Thinking about buying new MBP 13'

I am waiting for the next refresh on the Macbook Pro 13' and I wanted to ask here if the computer would suit me. I am between this computer and the new refresh of the Sony Z Series. The Sony is almost perfect for me with the exception of the non-upgradeable hard drive that doesn't have TRIM. This is why I am looking towards a new powerful MBP 13'. The thing is I have never used an Apple product before because of the convenience of windows xp/7. I guess I am trying to ask previous converts about their transition to OS X and how it is now.

Also I was wondering about programs like VMWare to emulate windows xp/7 in case I do like the MBP 13', but not OS X. Will it be possible to run windows 7 as if I had let's say a Dell XPS 13? Would upgrading the memory to 6gb or 8gb help in doing so?

 

You can run Windows with Bootcamp on Mac computer easily I spoke to the Apple in store person. Well basically he showed me how to set it up.

You can as well vice versa with VMWare but I believe is for more technical users to setup OSX on PC computer (hack and patch)

Same, I am waiting for the MBP 15"... Core i7... It is going to be my first Mac computer but I'm a dual OS user anyways... all Apple at work and Windows at home..


If I were you, I'll wait but if you need one urgent... like impatient to have some cool new toys.. make sure you won't regret it.

 

The best advice I can offer is go to an Apple store or use a friends Mac and actually use OSX. A MBP is NOT a PC. If you don't end up liking OSX you'll regret not getting the Sony in the long run IMHO.

Also, VMWare/Parallels cannot approach running Win7/XP at anywhere near fullspeed simply b/c it's an OS within an OS. Bootcamp would be your best option, but it's really not optimal with poorer (relatively) battery life and jumpy trackpad drivers (the new 3.1 drivers are better but not perfect). Also a Mac keyboard simply isn't as useful in Windows if you're a power user since it's missing a lot of keys for standard shortcuts (yes there are like 5-button combos, but that's redunk and I can't remember that many keys LOL).

 

I agree with snork.
I have a 15" MBP and although I like the OS and the notebook a lot I use a windows machine every day at work as well as my Mac mini. I am however finding I am using the e4300 more and more.
At home I use my MBP all the time unless I need to work. VPN software on OSX is just not up to par yet.
I would not give up my Mac for the world, but then I refuse to run bootcamp (due to the issues above) and I have used both VMware and Parallels and I find that they do not even come close to using this as a full pc. It is good for quick things, but as soon as you get into more demanding processes you are limited by the sharing required by the virtual application.
Don’t get me wrong I did use bootcamp, I just did not like how it worked, but I believe Apple did introduce this to appeal to more Windows users.
I have never believed in the Mac vs PC fight. But I do believe in what works for you.
Try out OSX, forget the bootcamp feature do not think about it, just try out the OS.
If you like it and it will work for your needs, your set. If not then go to a PC.
I can tell you after using one of our companies EVP’s Sony Z series, I would skip it on just the crappy and very cramped keyboard.
On the MBP the KB and touchpad (touchpad especially) are above any notebook I have ever used.
Before I got my 15” I did use a 13” however I just preferred the larger screen.

 

The Sony Z is a great machine. Small, light, fast, great quality, and feature rich. The 13" MBP or MBA are also great quality but less feature rich, and in the case of the MBP, bigger/heavier.

I transitioned from a Sony Z to a Macbook a few years back. I missed some of the features of the Z but overall was much happier with the productivity the MAC offered. How happy you are with the transition is a very individual thing though. Do you need some of the features or would some of the features the Z has make you more productive than the MAC might? Can you get all or most of the software you need over on the MAC side and will it work for you as well as the Windows stuff? If you do still need to keep a foot in Windows, be prepared for the extra software expense of having Windows and Mac software (You gotta buy Windows, VM software and apps).

Spending some time with a friend that uses a MAC would be your best bet for finding out. Alternatively visit an Apple store (won't tell you near as much but you may learn something critical). Of buy one and lean all you can before the return period is up. Do some reading on the switchers sticky in the Apple/OS X section of NotebookReview.

While I love my MAC, am much happier using it than any PC, and am more productive than when using a PC, thsts not the case for everyone and a MAC is not without its frustrations, particularly if you do a lot of collaboration with PC users.

I would not recommend buying a MAC just to Bootcamp windows all the time. While Apple hardware is exceptionally well designed and of high quality its not magic and its Software provides more benefit. Keeping a foot in Windows for collaboration is not a bad thing. Install a bootcamp partition and point to it with Virtual machine software and you have a pretty good setup - being able to reboot into it for high performance, or just make use of it within OS X via VM for convenience for smaller use.

Good luck in your decision!

 

I don't know how much this will help you, but I just switched last weekend. I switched from a desktop and laptop to pretty much just the macbook. I expect I'll still do my desktop upgrade eventually for gaming, but given the lack of time I've had for that recently (work) it'll be awhile.

There's some differences to get used to, but overall I've enjoyed the experience. I have much shorter boot times and shut-down times (I always thought windows took a ridiculous amount of time to close down).

There are quite a few differences to get used to though, the keyboard shortcuts are different, and not having a right mouse button. Multi-touch on the touchpad is nice though, and I'm getting used to it.

The only gripe I have is that Office for the Mac doesn't run macros. Keep in mind there is a fair amount of change to adapt to, so make sure to keep an open mind about things, if you expect it to be windows with a different looking desktop it isn't.

Anyway, those are just my reactions after my first week or so, overall I'm very happy, I got exactly what I wanted- a very portable, very high quality machine.

 

if you have an affinity for sailing the seas and raiding ships, you'll find the mac to be a rather lame ship in some respects.

 

That is a very beautiful image.

Bronsky

 

depends on what application/program you use.

i like os x better. but when playing games windows is the way to go.

i personally have both mac and windows computer. i do not use boot camp or vm ware or what not.

you can run windows natively with boot camp, however you must remember that the keyboard layout is different.

personally if you not planning to run os x or will run windows most of the time. don't bother going with apple computer. just get windows.

the Z-series is magnificent notebook anyway.

personally, i go with thinkpad if i go windows notebook. but otherwise Z-series or ENVY is a decent alternative.

 

Keep in mind too that the lack of an upgradeable hard drive may simply be a function of what Sony's offering for the initial configure-to-order pre-orders. The Dutch Sony store has the refreshed Z listed with a regular hard drive as an option (plus a true 1080i HD screen, though that seems a bit pointless when you're talking 13.1"). So in a few months, the options available to U.S. customers may expand.

The Z, let's be honest, is in a class by itself, both feature-wise and price-wise. It's not really fair to compare it to the MBP except purely on aesthetics, where I think the MBP is the winner. Feature-wise, I think the 13" MBP more directly parallels the HP ENVY 13 or the ASUS U30JC-A1.

In terms of OS X, I made a temporary switch out of necessity a year back when my home PC was on the fritz, and the only alternative available was a work MBP. I panicked and immediately installed Windows Vista via Boot Camp. Actually, though, within a week I did most of my computing OS X-side anyway. On the one hand, the transition was -- other than a few advanced user frustrations here and there -- painless, but on the other hand I'm not exactly sure I gained much in productivity using OS X. Microsoft and Apple have copied each other so much over the years that to me at least the experiences were of insignificant difference. I will say that if you're using Mac hardware, OS X -- being optimized for MBP use -- makes the most sense as the OS of choice. Vista by way of Boot Camp was perfectly serviceable but had a few kinks in driver and hotkey support. In the end, I only used Vista for Office applications, because I didn't want to shell out more money for a Mac-version of Office. If you use a lot of licensed software such as Office or Photoshop, the fixed cost of switching editions to me would be the biggest barrier to converting permanently and completely to Macs. When my PC was repaired, I went back to using Vista and on balance didn't regret it. I felt most of the hotkey & UI features I loved about OS X were addressed (or, if you're a Mac fanboy, "copied") with Windows 7.

Bottom line: if you're committed to Windows, I wouldn't buy a MBP. However, if you're willing to give OS X a shot, then I can't imagine you're going to hate it. It's a great OS: in some ways better than Windows 7, in some ways worse, but for the most part remarkably comparable.

For what it's worth, by the way, I used to own a last-generation Z, and it was hands-down the best computer I've ever owned, though for the price one would hope so!

 

I had the idea that people buy mac for the os, since you never worked with it before i suggest you go to a macstore and ask them to give you some sort of walktrough to see if its really the thing for you. If your planning to run w7 most of the time I don't understand why you want a mac, you'll have to buy a windows version (unless you already have one, but if you don't it will cost you more money) to run it with bootcamp, risk some problems, and so on.
Mac has some advantages but it seems that you are considering it only for its looks?

 

I agree with you about the Sony Vaio Z, it's a nice machine (although quite flimsy), if I was going to be a Windows user I would choose it but I don't know why people compare the Z to the 13" MBP, they are 2 different machines? The Z cost a much higher premium over the Macbook Pro. The top (un-CTO'd) 13" MBP is $1499. The Sony Z begins at $1799 and it's specs are about the same as the MBP. I certainly would love for Apple to make a premium spec'd 13"MBP but they seem hell-bent on keeping smaller screened notebooks with lower specs against the larger ones.

 

Thank you so much for the responses everyone! My purchase actually has nothing to do with looks or aesthetics like some people think . I really just want a laptop with longevity and reliability while still retaining high-end performance. The MBP does this very well and at a very reasonable price! The problem is my unfamiliarity with the operating system. I have used Windows for the past 15 or so years. I am not comparing it to the Sony Z either, but rather I am using the MBP as my potential alternative if the Sony Z doesn't live up to its hype. The MBP would actually save me about $2000 because of how cheap it is! I just hope it gets released with atleast an Intel Core i5-540m at minimum with a decent resolution.

I really don't mind using OS X though, it's just it seems like it will take some time to get used to, but at the same time I feel like I will have buyers remorse if I solely use Windows XP/7. I think after reading up about bootcamp, I don't really want to do it because of the bad battery life. I was wonder if using VMWare or Parallels with let's say 6GB would allow for seamless integration of Windows 7 to use it for mainly Microsoft Office and Entertainment?

 

longevity, the mbp will probably be way outdated by 1 or 2 years from now (even if it's using an i5). I do believe that MBP are reliable though, but performance wise, it won't be able to keep up much.

 

Forgive me for making the generalization, but this is something that a typical PC user or MAC convert does not understand very well about MAC's

That being MACs typically have a much longer pleasurable service life than PC's. That PC you buy today with the bleeding edge hardware will typically be huffing and puffing and providing a much poorer user experience a year from now than the MAC you buy today with mediocre sounding hardware, which a year from now will be providing a user experience about as good as the day you bought it. Now depending on the user and software they use maybe that "year" is six month or three years - but the point is MACs typically age much more gracefully.

There are a few big reasons. Some of these are good reasons and some would say not so good. The first is the hardware. On the not so good side its not going to be as feature rich as a PC. On the good side that makes for a product that runs smoother and faster than an equivalent PC. The second is the software side. Mac software is typically less feature rich than PC software, Again its typically more efficiently designed, which both a lot less initial bloat and a lot less change over time that causes even more bloat. A third reason, kind of related to the first two is you typically get much better support down the road, as the PC modle you bought was very short lived in design and production and the MAC cycles are much longer so when you call for support, the product is still important and has relevance to the support people.

For many (about 90%) the extra cost and leaner feature set, and slower enhancements cycles will make the MAC unattractive. For others the premium user experience and longer useful life cycles will be what sells them over a PC.

If class leading specs, and large feature sets, and frequent update cycles, and tuning and tinkering are important you you a MAC might not be the right choice. But if you just want a computer that works great without many hassles, and lets you just accomplish things without worrying about the plumbing the MAC can be a great option.

 

I understand your point, but I think you as well as other potential "switchers" (I hate that word) are making more out of this than you should. Just think about it. When you run Windows, what do you do? Install Office or any required softwares and run them right? When you buy a Mac what do you do? Install Office or any needed or required softwares and run them. Honestly, what's the difference? You're not going to be hammering around the operating system all day. It's really not nearly as much of a change as you think.

Sorry for the car analogy, but when you buy a whole different car what do you do? You get in the drivers seat and drive it, just like your last car. Learning the dashboard controls are the only thing that will be different. Same as moving to a Mac from a Windows machine, you're basically going to run your email program, surf the web and install your needed softwares. Don't make this out to be something that's life changing, it's just a computer. In terms of software, aside from the gaming library, there's almost nothing you can do on Windows that can't be done in Mac OS X.

 

Exactly what I was thinking, I too am in the market for a notebook and am considering the 13" MBP and Vaio Z. The Z is way too expensive and the power (specifications) in the MBP is more than enough for what I want to use it for.

Every program I will be using frequently (Exception is Microsoft Visio 2007, I'm hoping 2010 suite would fix that) runs natively on OSX. As a result, I wouldn't really need to enter parallels that often unless there's something I cannot figure out how to do in Office 2008 and I'm becoming impatient (The interfaces are different for some reason).

That being said, I hate that I have to wait as people are expecting a new line of MBPs from Apple pretty soon. I just hope that this new line can still achieve the battery life of the current line ... If they're going with i5's I don't see how that is possible.

 

I would not hold my breath for Visio for the MAC, but I use two native OS X programs with great success that allow me to collaborate with Visio users:

OmniGraffle Pro - Opens most Visio docs directly and allows you to edit them and export to a VDX file which any Visio user can read/edit. It can also import Visio templates and objects and use them directly. Its not quite as refined as Visio and its base set of templates are not near as rich. Off topic but OmniPlan does the same thing with MS Project files (although some features don't come across perfectly).

ConceptDraw Pro - Opens Visio VDX files (which whoever sends you a Visio file must export to) or Concept draw offers an automated email service where you send a VSD and (usually within minutes) they will email back a VDX. ConceptDraw has a very rich template set but Visio templates are not directly useable (even though you can edit a VDX that uses a Visio template no problem). Again when you are done you have to export a VDX for other Visio users to be able to consume.

I like OmniGraffle better for modifying Visio documents and creating simple Visio documents but its not as stron for creating complex Visio Docs. I like ConceptDraw better for creating complex documents. Either one would allow most folks to avoid having to use Windows based Visio. Thier combined initial cost for both is less than most would pay for Visio Pro and their upgrade costs are very reasonable.

 

A Z may FEEL flimsy (because they pack so much in so little space with opening for the optical media, memory, hd, ports etc its structural rigidity suffers a lot compared to a MAC), but they are actually pretty durable.

And you are definitely right about the Z with regards to pricing. While its starting price seems high but maybe tolerable given its feature set, you quickly learn that there are a lot of "up to's" in the product description, that the base model is not as powerful or as full featured as it sounds, and to build a loaded version with all of the "up to's" its easily over $4K. Ouch.

 

Best advice yet. You can't expect to accurately convey connotative meanings with written language.

 

That's great news. I use Visio quite a bit it's nice knowing I won't have any need to use Parallels if those alternatives work as you described them.

I just took a look at my buddy's unibody Macbook, you know the one with the 2.26 GHz processor ... Even that seems to be adequate for my day to day use.

However I am thinking of going Pro cause I heard those white ones get quite discolored at the palm rest and the aluminum ones simply just preserve the aesthetics much better?

What exactly is the difference between the (Late 2009) Macbook 13 and (Mid 2009) Macbook Pro 13? Besides ..

Max resolution 800p instead of 900p
No SD card slot

I mean, they have the same graphics card, battery life, screen quality, size factor (0.95" vs 1.08")

Also,

 

Macbook Pro is a great laptop.

 

I always wanted to try one ever since they announce the new Macbook Pro but I've been sticking with PC laptop because it fits me needs not until Macbook Pro + Snow Leopard + Bootcamp to fit need this time around.

Now it is time for me to get my first Apple computer very soon. xD

 

Are you waiting for Apple to refresh the MBP line? Even though, the MBP as it currently stands is all I want in a laptop, I cannot help but listen to people who are telling me I am paying for 3 year old technology.

The power is enough for me, but when I look at some PC laptops, it just seems like I'm making a bad move.

I'm really trying to break out of the mindset that specs is what defines a computer, because in all honesty, I think the MBP holds its own when it comes to convenience and durability.

Still, in my head, all I can think of is "Specs make the laptop" even though I know this is clearly not true.

 

Well look, I am craving for it pretty bad at the moment but I am still holding out for the new refresh one. It could be $100-200 more but it's the up to dated 2010 technology at least starting around there.

I am waiting to spend $2000-$2800 range along with my University discount. xD but I'll probably paying $1600+ if I sell my current laptop out (worth $1900).

Core 2 Duo has been out for ~3 years, Core i series are like much faster with Hyperthreading.

 

Haha, your budget is way more than mine. I'm looking at the MBP 13, either model ... I haven't decided yet.

I am waiting at the moment, as it isn't exactly a priority. I just hate the fact that I keep wasting a lot of time looking up laptops ... And I feel I will keep doing that till I have made a decision.

As for the old technology comment, you're right. C2D is indeed 3 years old, and the new i series coming out is great. Still, technology keeps moving. My major concern is if Apple will be able to maintain the battery life while using the more power hungry i5/i7 processors.

 

They are the same as C2D and even better.
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7/mobile/specifications.htm

My stock CPU was 25W and current upgrade is 44W lol yeah.

Core 2 Duo most are 35W
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/core2duo/mobile/specifications.htm

I'm pretty sure Apple is sticking only to 35W to maintain 7 hours battery unless they use SSD which they can install Quad core with 45W and that is bit much.


AND speaking about waiting.. it is killing me and I'm just like you browsing to all computer company website, dell, lenovo, hp, alienware, asus, acer, apple, msi, etc etc

 

I did hear of an issue years ago about the white MB's discoloring. I did not experience it myself and I heard that it had been addressed in later models. I see white macbooks quite a bit at the airports and they look great so I'm assuming whatever issue was there has been addressed.

Most of the differences between the MB and MBP can be found on the Apple web site. There are things that are not obvious - like the screen quality. The MBP has a much better screen although it is the same resolution as the MB. The MBP screen has a higher contrast ratio so blacks are blacker and colors are richer. Also while the structural rigidity of the plastic uMB is pretty good the MBP is better. Also as MAC's make use of radiation as part of their cooling the MBP will cool better as Aluminum is better at transferring heat. Finally the MBP has a backlit keyboard that some folks (like me) find fantastic.

I would recommend dropping by an Apple store or BestBuy to take a look and handle each one before you make your final decision.

 

I'm not sure it's worth getting too crazy about having the tip top of the current tech. The best part is with the new MBPRO you can connect to the 24 LED via display port which would be great for me. I've got a 24 ultrasharp with a display port but no display port out on the mbpro I've got.

 

you need to get the adapter... they use mini dvi port otherwise the macbook pro wouldn't be that thin.

 

I connect it via DVI which is fine. The good things about the 24" Ultrasharp is the ports...there are TONS of different kinds. Really solid 24" inch LCD.

The Alienware with the ATI gfx card really puts out crisp graphics. Funny thing is I bought this alien to game once in a while but never use it for gaming....Xbox 360 is just much smoother.

 

Well common sense is telling me that the MBP makes more sense. I can afford either quite readily, but I am so hesitant to get one with all the talk about new ones round the corner. I'm also looking at PC alternatives, particularly the Sony Vaio SR.

 

If you choose to go Apple and can afford a MB or a MBP, the MBP has a lot more to offer (screen alone is enough for me, but metal body, backlit keyboard, SD slot etc is worth the price difference).

Folks spending more than $1000 on a PC choose Apple over all other brands about 90% of the time. Clearly PC's in this class usually offer better sounding specs and much larger feature sets so you know its user experience and not the iron thats selling MACS. I believe long time MAC users are more concerned about what they can do and how well they can do it with their MAC rather than whats under the hood.

So if you are making your decision based on the iron, you might be happier with a PC because thats not what MACs are about. Sony's are typically great machines and usually offer class leading specs and feature sets if those things are important to you.

Good luck choosing!

 

That's the thing, I'm so used to looking at specs when picking a computer. Recently however, I've found that there are a couple of things that are equally important to me. Most apparent being battery life, reliability, build quality and to a lesser extent aesthetics.

I actually love the MBP and it's my number one choice. However, I guess it's just bad timing right now as they're due for a refresh. Don't get me wrong, as they currently stand, they offer more than enough power for me but still ... I would like to get the most for what I pay for you know.

 

As we just purchased a new car, I have to say that is a great analogy. Driving the new car is no different than driving the old one - Sit in the seat, turn the key and shift to drive. Now, knowing which of the knobs turns on the lights - that will take some time.

Agree, the MBP would be a better buy than the MB based on what it has to offer. That said, if you don't think the extras on the MBP will be of use/noticeable buy the MB.

Just my 2cents.

 

90% of the time? Not really, each brand and model have their pros and cons, and each person has different needs, and both change over time. To blindly buy products based soley on its brand is a poor buying habbit. If someone had $2000, and wanted a full HD screen, bluray, full compatability with office, extended warrenty, on site support, and workstation power or extreme portabily, a mac would be a poor choice because it doesn't offer these things. It does offer an all in solution, where all the basic software for common use is "optimized" for the computer its build on. Mac's also offer a good compromise between power and portabily, and if that appeals to you it would be a very good choice. Buy its also good to consider all options and not put all your trust in a brand's reputation.

 

Well I honestly would have some use for an SD card slot. I mean almost all cameras use SD cards today.

The MBP seems more durable the the MB as it's made of aluminum. Other than that though ... The lower end MBP and the MB seem identical to me. I've heard that the MB was updated late last year to match the screen of the MBP. So the only thing missing is the SD card slot and FireWire 800 (I have absolutely no need for this port, this technology has been dead for a while. Why does Apple insist on wasting a port?)

Anyway, people are telling me to wait ... So I guess I will. Either way, buying a MB or a MBP will be an upgrade from what I'm using now. I guess waiting till the 23rd can't hurt. I just really want to buy the thing and get it out of the way though. I mean, i5 is great, but even my T5270 processor doesn't crap out on me yet ...

 

Yes really. There are many articles out there and the number have been getting higher each year. Here is just one article:

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/a...ced-PCs-sold-at-US-retail-is-a-Mac/1265047893

Obviously buying anything only makes sense if it meets your needs. The OP stated that the current MBP did more than meet his needs. And if a particular brand has something that meets your needs its not often a bad choice to choose that brand with both market share and top ratings in customer satisfaction.

For some of the very reasons you stated, a MAC is not for everyone. If you need an HD screen in a 13" Notebook, or need blueray, or need on site support, or workstation power, a MAC might not be for you. MACs do offer an extended warranty (3 years Applecare), and they do offer full office compatibility (through Office O8 natively [everything but macros] or via Bootcamp/VM running Office 2007), and MACs do offer extreme portability (Macbook Air).

While reputation shouldn't be anyone's sole basis for a PC decision, it helps to know what most other owners are experiencing.

 

That study has been used in a lot of articles, but its not entirely accurate. Its based on consumer computer sold in stores, where the majority of consumer pcs are under $1000 and sold online (only apple has the "apple store"), business laptops and online sales aren't counted. The study was tailored for apple. OS X market share is currently estimated to be 5%, so according to that study, 0.5% of computers are pcs over $1000, or less than 0.006% of pcs sold are over than $1000. Even if only 10% of pcs are over $1000, that its still a 9%:5% split, apple with only 35% share of the "luxury market".

I know it doesn't really matter, but lets not go overboard and say 90% of people should buy a certain brand, Apple computers are unique and appeal to a lot of people, but that's not to say you should look elsewhere. Consider all options, $1000-$2000 is a significant investment, not worth it if a $500 investment would suit your needs just as well.

 

I would definitely not advocate that 90% of people should buy Macs. Mac's are around an 8% market share right now and do not meet the needs of most people (either price, feature set etc). But I think they are a great choice for those who's needs they do meet.