When to buy: Montevina or Nehalem

I have used many macs at school (running leopard, tiger, and jaguar). I am extremely familiar with macs and i do wish to purchase one within the next 10 months. i have done all my research however nothing beats personal opinion. I will not need a mac until next spring/summer, however i want one right now. buying and then selling is not really an option, i can only buy once and then live with that purchase for the next 3-4 years.

My question is wait two months for Montevina or wait a possible 8-10 months for Nehalem (It will be hard but i think i could wait) however I wont wait forever so as soon as Nehalem drops i will buy. But Montevina doesnt look that bad right now either. Anyone else in the same position?

What do you think?

Buy it if you need it is not the answer i really want

P.S. I am in vancouver so i have many options and places to buy from

 

Unfortunately, that's about the answer you will get from most.
Montevina will be a nice upgrade from the current platform, which I'm waiting for.
IIRC, nehalem will be less of an upgrade from montevina, than montevina will be from santa rosa.
I'm in the same boat as you with waiting, but I personally couldn't wait another 10 months.

 

Nehalem is the major upgrade that is expected to be more than the jump from Pentium to Core, so if you can wait for that, definitely! Nehalem's going to have several major changes that significantly speed up processing (I've heard recent reports that with 2.6 GHz Penryn vs. 2.6 GHz Nehalem, the Nehalem chip was 50% faster).

And jvis, we finally got our Apple Store !!

 

I've been in the "market" for a new computer too and i ALWAYS get people saying that you should buy it when you need it. To me that does not cut it for me and i bet it does not do it for you. I've been holding off for about a 1 year now. Have i needed a new computer? yes. I do cad work at my college and some rendering on the side. A 1.73 ghz pentium m processor does not cut it in my world, but as far as a personal computer doing that work, i have patience. One thing about patience is, that it never lets you down. Talin29 does not know that the montevina upgrade is no where near the upgrade that nahalem will be. Nahalem is the most significant architecture change that intel has ever done since the beginning of the pentium processor. But that is about a year off at least for the laptop mainstream market.

 

You buy it when you need it.

You can NOT keep up. Period. If you play the waiting game, you'll always be waiting, esp. with Apple given their relatively predictable release cycles.

 

Lithus, when i bought my first laptop, i saved $750 with a dell coupon code waiting all summer for the right time to pull the trigger. People who buy it when they need it are rich, and don't need to worry if the laptop they are purchasing will last them as long as they need, or is to expensive.

 

The "buy it when you need it" advice is not financial advice. Obviously wait until you can get a good deal. "Buy it when you need it" refers to not waiting until the 'next big thing' comes out, because there will always be a 'next big thing' around the corner.

 

I beg to differ from Lithus.

Technology advances in steps rather than a linear slope. Ideally you would buy it at the start of a new step. (Why I'm waiting for the 9xxxm from nvidia)

To answer this question. What are u using this laptop for that's gonna need that kind of power?

 

I was trying to explain why "buy it when you need it" is bad advice financially and technologically.

 

I stand corrected.

I admit, not knowing enough about nehalem, it's still a bit far away. It was my understanding, that it was more of a speed bump than a major upgrade.
Montevina is a pretty decent upgrade as well from the current santa rosa platform.
Again, I stand corrected.

 

haha... when to buy...
here's what i know (don't own a mac. i've only been reading up on this stuff recently.)
from what i understand montevina won't be much of a speed update for the MBP, as a video one. 800mhz fsb to 1066mhz fsb won't be much of a bump, so i personally am just waiting for a gpu upgrade. any1 else think this will happen in july, and not in august as initially rumored?

perhaps i need to be corrected, but nehalem is just a new line of processors correct? (similar to memron or penyrn?) this won't be until later, i'm hearing/thinking 2009. and by then there might even be a new MBP design. which would be cool (i have to buy before then, so i won't get one.) however if you can wait, then wait. if you want one now, just wait for montevina.

 

As a matter of fact, the GMA x4500 will be a significant improvement over the x3100 (about twice as fast roughly).
The CPU FSB is only getting a bump from 800MHz to 1066MHz. But the RAM FSB will be as high as 1333MHz, a huge increase from 667MHz.
Linky.

 

same boat here ...wait to buy macbook 2.1ghz cause i think when montevia launch in macbook it will lower the price of current processor T8100!!!
am right?

 

lets be realistic.. the next upgrade to the macbookpro will prob be some thing like this

++rebrand the 8600gt to a 9600gt or some such card with = power

++add Montevina and prob not get hybrid Sli mobos because mac are more intel obsessed than concerned about battery life (constant 1upmanship with PC).

add possibly a 3.0gig duelcore (would be pushing the thermal limit of the already HOT MBP case) some people say it will house quad... i say good luck i think it wont get quad let alone any Nehalem based processor until a totaly new case/ thermal cooling method is devised.

all in all this is little upgrade.. and if u get a 15inch u will prob get about the same power now as then.. with 1-2 new side features... some dif wireless etc..

if your thinking about it now.. chances are u would "like" it now.. just get it now imo i cant see the current MBP case housing any quadcore and Nehalem sounds impossible in your time frame as they will be in desktop awhile fist till they can be cool enough for mobile no? so you will prob be waiting for a longer time than u expect.


fact is hardware atm is way ahead of user software requirements.. even more so for apple users.. what are u going to use this notebook for exactly? and when do you wish to start what you are doing. That should be what u gage a purchase on not some dream of the ultimate hardware.

 

Does Nehalem come out with native USB 3.0 support?

 

i think people want the "speed bump" for that extra speed in hopes that this computer will last them quite awhile. heh.

 

My problem really is that Nehalem is the biggest thing for Intel. Montevina is just a speed bump. The difference between Montevina and Santa Rosa is not very noticeable.
The difference between Montevina and Nehalem is huge.

I promise you Nehalem will not get "old" quickly.

After Nehalem all intel will do is minor speed bumps and shrinking of the chip.
Meaning if I buy Nehalem my notebook wont get "old" as quickly because essentially the same technology will be used for the next 3-5 years.

And trust me my patience will only last me till next summer, ill burst if i wait any longer. Im not prepared to wait past next summer.

I dont have the $$$ to shell out for the pro, and i dont really need the dedicated GPU

 

Is it confirmed when the Montevina update will come out? And is it known if macbooks will also be updated. Sorry for being a bit OT.

 

I definitely do not want/need or am willing to pay for quad core Nehalem. If i wanted it Id get a desktop. what i want is a notebook that will have the most longevity hardware and aesthetics wise (yes i would like a case redesign that could come with either of the upgrades) and I think the answer would be Nehalem. But it is hard to wait, and it might not even be worth it. I also do not need ultimate hardware, right now i am typing this on a 6 year old dell desktop (far from ultimate ) what i do want is a notebook that will be up to date for the longest. Montevina will be ancient by thye time Nehalem hits the market.

 

Montevina out on July 14th Macbooks will get it around mid august as the Montevina chipstes with the intel GMA's are set to hit the market early august. Dont expect MB updates until Mid August. Yes the Macbook will be updated.
Hope that helps.

 

Do we have any data about the anticipated heat from Nehalem?

 

As i know TPD ll be 25 W for lover models and 35 W for top one.
So not so much difference. But hopefully it ll work better with speed stepping and other new features.

 

i'm hoping the pro gets it on the 14th or in july.... an update in august might be too late for me, and might be too late for apple to stay competitive

 

Sorry i wasn't really clear.
In another thread Talin 29 posted a link stating that all Montevina chipsets that would utilize dedicated graphics will come out july 14th

The Montevina chipsets with integrated graphics will come out in early August however.

It is probably true that they will release both notebooks at the same time meaning yes it is possible for an August release date. However apple has the option to do the MBP first and then the MB. The latter situation is probably unlikely so i am afraid to say you might have to wait till August.

 

I'd have to say the right time to buy is Nehalem.

 

Thanks im leaning towards waiting (Nehalem) but my greedy side says now

 

why would they do that? HP, toshiba, Dell, lenovo all go montevina the second it comes out. unless they have a full redesign planned, they should do their refresh at the same time as every1 else imo.

 

As i had stated on July 14th the only mac they could upgrade would be the MBP because the integrated hardware wouldn't be out yet. I said they could go Montevina right away for the MBP OR they could wait until the integrated chips come out and then release all their notebooks at one time.

i never said one would certainly happen, i said those are two likely scenarios.

 

yea, i agree with you there. so we'll see on the 14th. sadly i'll be on my family vacation... and i wont be able to bring a new laptop with me. so gay. ill have to lug this 17 inch HP one more time on the plane.

 

thepreacha, you looking to jump into the mac world too? Cuz I am and I am counting off the days until I get my hands on one

 

lightest 15.4 inch on the market, top notch video card, backlit keyboard, magsafe power adapter, LED display, really fast CPU and wirless N. and that one other minor detail: OSX leopard!

 

I completely disagree with these statements. Nehalem will age just as everything else ages. Check out Moore's Law as an example. Intel or any other company won't stop developing and certainly won't stop exponentially increasing computer power. I guess my point is... what are you going to be doing with your computer that you are worried about speed at this point? A pentium 4 is more than enough if you are doing things like word processing, surfing the web, listening to music, or watching video. I'm sure you do more than that, but what I'm saying is even the computers out right now shouldn't really get "old" until down the road maybe in 3-5 years (pretty much all technology has this shelf-life) or more where things start not working on it or something comes out that isn't compatbile that you must have. Now that Montevina is just about out, people are already looking past it to Nehalem just as people looked past Penryn to Montevina. By the time Nehalem is here people will just say "don't get REV. A, REV. B will have all the kinks out" plus whatever other features. Whatever you buy, just buy right after an update is out and don't worry about it getting old since that's a guarantee

 

No way man lol. What will make Montevina ancient when Nehalem hits exactly?? You're saying 1 year after the not even released yet Montevina hits, it will be ancient?! The only way it will even feel old is if you use a newer computer then go back to the old one and realize it's slower. I don't think the day Nehalem comes out, there will be some huge software release and nothing will work on Montevina anymore lol. Sure, Nehalem will be faster...that certainly doesn't affect the things up until then. My pentium 4 is "ancient" which has parts from 5-6 years in it including a 4200 RPM hard drive. It looks like you are using the same thing as I am, so don't even worry about it getting ancient because it doesn't matter what it is, in 5 years it will be considered SLOW no matter what it is.

 

It depends on what your needs are. I've already been waiting forever, so I'm planning on buying a MBP at the next update (my first mac ). I'm sure I'll be happy with this next update, even the current model I'd be happy with but I would rather buy right at an update rather than right before one. Whatever you do, I suggest doing this too to get the best value.

 

What are you going to be doing on it? I mean sure, Nehalem sounds like it would be great to have... but do you think you would be unhappy with even the current model? I think waiting a year or however long would be tough, or not worth it but it's up to you of course. I'm kind of looking forward to this update as it's the last update with Front Side Bus (FSB).

 

montevina = chipset/mobo for penyrn
nehalem = processor
different things

penyrn = processor, becomes 'ancient' when nehalem comes

though i'm pretty sure montevina isnt compatible with nehalem, right?

 

Just because it was the one before it and there's a new one out doesn't mean it's ancient, and how exactly is it considered 'ancient' by any means. Does it really matter if it isn't compatible?? It's not like you can replace a CPU in a laptop anyways. All I'm saying is, it's the software that needs to be compatible and they don't out date software and make it not work by the time the next one comes out. Just the way it was worded made it seem like this upcoming update will be worthless pile of hardware come next year which isn't true in the least bit. I think everyone's obsession over Nehalem is either they want the latest and greatest and either don't know why, or don't actually need it. I think a reason to upgrade to Nehalem is because at that time you will be ready to since your current computer is either not functioning properly or is getting old. If you have no other reason than that, it doesn't really make sense to talk about it. Ancient is the wrong word to use in my opinion, especially talking about something that comes out 1 year or less after lol. It's not like it will stop working just because Nehalem comes out.

 

i'm not too worried/excited about nehalem. it's just a processor. they come out all the time. at least with montevina most comps get new gpu's, better wireless, and faster memory. and put that together with a penryn processr, and that's a pretty good deal i think. and by the time nehalem comes out, these other components i speak of probably wont be as good. for example the HP dv6000 series. best vid card you can put on it is a nvidia 8400, but you can get one of the fastest penryn processors put in there. i play games, so that makes no sense to me. so idk.

 

I would not call the existing processors ancient at all when Penryn comes around. Yes, Penryn offers major improvements, but the fact is, software has yet to catch up with all the hardware improvements. We have very little software taking advantage of multi-core processors and 64-bit, when both are getting more and more widely used. So the Merom, Penryn chips are still very powerful for many years to come, depending on when software catches up.

 

Yeah, I play some games too. That's what I'm looking forward to the most, I think, are the new GPU's. The way I see it, even a slight improvement over apple's current 8600M GT could be the difference between a playable and non-playable game. Of course the less power, less heat, longer battery, faster memory/cpu all sound nice too . I would be happy with the current model as is, but that update shouldn't be too far away and I still have a working computer so I'm good at least until that happens.

Yeah, an 8400 doesn't really make any sense if you want to play games at least. Actually it would be hard to think of a reason for the higher end processors if you don't game or at least do some sort of work that requires it. At least gaming uses pretty much all of a system's resources (like crysis for example). GPU is the bottleneck, so why would they use an 8400...seems kind of strange to me.

 

I stand corrected. It is just I, like most people, want the best thing. when it comes out I hear of another hing and then want that. Oh well, I am only human. Maybe I will buy Montevina, I'll just have to wait and see.

 

Hey, I'm the same way for sure. Yeah, the problem is all these people come on forums and just talk about something coming out after the next thing so it's like an unattainable level of happiness! lol I don't know a better way to put it. It's just easy to be mislead into thinking something sucks because something better is coming out... but that will only lead to waiting forever. The current hardware is amazing, and I bet you would find that it's more than enough power than what you're looking for...I know I'm definitely only waiting until this update for sure. I think the best advice I saw someone give was wait as long as you can and buy at the updates, but buy right at the updates or wait. It makes sense, and besides some games I can't think of any software out there that would somehow take more power than the current MBP's push. If the software was written for hardware that doesn't yet exist, who are they selling it to? If you feel like waiting for the update after this one then go for it, but I find myself obsessing enough reading all these forums lol. No way I can wait another possible year or however long.

 

I can certainly tell you that you are right, I am not a gamer, and the processor now (Montevina) will do me just fine. Nehalem, and this and that, that will come after it will work better but it wont make a Montevina Macbook any worse. I guess ill take a good second look at Montevina.
Thank you very much cg165 you probably set me straight, if not i would wait forever and then i would never get a macbook.

 

Can someone break down the key differences between Montevina and Nehalem? Will the upgrade to Nehalem be that much better or more improved than Montevina?

 

Here's one article to get you started.

 

They're not the same category. Montevina is a processing platform, Nehalem is the processor. Montevina replaces Santa Rosa, Nehalem replaces Penryn .

 

Thank you.

 

Nehalem won't use the Front Side Bus technology anymore which is supposedly holding processors back at this point. But honestly, I can't think of a single new update (processor or chipset) that wasn't better than the one it's replacing. So with every update being better than the one before it, it's really more along the lines of how long do you want to wait? When Nehalem comes, whatever comes after it will be better than the first generation Nehalem . I don't know what you're planning on using your computer for, but for most people...they won't really use all of its power even with the current model.

 

so wait, they are getting rid of front side bus? idk how that works, but then what would they do? how would the memory work/

 

They ll integrate part of north bridge in processor.
so u dont need to have FSB, it ll be look like Hiper Transpord in nowadeys AMD platform