Why The Redirection

This is a forum about notebooks a.k.a. laptops from Apple not iPods or iPhones or iFails, so why do users keep getting redirected toward this forum when they post a thread in OT about iPods or iPhones.

P.S. I think Apple products are overpriced, over hyped, and lack value but if I said that in OT my thread would be locked because we are suppose to discuss Apple matters here I so I guess I'll just say it here.

P.P.S. I'm not looking to start a flame war.

 

The Apple members are generally most of the time most knowledgeable about Apple products, and not just Macs. There is no direct policy on it, but this is how it generally is, not to mention its get much more activity here on the Apple forum, while at the Off Topic forum it generally degrades into an Apple-bashing thread within 10 posts without real merit. Furthermore, there are several threads about the new iPods, several more usually when the iPhone comes around. Most threads are closed by the order of posting, so if there's three duplicate threads, we'll close the two that were made later on.

I'm not saying Apple products are perfect and that complaining about them is wrong, but when it is blatant bashing with posters saying nothing more than "Apple sucks, Apple users are idiots", those are unnecessary comments. The Apple forum here is much more civilized for such discussion in my opinion.

 

Uhh, read the freaking title. " APPLE and Mac OS X". So anything to do with Apple is fair game.

(P.S. I would have responded nicely but your little comment at the very bottom was unnecessary and set you on the road to a flame war and a locked thread, so hope you are happy.)

 

In my opinion it should acceptable to write of my opinion about Apple products anywhere on these forums just like it's done for every other product or game on every other forum on NBR.

I can go in the software forum write now and fine 10,000 people complaining about Windows Vista.

It can be civil and I am not calling an Mac users idiots, I can have a civil discussion, it's usually the others that take it in the opposite direction.

 

And I think it's acceptable for the mods to be able to move it to where they think it's appropriate...

 

The forum needs to be organized to an extent, I don't favour Apple threads and give them more bias. Windows Vista belongs in the Software forum because that is where its supposed to be. If someone asked a question about Antivirus in Off Topic I, and any other moderator would move it to the Security forum. Its just cleaning things up to that extent.

I understand that, but at the same time, it seems discussion at the Off Topic forum leans the other way, doesn't it? Its nearly all Apple bashing everytime an Apple thread shows up there.

I highly welcome a civil discussion on Mac OS X, Mac hardware, iPods, iPhone, Apple TV, any Apple product. None are perfect, none are 100% awesome. And I don't mind if there are such discussions about them comparing to other products. As long as it stays civil and doesn't degenerate into insults.

 

Others take it in the opposite direction because other close-minded Windows people like you have ruined their reputation. That is why there is such hostility. If you are going to say something sucks and then say you are having a civilized discussion, at least have the decency to back up what you are saying, and try not to come off as an ignorant, brash, rude poster.

 

Really, I must've not have noticed because as far as I recall there maybe a couple of Apple "bashers" and apparently a couple seems to be enough for thread lock and redirection of discussion to another forum.

I guess I will now have to come in here to post of my opinion on Apple products instead of commenting on threads in OT.

Close-minded! I've only worked with Mac's since the all in one multi-colored Mac computer days! Heck I even edit with Mac's and at one point owned an iPod, I think I've given Apple enough of my money to be able to speak freely about their products.

As you can see I have edited my original post with arguments that support my position.

 

You are very welcome to come here and post your opinion on Apple products, as you are in any forum here on NotebookReview.

I have no qualms against Apple criticism, I wish my iPod Touch had an aluminum back instead of the chrome back, stuff like that. As long as the complaints of Apple products aren't bashful and pointless like "haha Apple sux you guys are all losers" or "i would never buy an apple product" without a proper opinion on that, those are the type of posts I see in Off Topic and I do not consider good posts here on the forums I manage.

 

But it's off-topic! It's where that kind of stuff should be allowed to happen as long as members don't attack each other.

 

Things like that are why threads are closed; "close-minded Windows people"? I suppose people who own Macs are all open minded? In my experience, usually when someone says something bad about an Apple product, someone will get defensive and respond negatively. I would have proof of this had Sam decided not to delete all but the first post . Then again, the proof can also be found in this thread

Also, I can see where Patriot is coming from, because Ive never seen a thread dealing with the Zune moved to the Windows OS forum...just some food for thought.

 

Huh?

 

That is also true.

You can talk bad about Windows or any other non-Apple product and no one will so much as even look or think twice about your post.

Talk bad about an Apple product and your post will surely be replied to in a negative manner.

 

Off Topic is generally about things not tech-related. As I said before, its more lenient, we allow cellphone threads and stuff, but we will generally consider Apple-related topics to go in this forum. These forum descriptions have been the same since I first joined, they're not the best telltale signs.

 

It would be dangerous for me to come in here and post my opinion of an Apple product since the people in here would mostly being Apple sympathizers I would get flamed.

However, if it is done in OT more people have the chance of seeing it and a more even-sided discussion would take place.

 

I see it the other way around in OT, Apple products are nearly all the time bashed there, its not even-sided at all. But even that doesn't mean anything, really...we do not put Vista threads in Off Topic because of the negative posts if we put it in the Windows forum.

Not to mention, in fact the Apple forum is most often much busier than the Off Topic forum and enjoys more discussion in most cases.

 

Sam, do you remember that day I pmed you about a "windows vs mac" thread and you said basically that it would be ok to do as long as it was civilized? The reason I sent you that PM was because you had deleted all but the first post in that thread because it became a bit of a apple vs windows flame war. If you had read through, you would've seen that near the end, one user came in and immediately took the defensive, and another came in and had apparently reported another user ( probably me ) noting that they usually either helped or bashed people in other threads ( I believe that was actually you Arquis ). But again, you deleted it....

 

NAS Ghost, by the time I got to that thread, it was much off topic, the war going on had nothing to do with the original user who just wanted help for a problem. I cleared the whole thing. There were too many single posts to delete, and even if I did spend the time to delete only the flame-war posts, the rest wouldn't make sense as most were replies to them, and I would then get blamed for editing everyone's posts ("YOU TOOK OUT ALL THE MAC HATE YOU MACFANBOY OF A MOD") because it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I noted that many posts were on topic and good posts, and I apologized for having to delete those and I welcomed anyone to post them back if they wished.

 

P.S. I think Apple sucks, and I just can't figure out why anyone would take offense at so innocuous a comment. Please understand that I'm not very smart though, and these sorts of issues are way too much for me to comprehend.

Thank you for your tolerance and understanding of the fact that I'm slower than most folks but I'm a very lovable guy.

The end.

 

Just a quick 2 cent for the original question. As pointed out before this is an Apple and OSX forum, not just Macbooks forum. I'm also not sure what the problem might be for moving it under here? If you were to visit a forum and were looking for threads about iPods or iPhone would you go under OT? so the thread is moved here to have more chances of discussion, etc.

About the "people will flame me if I talk bad about Apple." So what? As long as you have good facts to back yourself up and don't be a jerk about stating your opinion the only ones who look stupid are the fan boys trying to flame right?

 

Yes, and not to mention moderators will step in if other members are going beyond their boundaries. Its not a free-for-all out there . And as Douten said, if you have the facts or you state your opinion with respect to others members, as well explaining why you have this opinion, there really isn't much to fear. The members here have always been great, this is one of the most peaceful forums out there.

 

Its fine that you deleted it...im just saying you deleted my proof as well lol.

 

A question, NAS Ghost: how else would a thread as you describe be cleaned up? If only the offensive remarks were deleted, you'd leave the following responses which would no longer make sense? That would confuse every reader trying to follow the thread, no?

I reported a similar thread last night; it was a genuine mess. Late this morning the whole morning's worth of posts were deleted, including several of my own. lol

It happens, and at least in the case of the thread I reported, for the best.

 

Yeah I think it just get's people mad when some one say "Apple sucks because you can't right click", or they give a reason that is old or just stupid like they're expensive. Lot's of nice cars are expensive doesn't mean they suck.

 

This is a post from pixelot (no offence to pixelot, just using as an example) on another Apple thread just tonight. This is what I mean...its a post that doesn't state opinions or reasoning behind it, only the bare fact that pixelot doesn't like Macs. It doesn't help the user in any way, because it added no reasoning or explanation.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that there was another way to deal with it and what Sam did was fine with me and I understand why he did it...my only point on the matter is... he deleted my evidence!!! The point where myself and another user were in fact making good points in the defense of windows ( no i dont remember any ) and other mac users were making good points in the defense of macs ( none of these either ), but near the end, one user decided to come in and act as if all that was said was "Macs are overpriced, garbage and cant compare to windows in the least", and this user even thought highly enough of himself to call himself a "God". Now yes Ill admit that the thread went completely off topic, but as even Sam noted, some of the posts were constructive and represented good arguments with sources cited. But this all goes back to the fact that my evidence ; when something bad is said about macs/apple, a Mac user will usually become defensive. At least, that's my experience.

 

Probably true. Just like if I were to post in a Windows OS thread, that OSX is far superior, or that Macs just work, Windows users would go insane! And just so you know, I use PCs and Macs. As a matter of fact, in this thread alone I used a beautiful eMachines desktop earlier which has parts from an ancient Voodoo desktop installed (lol), and am now using a PowerBook which always worked perfectly, until recently when the "R" and bracket keys fell off! Time for a new keyboard. See, they're all real jewels!

 

Yea, but how often does a thread like that pop-up or how many times does a thread in the Windows OS section become a PC vs Mac war? It happens far more often in the Mac OSX section.

 

Almost seems like one group is trying to prove something, while another doesn't have to.

 

Not that I agree with you, NAS Ghost, (that's your opinion, to which you're entitled, of course) but, if so, it would seem that Windows users would be trolling the Mac forums looking to start something, wouldn't you agree? If a Windows user doesn't like Apple/Macs, why else would he bother posting negatively in a Mac forum?

 

That's because the Mac guys don't want to start up a flame war and post BS over in the Windows area. We don't want to pour gasoline on a fire.

On the other hand, over-zealous Windows lovers come over to the Mac section at a rapid rate... which seems like at least one per day, and say "Why is Apple so overpriced?" or "Why can't Macs play all the latest Windows games natively?" in an effort to be a troll.

You want the real reason that Mac users have to be so defensive? It's because we deal with trolls every day. It's not so much that we are trying to convince the trolls that Macs are superior, we just don't want mis-information spread so somebody wanting some genuine info doesn't happen upon the thread and see somebody saying a million bad things about a product they've never used.

I do use Windows (XP) on my laptop primarily (see sig, it's a Panasonic), but when I'm at home I'm on my Mac desktop, and I enjoy everything about it.

While I'm ranting... I kind of wish the Dell guys would stay out of the Panasonic section too... They provide bad/false advice to toughbook users.

 

Almost....

Hmm...so then why does one group usually become defensive?

Ill agree with you on the fact that some Windows users to end up trolling, but I dont think its on purpose ( at least, not always ).I personally think that each OS has something to bring to the table and neither is absolutely superior because each can do the same thing, and each has features and can do things the other cant ( some programs are made for OSX, some are made for Windows, not all of which < from what im told > will work in boot camp ). As far as the negative comments, maybe some people converted from Mac to Windows? I have friend who made that switch and he has sworn off Apple products, and no hes not a gamer.

Modly, arent you rockin a Mac Pro with 2 Quad-core Xeons? Who wouldnt enjoy a machine like that?

I understand what you're saying about PC users bashing Mac users, software and the like, but not all of it is unfounded. Is a lot of what they/we say true? Probably not. But its undeniable that some of the things that PC users say against Macs are true.

 

Seems to me we're close to the point where this very discussion is exactly typical of the point we're making with you, NAS Ghost. As I said, at least in my own experience, most Mac users also use PCs, so why would we care?

I'm in a room right now (it's a mess - I just got out of the hospital) with a PowerBook, and early MBP, a brand new notebook from PNB which I bought for my son, and two old desktops (one a Linux machine, the other has XP installed). Nobody uses the room but me. It's a mess, filled with computers and motorcycle junk. I think I'm probably more or less a typical Mac guy: I like PCs, too. Maybe most don't have all the motorcycle stuff?

 

Very very well put. I agree completely and absolutely. Many times, we aren't trying to make it any worse, we're trying to correct the incorrect information or misguided information.

 

See thats odd because here at school, people that use Macs, ONLY use macs ( at least the Mac users I know ). But in all honesty, I dont know why you would care; if you state the facts with proof and can obviously prove that you are correct in whatever argument you are in, why would you care?

 

Why do I have to state any facts or prove any points? I could take a picture, I suppose, and show you all this crap, but why should I bother. I have what I claim, nothing is new or exceptional - except my son's new machine and a new helmet. lol

Can't speak for others, but I don't feel a need to prove anything, NAS Ghost. BTW, are you a Mac owner? Just guessing here, but I think not.

 

Isnt that what your supposed to do in an argument? ( Im talking in general, not about whats in the room you're in ).

You're right, I dont own a Mac. Though you may not care to know why, Ill tell you anyway. $$$ is the main reason.

 

Well as a previous mod of the ASUS forum, I can honestly say that I hate negative posts about any product. The reason being that this helps no one. If there is a problem with a product then the the only thing that can help is a SOLUTION. This is where forums can be great, when people post a problem and ask for help on how to fix it... but when those topic keep going into an endless war between product X and Y it is stupid.

Sam is doing an amazing job trying to keep this place calm and on topic... and if he deletes a few posts then all the better.

I also don't get why people are surprised that when they start bashing apple in an apple forum that people get defensive. Don't stick your head in a fire and expect to not get burnt. Likewise I don't like "X" but there is no use of me going on "X" forums and moaning about it... that's trolling, and the "X" people should flame me for it.
Furthermore the best response a person can have to a product they don't like is to not buy it.

Please people can we please stop these wars.
Lets get back to finding solutions to peoples problems.
a

 

This is just a discussion, unless you're having an argument all by yourself. LOL

I told you, I don't feel a need to prove anything to anybody. I like and own both PCs and Macs.

If you're short of cash and wish to own a Mac, then I'm sorry you can't swing one at the moment. Don't know what to say other than to save your money until you can pull it off, or buy a less expensive PC - there are some nice ones out there. My boy's new machine is an 11:15 from PNB. Not quite max specs in comparison to with the absolute best available, but it's meant for college use not to enable him to spend his days gaming. Its price was roughly the same as a black MB.

Relax, Underpantman. This is just a discussion - which is what the boards are about. There's no argument going on, and nobody is upset about anything. Now go back to your **** Asus forums! LOL

 

I gave up ASUS 2 years ago, now on apple only, please don't make me go back please !

I guess my response is more about this forum in general, which of late seems to be dominated by apple vs pc wars.

 

LOL

With respect to the last half of your post, unfortunately, you're probably right. Useless, aren't they!

I say to each his own, but honestly, it does irk me sometimes when I see one side slamming the other. People should either buy whatever the hell they like or want, or whatever they can afford which will best serve their needs.

These same sorts of arguments go on at motorcycle forums, but they're much more intense: my bike is faster than yours. Well, my bike is quicker. Mine handles better; mine's more stable; mine's more comfy; mine's a Harley and yours is a rice rocket, it holds it value better than yours, blah, blah, blah . . . At their worst, these forums are mild in comparison.

 

oh,not again...


Sam,remember that pm i send u?i guess now u understand me

 

I love the "why are you guys so defensive?" question.... absolutely love it. Well really, think about it, there would be no need to be defensive if someone wasn't constantly, day in and day out, being offensive and using the same old argument every single day (the $$$ argument btw) to try and prove the product you like is crap. Usually I try to stay out of them, but sometimes people are just spouting so much crap about Apple that isn't even right and doesn't make sense I just have to butt in and correct them...

I just find it so funny though, that nearly all the time the one reason people don't like Mac isn't because it's a crap OS, unreliable hardware, ugly, unstable, etc, it's just because it's pricey. Now, imagine every single day I go into the Windows section here and post "windows vista is crap, blah blah blah, not because I think it doesn't work right, only because the OS disc is expensive, blah blah blah, only dumb people would buy it, blah blah blah," don't you think I'd get a few defensive statements?

 

Would you have preferred I use the term "Windows fanboy"? Its windows users that come to flame on the Mac thread, not Linux or any other user. And no I am not implying Mac users are open minded.

 

Someone ownes a Zune??
I thought that one Guy just switched to an ipod a few months back. lol
a

 

haha nice find.

About an earlier quote who said that everyone in his school who are mac users only use macs: Every single Mac user I know in real life also uses Windows computers - me included.

 

me too,but after using mac i really dont want to go back to win.

 

I know what you mean... If Mac could play the games Windows could I'd never touch Vista again.

 

i hope they ll sort that out with next version (after snow leopard)