Thinking of converting from PC

Hi,
I'm a PC user, never used Mac before... I'm on the lookout for a new laptop and was looking into Dell but people say its the 'chevy' of computers and that I shouldn't expect to use it for long term. I've heard lots about Mac and might possibly get one.
Do any of you use you Mac solely for Vista or windows? It doesn't really matter to me whether I use OSX or Windows as long as I have the software. I'm afraid many of the software I use, mainly 3d modelling/graphics/video editing etc, aren't available on OSX. Will I have to use a the Mac as a virtualpc to run windows software?

Lastly where can I buy a MacBP for the cheapest price? any discounts / advices etc?

For the specs, I'd love to have atleast 8GB RAM, Quad Core Duo, good grapics card etc - a unit that'll be able to handle my 3d modelling, rendering, graphics, video editing, multi-tasking work... thanks

 

Macs can run Windows natively using Boot Camp, included in Mac OS X Leopard, so no need for any virtualization or anything, it can just boot up in Windows like any other PC in the market.

Unfortunately, there's no quad-core Macs right now, so you will want to factor that in your decision!

 

yah expect to pay an arm and a leg for those specs. apple does a good job of overcharging their customers for inferior specs

 

While my Dells have held up well over the years (and also quality varies between different models), there are plenty of other options besides just Dell and Mac. I suggest you head on over to the "What Notebook Should I Buy?" forum, fill out the FAQ there, and people will recommend some good laptops for you based on your needs and preferences.

 

Have you considered any of the Sager brand of laptops? You can find a lot of them here http://www.xoticpc.com and http://www.powernotebooks.com

Also check out the sub forum catered to them.

I myself have a Sager NP8660 and it outperforms my friends unibody Macbook Pros in all tasks.

 

If you want solid build quality from dell, you'll need to get latitude or xps series. E.g. Dell E6400.

If you're only running windows on your Mac, beware that there are compatibility issue with bootcamp regarding to power management features. Thus, expect the Mac's battery to be shortened bit quite a bit when you're using windows on a Mac. Also, some of the unique features on the Mac such as many special gestures doesn't work as well in windows as Mac OS.

 

A Latitude E6400 won't be able to do even close to what he wants.

I look at itthis way. Many people that recommend Macs have used $500 PCs and are comparing them to $2000 Macs. That just isn't a fair comparison. The most powerful mac is the 17" MacBook pro and it doesn't have a quad.

If you want to go PC, or specifically Dell, I would look at the Dell Precision M6400. It's on the expensive side, but it's still cheaper than a similar mac, and you can get a quad. Plus, it's part of Dell's business line, so it's very solidly built (definitely will last a long time), and it has 3 year us based tech support as well (if you're buying from US) which is something commonly only found on a mac.

As long as operating system doesn't matter, you can't go wrong with the Precision M6400. Cheaper and more powerful, with just as solid construction.

 

Actually if you were interested in Dell and planning on doing rendering work, you could check out their precision line which is one of their business lines (they apparently have better quality). One of the options on those machines are quadro cards and I believe they offer quad core processors as well. I'm thinking specifically of the 4400m and 6400m. HP has versions of these as well: the 8530w and 8730w. Sager, as deathwinger writes, also offer mobile workstations.

Now all that being said, what you really want to decide is whether you want a mobile workstation or a notebook. The models mentioned above are mobile workstations and their weight, heat and noise output will be significantly different from a notebook. I model and render in Rhino pretty often as well as use adobe illus, ps, indesign, and acrobat (for the most part all in Vista64 via bootcamp) and the Mbp that I use is perfectly fast for me. Unless you like render previewing exceptionally complex scenes (and render preview is usually useless anyway) I don't think you'll need a gfx card more powerful than the 9600 in the mbp...I certainly don't; my last scene had over 2 million polys and I could preview fine, not silky smooth when orbiting mind you, but less than a second to reconstitute the preview when I stopped orbiting. If the fastest render times are essential for your use of a computer, then you should choose a machine that can handle a quadcore (ie a mobile workstation). If you are looking for balance then a mbp might be a good solution for you.

The last three laptops I've owned were a g4 powerbook which I sold after 6 months so I could get a Sager workstation. Had that for 3+ years. Now I have a 17" Mbp ... and I don't see myself ever going back to sager or any other mobile workstation for that matter...and I'm comparing a $3000 sager to a $3000 MBP. By the way, a similarly equipped m6400 is not cheaper than my Mbp. The only thing that is a significant difference is the gfx card, and admittedly the fx2700 is a significant difference.

Hope this helps.

 

Looks like you need to do a little research to find out if your programs have a Mac version. You also need to seriously consider if you want to stick with Windows or switch to OSX. Buying a Mac just to run Windows is a bit of a waste if you ask me. While Windows users will point out that a PC has better hardware for the money they leave out that the Mac is far more valuable due to the software, support, style and convenience. By running just Windows you take the comparison back down to just the hardware and style and at that point you are better off just buying a PC.

Look around a bit, do your research and find out what you REALLY want before buying anything. Check out consumer reports and other studies on computers, service and reliability of the different companies. Remember that most people keep a new system over 2 years so you want to make sure you get what not only what you want but what will serve your needs the best.

 

nothing against sagers,but I think it will only outperform in GPU related tasks,but mac will get it when it comes to battery and weight

 

It's more valuable due to the software? How so?

I agree that Apple has great support, but style and convenience is simply a personal preference.

 

Ok yes. But what does battery and weight have to do with tasks? Probably typing up a term paper or something simple like that. But I'm referring to tasks that generate revenue, serious business, basically. It outperforms in regards to GPU, CPU, application performance, etc.

The Sagers are top performers, and something to consider if you are doing intense work and need a desktop replacement in a highly portable frame as it appears what the OP wants.

I'm sorry, but not even the Macbook Pro 17 inch is going to fulfill his needs like a Sager would.

 

Battery life can't be measured as a type of performance?

And it only outperforms if you spec it that way. Your laptop outperforming your friends is not the same as it outperforming all MBPs. It only outperforms mine with regards to the GPU for instance.

But whatever, if he feels he needs to have a quad core there is really only the option of getting a mobile work station, be it Dell, HP, Sager or Lenovo, in which case he should be reading the other forums.

 

The OP mentioned video editing etc so iLife would be an added bonus over what is offered in Windows for one thing. I'm puzzled by your statement that convenience is a personal preference. I've never met anyone before who would ask for anything to be more inconvenient. I can understand why you like Windows so much now.

 

Yes, but iLife may not be what he needs. Perhaps he is looking for something more professional, like Final Cut Pro, or Avid, or Premiere Pro. It's really dependent on that. I know pros that use FCP and will not even consider switching, and I know people who use Avid and would never switch - it's just too different.

To the OP, the bottom line is this. You have to prioritize. There are people who will vouch for the Macbook Pro 17" because it's only 6.6 lbs and 0.98" thick and it has a long lasting battery. There are those who will advocate Sagers because they're reasonably cheap for the performance. There are some (me included) that will recommend a big maker, like HP or Dell, for the reliability and support and power. There are tradeoffs for each one.

I would recommend filling out the FAQ and putting it here so we can get a better idea of what you want and not just bicker about if battery and/or weight are important.

 

He never specifiedany video editing software so you cant assume that he's going to use "iLife". if he's using something like adobe premiere pro, then iLife is a waste of money. Also, using a Mac or Windows would be the same under adobe premiere pro.

Some people are more familiar with certain programs and operating system thus they have their own preference to what's more convienient for them to use.

For me, using Mac OS is an inconvenience because most of my programs that I use are windows based and i'm more familiar with it. Others might like something else better and that's their preference.

Yes.. thanks for stating the obvious that I like using Windows. Why would I waste $1500 just for MacOS and a Mac which I don't even like when I have my computers running perfectly on windows? I'd rather prefer using windows to save time and save money. Hmm.. what can I with the $2000 that I saved by building my own desktop computer and buying a windows laptop?

 

The fact is that a Mac offers better installed software than a PC and lacks the crapware that helps bring down the cost of buying a PC. If the OP is using more advanced software that does change things a bit. I also agree that there would be the need to purchase new software if the OP is going to continue using said advanced software. I don't think the OP is going to build a laptop or desktop so that argument is useless.

In case you didn't notice I was in agreement that a PC may be the better choice for the OP depending on the circumstances. I thought my original opinion was a fair one comparing base packages and taking uses into consideration. I guess it must have threatened you PC users that I made a valid point comparing the systems that you feel the need to nit pick.

 

even considering that iLife is free?

Time?

Also,can you please compose a list with a desktop and laptop with same spec/weight/battery as mac's so I can save 2000 on my next purchase?

 

Clearly, the OP needs to be a bit more specific with what he wants.
Building a laptop is completely unreasonable. Look at KTRON's, which is the only one I know of. It's so big and heavy that I can't imagine anyone carrying that anywhere.
The PCs that most are advocating, like the Dell Precision series, don't come with any crapware. At all. About the only preinstalled software you get are the Dell utilities, many of which are quite useful.

To start, I'd like to point out that Macs are very thin and light, in a way that most PCs aren't. It's all a matter of tradeoffs. One definitely ends paying for this convinience by buying the Mac. For example:
I was considering between buying a refurbished Dell Latitude E6400 and a Macbook Pro 15". Both are very nice, but I ultimately chose the E6400. Why? Because, when buying refurbished, this Dell cost me $1250. A Macbook Pro, refurbished, would have cost me $2200. With the Dell, I sacrificed the multitouch trackpad, unibody case, and extra graphics power. Are these features worth $950?
I didn't think so.
My battery life, while on extended life mode, quite easily reaches 6 hours, better than the 15" pro. Specs, besides graphics, are the same, while my processor is actually better. It weighs about 0.4lbs more.

 

I think we scared off the OP.

Though I'm sure this thread could go on and on without him ever returning.

 

I agree. Too bad the search function is turned off because I was going to do some research on the OP and try to figure out what they are doing with the system. We could argue all day about the hardware cost savings of a PC vs the software (what's included and left out), style (weight and looks), convenience (ease of use) and overall experience but will never come to an agreement. Without the OP giving more info this thread is pointless. A continued lack of response would indicate it was more of a flame bait thread than anything but I don't want to make that conclusion, yet.

 

Actually, i consider half of iLife to be crapware - specifically iPhoto and iWeb. OP, if you're still around, throw the iPhoto icon on the dock in the trash and load Picasa. iTunes is a piece of crap too, but a necessary evil for my iPods/iPhone. Safari is fast enough, but in typical Apple fashion - simple and not customizable. You could throw that in the trash too and install Firefox.

I'm not a video editor - so I can't recommend what's best. With Picasa and Firefox, well, that's the same thing as a PC, so then you have to decide based on style.

I'm really an agnostic when it comes to Mac vs. PC. I find myself using my Mac more than my Thinkpad only because my Seagate is failing on my TP. The OS debates are a bunch of hot air. Both have advantages and disadvantages - none of which are dealbreakers.

Why not just buy the Mac and try it for a year? You can always resell it - they hold their value well enough.

 

where did you found 2200?and you should compare it to something like m4400,which I got instead mbp...if you want,we can debate on that topic.

it is really pointless to continue arguing.let me say this-currently there are ~1 billion computer users.Mac OS market share is ~10%(and it is growing),around 100 000 000 people.If there is no reason,why are all those people using macs?

 

You asked why convenience is a personal thing. I replied that Windows is more convenient for me. For others, it might be different. How is that picking on you Mac users?

 

My mistake. It seems that it was $2199 before, now it has dropped to $1999 (because they have the 2.66 model now and not 2.53) http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB471LL/A?mco=MjE0NDk5Mw.
Also, closer to my config (I have a 3.06) would be this one with a 2.8ghz for $2299: http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB471LL/A?mco=MjE0NDk5Mw

If we compare new systems, the $2499 Macbook Pro 15", and a custom configured M4400, here's the config for the Macbook, and here's one for the Precision M4400. Of course, we could go on debating how the Macbook has DDR3 memory and a nice unibody case and an apple logo and a multitouch trackpad. In the same way, I could say that the M4400 has a nice magnesium alloy case and a faster hard drive and 3 years warranty/support. The thing here is that the Dell costs $1830 vs the Mac's $2500. I'd pay extra for the mac, maybe ~$250, but not $670. It's just too much.

 

Yes, I save time in windows compared to Mac OSX because i'm used to the gui, I know most of the shortcuts and I know my way around it. Isn't that saving time?

I have a desktop and a laptop. I don't need all the fancy stuff like, light sensor, aluminum shell, light up keyboard..etc.

For desktop, I have a quadcore 2.2ghz processor, 750GB hdd, 4GB ram, ATI HD3200 graphic card, dvd -rw and a nice looking case. I built this desktop for $400. This machine is almost silent and I can't even hear the computer running from 5 feet away.
If I bought a mac that's equivelent to this spec, I will need to spend about $1800 including the 12% tax in Canada. That's $1400 saving there.

For laptop, I don't need a Mac. All I require is 6-7 hours of battery life, silent laptop to take notes, photoshop, premiere pro, autocad and browse the web and playing 720 videos on my hdtv. I chose acer aspire one 150x which has 160GB hdd, 6 cell battery..etc. It does everything I wanted for $400. When I need the processing power, I'll connect to a virtual machine on my quadcore though wifi or I can just use my destop computer. BTW.. this netbook also has multitouch touchpad capable of 2/3 finger gestures. The cheapest Macbook is about $1000 including the tax here. That's about $600 savings.

$1400+600= $2000

Depending on your needs, your saving will vary.
If you just need a laptop for browsing the web, watching movie and don't care about battery life and asthetic appeals, you can probably save quite a bit more. But if you want absolutely the best hardware, then you probably will save very little money.
E.G 2xquadcore skulltrail desktop with Geforce 295 sli...etc and quadcore laptop with crazy specs.

 

Well,I see your point,but hear my story-

I got my m4400 in feb instead of mbp to save some money(for 1100$-perfectly good for spec).And it was nothing except problems-constant driver problems,horrible support(I have talked to them like 20 times and only once the guy was "smart" enough to help me),overheating(real,not just high temps),bad BQ(even keyboard is uneven),bad battery(I get a bit more 3 hours with 9cell) and so on...and don't think that it was only case! they have 1st changed my mobo,then 2x I got new laptops as replacement-almost same thing with all!Then I got my 2.4 uMB for 1000$ and elitebook 8530w for my autocad job and they covered me.now I just got my uMbp from eBay for 1500$ and think that it is excellent price for it-true,I pay more when you do spec-to-spec comparison and it may do the job same way that my m4400,but it does that w/o annoying/making me mad!

Disclaimer-this comes from someone with 10 notebooks-9 PC's and just 1 mac

This would work if you talked to some average best buy customer... Would you like a surgery w/o narcoses for half the price?

 

sorry it's off-topic...

how does the elitebook compare to the umbp and precision?

(all 3 are in the running for my next laptop)

 

oh,it is excellent if you run w7 or XP. fast,reliable,durable(I think it is my only laptop that is better built then uMB/P),great screen and quite good looking!Price is a bit high,but you can find good deals at hp's business outlet or eBay.

 

Yes.. if it's a minor surgery in a small area, I would do it with minor sedation for half of the price if the surgery cost a lot and the money is coming out of my own pocket.

The effect is the same, but if I only need minor sedation. Theres would be no reason spend twice more money to drug myself until unconsiousness?

Back to my case, buying a similar Mac desktop cost 400-500% more ($400 vs 1600-2000 both including tax). If I can get what I need and I like it, there would be no reason to buy something I don't like for 4-5x more money.

 

Well, the thread just shot off into the wrong direction after the first couple of posts. And it is going nowhere. May I remind you next time to try to help the OP instead of steering off into your own debate.

Sam and swarmer's posts were probably the most helpful for the OP...

Thread closed.
Johnny T - NBR Moderation Team