Which laptop to buy-Macbook or Sony SZ?

I have been looking at laptops for about 20 days or so. I have reviewed Sony, Apple, Dell, HP, Toshiba, IBM, Acer brands. I have also tried out the following with my own two hands.

1) HP : 2025
2) Toshiba Satellite (2 models : one with a Pent M and other Celeron)
3) Sony TX, SZ, FE, FJ, FS
4) IBM Lenovo
5) Apple Macbook

I need a laptop mainly for preparing for further studies. I want to go for an MS or MS-PhD program. Hence, I need it for web browsing, documents, programming stuff, GRE/TOEFL preparation, paper presentations etc. I feel that my requirements are:
1) It should not be big (14" screen or less)
2) It should not be heavy. I should be able to carry it to conferences, public places, during travel etc. (2.5 kg or less)
3) It should have a large hard disk (100 GB or more would be nice)
4) It should have a good battery life (at least 4 hours)
5) It should be able to play multimedia pretty well (good speakers and good visual display)
6) I would prefer it having a webcam (although that is not an absolutely must)
7) I should be able to play games ocassionally on it (I am more inclined towards strategy games like Age Of Empires, Warcraft etc)
8) It should be reliable and rugged.
9) I would prefer a fast processor keeping in mind that it can't be upgraded later (Core Duo is very preferable, maybe 2.0 GHz).

Cost is not a very important consideration for me at this time. This does not mean that I don't value money, but if I get what I want, I don't mind spending upto a certain limit.

After much consideration I have been able to narrow down my options to two brands : Macbook and Sony SZ.

I would like to know which one to go for. I am a computer engineer. So I have worked with Unix & Linux. But for mainstream work I have always worked on Windows and everything in my office is on Windows. But I am not such a Windows Fan. So, please help me out in deciding which laptop would be good for me.

 

I think probably either one would work for you, frankly. The only factor is that you'll need to buy a copy of Windows XP to install on the MacBook (at least using Parallels). If you're going to be doing development, it's very likely you might need to use some Windows-only IDE's and compilers.

The HD is incredibly easy to replace on the MacBook, so you would probably be well of getting a 120 or 160GB drive and replacing it, so you have plenty of room for both OS X and XP and whatever apps you put in.

I think the MacBook makes sense if you're interested in starting to use OS X, while still having the ability to do stuff in Windows.

 

yeah zadiillo pretty sumed up everything..
U get a webcam with the macbook
And a glossy screen for multimedia
and a core duo processor 2.0GHz
U get the best of both worlds in a mac..

 

To be fair, the SZ also has a webcam, glossy screen and the 2.0GHz processor (at least on some of the higher end configurations).

 

Different beasts really. How important is gaming to you? The SZ has a GeForce 7400 which is heaps better then the GMA950. If by AOE you mean Age of Empires III, then probably you should go with the SZ. If not, and considering you have a Unix background, I would say the Mac is more bang for the buck, and you can have both OS X and Windows if needed. Office work can be done as well in one OS as another, and development work is not necessarily Windows dev work.

 

naturally since you posted in the Apple portion of the forum theres going to be some bias (varying to different degrees) in the answers you are going to receive.

They are both good machines but it really comes down to your needs and I can sum it up for you.

Sony has better gaming performance, so if you game often or whatnot then right off the bat, its what you'll want. Sony does have a tradeoff even when the specs are the same, you can't run OS X (legit at least) on it, but you can run linux and windows on it and some unix.

The Macbook, isn't going to compare in gaming performance however, I believe its a little bit cheaper, but not by much. Now with the Macbook you aren't restricted to any type of OS, you can run any OS out there that can run on the x86 architecture, the advantage of this if your a developer is that you aren't limited in what platforms you can program for.

Now you can decide what you think is going to be worth more to you in the long run.

 

Yeah, definitely (you would get a very different set of responses if you posted this question in the main "what notebook do i buy?" forum, or especially the Sony forum).

For what it's worth, my previous laptop was a Sony Vaio S360, and I actually thought it was pretty solid all around. But I sold it because I missed not having OS X, and found that I honestly just never used it for gaming anyway (even though the Mobility Radeon 9700 in it was capable of handling some games quite well). That's the primary reason I'm looking more at the MB or MBP and not the Sony SZ series as a replacement, because the main selling point for me, the gaming ability, is just something I realize I'm not going to use a laptop much for.

Although also for me, given the cost similarities between an MBP and a Sony SZ, even the underclocked X1600 in an MBP seems to perform on par with the GeForce 7400, so it ends up being kind of a wash.

 

I will echo everyones else's opinion.

If you are going to do a fair amount of gaoming go with the SZ, if not the Mac will be much more versatile, and would be great for programmin g since with parallels you could hae linux, Windows and OS X all on one machine. Plus don't forget that Apple has about the best support in the industry and Sony's leaves much to be desired.

 

Thanks for all the prompt replies. I do have some doubts regarding Mac OS X.

1) Will I be able to run Windows on it properly? I mean will all my office documents (Word, Excel, Powerpnt, Access, Outlook, PDF) open in OS X. Will i be able to save them after editing in OS X and again open in Windows without any problems?

2) Will softwares like Visual Studio.NET, Oracle, SQL server etc run properly when I run them in WinXP (on top of OS X using parallels or in dedicated Win XP mode using BootCamp)?

3) How is the sharing of files between OS X and Win XP? I mean can I save my MP3 files in one OS and access them from the other? Or do I have to have multiple copies of the same file?

4) What is the difference between Bootcamp and Parallels. Which one is preferable. Personally, I think shutting down the machine and rebooting with another OS is very cumbersome and does not solve the problem. I mean I may like to work in OS X and then if required, may access Windows for a certain job, and then work back in OS X. Please clarify which one is better.

5) What is the battery life of Macbook? Does it overheat? While i was testing it, it got quite hot with one hour of usage.

6) Isn't the weight of a Macbook (2.5 kg) a little bit more. For those who have tried it out actually, please let me know whether it offers the freedom of mobility or not?

7) What upgrades will be useful if I buy the Macbook? I mean in terms of RAM, HDD etc.

 

1) As long as you have a Mac version of MS Office it will run fine, and open all those files your asking about. Windows MS office can read Macs MS Office and vice versa. PDFs aren't a problem either, however PDFs have a built in viewer, so no need for adobe reader.

2) Yes they should run fine.

3) Both OS'es use different file system formats and the only filesystem that OS X can write to that the Windows OS can read from is Fat32. Windows can't read Mac OS X's filesystem. So you might have a issue there, however usually an external drive formatted at that is what most users here use.

4.) Well each update is improving on Parallels. I suggest looking at Mac Users guide sticky, it contains a link to what Boot Camp and Parallels are and what is best for you.

5.) Depends on the settings, if you have it at lowest brightness, wifi on and BT off, you get about 4:50. Full brightness with wifi on and BT off will get you about 3:24

6.) Definitely offers the mobility, its about the same size as a double subject college ruled notebook. It weights 2.3 kg to be exact, its really NOT that heavy.

7.) User upgrades are HDD or RAM without worrying about voiding your warranty.

 

1. Yes, that goes for OS X and Windows. The only problem with those mentioned would be Access, but if you are using Parallels, that won't be a problem as long as you have Access installed in Parallels.

2. Again, yes. What you have to remember is that whether you are using Boot Camp or Parallels, you are running Windows. It is not emulation. Boot Camp is an actual Windows install and Parallels is a Virtual Machine. Both are fully functional versions of Windows.

3. If you format you XP partition into FAT32, you can view it from your OS X partition and write to it. If it is NTFS, the Mac can read it, but not write. Going the other direction, you will need 3rd party software such as MacDrive for Windows to read or write to OS X.

4. Boot Camp is full Windows by itself. Parallels is a virtual machine and runs inside OS X. Parallels is better IMO if you can take the slight performance hit. Also, if you ever get an infected Windows in Parallels, just delete it and start over!

5. I have read it can last over 4 hours. It should not overheat, especially after the new SMC update which is about one week old and not likely on the system you tested.

6. Yes for a 13.3" notebook it is a little heavy.

7. Get 2GB of RAM if you will use either Rosetta or Parallels, and don't buy it from the Apple Store. Also, if you are going to use Parallels, get the biggest notebook hard drive you can afford, again not through Apple though.

HTH! Good luck!

 

Thanks a lot to both xbandaidx and cashmonee for the super-prompt replies. I understand the following from all the replies to my main query:

1) Apple support is very good and reliable (better than Sony's). Hence, I can be assured of good after-sales service. Apple is a reputed company that will live upto its name.

2) Build quality of Macbook is very good. It can be used ruggedly (i.e. can be subject to good mobility e.g. carrying to office daily, taking out to restaurants etc).

3) Battery life with normal usage should be 3.45-4.00 hours (average brightness, wi-fi on, bluetooth off).

4) Screen size (13.3") glossy and very good. The size is optimum for doing a variety of tasks.. say watching movies, playing games ocassionally.. and most importantly.. reading documents and typing for say 3.5 - 4.0 hours in one go.

5) PCMCIA slot is missing. But I won't mind it much (Should I ?.. please tell)

6) Battery overheating is not much of a problem and I won't be unhappy after 3.0 hours of continuous use.

7) A dedicated graphics card is missing. But if I am not into very heavy games, I should have no problems with performance.

8) Mac OS X is a very stable, high-performance, feature-rich, advanced OS which is better than Windows XP Pro. Learning curve will not be much high.

9) Using Bootcamp/Parallels I can run both XP and OS X. XP will function normally as it does in normal PCs. Performance degradation will be negligible. I can install all Windows applications and they will work fine (eg. MS-Office, Visual Studio, SQL Server, Oracle etc)

10) From Mac OS X I can read & write to Windows FAT32 file system. But to read OS X files from within Windows, I must use a 3rd party software like MacDrive. Also, Office for Windows and Office for OS X can be used very compatibly and I will have no problems sharing the same files.

11) I should upgrade my RAM to 2 GB for optimum performance (Please confirm whether this is needed or 1 GB is sufficient?) This RAM should be had from some other reliable source (not Apple Store) for purely financial reasons.

12) I should upgrade my hard disk to at least 160 GB (but not from Apple Store). (Please let me know whether a 5400 rpm HDD is preferable or a 7200 rpm HDD)

13) I can get all software I run on Windows for Mac OS X too. Most are freeware and I won't be spending a fortune. (I don't want to)

14) Macbook's weight = 2.3 kg won't bog me down. I can easily carry it to work, to restaurants, in flights, in the train etc.

I have some doubts too:

1) Which MacBook is preferable of the three (white 1 , white 2, black 3). I have decided to go for white 2. Is there any special advantage or disadvantage in going for the black one or is it just pure color (and of course +20 HDD GB)

2) Is the MacBook Pro worth spending more? I decided not to go much further into that since I think the big screen and the extra weight will limit my mobility. But I hope I am not sacrificing much performance. Please guide me on this.

 

No need to delete, and that may be the biggest advance of Parallels over bootcamp: just save a snapshot while your system is ok, and then revert to it if you get infected. No need to reinstall anything, no downtime, no pain. I am eagerly awaiting VMware for OS X, it should provide better USB support and compability with their other programas and a ton of virtual machines you can find ready on the net (and legally). And it may be free (as in beer).

 

There isn't a specific advantage for the black model other than the color really. Essentially, the black MacBook with an 80GB HD and superdrive costs $150 more than a white MacBook with a superdrive and the HD upgraded to 80GB. It just comes down to whether you like the black finish enough. One thing that could be said is that the black finish is more of a matte finish, whereas the white one is like lucite or something, and might be more prone to scratching if you don't use any invisibleshields or something.

 

Depends. You have fewer expansion options. Say, we are heading towards a 802.11n standard (wi-max); probably the first external cards will be PMCIA/PCExpress, USB cards will come much later due to size (and cost more). But if you don't have a need for it now, you can probably live without it.

Using Bootcamp there is no performance hit at all - in fact it runs faster than most Windows notebooks. MS itself used a MBP to demonstrate Vista. Parallels performance hit is more a perception, due to lack of good graphics driver support in virtualization.

Depends how heavy will be the tasks you're running on it. 1GB is plenty for most users; if you plan to use Parallels, or Rosetta apps like Photoshop, then 2GB is recommended.

160GB is like the biggest SATA drive available today for notebooks. It will be quite expensive. Personally, I would opt for a smaller internal HD, like 100GB, and add an external firewire or USB2 drive (better to have both interfaces).


I have some doubts too:

As said, there is no difference between the black MB and an upgraded white MB other than the color/matte finish. As for the MBP, you sacrifice mobility for better performance - specially having a decent GPU, which the MB lacks - and more screen real-state and resolution. The MBP is very light for its size and I don't consider a 15", specially one as thin as the MBP, unluggable. Try taking a test-drive at an apple store or with a friend. It is much more expensive than the Macbook though.

 

Your honesty and frankness is refreshing... especially in an Apple forum.

 

It is rumored the Macbook will be getting an updated integrated graphics processor here:

http://guides.macrumors.com/GMA_X3000

Also because of the rumors of Macbooks with Merom I will be waiting at least till September 12th before deciding on any purchase. From what I am reading these updates will give notable gaming performance improvement if they occur and I would be more inclined to keep the Macbook for years.

 

The GMA X3000 isn't necessarily going to give you better gaming performance (from what i've heard, it actually might have worse gaming performance than GMA950 - the only selling point is Shader 3.0 support).

If 3d gaming is something that matters to you at all, the only real options are the MBP with the X1600 or the Sony SZ with the GeForce 7400.

 

As for the n wireless comment wooky has made, quite honestly it's a bit overkill really, because g wireless already does a fantastic job, and increasing how much mbps you can get is pointless since most home bandwidth is limited to around 5 mbps (the states) anyways. The only advantage is local networks if you do a lot of local file transfers, other than that its really nothing worth worrying about.

 

Well, I think the more appealing selling point of 802.11n would be the larger range, more than just the speed.

 

How big of a range would someone need?

I have a cheap Netgear that I can pick up 8 houses down the road, I dont know many people that have houses that large. Don't forget you have an atheros card here, which is incredibly sensitive and can pick up networks at greater distances than most cards can.

 

It really seems to depend, I guess....... I know I've heard of some people who with 802.11g cards have trouble getting a good signal even at different locations inside their house.

 

From what I understand the X3000 is part of Santa Rosa, which is not due until Q2 2007. I doubt it will be in the next revision, maybe the one after that.

 

I think you should get a Macbook, everything is obvious for you except for the GPU which is the Intel GMA 950, on OS X where it only takes 64 MB of shared system ram, I ran WC3 TFT and it ran alright, the only problem was I couldn't click over my units, if you want to game, get a normal USB mouse. Also if you want to game at the Macbooks full potential use Bootcamp and game on Windows because the GMA 950 shares 224 MB of system ram thus meaning it should run a lot better. Best of luck! The SZ is also a nice notebook.

 

Your in the wrong board to post this,you should post this in "What notebook should I buy?" because many people here would say macbook.Anyways back on topic I would get the Sony SZ because you might need to run programs that Mac can't unless you want boot camp or parrellels(although its cuts your ram in half).I am not a fan on Sony due to the terrible support and quality.Apple has fairly good support and quality.Like people say you can't compare Apples to Oranges.

 

As you said, LAN based traffic would greatly benefit from wi-max, specially with a lot of machines on your LAN and if you plan to do video streaming and large file copies. Anyways, I can assure you people will find innovative ways to use the extra bandwidth (remember how 640kb ought to be enough to everybody?), and wi-max was only one example; having more expansion options is a good thing.

 

Just to clarify, 802.11n and WiMax are two pretty different technologies.

 

You're right, my bad. Wi-max is in fact based on 802.16.

 

I am finally narrowing down to getting a MacBook or a MacBook pro. That means I am convinced about Apple and MacOS. Now, the botheration is just to get a MacBook or a MacBook pro. If I get a MacBook, it will be the 2.0 GHz white one. (I kinda like white over black). If I go for a MB Pro, it will be the starting model (since the upper ones are too costly for their configuration). Then, I will upgrading the machines to more RAM and buy Apple Protection Plan for 3 years. Please help me decide whether to go for the smaller MB or larger MBPro. I think I should go for the MB because I want a notebook which I can carry comfortably, work in my lap, use during travel etc (which means a smaller screen is OK), which has good battery life and costs lower. But will I really miss out much by not going for the MBP? Please help me make a final decision. You can check out my two previous replies in this thread to have a look at my requirements.

 

Based on your previous replies, I think the MB should be fine for you. Outside of 3d gaming, etc. the MacBook and MacBook Pro actually have almost identical performance in most applications, etc.

However, if your concern is just portability, please note again that the MBP is only slightly bigger than the MB, and the 15" MBP is still certainly something that can be carried comfortably.

But I think that the MB should be fine for you.

-Zadillo

 

I have finally made up my mind and given my order.
MacBook 2.0 GHz (white)
RAM upgraded to 2 GB
Apple Protection Plan for 2 additional years
External Lacie HDD 120 GB USB 2.0

I am sure I have made the correct decision keeping in mind my requirement.
I must thank all those wonderful people out there who have helped me in making this decision. Thank you all for your cooperation and support.

Now I am waiting for the delivery of this machine. Friends, I will still be requiring a lot of support from your side regarding using Mac OS X and other stuff. I hope I will be able to satisfy my queries through this excellent forum.

 

Now I would like to ask you guys of what to ask alongwith the MacBook for its protection, maintenance etc. I.e. Now I have bought the car, what sort of accessories should be bought for it. ???

 

Cool, congrats on your purchase! Hope you'll enjoy it!

You might want to look at InvisibleShields:

http://www.shieldzone.com/category/laptops/

These can help protect the finish of the laptop from scratches, etc.

Marware's "Protection Pack for MacBook" is also nice, provides protection for the keyboard and the wristwrest area:

http://www.marware.com/cgi-bin/WebO...catalogCatID=224&wosid=NdihXX4Qx9lmsOFK1JgeB0

You'll probably also went to get a nice case and possibly notebook sleeve designed for the MacBook. You have a lot of options there, but a few good ones are:

http://www.tombihn.com
http://www.sfbags.com
http://www.booqbags.com

And others too; these guys make a variety of cases, backpacks, etc. as well as simpler notebook sleeves and basic cases. You can find ones tailor made for the MacBook.

-Zadillo

 

Also check out xbandaidx's sticky at the top of this forum. There is a lot of great info in there.

 

Congratulations. I wouldn't have upgraded the RAM with Apple, but that's your call. Good luck with your soon to be brand-new Macbook.

 

Yeah, seriously, if the order hasn't shipped yet, I'd really consider getting them to change it and keep the stock RAM. It will be MUCH cheaper to buy 2GB of RAM from newegg.com or macsales.com or ramjet.com or just about anywhere else. And with the MacBook, it is insanely easy to install the new RAM.

Just given the very high price of paying Apple for the 2GB RAM upgrade, it is a lot better to do that part yourself.

-Zadillo

 

I would agree with you on this, but its different for everyone. Personally I would upgrade through Apple had they offered them at a price range that falls in with the rest of the industry so I can avoid upgrading myself, and having to switch out my ram to 'prove' to apple its not my memory causing the issue. Hopefully Apple will go down in price someday on their memory end.

The part I agree on is your saving yourself a lot of money, and not to mention the amount you save would be worth having to deal with that whole "swap your memory with the one the computer came with to prove its not your memory causing problems".

I would imagine its not shipped out yet, custom orders take longer. I ordered base on everything of mine and it was shipped out the next day.

 

It's one thing I wonder about, regarding Apple's higher RAM prices..... I noticed at macsales.com that they have a variety of RAM modules from different manufacturers, but they also sell "Samsung Factory Original" 1GB RAM sticks that cost $159, well above what other 1GB RAM sticks cost. It seems like this is the RAM that Apple sells you when you get 1GB or 2GB of RAM. I guess that if this Samsung RAM is in fact more expensive than other RAM, it might sort of explain why Apple charges what they do for their factory RAM.

Not sure exactly why this particular Samsung RAM costs so much more though.

 

I know the ram I got with my MB wasn't Samsung ram, it was from micron, I'd take a look at their prices.

 

Also having Apple upgrade your RAM makes it "customized" and harder to get a replacement if I am not mistaken.

 

I have n't got the Apple RAM. It will be done by the supplier giving me the machine. It's Transcend brand.