Upcoming new iPod touch model - GPS possibility?

I don't hang out on any other Apple-related forums, this is the closest one Is there any speculation if the new iPod Touch will have GPS built-in?

I have an iphone4 myself, and have another iphone 3G shared on my plan with the inlaw. She'll never upgrade her phone, so I'm considering getting another iPhone4 on her line for me to use as a fancy iPod Touch (will immediately reactivate her old 3G after purchase). I bought so many apps (most recently the entire suite of Navigon GPS), having an iPod Touch effectively "halves the purchase price" of all the apps I have/will bought/buy and I can dump the Navigon 7200T I have in my second car.

But of course if there's the possibility the upcoming Touch will sport a GPS chip inside, I'll get that instead.

So, any speculation?

PS I should have kept my 32GB 3GS when I upgraded. Prices on those 3GS went UP! I can't find a used 16GB in decent shape for less than $300; I sold my mint 32GB for $350. Feeling stupid now.

 

Well even if it had a gps chip would it not need some form of service to get it to function?

 

What are you referring to?

 

Well the original poster is asking about if GPS will become a feature in the newer Itouch models. Now I am not really a GPS expert but I figured you would need a sort of cell service to use a feature like this.

 

no almost all GPS systems use no cell or communication at all.

 

No, no cellular service will be needed if Apple puts a GPS chip in it, *AND* you have a GPS app with the entire map loaded in the device. It'll then be just like any other dedicated GPS units.

I read that the current iPod Touch uses its wifi location to guesstimate its users' current location for Google maps to function, but it's kind of useless.

I highly doubt Apple will do it, but I'm going to wait until after the new iPod announcement before I do anything.

This GPS thing didn't hit me at the time - should have kept the 3GS and sold my Navigon 7200T instead Because I bought the Navigon app for $25!

 

You just need the GPS receiver; as it is not difficult to write the program, there'll be free apps on iTunes for it.

As for the iPod Touch, I thought it triangulates using its GSM receiver? Not too sure about wifi; we generally only track IP to a T3 ISP, so its quite inaccurate.

I heard stories that Apple sends cars out to track all MAC addresses of wireless routers, but it sounds like a serious breach of privacy. Also I had the service in a tropical rainforest on the other side of the world :O

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how the iPod touch get's it's location, But it's pretty accurate, it shows me just across the street from where I am, But tracing my IP will show a town 20 mins away from me.

 

I'm not sure that this would work at all. What if the device is not on a WiFi connection? Seems like it would be wildly inaccurate as well. Does Apple know all locations of all WiFi hotspots by MAC address?

@OP I don't have citation on this, but I believe that the iPhones use cell tower triangulation to get location. I believe its A-GPS or assisted GPS. It still utilizes the satellites, but cuts down on the power draining use of the GPS atenna by starting with the cell towers. I don't know if they snuck in something like this into the iTouch, but it would make sense. True GPS functionality would require a GPS receiver/antenna. Cell service would be irrelevant, as true GPS uses the GPS satellites to acquire location information.

 

I'm pretty sure that the iPhone only uses A-GPS (which is cell tower based triangulation) and doesn't actually have any dedicated GPS hardware.
It would make sense since Apple sells all their iPhones with cell phone/data plan contracts there's no need for a true dedicated hardware solution.

Here's some interesting information (copied from Wikipedia) about how Google Maps determines your location:

On November 28, 2007, Google Maps for Mobile 2.0 was released. It introduced a GPS-like location service that does not require a GPS receiver. The "my location" feature works by utilizing the GPS location of the mobile device, if it is available. This information is supplemented by the software determining the nearest wireless networks and cell sites. The software then looks up the location of the cell site using a database of known wireless networks and cell sites. The Cell-site location method is used by triangulating the different signal strengths from different cell transmiters and then using their location property (retrieved from the online cell site database) to aid My Location in determining the user's current location. Wireless network location method is calculated by discovering the nearby WiFi hotspots and using their location property (retrieved from the online WiFi database, in the same way as the cell site database) to further discover the user's location. The order in which these take precedence is:

* GPS-based services
* WLAN-based / WiFi-based services
* Cell transmitter-based services

 

I have an iPhone 4 and it does indeed have a dedicated GPS built-in but Apple markets it as A-GPS (Assisted GPS) in that the phone will first draw its location based on Cell Tower triangulation (which is instantaneous but not very accurate) until the GPS gets it bearings at which point the location updates and becomes more accurate. A nice thing about the iPhone's GPS is the integration of the built-in compass, so you don't just get your location but also which way you're facing, even standing still - something dedicated GPS units can't do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the iPod Touch (current versions) don't have a GPS and cannot triangulate cell towers (they do not have a 2G/3G antenna to do so). The location is purely based on the wifi's indexed IP address (which varies from very accurate to widely inaccurate - certain IP addresses' location are mistakenly indexed so badly that they show as not even in the same state/province). There is a website that you can report erroneous IP address locations to but if memory serves me it takes a long time to update. I reported mine last year (it was showing the wrong province) and it was fixed just last month.

Will Apple put a GPS in future Ipod Touches? It's anyone's guess but even if they do, in order to make it functional (as already mentioned in this thread) they will need to supply (either directly from Apple or through a 3rd party) a base map (A typical NavTeq base map of North America is 1.5-2GB in size). The reason for this is that if you don't have a base map, you'll need to load the map data from somewhere and if you only have wifi (as current iPod Touches do) you'll need to remain connected to wifi constantly to use it, which in itself makes it useless for travel.

With the iPhone, the A-GPS maps your location and gets drawn using (by default) Google Maps where the map data gets loaded on the fly over 2G/3G (uses data). The nice thing about using this instead of the stand-alone Navigon pack for example, is that Google Maps use NavTeq database which gets updated every 90 days so essentially you're always using/seeing the most up to date maps. AFAIK, the Navigon navigation app/maps for the iPhone aren't currently being updated - No official update policy has been announced by Navigon - so you're stuck with that base map and you're at their mercy for updates.

Anyhow, IMO I can't see Apple making this available on the iPod Touch but you can never say never.

 

That's great info thanks!

I did a bit of experimenting yesterday on my iPhone4. I can shutoff 3G and data and Navigon continued to function, the current speed of the car displayed accurately (probably more accurate than the car's speedo). Whether it's using the cell tower to triangulate the location or the built-in GPS receiver, who knows. Even Google maps continued to function with the bit of map data that was cached from prior use.

Oh turning on airplane mode everything stops working, figures. I guess the GPS is turned on and off with the GSM radio?

I kind of doubt Apple will put a GPS receiver in it - will having a GPS in it (plus the cost of purchasing a GPS app) help sell more iPod Touches? It's a guaranteed sale right here - I'll buy one for sure! If not I'll get myself another iPhone4. We'll know find out next Wednesday.

 

Thanks for the info, guys. I thought the iPhone didn't have any dedicated GPS hardware.
Well, I stand corrected.