCraft 2 (2010) :
23.9
[X] M14x
Intel Core i7 2630QM 2GHz
GeForce GT 555M (590MHz), 3072MB (900MHz) Shadertakt: 1180 MHz, DDR3-VRAM, ForceWare 267.21
4096MB RAM

24
[X] MacBook Pro 17 inch 2011-02 MC725D/A
Intel Core i7 2720QM 2.2GHz
Radeon HD 6750M (600MHz), 1 GBMB (794MHz) + Intel HD Graphics 3000, atiumdag8.812.0.0 Win7/64
4096MB RAM

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (2010) :
41
[X] M14x
Intel Core i7 2630QM 2GHz
GeForce GT 555M (590MHz), 3072MB (900MHz) Shadertakt: 1180 MHz, DDR3-VRAM, ForceWare 267.21
4096MB RAM

39
[X] Macbook Pro 15 inch 2011-02 MC723LL/A
Intel Core i7 2720QM 2.2GHz
Radeon HD 6750M (600MHz), 1024MB (794MHz) GDDR5, 8.812.0.0
4096MB RAM

I wanted to see the overclock performances for both but m14x had variances and could not find a good source of overclocked performance figures. For the MBP the 6750m seemed to settle around 800-830Mhz and 850-900Mhz memory. So i bought the MBP with 6750M and have also been able to overclock the 6750m to 840/910 but settled at 800/850Mhz as the best combo.'

 

Alienware is not for you.

 

Overclocking the GPU of a MacBook Pro while running in Windows 7 (which you're going to need for Bad Company 2)? Sounds like a heat disaster. MBPs, which run a bit hot to begin with, run significantly hotter in Windows than in OSX. And that's without adding overclocking to the equation. Good luck.

Maybe an Alienware wasn't for you because it's not professional-looking enough for an internship (can't really argue with that), but I'm not sure that an MBP is the right choice either.

 

I disagree. In this case, OP is a gamer at heart.

@above: Not quite, you can manage a stable OC at a lower voltage, creating LESS heat than stock. I think I'm rock solid stable at 725/850 @ 0.93v; 20% real world performance increase and 3-4 degrees cooler. However, OP in this case chose to go with default voltages? Then yeah, it'll be hotter.

 

Screw the norm, stand out from the crowd.

 

If you want something to stand up to abuse, I don't know why you would pay a premium for the aesthetic qualities of a unibody enclosure with the knowledge that its going to be ruined. I guarantee you'd scratch the aluminum and immediately regret buying such a fine machine for that purpose.

However, I will say that your needs seem somewhat conflicted. On one hand, a business laptop would suit you very well, but you also want gaming capabilities. You might want to look at HP/Dell/Lenovo's business lines as well as Sager for either of those needs.

 

Thinkpad W520 with the Quadro 2000? Check out the gaming performance numbers in this notebookcheck.net review of the Thinkpad. And while the test model was hideously expensive, you can get the price quite reasonable by knocking down some options unrelated to gaming ability while keeping the Quadro 2000 GPU. And you can't fault Thinkpad durability.

Review Lenovo ThinkPad W520 Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

 

What do you use to under volt? I used MSI Afterburner but my voltage tab is not active? Your clocks are that of the 6770m i also want to undervolt it but using ATI tray tools gives me BSOD . "I am running Win 7."

At max load my Temps are around 80-82 for the 6750m.

They will hand me a office laptop instead and those office laptops are very very bad 'Even tough they are thinkpads most are of the IBM era hehhe'

Sadly there is no Sager in India but i did have a look at the HP and Dell line up and well could not find much to compare to a 6750m. As for the scratching well i have a sleeve with open space for the vents. What i need is that the body should not break under pressure like plastic ones do, I may need to stuff files/papers into the same backpack as the MBP so i need to be sure that the thing does not break the lcd or something.

The mBP was thus a far more balanced laptop compared to laptops that have quads running at 2.4-2.5ghz and a hd 3000...

It runs around 80-85C full load 'Furmark' without problem and by far i have not had much problems after installing Windows 7. I use DXVA for videos but i still dont know how to switch 6750m to hd3000 in windows 7....

 

You CAN'T switch from 6750m to hd3000 in Windows 7. One of the many reasons people say that you shouldn't buy an Apple if using Windows is going to be a regular thing for you instead of merely occasional.

Once again, look at the gaming numbers the Thinkpad W520 can put out with the Quadro 2000 in post #7.

 

I just use ATI Tray Tools. I'm on 11.8 drivers though. Depends on what you mean by max load. I've ran every 3dmark test and really never seen north of 80 on the GPU. 77 seems to peak for me, even in Dirt3/Shift2/BFBC2/CoD.

If I run WEI, I can see CPU spike to about 95ish though, before settling around 88-90. I use lubbos fan control, or it'd even spike higher (I've seen it hit 99) which is some what troublesome.

However, temps are a lot lower when I use throttle stop at 22x multiplier and disable the turbo. FPS is also a lot more stable. For games, I've never seen the CPU hit more than 85ish with turbo disabled. GPU again, well under 80.

Anyway, the W520, M4600, and EB 8560w are all better gaming machines because of far better cooling... and a more powerful card.

MBP's biggest advantage over those three is size and design (along with a couple intangible things... trackpad, no bottom vents, etc).

 

Yep the W520 is pretty good the Quadro 2000M is rated between 6770m and 6750m but i guess you can always overclock

As for the switching there will eventually be a work around but even without it the battery life is not that bad its better than most. An example of this is that the W620 with its 94 Wh gets 1.30Hrs on load where as the MBP gets 1.26hrs on load.

Non the less the W620 seems like a very good deal.

 

Switchable graphics isn't to extend battery life during heavy load. Switchable graphics has no effect whatsoever on battery life during heavy load. It extends battery life during light load.

 

I also use throttle stop it does wonders Those gaming machines you mentioned come with either Quadro 2000M or FirePro M5950 both of which are rated between 6770m and 6750m. Dont know how much either will overclock tried a search but yielded no results :S

These MBP's advantages are a few reasons why i bought it instead of any alternative.

I know that i was just pointing out that MBP's weaker battery rivaled that of a much powerful battery in the W520 when loaded, given the difference between the 6750m performance and 2000m its sayin a lot.

 

Those are not gaming machines, those are workstations. Suitable for you if you ask me.

The 2000m is a 55 watt card. The M5950 is probably comparable underload, if not better.

And the W520 has a sheet battery option, which gives it like a day's worth of battery life.

MBPs throttle under load anyway... my CoD frames are not consistent at all, even with throttlestop. The other games seem to be ok though.

Anyway, I still think the M14x might've been a better fit for you. You say you can OC the 6750m, ok, true, you can OC the 555m as well. Plus, even with a pretty hefty 750 core or even 800 OC, you're barely at the performance level of a stock 555m.

 

Sorry Bill, but I disagree. I have an m14x and a MBP 17.

Although both are great overclockers, the MBP gets much better frames than the m14x at the same res unless it is a game that really favours nvidia.

When running at 1080p the overclocked 6750 gives much better fps.

And strangely I have never had my MBP throttle on me yet, but I usually run my MBP at a constant 2.2ghz as I like the lower heat (having tested, 2.2 vs TB, I dont lose fps but some loading times are a second longer)

 

My 6750m is at 800/850 but i have reached 830/900. stable but without much improvement over 800/850 so sticking to that freq. As the stock 6770m 725/800 is suppose to fair better than a GT555 with DDR3 i would say my 800/850 OC exceeds the capabilities of m14x GT555 DDR3 by some degree.

Now when it comes to overclocking the GT555 there is a bit of confusion over best OC settings at stock/undervolt. I could not get any good dependable figures. I got the impression that 670/1340/950 is the best combo for the GT555 at what voltage was not written i take it as stock. Now this is a jump of about 13% and if we keep in mind that 6770m = GT555 we would need a similar jump in core values that would mean around 820mhz.

Now things dont work in a linear way and i dont really know how would a OCed GT555 perform against a OCed 6750m/6770m but then again the difference will be small which ever way it goes.

 

555m is a slightly better than the 6770m in everything but synthetic benchmarks. There's a lot of games where it comes out ahead, and only a few where it goes the other way. The 6750m, on the other hand, is slightly better than a 550m.

The 6770m is 725/1600, not 725/800.

The 555m should be faster than the 6750m. We're talking a 20% OC just to match stock. 555m vs 6770m will be close.

@throttling: Try black ops.

 

I highly doubt that 6770m will have 1600mhz memory when the 68xxm and 69xxm have 800-900Mhz memory "Check your source"

Here is a screen of a 6770m 1GB:



As i said 6770m and GT555 have very less performance difference and you have stated the very same.

As far as the OC is concerned when 6750m clock = 6770m clock that means they perform equally, thus anything above that clock would be surplus.

 

Bill,

You are quoting fact on something you have taken from notebookcheck.
I am talking fact from ACTUALLY benching a m14x against a MBP17 at both stock and overclock settings.

The m14x can easily clock to 750/1000 and the MBP is clocked at 780/900 @ 0.955v

I have benched the following games:
BFBC2
SC2
BOPS
COH
Shogun2
MOH 2010

With stock clocks the 555m is slightly better than the 6750, when both are overclocked the 6750 is much better, especially at higher resolutions.

Also I play BOPS and BFBC2 regularily and neither throttle my MBP

 

I think he was talking about the effective clock.But if that's the case, it should be 3200mhz not 1600mhz.

BTW in your comparison,are you sure that both systems have the same CPU?because 2720qm is actually quite a bit faster than 2630qm.

 

If you are talking to me, then yes they are different cpu's but to be fair I ran both cpu's at 2ghz (TB disabled) to eliminate that aspect from the testing. I also found running the cpu at 2ghz didnt really loose me any fps either, maybe I need to find a more cpu bound game

 

I did do some research on this and i got this review of 2310m/2410m/etc which was very useful.

Review Intel Sandy Bridge Processors Gaming Performance - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

As 6750m and GT555 are lesser cards compared to the 460m or 5870m the difference between the two processors would again be minimal.

 

thanks ajaidev, thats exactly as I have found with my real life testing. I only start to see a dip in fps when I cap the cpu at 1.8ghz or lower

 

I think that is true for most games, but not something like Starcraft 2. If you put Starcraft 2 on a bad CPU you get CPU capped.

 

Screen shot. 555m@750 vs 6750@780. Do show.

 

Thats no problem, I am at work now. Will screenshot when I get home. I will be using a 1680x1050 monitor for both to make sure it is even and will run SC2 and DOW2 (benchmark). Anything else you want to see?

 

Any other high end game you have would be nice. Dirt 3 has a pretty good built in benchmark as well.

It's hard to believe. 20% OC on the 6750m matches the 6770m. 6770m on a whole is slightly worse than a 555m. Going another 8% higher to 780 makes it "far better" than a 20% OC'd 555m? I just don't see it.

 

well the stock 6750 is 600mhz, and the 30% OC really makes a big difference.

The 555m stock is 590 so my 760 is a 29% OC.

I agree, looking at the specs the 555m should destroy the 6750 but the 6750 seems to be much more efficient or maybe the ddr5 makes a bigger difference than I would expect. I actually often game at 1200p on the MBP (shogun 2, BOPS, SC2 etc) and still never dip below 30fps.

The 555m may be held back by drivers/optimus as I do notice stutters on occasion and gpu usage drops for a sec. A perfect example is DOW2 retribution, I cannot put the shaders on high or the game stutters, medium shaders and everything else on high is fine.
I have tried different drivers too.

Finally the 555m uses a lot more power than the undervolted 6750 (approx 10-15w more). This was tested with a KWmeter with both cpu locked at 2ghz

 

Do you know they both are the same silicon not to mention same memory and similar memory speeds 'No 6770m does not have 1600mhz base memory speed'

Next they have the same number of ROPs and shaders. So a 20% increse in the clock would result in 720Mhz core which is close to 725Mhz for the 6770m why would a 6750m not perform the same as a 6770m when hardware is the same?

Here is something to ponder over anyone with a GT555 DDR3 do a bench also...

 

@ninja2000: I don't think the 555m is held back by drivers/optimizations. At least based on reviews, it seems to be a slight step above the 6770m. If you mean it dips in a specific game, then yeah, that's believable. Same thing with 6750m/6770m.

Anyway, have you run benchmarks?

@above: I don't think you're comprehending my post properly.

 

Yeah, I am talking game specific as I only really notice it in DOW2 retribution. Which is a game I play a lot. I dont get any dips or stutters in SC2 which I also play a lot. Its just a shame as I am sure the 555m should be able to play DOW2 on highest settings at 900p and I can play DOW2 on the mbp at 1200p on high settings (but no AA)

Sorry didnt get a chance last night as my little one was ill, so I was up with her until past 11. Will try tonight.

 

if you overvolt the radeon card you can get 1GHz above ^^

but the 14x has better cooling even tough it's running with fewer internal fans

 

One thing the M14x has is a 150w power adapter. That should mean no throttling on power. Apple gave us an 85w adapter... with similar specs/power consumption. One can only assume "something" happens under load.

 

Yeah the 85 w adapter is a joke. It probably has high efficiency, but still, while performing demanding tasks there is not enough juice to load the battery at the same time. In fact, I believe it has been proved that the high specced MBPs actually drain the battery if you are plugged in but use more power than the adapter can provide. I guess that is better than throttling though...

 

Been doing it for over a year. Not a heat disaster. In a shocking turn of events, the fans actually ramp up. Crazy, huh?

yep, the battery drains a bit even when plugged in while gaming. a couple of %'s an hour. they could have done much better than the 85w adapter, but you have to play for a long damn time for it to really matter.

But hey...it's better than the CPU/GPU throttling down like we see in other laptop brands.

 

Does anybody know if Apple has any plans to release say a 125 w adapter for the 6750 MBP?

Like I've seen my computer drain battery with a bunch of firefox tabs open + running streaming video on my 1080p monitor + skype/mail/itunes.

So a good amount of use but not even gaming yet. Its like a couple percent over time.

 

I have to be honest, I would rather loose a couple of % an hour whilst heavy gaming than:

1. have the machine throttle
2. carry that huge heavy alienware 150w powerbrick!

Compare the tiny magsafe to a huge dell brick and you will see what I mean. I can take photo's of both side by side if anyone is interested.

Also for Bill, I have started benchmarking, but havent got a lot of time, so I will be putting up the m14x screenshots today and then the mbp17 either tonight or tomorrow

 

Take your time. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I've never owned an Alienware, but I'm in current possession of an OC'd 2011 MBP. But I try to keep bias to a minimum if I can when discussing these things, but you do understand why it's a bit hard to believe nevertheless.

In any case, I've found that 6770m and a good 6750m pretty much OC to exactly the same "stable" clock rates: ~800 core (which is only ~10%). It's just that the 6770ms are able to hit it more consistently.

But I do still think the 555m has a lot more leeway, given your having OC'd it what, 20%?

 

I've not heard anything about it, but it sure would be nice.

 

Its actually a 30% overclock on the 555m (590 > 770) Anything over that and I start getting driver crashes/recoveries in BFBC2. Either way, a 30% overclock is very impressive! There are already custom BIOS's available that have higher voltage on the gpu and people are hitting 800-850 with it. I wont bother with that though as BFBC2 and Shogun2 are the most demanding games I play and both play great at stock let alone with the 30% OC.

My 6750 can hit 800 on 0.955v I expect if I left it at the default 1.05v I could get well over 800. Again though I have no need at the moment so prefer my conservative 780mhz clock.

Also these overclocks are 30% on both laptops which seem to be easily achievable by most and should give a fair comparison for testing.

 

I dont know why ATI Tray Tool is giving me BSOD again and again. Mine runs well at 800/850 on 0.920V on stock voltage using MSI Afterburner i get around 850/950 very easily.

I also think the TDP of stock GT 555 is more than the 6750m/6770m

 

Wow! 800/850 on 0.920v! Thats amazing. Just a thought but could that be the cause of your BSOD? Have you tried increasing the volts slightly?
Best I can get is 800/900 @ 0.955v

Edit - Yes I am sure the TDP is higher on the 555m. Even without undervolting the 6750 runs about 10w lower

 

It ran furmark fine and worked ok with Crysis 2 also. The BSOD comes when i start Ati Tray Tools not when i set the Oced settings. When Ati Tray Tool starts it works flawlessly.

When i click atitray.exe i get a busy sign and then a BSOD and i have not enabled setting new OC freq on startup.

 

What version of ATI tray tools are you running? There was a new version released a couple of days ago, might be worth trying that. V1.7.9.1571

 

Vantage scores?

 

Do 2011 too. Skip 06, couldn't care less about that.

And the usual array of game benchmarks, as many as you can muster up. Dirt 3, Crysis, etc.

 

I tried finding Vantage scores on Google. Didn't come up with anything. Noone benching their Mac's? Come on now...

 

I cant do vantage at the moment as I havent got a 1080p monitor (only 1680x1050).

Have got 3dmark11 and just running benchmarks on the m14x
Will be back in a moment

 

OK M14x benches to start:

 

Now MBP17: