Using MBP with windows as primary OS.

Hi all, and thanks in advance for your time.

I've had two goes at getting a working Sony SZ. The first time with an SZ1 I encountered the space bar issue. After some hassle they replaced that machine with the SZ2 equivelant.

However, when the model was revised they changed screens from the SZ1 series. The new screen displayed too much pixel noise (screen looked dirty, but after closer inspection you could see the cause was pixels transitioning between white and grey). Since they couldn't put an SZ1 screen in my SZ2 they are giving me a refund.

I'm not sure I want to waste anymore time trying the SZ3, so am now looking at alternatives.

Anyway I digress.

The 15" MBP is a little bigger form factor then I would prefer. But considering how thin it is, I think I can compromise. The added screen res will be great and the better gfx card will come in handy for vista. I only play a few games on my laptop, so the occaisional incompatibility won't bother me too much.

However, for work I need Windows. So are any of you running a MBP with windows as your primary OS (i.e. for most of your key usage).

Can I use this machine as a windows machine transparently, or are there some caveats, incompatibilities, etc that still exist.

 

I have not run into any big problems. My HP printer works fine, my Sprint A900 phone works fine when I connect it via USB for phone-as-modem to get on the net with EVDO; in either OSX or XP. I can plug in a gamepro gamepad without software installed and play Tomb Raider Legends in XP. I can't seem to access things like health using the keyboard but maybe I just need to search the net for some advice on this. Microsoft Office works great. Dunno what you want to use the laptop for though, perhaps if you elaborate.

Anyway I honestly feel I could not have made a better choice. OSX boots in about 20 seconds and shuts down in 8 seconds, but it's longer for XP.

I considered a Sony SZ but now that I have the MBP with C2D no way could I reconsider.

 

Yeah, honestly, once you boot into Windows, it is basically like a Windows laptop. The only issues at this point are that the BootCamp drivers are still beta (at least some of them), but Apple has been making changes fairly frequently (they just released Boot Camp 1.1.2 for the new C2D MBP's, which adds support for the new wireless card, for example).

I sold my old Sony Vaio s360 and will be replacing it with a new C2D MBP. I will be mostly using OS X though, but will boot into Windows from time to time.

Just as a question though, do you plan on using OS X for any significant period of time? If the intention is to just get an MBP and run Windows almost all the time, I'm not sure it makes as much sense. I think the benefit of the laptop at this point is being able to run OS X and Windows depending on what you need to do. But I think it would be a pretty expensive solution if it was just going to run Windows; in which case getting an Asus or something might be a better bet.

 

You may also want to consider using Parallels.

 

Thanks for the info.

For work i'll be using the laptop to code, surf, MS office stuff, etc. I work in embedded design so will be using the conventional compilers, diagnostic tools, etc.

Primary usage will be work. OS-X will only be used for my personal usage.

Cost isn't really an issue. Its going to be the primary tool I use for work. Considering I'm going to spend 8-16 hours a day infront of the machine 500 GBP either way is of little consequence really. So my main concern is to find a form factor, design and reliability to suit my needs.

The main concern I had was how well Windows works. I know most of the hardware is similar to other windows based laptops now, but you never know .

Anyway it sounds like its worth a shot.

 

That is best case scenario. If everything works through parallels I can keep both OS's running. And hopefully get to use OS-X alot more.

But worst case it looks like I can just boot to Windows.

 

Have you considered Asus models? such as the V1J instead of the Macbook Pro? Seems a bit strange to buy a Mac just to run windows... but over to you.

 

I don't really like the Asus models I have seen.

Also their web page doesn't help. Would be far better if they split the models by form factor rather then the categories they have chosen. Perhaps I have missed a notebook that is perfect.

With the current crop of notebooks having very similar HW specs and packages, there's not much to differentiate them.

I chose the SZ because of the excellent LED backlit screen (which they ended up changing on the SZ2). And its over all design and aesthetic appeal. Feature wise there were a number of notebooks with similar spec and size.

The same applies to the MBP. IMO it has the best design and aesthetic appeal of notebooks with that form factor. It has the best screen of the ones I have seen. (Another problem I have with Asus is the difficulty finding their notebooks in store. I tend to find one or two in a haphazard fashion.).

I guess it may seem a bit silly to some that I consider aesthetic appeal as one of the deciding factors. But with so many laptops having virtually the same HW spec, we are afforded that luxury without little compromise (apart from $ ).

The only exception is IBM. We've had such a good experience with their T-Series over the years, I would always consider it as a contender. Unfortunately they don't do the T series in wide screen format.

 

I don't think it's silly to consider aesthetic appeal as a deciding factor; when you think about it, a laptop is something that you have much more "hands on time" with than even a desktop, and it is important I think that it's aesthetics appeal to you. Doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a work of art, but it should be something you enjoy using, etc.

 

5to1, I'm in the same place as you with almost identical usage scenarios - Windows for work Apps, OS X for personal apps. I'm looking at the ThinkPad Z Series (widescreen) vs. the MBP. I was drawn to the MBP for its asthetics, OS stability, and the Core2Duo and option to boot to Windows. The issues/concerns I have with it is the heat it puts out (I've heard anything from "gets a little warm" to "burned my palm") and the fact you can't opt for a higher resolution screen. 1440x900 is a bit low for my taste for a 15.4" screen. You can get the same resolution on the base 14.1" Z61t (although that only comes with on-board Intel graphics) or go all the way up to 1900x1200 on the 15.4" Z61p.

I'm hearing widescreen T series will be announced in late November with a tentatively scheduled pre-holiday or early January release date...check out the IBM/Lenovo forum.

 

Regarding the heat issues, from all the early reports so far, Apple has made some major improvements to the internals and case design that have really turned it into a cooler running machine. Most people are reporting that the palmrests are almost completely cool, and the bottom is now more in "warm" territory than "burn" territory. A lot of this seems attributable to the new rear vent design, which seems to be giving it much more space to exhaust heat out the back than the vents from the original MBP.

AppleInsider also put up a nice story detailing some of the other internal changes: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2189

-Zadillo

 

I posted earlier about not being able to assign keystrokes in the game Tomb Raider Legends. Silly me; there is an in-game section in the options mode for key assignment; now I can get health and switch weapons with the click of a keystroke in XP as far as Tomb Raider Legends is concerned. The next setting under 1400x900 runs beautifully with high settings, even with anti-aliasing on. Or I can run it at 1400x900 high settings with anti-aliasing off. Probably far from what you want to buy the laptop for but still interesting to others out there who are contemplating buying a C2D MPB. I have the 2.33 Ghz model, stock.

 

I would love higher res aswell. The T series info is very interesting, maybe i'll hold of for a few weeks before making a final decision.

Hmmm, but I so want a new laptop

 

what does that mean?

I am Mac ignorant, but being I want to buy a laptop, I'm considering a Mac, mostly because it can boot Windows now, you get a two for one. I play some games, but not a lot, so the x1600 on the MBP will come in handy. I just wish they made the Mac book black with an x1600, if it was, I'd be sold without hesitation I think!

 

Parallels is a program that allows you to run Windows in a virtual machine in OS X. So no having to restart the computer. As of right now, Parallels does not support 3d gaming, but they are working on it.

 

how is the performance of XP run virtually compared against a fresh reboot into it? I understand that the gaming quality suffers no matter how you run XP, but that's not a 'big' deal to me.

the only thing that would suck is not getting the Vista upgrade coupon! how hard is it to run OS X on a XP notebook? I've heard it's possible, but being I frequent a PC forum, they're also Mac ignorant.

 

From What I have heard running mac on a windows notebook is illegal. running xp in boot camp seems to give better benchmarks than in parallels, seeing how it is not a virtuallization program but is actually running windows natively. Google it and you will find some interesting info.

 

how is it illegal to run a Mac on other hardware? I mean, if it was an illegitimate version, okay...but if you own a proper license for Mac OS X, I don't see why you can't run it on hardware, that will run it.

would be interesting actually...running in virtualization off of something like Unix, and the same with Windows. man...can you imagine how much fun you can have with virtualization with the Core 2 Quad Kentsfield?

edit - what exactly would I google for? remember, ignorant Mac noob here

 

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=207751

After reading this I'm even more drawn to the Mac. I know people have done this in the past with other PC's.

But a MBP with WUXGA display would really be something. Only problem is they haven't got it working properly with OS-X. Windows seems to be fine.

 

A VM will always be slower then booting the OS.

When running XP directly it should be in the ball park of similarly spec'd notebooks.

Vista doesn't bother me. I would never run a new MS OS from day one. At the most i'd dual boot and play with VISTA occaisionally. So its no big loss not having the upgrade coupon. When it reaches the stage where I can run it as a primary OS (atleast 12 months from release, probably 24) i'll just buy it. Or even upgrade my notebook again.

 

It is illegal because the EULA that you agree to when you install OS X says it is. In other words, Apple said so, and until further notice that's how it will remain.

As for booting into XP using Boot Camp, there is no suffering of quality - it's just as any other Windows notebook really.

 

Companies say alot in EULA. They also include "this does not affect your statutory rights", or something to that affect. Because they know full well some of the clauses contravene your consumer rights. Fair use being a key one here.

I'm not sure about the US, but would be amazed if that was legitimate in the UK. And probably isn't in most other countries.

 

The main issue with running OS X on other non-Apple hardware goes beyond what the EULA says though; it isn't like you can just go and buy a copy of OS X and install it on your PC. To get it to function properly does require some additional unauthorized stuff (not going to go into detail here).

That is possible that in certain countries these restrictions wouldn't be legally binding; as it is, it's not like Apple has some sort of authorization system in place to verify how you are using OS X. It's more just that is there official stance on it.

 

When I had my MacBook (which I returned, in anticipation of getting one of the new C2D MBP's), I installed XP both in Parallels and Boot Camp. Under Parallels, normal Windows operation actually worked fine (although I had to allocate 1GB of RAM to the virtual machine). For using stuff like MS Word, etc. it seemed to do the trick. Booting into Windows XP directly using Boot Camp was perfect, and basically identical to running XP on any PC notebook.

 

OK, I already dropped the idea of running a macbook constantly on windows, but apple adressed some of the pitfalls with his new bootcamp beta.

Moreover Apple Switzerland has some amazing discounts for students, so Apple is back in the race.

My questions:

a) Is also the audio jack problem solved? Are the build-in speakers now switched off when you plug in an audio cable? This is very important IMHO.

b) Are the FN keys working in windows? so can you regulate sound volume, external monitor output, etc with them?

c) Can you really play windows games with it without a major performance loss? I somehow can't believe that.

d) Does the fan also stay silent in windows all the time (like in OSX)? (sorry, i meant during office use)

Thanks for your answers!

 

Paralells is is rather quick. Leo LaPorte ran Photoshop in Parallels and in OS X, and it was faster to run in Parallels. Now that was on a new Mac Pro, so you would not see that result in a portable, but it does give you an idea of how fast Parallels can be. And I believe them when they say they will have 3D capabilities.

One comment on the OS X on PC. In the United States the legality of EULA's is uncertain. However, there is no shrink-wrapped version on OS X that runs on Intel at the moment. Without that you have to download it or use a copy not licensed for your computer. IT IS ILLEGAL. So if we can stay off that subject and stick to the topic of XP on a Mac, I can keep this thread open.

 

a) They have made improvements to the mic/speaker jacks under Boot Camp, but someone would have to verify this.

b) When I had my MacBook, under BootCamp I at least remember the brightness function keys working.

c) With Boot Camp, it really is an actual Windows install that the MacBook is booted up with, so games will perform under Boot Camp just as they would on a comparable PC notebook with the same hardware. There isn't any sort of performance loss because there isn't any sort of emulation, etc. involved here. Note of course that if you are looking at the MacBook and not the MBP, you're only going to be able to play games that you could play on a similar PC notebook with Intel GMA950 graphics. The X1600 in the new C2D MBP's is more capable.

d) The fan will not be silent all the time, if you are doing something that increases the temperature, in Windows or OS X, the fan is going to come on some of the time. Note that the fan is always running, just that normally it is only running at 1000 or 1500rpm (or 2000rpm in the new MBP's). If it does ramp up higher though it becomes possible to hear it.

 

Yargh, you know... after using OS X for the first real time... I felt like I was putting a virus on my machine when I loaded XP in bootcamp.
I would really recommend using Parallels. It's amazing. If you have enough ram (I recommend the full 2-3 gigs on the MBP) then doing anything outside of gaming is just like running it in another machine.
I really felt like it was faster than running XP on my AMD 64 3000+ that had a gig of ram.

I'd recommend trying out OS X for a while, and using parallels. If it doesn't suit all your needs (windows gaming) then try bootcamp. As far as I can tell, everything works fine in windows, except the right click method. So, get an external mouse

 

No probs.

My comments were actually focussed at the common misconception that EULA were binding and always accurate. Infact this applies to most statements/claims of a legal nature made by companies and individuals. Much of it is perfectly fine, but the little caveat "this does not affect your statutory rights" should give you a clue not everything is legally binding.

Sometimes they are not sure of thier legal position. Sometimes they do it deliberately to fool you into awarding them legal rights they are not entitled to.

Sorry in any case.